ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited June 2014
Roles
Village
Boss
You are the Boss. The Organization has been in your family for generations. To see it infested with rat-faced snitches is a tragedy like no other. You are not going to let the organization fall on your watch. Hopefully the disease hasn’t spread to other family members, because family gets a pass if they make a mistake. But there is only one thing a snitch should ever get and it’s definitely not a pass. You can use one of the following powers each night: Pull a Job – Choose 3 players (cannot self target). They gain one favor AND their Gain Favor passive power produces double favor tonight. Confide – Target one player, they will be told their Favor total tonight. The total is considered to be their total after the vote but before power usage.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Boss's Family (family member with highest favor became the boss when the boss was removed from the game)
You are the Boss’s Daughter/Brother/Uncle. The Organization has been in your family for generations. To see it infested with rat-faced snitches is a tragedy like no other. Hopefully the disease hasn’t spread to other family members, because family gets a pass if they make a mistake. There is only one thing a snitch should ever get and it’s definitely not a pass.
- Gain Favor (Passive): If your final vote of the day is for a snitch, gain 1 Favor.
- Family Matters (Passive): Your favor is not reduced when using the Call in your Favor power.
- Call in your Favor: Reduce your favor by 1. The effect of your power is determined by your total Favor after the current day’s vote.
[Total Favor] Name of power (Abbr): Effect
[1] Suspicion (Roleblock): Target a player and prevent use of all of their powers, including passives.
[2] Tail (Guard): Target a player and prevent one attack against them
[3] Ask Around (Seer): Target a player and learn their alignment and favor total (before any power use tonight).
[4] Hit (Vig): Target a player and remove them from the game
[5] Knowledge is Power (??): ?????.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Lieutenants (regened to vanillager with highest favor, village started with 2, would regen to one once less than half players in the game)
You are a Lieutenant in The Organization. You’ve been a loyal member for as long as you can remember and your hands are as dirty as they get. Your survival depends solely on the survival of the Organization. No way are you gonna let some snitches be your downfall.
- Gain Favor (Passive): If your final vote of the day is for a snitch, gain 1 Favor.
- Leader (Passive) – If you target a snitch with your Call in Your Favor power, your favor is not reduced and instead increased by 2.
- Call in your Favor: Reduce your favor by 1. The effect of your power is determined by your total Favor after the current day’s vote.
[Total Favor] Name of power (Abbr): Effect
[1] Suspicion (Roleblock): Target a player and prevent use of all of their powers, including passives.
[2] Tail (Guard): Target a player and prevent one attack against them
[3] Ask Around (Seer): Target a player and learn their alignment and favor total (before any power use tonight).
[4] Hit (Vig): Target a player and remove them from the game
[5] Knowledge is Power (??): ?????.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Mafia
- You have all of the powers of a vanillager, except for the 5 Favor cost Call in your Favor ability (Knowledge is Power).
- JPants is the Boss’s Son who would love nothing more than to have a normal life and see his horrible family and Organization crumble to nothingness. (Cover PM: The Organization has been in your family for generations. To see it infested with rat-faced snitches is a tragedy like no other. Hopefully the disease hasn’t spread to other family members, because family gets a pass if they make a mistake. There is only one thing a snitch should ever get and it’s definitely not a pass.) He has the following additional power:
Family Matters (Passive): Your favor is not reduced when using the Call in your Favor power.
- Additionally, as a group you have the following powers as granted by the FBI. Each power has a set number of uses initially. To be used, the power has to be assigned to a living snitch. A snitch may only use one FBI Power a night. The FBI will contact you about how to refill the charges on your FBI Powers.
[Charges left/Max Charges] Name of Power – Effect
[12/12]Wire Tap – Choose up to 3 players. Learn their Favor Total after votes, but before power usage. One charge used per player targeted.
[12/12]Stakeout – Choose up to 3 players. If they Called in their Favor you will learn who they targeted. One charge used per player targeted.
[3/3]Detain – Choose one player. Prevent all power use (including passives). They will be notified of their detainment and it will be noted in the narration. One charge used per player targeted.
[2/2]Arrest – Target a player and remove them from the game.
[2/2]Arrest – Target a player and remove them from the game.
Wincon – Outnumber all remaining and former Organization Members
It was really obnoxious I had to bribe people to save myself.
My plan before I was desperately poking everyone who was active late on day one (2/3 of whom I ended up hitting were mafia, wheeeee!) was to give MrT favor for winning TAR, shalmelo favor for being old CK2 buddies, and ahava favor because I'm a fan of ahava.
That would have gone OH SO MUCH BETTER for the village.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So Ebum could actually message Kime after he died? I thought that would have got me voted out at once considering Ebum gave me Ahavas name and then the mafia killed her.
I'm surprised it didn't get you voted out sooner. Ebum told kime that he pretty much knew that you and preda were snitches. It got preda killed, but then for some reason it never came back on you.
It was really obnoxious I had to bribe people to save myself.
My plan before I was desperately poking everyone who was active late on day one (2/3 of whom I ended up hitting were mafia, wheeeee!) was to give MrT favor for winning TAR, shalmelo favor for being old CK2 buddies, and ahava favor because I'm a fan of ahava.
That would have gone OH SO MUCH BETTER for the village.
