That is superboy stuff is just like Neil Gaiman claiming that he is owed royalty for the characters he brought into the Spawn series. As far as I am concerned, the original author owns the entire universe that he creates and any subsequent characters added by other authors to that universe.
Well, given the Siegel and Shuster created Superman, who is largely recognized as the first hero, and thus ushered in the creation of the entire DC Universe....
Hell, by your standards, the Siegel's are actually owed more money, since it wouldn't be unreasonable to think of Siegel and Shuster as the original authors and thus the 'owners' of the DC universe.
From a legal perspective, though, all original creations are the property of their creators unless they sign a contract stating otherwise. So Neil Gaiman was in the right in the case you mentioned. What I'm getting at here is that your conception of intellectual property rights is both bizarre and contrary to the law.
It wasn't too bad. I liked the brutality of the villains, it lent more weight to just how nasty they were compared to the standard "no one really seems to die" fare in cartoons.
I liked the Lex look. He had more of the mad scientist look that he's had in some of his better stories. Lois I thought looked like Terry's GF from batman beyond... wasn't "bad" but was a lot different than I would have chosen. Supes was overall fine except the already mentioned Diamond cheekbones... the chin being softer might have helped as well.
Those are all just nitpicky tho... I did have some big issues with the story however (aside from it just needed to be longer).
Doomsdays revised origin wasn't too bad, it served the purpose well enough. I could even do without the JL run ins, even if I thought they served as an excellent way to show that this guy meant business. I also liked the slow reveal of the monster beneath the suit in the comic book better than the in your face reveal here.
The overall fight, while brief, was also pretty good. It showed a lot of the brutality that doomsday had. However, the things from the Comics that I felt need not be changed in that fight were:
1) Supes struggling to try and get doomsday out of the town and failing several times to do so.
2) Superman getting busted up badly. Bruises, ripped costume, blood, etc. Then he went all out on Doomsday. That was very VERY briefly touched on in the Movie. The blood scene with Lois's face was good however.
3) The ending of the fight in the comics was MUCH more emotional and very iconic. They had the cape on the rebar scene, but they didn't have the window smashing punching in front of the daily planet. Supes staggered out but it lacked the "punch" of the comic panel (pun untended).
I agree this would have made a better 2 part or trilogy, as it was simply too condensed. The Doomsday part of the movie was trivialized, in fact the clone superman was just as big of a fight, and seemed more sinister. There was no real impact to his "death" There was barely any mourning period. There was no intense reflection or sense of loss in the movie at all. Likewise there wasn't any sense of mystery. You had one clone who everyone accepted was Supes alive and well again. There wasn't a mystery surrounding his "rebirth" like the comics had.
Not that you needed all of the different Supermen, but at least 2-3 of them would have worked out quite well. Steel, Crenshaw, and the clone for instance (this could have been the eradicator reborn via Luthor if they wanted to keep him as part of it).
Anyways... it was enjoyable, more than I'd expect of many direct to DVD comic movies, but as usual with a detailed and interesting story (Complaints about Doomsday aside) there was a lot of untapped potential.
That is superboy stuff is just like Neil Gaiman claiming that he is owed royalty for the characters he brought into the Spawn series. As far as I am concerned, the original author owns the entire universe that he creates and any subsequent characters added by other authors to that universe.
Well, given the Siegel and Shuster created Superman, who is largely recognized as the first hero, and thus ushered in the creation of the entire DC Universe....
Hell, by your standards, the Siegel's are actually owed more money, since it wouldn't be unreasonable to think of Siegel and Shuster as the original authors and thus the 'owners' of the DC universe.
From a legal perspective, though, all original creations are the property of their creators unless they sign a contract stating otherwise. So Neil Gaiman was in the right in the case you mentioned. What I'm getting at here is that your conception of intellectual property rights is both bizarre and contrary to the law.
Yeah, the way I said it was pretty wonky. What I mean is thaty I think it is pretty strange that Superboy as a character has to be erased from a universe that he is an integral part of.
