Karma's only real issue is that her power spikes come at weird times. She's got one of the strongest level 1s of any champ and a fantastic late game with some CDR items, but her mid game's a bit weak thanks to the lack of a true ult.
Apart from that she's fucking great and I'll be so sad if she gets nerfed.
Run in with shield, mantra q, activate w on a champion if they didn't take damage from the q.
Autoattack both of them- which is super easy because one or both is slowed, and you're super fast.
Why, hello 32 gold. I love you, frostfang.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
Seriously. Bot lane is blood sport, plain and simple. It's all fights all the time down there. If an ADC gets a last hit, the opposing support has made a mistake.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I wish top was that boring when I get to go that lane. It is always a bloodbath for me. Maybe its a silver 2 thing.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
It's down in bot lane
You just kind of look at each other mean and all, and then both of you steal glances all the way downriver
at the lanes that get to have fun
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
Man in the world of Gold 5 people never want to just farm top. Even if it's beneficial to them and I show no aggression. They just come at me all day. I'm like GOOBY PLEASE, I JUST WANNA HIT THESE CREEPS.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
It's down in bot lane
You just kind of look at each other mean and all, and then both of you steal glances all the way downriver
at the lanes that get to have fun
then you go back to last hitting
Bot lane should really just have a starting pistol 3 minutes in that raises a death cage that only goes down when someone dies. Preferably everyone but one person.
It would functionally change very little about the average game.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
Man in the world of Gold 5 people never want to just farm top. Even if it's beneficial to them and I show no aggression. They just come at me all day. I'm like GOOBY PLEASE, I JUST WANNA HIT THESE CREEPS.
But they don't listen.
They never listen.
They do this to me too. Then I'm just like 'fucker I'm forced top and as a result am playing the beef cakiest early game asshole possible, go hit your creeps before I decide to smack you about'
Wukong and Aatrox are pretty good for that I find. I keep meaning to try some Nasus now his visual re-work makes me stare longingly at him every time he's in game.
Albino Bunny on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
It's down in bot lane
You just kind of look at each other mean and all, and then both of you steal glances all the way downriver
at the lanes that get to have fun
then you go back to last hitting
Bot lane should really just have a starting pistol 3 minutes in that raises a death cage that only goes down when someone dies. Preferably everyone but one person.
It would functionally change very little about the average game.
It's always interesting to hear peoples opinions on what they consider the pros and cons of certain roles. Like I would never call support boring just cause I don't have to last hit. Its a all out brawl down there constantly.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
Man in the world of Gold 5 people never want to just farm top. Even if it's beneficial to them and I show no aggression. They just come at me all day. I'm like GOOBY PLEASE, I JUST WANNA HIT THESE CREEPS.
But they don't listen.
They never listen.
They do this to me too. Then I'm just like 'fucker I'm forced top and as a result am playing the beef cakiest early game asshole possible, go hit your creeps before I decide to smack you about'
Wukong and Aatrox are pretty good for that I find. I keep meaning to try some Nasus now his visual re-work makes me stare longingly at him every time he's in game.
And once they start you need to trade back because you can't just give up free damage and then top lane becomes an endless slap fest.
Using CC/zoning/pressure to prevent an enemy from reaching or damaging a friendly target.
It can be counterintuitive to peel. Like if you're Leona, maybe your first instinct is to catapult yourself into the enemy team and explode your shield on them. Sometimes that's fine, but sometimes you should hang out with your ADC (or squishy mage, whoever you like more), wait to see who is trying to kill them, and stop that from happening.
Good peel will absolutely win games. Like one team will be raging "Focus Caitlyn! She's doing all the damage!", but Caitlyn can't actually be focused down, because she has a devoted bodyguard peeling for her.
To elaborate on this point - If your marksman is 6/1 and has IE/PD and the enemy marksman is 0/4 with a cutlass, you peel for your carry. If it's the other way around, you dive the enemy marksman. This will change as the game progresses, and I have lost many games where my team refuses to peel for me and would rather dive the 1/5 Vayne instead of keeping the 7/3 Draven alive. Those are the saddest games, especially when your team is all "Wait, how did Draven die?" when 3 of them dove for the weak marksman on the other team.
