I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
GM: The god of chance summons his hellspawn and charges you
Player: I focus on disbelieving the illusion
GM: What? Ok fine, roll
**Rolls a natural 20**
**Player fist pumps**
Player: Haha! Critical success!
GM: You take the charge head on and get ripped to shreds. Let's roll a new character... again.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
I don't actually see a huge problem with that in the Planescape setting. There are so many divine conflicts in the multiverse, good against evil, chaos against law, necromancers against death gods, that I doubt someone going "fuck it, I'm just going to stay out of it" would raise that many eyebrows.
Terry Pratchett has some awesome bits about atheists in a clearly god-filled world in his books, by the by.
Man, if there is any D&D setting where being an atheist remotely makes sense it's Planescape. Belief shapes reality and all of that jazz. There are canon examples of people convincing themselves and then others of things that are patently not true in order to make them true.
Grey Paladin on
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
There's a canon faction that holds exactly that position, but calling it atheism is a bit of a stretch.
Grey Paladin on
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
There's a canon faction that holds exactly that position, but calling it atheism is a bit of a stretch.
I would agree. In a world with real tangible gods there would be a very real definition of what a god is and very real physical evidence of their existence throughout the world.
I guess you could try re-defining what a "god" is so that the gods in the world no longer meet the criteria and then claim to be an atheist, but the only reason to do so is if there were some religion that worshipped some super-god... and the real gods might not like that so much.
I think it's very much a definition thing. One idea of a god is someone that is so powerful they have control over creation itself, all knowing, can end you with a thought. When a "god" can be fought by the PCs and they aren't just destroyed instantly, some might question if that is really a god. So, an atheist in that kind of a world may not be denying the existence of really powerful beings so much as denying the existence of a being that can just end everything with a blink.
It's the whole ant vs. human thing. Would we be gods to ants? If not, then why would a being the PCs can fight (and at later levels, defeat) be considered a god?
Well, I'm pretty sure that the belief and will of gods is a lot more powerful than mortals so gods can defeat atheists by believing that atheism doesn't exist.
Well, I'm pretty sure that the belief and will of gods is a lot more powerful than mortals so gods can defeat atheists by believing that atheism doesn't exist.
That would be Interfering With Free Will and Gods just don't do that sort of thing.
It wouldn't be interfering if you change the nature of the universe so that something is impossible. For example, a person with no eyes can't choose to see. So if the gods just made it so that atheism doesn't exist, they're not really interfering in free will since you can't choose to do something that can't be done.
The difference between gods in DnD and gods in "reality" (I use quotation marks cause, real gods) is that the intangible and omnipotent nature of gods makes them beyond comprehension in the "real world". The issue in DnD isn't that gods aren't real, but that they are not omnipotent. They can be defied, challenged and killed. But! That doesn't mean they don't exist and cannot directly emplace hardships and blessings upon an atheist in that setting.
Unless an atheist can gain the power to become a god, they will be eternally punished on the Wall (in DnD, I have no idea what happens as eternal punishment in PE).
The problem with the ant analogy is that while ants can challenge and kill humans, we have no agency over the soul of ants (assuming souls -and ant souls- actually exist in reality), while a DnD god can directly interact with such a thing.
An atheist in DnD can still be an athiest and not believe in gods, but that doesn't make them not real and cannot enact punishment and blessings upon mortals.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Didn't the Wall got destroyed by Asmodeus after the Blood War ended in the transition to the 4th Edition of D&D? Or something like that?
Regarding atheism in D&D I remember the lore of an axe in Icewind Dale. Just found it:
Faith Killer
This deceptively mundane looking battle axe has a short but strange history. According to philosophers of magic, Faith Killer was enchanted by the non-belief of its owner, the warrior Eri on the Skeptic. A rarity in Faerun, Erion was a man who denied the existence of holy magic and the gods themselves. He was known for his attempts to prove that priests were charlatans and holy magic was, in actuality, a different form of standard magic. Sages believe that Erion's intense opposition to holy men and women actually generated sympathetic magical powers in his weapon. Priests of Selune in Westgate confiscated the axe when they killed Erion in self-defense. It is currently believed that Er ion is one of the unbelievers used as a building block in Myrkul's Bone Castle.
I'm pretty sure there was another item about disbelief in the game.
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Didn't the Wall got destroyed by Asmodeus after the Blood War ended in the transition to the 4th Edition of D&D? Or something like that?
Regarding atheism in D&D I remember the lore of an axe in Icewind Dale. Just found it:
Faith Killer
This deceptively mundane looking battle axe has a short but strange history. According to philosophers of magic, Faith Killer was enchanted by the non-belief of its owner, the warrior Eri on the Skeptic. A rarity in Faerun, Erion was a man who denied the existence of holy magic and the gods themselves. He was known for his attempts to prove that priests were charlatans and holy magic was, in actuality, a different form of standard magic. Sages believe that Erion's intense opposition to holy men and women actually generated sympathetic magical powers in his weapon. Priests of Selune in Westgate confiscated the axe when they killed Erion in self-defense. It is currently believed that Er ion is one of the unbelievers used as a building block in Myrkul's Bone Castle.