I suppose that the IP law does contradict what I said, it is just that emotionally as a fan it sucks to see a big character written out due to something like this.
But that's just because I loved Drawn Together, so all I could think about was Foxxy Love.
I hate Cree Summer as a voice actor. Every character, no matter how old, that they put her on, sounds like a child. All I can hear anytime she speaks is Susie off of the Rugrats.
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Yeah, the way I said it was pretty wonky. What I mean is thaty I think it is pretty strange that Superboy as a character has to be erased from a universe that he is an integral part of.
I suppose that the IP law does contradict what I said, it is just that emotionally as a fan it sucks to see a big character written out due to something like this.
I agree, but your beef should be with the company that doesn't want to pay royalties to widows.
The movie was great and I recommend it to any comic fan, but there are some minor problems I had with it.
the final words were different than in the comics. It should have been something like, "Doomsday...is he?" or some variation. While the version they used was similar, it didnt have the same impact as Superman showing the concern for the world, wondering if the monster was defeated. When he dies in the comic, its like once Lois told him it was okay, he could let go. It's a comic fan nerd rage thing, but I had to bring it up.
So, totally different to the part where Lois tells Superman it's okay, and then he lets go?
The movie was great and I recommend it to any comic fan, but there are some minor problems I had with it.
the final words were different than in the comics. It should have been something like, "Doomsday...is he?" or some variation. While the version they used was similar, it didnt have the same impact as Superman showing the concern for the world, wondering if the monster was defeated. When he dies in the comic, its like once Lois told him it was okay, he could let go. It's a comic fan nerd rage thing, but I had to bring it up.
So, totally different to the part where Lois tells Superman it's okay, and then he lets go?
As I said, it was more a comic nerd thing than a complaint. They were very similar, but different enough for me to notice. The cartoon spelled it out more when the comic was more subtle about it. It was still one of the high points of the movie and it's more like a Lord of the Rings fan complaining about things changed for the movie despite how awesome they still turned out.
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited September 2007
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Coast City
and the whole point is that these are standalone movies
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Coast City
and the whole point is that these are standalone movies
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Coast City
and the whole point is that these are standalone movies
So...no overlapping or no sequels?
They were supposed to be iconic stories, but I think the Wonder Woman one is a new story (or is it her origin story?)
Watched this movie, thought it was great, etc. etc.
The only complaints I really have is that the Doomsday fight could've been even more brutal (costume ripping, bruises and such) and the ending to that fight was a little less epic than I would have liked
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Coast City
and the whole point is that these are standalone movies
So...no overlapping or no sequels?
They were supposed to be iconic stories, but I think the Wonder Woman one is a new story (or is it her origin story?)
I think it's a retelling of the Perez / Wolfman origin.
I've been thinking that having no real continuity might give the writers too much freedom. This doesn't apply to New Frontier, which is essentially a one-shot universe anyway, or any origin story. But with Judas Contract, and with this movie, the writers may have had too much freedom to add/remove/ignore/change characters.
Like
that helper robot. That thing just annoyed me. It was nothing more than a big Deus Ex Machina that covered for all the little impossibilities and allowed the story to be told in 70 minutes by threading all these plot points through one all-powerful character.
I've been thinking that having no real continuity might give the writers too much freedom. This doesn't apply to New Frontier, which is essentially a one-shot universe anyway, or any origin story. But with Judas Contract, and with this movie, the writers may have had too much freedom to add/remove/ignore/change characters.
Like
that helper robot. That thing just annoyed me. It was nothing more than a big Deus Ex Machina that covered for all the little impossibilities and allowed the story to be told in 70 minutes by threading all these plot points through one all-powerful character.
God, it's better if they don't have to stick to any continuity.
Comic book universes have been going on for so fucking long that they're huge, convoluted messes that have to get "fixed" every 10 years. I'd rather they be able to simply tell the story and be done with it.
Jordyn on
JordynNolz.com <- All my blogs (Shepard, Wasted, J'onn, DCAU) are here now!