Watching any stream of decent ranked people, top lane is pretty much a pure skill matchup 80% of the time wherein they are constantly trading harrass to try to force the other out of lane or get a kill so they can go back. Because going back first means you lose out on a lot.
Top is one of the hardest exactly because its an island. If you get behind you will almost never get help. Some of the most snowbally champions go top so getting just a little behind means you may as well afk at tower and hope you don't get dove repeatedly til you're 0/10.
I have no idea why people want top.
Support is okay because as long as your ADC is not woefully incompetent you can say fuck it and go do something else. Play Annie or Elise and wander into their jungle and murder their jungler. Support these days feels more about being around to stop dives and push lanes before wandering off to go murder someone somewhere else. Like a jungler who doesn't need to worry about camps.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Watching any stream of decent ranked people, top lane is pretty much a pure skill matchup 80% of the time wherein they are constantly trading harrass to try to force the other out of lane or get a kill so they can go back. Because going back first means you lose out on a lot.
Top is one of the hardest exactly because its an island. If you get behind you will almost never get help. Some of the most snowbally champions go top so getting just a little behind means you may as well afk at tower and hope you don't get dove repeatedly til you're 0/10.
I have no idea why people want top.
Support is okay because as long as your ADC is not woefully incompetent you can say fuck it and go do something else. Play Annie or Elise and wander into their jungle and murder their jungler. Support these days feels more about being around to stop dives and push lanes before wandering off to go murder someone somewhere else. Like a jungler who doesn't need to worry about camps.
For the exact reasons you stated. You know how people like to say things like "1v1 me at baron noob" They like the feeling of trying to just outplay another person.
Support is always fine because they're formal job description is to make the enemy team cry. Not to make their team win, to make sure the enemy can't.
Top is just... eh I'm glad it's so popular because I never really 'get' it. I wont lose most of the time I'm up there or if I do I'm someone like Rengar where it doesn't matter because fourty minutes in you effectively don't get to have a carry any more but god it's just so dull.
All the other roles feel so much more dynamic and interesting. Maybe if I was super confident I could take teleport top but I don't think I'm that good and even then TPing down'll just cost me my tower.
I think I 'get' top when I play champs I am good at vs someone who is good at theirs. It is pretty nice to just outplay someone and know you've won the matchup. Or being able to do the maximum disrespect and walk away while the final tick of ignite kills them, like a boss.
9 times out of 10 though picking someone I enjoy to go top would be more of a benefit to just take jungler.
Except when I feel like playing Renekton, because he's stupid and wtfever I'm an alligator.
Speaking of people who play support because they're forced to, I played a game as Olaf jungle last night. Started off the game horribly. Got 2 assists but no kills and had died 3 times relatively early on. I was just playing awful and I wasn't sure how I was going to dig myself out. I go back to farming, and my Taric says "Olaf, just heads up this Nid isn't buying wards and they're pushed up non stop if you don't mind coming down." I should've been paying more attention to bot lane, but I had focused on top early and started going on tilt after my couple of bad plays.
Anyway, I just kept going bot lane and we got free kills every time and the Nid still wouldn't ward and we got free dragons, and then she went into full rage mode after we killed her 4 times in like 6 minutes and later went afk. Anyway, went from 0/3/2 to like 7/5/15 when we won the game, heh.
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
Some support nids will always assume their traps are good enough to replace warding
That's because they're dumb. Traps in brushes don't give vision nearly fast enough to stop you from dying to a gank, and never will. This isn't limited to Nidalees. Now that s4 is here, tons of supports are doing doran's shield starts and shit like that. It's fine in diamond where they understand they can't push the lane and go agro without wards, but at the level I play at, if you're a support who doesn't ward just because you can't wait to buy fucking doran's rings or whatever and you go ham and push the lane i'm just going to camp you for free kills.
I wish top was that boring when I get to go that lane. It is always a bloodbath for me. Maybe its a silver 2 thing.