I'm pretty sure there was another item about disbelief in the game.
All I know about the Wall is that it was part of Forgotten Realms, other settings had their own fates/punishments for disbelievers (or not, in the case of Eberron and Dark Sun) No clue if they destroyed it in 4E, but considering all the talk of "fixing" the setting for D&D Next, I'm pretty sure it's coming back as if it was never gone.
Fun thing about that weapon, before 3rd ed. when they retconned it that all divine magic in FR had to come from gods, you could have divine power via the worship of ideals instead of deities (kinda like how PoE's Paladins will work)... so odds are his intense "worship" in denying the existence of gods created a divinely-powered weapon.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
The best part about the Planescape universe is if you can make it a lasting movement and a big one, you can erase gods and the Wall and the whole system. Now they might/probably/totallywill fight back long before that happens, but you gave it the ol' college try.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
I don't actually see a huge problem with that in the Planescape setting. There are so many divine conflicts in the multiverse, good against evil, chaos against law, necromancers against death gods, that I doubt someone going "fuck it, I'm just going to stay out of it" would raise that many eyebrows.
Terry Pratchett has some awesome bits about atheists in a clearly god-filled world in his books, by the by.
And then you look out your window, see the Lady of Pain float by, and go back to disbelievin', eh?
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
I don't actually see a huge problem with that in the Planescape setting. There are so many divine conflicts in the multiverse, good against evil, chaos against law, necromancers against death gods, that I doubt someone going "fuck it, I'm just going to stay out of it" would raise that many eyebrows.
Terry Pratchett has some awesome bits about atheists in a clearly god-filled world in his books, by the by.
And then you look out your window, see the Lady of Pain float by, and go back to disbelievin', eh?
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
The best part about the Planescape universe is if you can make it a lasting movement and a big one, you can erase gods and the Wall and the whole system. Now they might/probably/totallywill fight back long before that happens, but you gave it the ol' college try.
Assuming the god/whatever doesn't just believe in it's own existence, is not believing enough? I mean, if Bob doesn't know about Joe, then will Joe cease to exist because Bob doesn't know (or believe) he exists? In order to start a movement to erase the gods from existence has to acknowledge they exist in order to do so. How can you plot against something you don't know exists without first knowing they exist?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
The best part about the Planescape universe is if you can make it a lasting movement and a big one, you can erase gods and the Wall and the whole system. Now they might/probably/totallywill fight back long before that happens, but you gave it the ol' college try.
Assuming the god/whatever doesn't just believe in it's own existence, is not believing enough? I mean, if Bob doesn't know about Joe, then will Joe cease to exist because Bob doesn't know (or believe) he exists? In order to start a movement to erase the gods from existence has to acknowledge they exist in order to do so. How can you plot against something you don't know exists without first knowing they exist?
This is part of why such a movement will never go anywhere, yes. Systemic inertia.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
If you believe the "gods" are just other beings with better technology/magic, like the Norse gods in the Marvels universe, and believe they are subject to the same mechanistic rules of the universe as everyone else, then I see no reason you could not comfortably call yourself an atheist. Pharaohs were considered by some as the living embodiment of a god on earth, imbued with certain supernatural powers. If a person were to say he doesn't believe in the gods and the Pharaoh is just some guy with fancy clothes and an accurate calendar, you can't say that person isn't an atheist just because the dude in the fancy clothes who calls himself a god is standing in front of him.
But there's still the divinity aspect. A powerful magical/technologically advanced person like Thor is still just a dude. He has no control over you past death. In a place where the soul exists and lasts forever, beings capable of controlling and directing those souls on a higher plane of existence are far more powerful than than those that can't.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I expect there to be a Energizer Battery++ company run by a not so nice "God"/God you will have to take on. So we can ask him all these deep questions.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
I don't actually see a huge problem with that in the Planescape setting. There are so many divine conflicts in the multiverse, good against evil, chaos against law, necromancers against death gods, that I doubt someone going "fuck it, I'm just going to stay out of it" would raise that many eyebrows.
Terry Pratchett has some awesome bits about atheists in a clearly god-filled world in his books, by the by.
And then you look out your window, see the Lady of Pain float by, and go back to disbelievin', eh?
Well better than believing she's a god.
What I mean is: It seems silly to be an atheist in a world where something like the Lady of Pain is floating around. I think "fuck yes there is a god/are gods" is a pretty safe bet in a world like that.
I had a friend who demanded to play an atheist in a fucking Planescape campaign some years back. The DM just laughed at her.