I got a Doomsday issue around the time of the Death of Superman. It came with a Mattel DC Superheroes toy. Now, I like to think I have a pretty okay grasp of DC continuity & history. But in this, Doomsday punches Supergirl and she devolves into some protoplasm mass of jelly. Apparently that's just what was going on at the time.
I'm really glad to hear that this movie cuts the continuity strings out.
As someone who doesn't really have any interest in DC or Superman stuff, Death of Superman is probably the only bit of DC storyline I am really familiar with (thanks to reading the novelisation via my local library rather than the comics).
Overall I was happy with the movie, it wasn't great but definitely enjoyable. I had the same gripes that others seem to such as
the hideous super-face, supes not making any effort to move fights away from densely populated areas, and the extremely S&M scene with Lex and Superclone in the rumpus room, where by the end I was waiting for Lex to go in for the pash.
It has definitely sparked my interest in seeing more DC animated stuff, up until now I've only seen the odd episode of Batman Beyond and skimmed past episodes of Justice League. I will have to see what I can find on DVD.
So Doomsday "dies" along with Superman... then what? I found it kind of irritating that there was no mention of how the body was disposed of or otherwise. You would think Lex would have shown as much interest in that as he did with Supermans body.
Not a deal breaker of course, I just felt like there was no closure I suppose the real reason is that they weren't acknowledging any other superheros in this version, so without Superman or one of his replacements, there was noone to eject Doomsday into space... so they just pretended it didn't exist anymore.
just watched it.
fight choreo was frikken amazing. no kung fu "hiya!!" style, but how 2 combat savvy powerhouses would fight. Also, i think im going to make punching bullets my new hobby.
anne heche did an ample job. sorry i just cant get over dana delany's voice. she completely revitalized the spunkyness that is lois lane. Supes TAS no longer had just a damsel in distress but a strong female lead, only to be horribly set back by the lois lane portrayed by kate bosworth.
anne heche did a good job. but no woman can outclass dana as lois.
if a man could bone a voice, sign me up for the beta tests
Posts
Well, given the Siegel and Shuster created Superman, who is largely recognized as the first hero, and thus ushered in the creation of the entire DC Universe....
Hell, by your standards, the Siegel's are actually owed more money, since it wouldn't be unreasonable to think of Siegel and Shuster as the original authors and thus the 'owners' of the DC universe.
From a legal perspective, though, all original creations are the property of their creators unless they sign a contract stating otherwise. So Neil Gaiman was in the right in the case you mentioned. What I'm getting at here is that your conception of intellectual property rights is both bizarre and contrary to the law.
That line was perfectly delivered.
Other than a few quibbles with the art (supes cheeks, and mercys nose mostly) this movie is made of awesome.
I am a freaking nerd.
I liked the Lex look. He had more of the mad scientist look that he's had in some of his better stories. Lois I thought looked like Terry's GF from batman beyond... wasn't "bad" but was a lot different than I would have chosen. Supes was overall fine except the already mentioned Diamond cheekbones... the chin being softer might have helped as well.
Those are all just nitpicky tho... I did have some big issues with the story however (aside from it just needed to be longer).
The overall fight, while brief, was also pretty good. It showed a lot of the brutality that doomsday had. However, the things from the Comics that I felt need not be changed in that fight were:
1) Supes struggling to try and get doomsday out of the town and failing several times to do so.
2) Superman getting busted up badly. Bruises, ripped costume, blood, etc. Then he went all out on Doomsday. That was very VERY briefly touched on in the Movie. The blood scene with Lois's face was good however.
3) The ending of the fight in the comics was MUCH more emotional and very iconic. They had the cape on the rebar scene, but they didn't have the window smashing punching in front of the daily planet. Supes staggered out but it lacked the "punch" of the comic panel (pun untended).
I agree this would have made a better 2 part or trilogy, as it was simply too condensed. The Doomsday part of the movie was trivialized, in fact the clone superman was just as big of a fight, and seemed more sinister. There was no real impact to his "death" There was barely any mourning period. There was no intense reflection or sense of loss in the movie at all. Likewise there wasn't any sense of mystery. You had one clone who everyone accepted was Supes alive and well again. There wasn't a mystery surrounding his "rebirth" like the comics had.