Unless you're playing like Shen vs Nasus top has always been a murderfest in my mind. The top lane meta is characterized by incredibly one sided trading matchups (Renekton/Wukong/Jax come to mind) and easy ganks with snowbally build paths (brutalizer sunfire cape!). I don't think I know any top laners who really buy into the boring island thing.
Darien the top laner for Gambit Gaming has a running joke that he is high and does rapper styled poses all the time. So much so that people have made videos about it. Anyways this is alex ich making fun of that. Alex also played the entire song on loop for like 30 min while his wife and him just laughed as he just dunked on people as kha'zix
I wish top was that boring when I get to go that lane. It is always a bloodbath for me. Maybe its a silver 2 thing.
Unless you're playing like Shen vs Nasus top has always been a murderfest in my mind. The top lane meta is characterized by incredibly one sided trading matchups (Renekton/Wukong/Jax come to mind) and easy ganks with snowbally build paths (brutalizer sunfire cape!). I don't think I know any top laners who really buy into the boring island thing.
Which probably explains why they are top laners . As I said, its all just peoples personal preferences and opinions. I'm just waiting to hear from the person who hates Mid. Cause damn do people fight over mid like it's full of chocolate and blow jobs.
I think the thing with mid is that there's a bunch of reasonably safe and super fun to play characters there like Lux.
So it's kinda hard to dislike mid extremely because you can play pretty much whoever you want and if you don't like the lane at all you can play someone who basically ignores it via AOE farming.
During season 2 we had a Dominion game where bottom lane was a match between full fortress Udyr and Nunu.
It was a really exciting back and forth rumble through the jungle top for 30 minutes; a genuinely rare, long Dominion match.
During that time neither side even so much as pretended they wanted to gank bottom because fuck that is full fortress Udyr and Nunu. They were bored to tears and spent the majority of the match having /D battles between waves.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I love top. However I hate/don't get jungleing. I've read many different guides on jungling and I am still terrible at it. Its not uncommon for me to die to the first jungle camp. Even though I started with exactly the items/potions multiple guides suggest. From there I just can't even compare in cs to anyone and my ganks become awful.
Although I usually play 3v3s and that might have something to do with it. But I am talking about 5s just to be clear.
Add me to the list of people eagerly awaiting Lucian's nerf. Guy is just auto win botlane, it's completely ridiculous.
I'm not sure to what extent "auto win" is a thing or even matters. Right now Lucian is only in the top 10 for win rate in Bronze (52%) and Silver (54%). Doesn't even appear in the list for Gold, Plat, or Diamond, and falls behind Sivir across the board. Apparently he is making laning pretty painful for a lot of people, but it doesn't seem to be translating into an insurmountable advantage reflected in the win rate.
Add me to the list of people eagerly awaiting Lucian's nerf. Guy is just auto win botlane, it's completely ridiculous.
I'm not sure to what extent "auto win" is a thing or even matters. Right now Lucian is only in the top 10 for win rate in Bronze (52%) and Silver (54%). Doesn't even appear in the list for Gold, Plat, or Diamond, and falls behind Sivir across the board. Apparently he is making laning pretty painful for a lot of people, but it doesn't seem to be translating into an insurmountable advantage reflected in the win rate.
Nobody can trade with Lucian and win, except Draven because his Q is also a ridiculous amount of extra damage. Lucian has two easy to land harass spells and then his autos do 150% damage. If Lucian and his support force trades, they win.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I love top. However I hate/don't get jungleing. I've read many different guides on jungling and I am still terrible at it. Its not uncommon for me to die to the first jungle camp. Even though I started with exactly the items/potions multiple guides suggest. From there I just can't even compare in cs to anyone and my ganks become awful.
Although I usually play 3v3s and that might have something to do with it. But I am talking about 5s just to be clear.
I don't know if you're actually looking for input or suggestions, but to learn the more advanced things about jungling like anticipating where the enemy jungler is and really understanding when to gank a lane, when to camp a certain lane, leveraging the fact that you blew a flash and you're on a jungler who can almost auto get a gank with enemy flash down, etc. just takes a lot of practice.