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Actually playing an atheist isn't that irrational in that format. The atheist might just believe that the gods are just other beings who happen to have a great deal of power compared to a human. Ants are much smaller and weaker than a human but that doesn't mean humans are gods. They could maintain "gods" are like everyone else and get their power from a strictly mechanistic universe as opposed to metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
The best part about the Planescape universe is if you can make it a lasting movement and a big one, you can erase gods and the Wall and the whole system. Now they might/probably/totallywill fight back long before that happens, but you gave it the ol' college try.
Assuming the god/whatever doesn't just believe in it's own existence, is not believing enough? I mean, if Bob doesn't know about Joe, then will Joe cease to exist because Bob doesn't know (or believe) he exists? In order to start a movement to erase the gods from existence has to acknowledge they exist in order to do so. How can you plot against something you don't know exists without first knowing they exist?
We've always been at war with Eastasia
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
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"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Credit where credit is due: That's a pretty fantastic role-playing challenge. Like playing a dedicated gravity-denier.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
GM: The god of chance summons his hellspawn and charges you
Player: I focus on disbelieving the illusion
GM: What? Ok fine, roll
**Rolls a natural 20**
**Player fist pumps**
Player: Haha! Critical success!
GM: You take the charge head on and get ripped to shreds. Let's roll a new character... again.
I don't actually see a huge problem with that in the Planescape setting. There are so many divine conflicts in the multiverse, good against evil, chaos against law, necromancers against death gods, that I doubt someone going "fuck it, I'm just going to stay out of it" would raise that many eyebrows.
Terry Pratchett has some awesome bits about atheists in a clearly god-filled world in his books, by the by.
I would agree. In a world with real tangible gods there would be a very real definition of what a god is and very real physical evidence of their existence throughout the world.
I guess you could try re-defining what a "god" is so that the gods in the world no longer meet the criteria and then claim to be an atheist, but the only reason to do so is if there were some religion that worshipped some super-god... and the real gods might not like that so much.
It's the whole ant vs. human thing. Would we be gods to ants? If not, then why would a being the PCs can fight (and at later levels, defeat) be considered a god?
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
That would be Interfering With Free Will and Gods just don't do that sort of thing.
Because then you wouldn't have a story.
Unless an atheist can gain the power to become a god, they will be eternally punished on the Wall (in DnD, I have no idea what happens as eternal punishment in PE).
The problem with the ant analogy is that while ants can challenge and kill humans, we have no agency over the soul of ants (assuming souls -and ant souls- actually exist in reality), while a DnD god can directly interact with such a thing.
An atheist in DnD can still be an athiest and not believe in gods, but that doesn't make them not real and cannot enact punishment and blessings upon mortals.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Regarding atheism in D&D I remember the lore of an axe in Icewind Dale. Just found it:
I'm pretty sure there was another item about disbelief in the game.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
All I know about the Wall is that it was part of Forgotten Realms, other settings had their own fates/punishments for disbelievers (or not, in the case of Eberron and Dark Sun) No clue if they destroyed it in 4E, but considering all the talk of "fixing" the setting for D&D Next, I'm pretty sure it's coming back as if it was never gone.
Fun thing about that weapon, before 3rd ed. when they retconned it that all divine magic in FR had to come from gods, you could have divine power via the worship of ideals instead of deities (kinda like how PoE's Paladins will work)... so odds are his intense "worship" in denying the existence of gods created a divinely-powered weapon.
I wonder if they could make something in the vein of Master of Magic using the PoE setting.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Huh, that made me think of Dwarf Fortress rather than MoM.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Makes me think of Ultima IV.
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Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Good. I hate early access
On the upside, Obsidian won't have to deal with people on the steam forums complaining that it's $60 like InXile has to.
Yeah that is definitely Ultima. Ultima V to me.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
By definition, that is not what an atheist is. Believing the Gods aren't worthy of worship is valid, but that's not being an atheist. Being an atheist in Planescape/D&D in general is simply being objectively wrong, no two ways about it.
I mean that's fine, characters are allowed to have flaws, the important thing is to not become so enamored of the character that you forget that they are straight up wrong.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The best part about the Planescape universe is if you can make it a lasting movement and a big one, you can erase gods and the Wall and the whole system. Now they might/probably/totallywill fight back long before that happens, but you gave it the ol' college try.
And then you look out your window, see the Lady of Pain float by, and go back to disbelievin', eh?
And the irony is that Ao is the only god who doesn't listen to prayers and actually goes out of his way to erase evidence of his existence.
Well better than believing she's a god.
Assuming the god/whatever doesn't just believe in it's own existence, is not believing enough? I mean, if Bob doesn't know about Joe, then will Joe cease to exist because Bob doesn't know (or believe) he exists? In order to start a movement to erase the gods from existence has to acknowledge they exist in order to do so. How can you plot against something you don't know exists without first knowing they exist?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
This is part of why such a movement will never go anywhere, yes. Systemic inertia.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
What I mean is: It seems silly to be an atheist in a world where something like the Lady of Pain is floating around. I think "fuck yes there is a god/are gods" is a pretty safe bet in a world like that.