Not that you needed all of the different Supermen, but at least 2-3 of them would have worked out quite well. Steel, Crenshaw, and the clone for instance (this could have been the eradicator reborn via Luthor if they wanted to keep him as part of it).
Anyways... it was enjoyable, more than I'd expect of many direct to DVD comic movies, but as usual with a detailed and interesting story (Complaints about Doomsday aside) there was a lot of untapped potential.
Link.
Yeah, the way I said it was pretty wonky. What I mean is thaty I think it is pretty strange that Superboy as a character has to be erased from a universe that he is an integral part of.
I suppose that the IP law does contradict what I said, it is just that emotionally as a fan it sucks to see a big character written out due to something like this.
I hate Cree Summer as a voice actor. Every character, no matter how old, that they put her on, sounds like a child. All I can hear anytime she speaks is Susie off of the Rugrats.
I agree, but your beef should be with the company that doesn't want to pay royalties to widows.
As I said, it was more a comic nerd thing than a complaint. They were very similar, but different enough for me to notice. The cartoon spelled it out more when the comic was more subtle about it. It was still one of the high points of the movie and it's more like a Lord of the Rings fan complaining about things changed for the movie despite how awesome they still turned out.
Also there was no cyborg Superman, which is such a shame because I loved cyborg Superman
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Which could have lead into that taking over of emerald city or whatever its called in a sequel.
Coast City
and the whole point is that these are standalone movies
So...no overlapping or no sequels?
No. One and done.
PSN: OrneryRooster
They were supposed to be iconic stories, but I think the Wonder Woman one is a new story (or is it her origin story?)
I think it's a retelling of the Perez / Wolfman origin.
PSN: OrneryRooster
Kevin Smith's cameo was excellent.
Like
Comic book universes have been going on for so fucking long that they're huge, convoluted messes that have to get "fixed" every 10 years. I'd rather they be able to simply tell the story and be done with it.
JordynNolz.com <- All my blogs (Shepard, Wasted, J'onn, DCAU) are here now!
I don't want "To understand why Luthor is bright pink, watch Superman: The Rainbow Raider."
Anne Heche's lois grated on me a bit in the beginning, but I liked her well enough by the end of it.
Smith's cameo with the Giant Spider thing was an awesome callback to an Evening with Kevin Smith.
Why is Superman raiding a rainbow? For the whole story, watch Superman: Hey, that Rainbow needs a good raiding.
Watch Batman: The Rain.
JordynNolz.com <- All my blogs (Shepard, Wasted, J'onn, DCAU) are here now!
I'm really glad to hear that this movie cuts the continuity strings out.
I hope they do better with New Frontier.
I am very sad that New Frontier is stuck being only seventy-some minutes long
It deserves at least ninety minutes, and I'd prefer two hours
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here..
You may be making fun, but I would watch that without a doubt
California.
spectacular
Overall I was happy with the movie, it wasn't great but definitely enjoyable. I had the same gripes that others seem to such as
It has definitely sparked my interest in seeing more DC animated stuff, up until now I've only seen the odd episode of Batman Beyond and skimmed past episodes of Justice League. I will have to see what I can find on DVD.
That was probably my favorite scene.
Not a deal breaker of course, I just felt like there was no closure I suppose the real reason is that they weren't acknowledging any other superheros in this version, so without Superman or one of his replacements, there was noone to eject Doomsday into space... so they just pretended it didn't exist anymore.
you and me both
it'd be the cutest first date
fight choreo was frikken amazing. no kung fu "hiya!!" style, but how 2 combat savvy powerhouses would fight. Also, i think im going to make punching bullets my new hobby.
anne heche did an ample job. sorry i just cant get over dana delany's voice. she completely revitalized the spunkyness that is lois lane. Supes TAS no longer had just a damsel in distress but a strong female lead, only to be horribly set back by the lois lane portrayed by kate bosworth.
anne heche did a good job. but no woman can outclass dana as lois.
if a man could bone a voice, sign me up for the beta tests