However, to just not die to your jungle and farm and just be an average jungler who just farms and does whatever, that's easy. Assuming you're not playing a super duper low base stats champion, you should never ever have a problem killing your jungle without dying. Run some defensive masteries, especially the one that lowers the dmg you take from jungle monsters, but if you're uncomfortable, just go 21 deep in defense no matter who you are playing. It makes a difference. As long as you have armor yellows and use smite, you don't even need a leash for your first buff.
Add me to the list of people eagerly awaiting Lucian's nerf. Guy is just auto win botlane, it's completely ridiculous.
I'm not sure to what extent "auto win" is a thing or even matters. Right now Lucian is only in the top 10 for win rate in Bronze (52%) and Silver (54%). Doesn't even appear in the list for Gold, Plat, or Diamond, and falls behind Sivir across the board. Apparently he is making laning pretty painful for a lot of people, but it doesn't seem to be translating into an insurmountable advantage reflected in the win rate.
Even though he's very popular, Lucian's also got a very high skillcap which means most players (still) aren't using him to his full potential. I'd argue that Sivir's kit is quite a bit easier to work with.
A Lucian played really well is an absolute fucking monster. Extremely safe, incredibly high AOE and single-target burst, almost impossible to run away from. There's very little response to him.
Posts
Run in with shield, mantra q, activate w on a champion if they didn't take damage from the q.
Autoattack both of them- which is super easy because one or both is slowed, and you're super fast.
Why, hello 32 gold. I love you, frostfang.
To me the most boring is Top. Its like an island up there. There's nothing like Dragon that you worry about. It's just you and the other guy. And if you're two bruisers then you pretty much ignore each other and farm unless the jungle comes up.
Seriously. Bot lane is blood sport, plain and simple. It's all fights all the time down there. If an ADC gets a last hit, the opposing support has made a mistake.
I always get so confused top.
I mean, you just farm and stuff while occassionally trading to show off whose bigger and scarier?
Where's the bit where we constantly smash into eachother until someone dies?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It's down in bot lane
You just kind of look at each other mean and all, and then both of you steal glances all the way downriver
at the lanes that get to have fun
then you go back to last hitting
Man in the world of Gold 5 people never want to just farm top. Even if it's beneficial to them and I show no aggression. They just come at me all day. I'm like GOOBY PLEASE, I JUST WANNA HIT THESE CREEPS.
But they don't listen.
They never listen.
Bot lane should really just have a starting pistol 3 minutes in that raises a death cage that only goes down when someone dies. Preferably everyone but one person.
It would functionally change very little about the average game.
EDIT:
They do this to me too. Then I'm just like 'fucker I'm forced top and as a result am playing the beef cakiest early game asshole possible, go hit your creeps before I decide to smack you about'
Wukong and Aatrox are pretty good for that I find. I keep meaning to try some Nasus now his visual re-work makes me stare longingly at him every time he's in game.
And once they start you need to trade back because you can't just give up free damage and then top lane becomes an endless slap fest.
To elaborate on this point - If your marksman is 6/1 and has IE/PD and the enemy marksman is 0/4 with a cutlass, you peel for your carry. If it's the other way around, you dive the enemy marksman. This will change as the game progresses, and I have lost many games where my team refuses to peel for me and would rather dive the 1/5 Vayne instead of keeping the 7/3 Draven alive. Those are the saddest games, especially when your team is all "Wait, how did Draven die?" when 3 of them dove for the weak marksman on the other team.
Top is one of the hardest exactly because its an island. If you get behind you will almost never get help. Some of the most snowbally champions go top so getting just a little behind means you may as well afk at tower and hope you don't get dove repeatedly til you're 0/10.
I have no idea why people want top.
Support is okay because as long as your ADC is not woefully incompetent you can say fuck it and go do something else. Play Annie or Elise and wander into their jungle and murder their jungler. Support these days feels more about being around to stop dives and push lanes before wandering off to go murder someone somewhere else. Like a jungler who doesn't need to worry about camps.
For the exact reasons you stated. You know how people like to say things like "1v1 me at baron noob" They like the feeling of trying to just outplay another person.
Top is just... eh I'm glad it's so popular because I never really 'get' it. I wont lose most of the time I'm up there or if I do I'm someone like Rengar where it doesn't matter because fourty minutes in you effectively don't get to have a carry any more but god it's just so dull.
All the other roles feel so much more dynamic and interesting. Maybe if I was super confident I could take teleport top but I don't think I'm that good and even then TPing down'll just cost me my tower.
9 times out of 10 though picking someone I enjoy to go top would be more of a benefit to just take jungler.
Except when I feel like playing Renekton, because he's stupid and wtfever I'm an alligator.
Anyway, I just kept going bot lane and we got free kills every time and the Nid still wouldn't ward and we got free dragons, and then she went into full rage mode after we killed her 4 times in like 6 minutes and later went afk. Anyway, went from 0/3/2 to like 7/5/15 when we won the game, heh.
Inc gambit Edward Nid support who lands 99% of his spears. everyone copies and lands like 30%
Unless you're playing like Shen vs Nasus top has always been a murderfest in my mind. The top lane meta is characterized by incredibly one sided trading matchups (Renekton/Wukong/Jax come to mind) and easy ganks with snowbally build paths (brutalizer sunfire cape!). I don't think I know any top laners who really buy into the boring island thing.
For those that don't get it:
It's literally a slapfest.
Which probably explains why they are top laners
So it's kinda hard to dislike mid extremely because you can play pretty much whoever you want and if you don't like the lane at all you can play someone who basically ignores it via AOE farming.
It was a really exciting back and forth rumble through the jungle top for 30 minutes; a genuinely rare, long Dominion match.
During that time neither side even so much as pretended they wanted to gank bottom because fuck that is full fortress Udyr and Nunu. They were bored to tears and spent the majority of the match having /D battles between waves.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I was wondering about that when he put Nidalee on the same tier of support as Zyra, Nami, and Soraka and whether that said more about them or Nidalee.
Although I usually play 3v3s and that might have something to do with it. But I am talking about 5s just to be clear.
I'm not sure to what extent "auto win" is a thing or even matters. Right now Lucian is only in the top 10 for win rate in Bronze (52%) and Silver (54%). Doesn't even appear in the list for Gold, Plat, or Diamond, and falls behind Sivir across the board. Apparently he is making laning pretty painful for a lot of people, but it doesn't seem to be translating into an insurmountable advantage reflected in the win rate.
Draven also beats Sivir and Jinx, which means that Draven beats the top 3 carries without being a top carry himself. Not sure how that works.
Nobody can trade with Lucian and win, except Draven because his Q is also a ridiculous amount of extra damage. Lucian has two easy to land harass spells and then his autos do 150% damage. If Lucian and his support force trades, they win.
It was literally the most painful lane I have ever played.
I don't know if you're actually looking for input or suggestions, but to learn the more advanced things about jungling like anticipating where the enemy jungler is and really understanding when to gank a lane, when to camp a certain lane, leveraging the fact that you blew a flash and you're on a jungler who can almost auto get a gank with enemy flash down, etc. just takes a lot of practice.
However, to just not die to your jungle and farm and just be an average jungler who just farms and does whatever, that's easy. Assuming you're not playing a super duper low base stats champion, you should never ever have a problem killing your jungle without dying. Run some defensive masteries, especially the one that lowers the dmg you take from jungle monsters, but if you're uncomfortable, just go 21 deep in defense no matter who you are playing. It makes a difference. As long as you have armor yellows and use smite, you don't even need a leash for your first buff.
I wouldn't want to try that even if I was smurfing at particle-wood 5 league.
It's already happened
Even though he's very popular, Lucian's also got a very high skillcap which means most players (still) aren't using him to his full potential. I'd argue that Sivir's kit is quite a bit easier to work with.
A Lucian played really well is an absolute fucking monster. Extremely safe, incredibly high AOE and single-target burst, almost impossible to run away from. There's very little response to him.
God damn it Riot what am I going to have to do to get this.