Yeah, that you had to give 1 Favor to 3 people so you could be saved but were definitely not getting any favor from the vote, instead of guaranteeing a seer result the next day (1 free + double vote gain = 3 or 1 = use power and know if village or not because either Roleblock or Seer) really sucked for the village.
1) kime is probably trustworthy
2) people who knew I was in contact with ahava who were not kime:
Flarne
Preda
One or both of them is probably a snitch.
Second message was me telling him that Preda lied about our conversation or lack thereof on day 2.
Third one was similar to some of the analysis in the thread that made me very much assume jpants was evil. And I repeated that Flarne was probably evil, since kime had died.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So Ebum could actually message Kime after he died? I thought that would have got me voted out at once considering Ebum gave me Ahavas name and then the mafia killed her.
I'm surprised it didn't get you voted out sooner. Ebum told kime that he pretty much knew that you and preda were snitches. It got preda killed, but then for some reason it never came back on you.
Whee.
So not only were our special's powers a liability to the village, but we also couldn't ever have blindsided the mafia with them.
GG Host.
Hardly a liability when the main special (which regenerated) could create more seers in a game than probably any other phalla ever. The other specials could get two seer results every other day. And every vanillager could get a seer result after 4 days.
So one downside to all that seering? The mafia knew when people were powering up to it.
The mafia's defense to that? Either publicly roleblock them (making the vote record work for the village) or kill them (making the vote record work for the village).
The other downside to all that seering? You may create some SKs. Not that big of a deal considering it would have been pretty obvious when a black kill starts showing up around the same time as the first player hits 5 favor. Dots connected.
Whee.
So not only were our special's powers a liability to the village, but we also couldn't ever have blindsided the mafia with them.
GG Host.
Hardly a liability when the main special (which regenerated) could create more seers in a game than probably any other phalla ever. The other specials could get two seer results every other day. And every vanillager could get a seer result after 4 days.
So your one downside to all that seering? The mafia knew when people were powering up to it.
The mafia's defense to that? Either publicly roleblock them (making the vote record work for the village) or kill them (making the vote record work for the village).
Wrong.
Other downsides:
- Anyone not in the network has no clue what their Favor is and cannot act with any certainty whatsoever. Since you had to target three players, the chances of having to target someone outside the network, at least to start, is likely, if not expected.
- Those within the network turn into SKs when they reach 5 Favor. Seeing as the network primarily consists of specials who have no way of reducing said Favor, that's pretty awful.
Whee.
So not only were our special's powers a liability to the village, but we also couldn't ever have blindsided the mafia with them.
GG Host.
Hardly a liability when the main special (which regenerated) could create more seers in a game than probably any other phalla ever. The other specials could get two seer results every other day. And every vanillager could get a seer result after 4 days.
So your one downside to all that seering? The mafia knew when people were powering up to it.
The mafia's defense to that? Either publicly roleblock them (making the vote record work for the village) or kill them (making the vote record work for the village).
Wrong.
Other downsides:
- Anyone not in the network has no clue what their Favor is and cannot act with any certainty whatsoever. Since you had to target three players, the chances of having to target someone outside the network, at least to start, is likely, if not expected.
- Those within the network turn into SKs when they reach 5 Favor. Seeing as the network primarily consists of specials who have no way of reducing said Favor, that's pretty awful.
- Yeah, you have to start a network somehow, so at the start the boss had to choose wisely. Or you know not be threatened with being voted out the first two days.
- There were only 3 players incapable of lowering their favor. All three were the family members and yeah they were the most at risk for turning into SKs. I think I edited my post above before you made this one, though, and I feel like I addressed it.
edit: Also this game was unique in that once the ball started rolling there wouldn't be just one "network" which would work towards and against the villages favor. Since everyone could seer, but the results could rarely be trusted between groups of seer results, it created a situation where if someone did become SK, then it wouldn't be that detrimental due to the multiple groups of trusted people existing.
There were 7 6 players incapable of lowering their Favor. The Boss people, and the 3 Lieutenants that got generated.
Unless you are presupposing that the Lieutenants should deliberately target people other than those they think are mafia so as to manage their Favor.
I'm sure that vigging your own town is precisely the type of strategy that usually wins you games.
also the fact that you didnt get told what your favor was if you'd gotten it.
like ebum told me that he'd given me a favor, but then i got no clarification and neither did he.
eh, whatever.
It had to be somewhat opaque or else everyone would know who the mafia was on the second day.
Ebum's power gave 3 people favor AND double their favor from voting.
That meant that the people he targeted could have used their power the next day and ebum could be confident they either had 1 or 3 favor. Meaning they would either get a straight seer (mafia/village) AND know the person they voted for was mafia OR know the person they voted for was village.
That is ridiculously powerful for the village to be able to do THREE times a day.
I'm not exactly sure why we weren't voting someone more obviously mafia out tonight, or last night.
Like Assuran was a solid bet, but voting out JPants would have been better, just because he couldn't be villager and have Flarne be a snitch simultaneously.
I'd be interested to know why Phyphor died over capfalcon though.
I was like 100% sure Bedlam was bad.
I also thought it would be easiest to convince others that Bedlam was bad.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
There were 7 6 players incapable of lowering their Favor. The Boss people, and the 3 Lieutenants that got generated.
Unless you are presupposing that the Lieutenants should deliberately target people other than those they think are mafia so as to manage their Favor.
I'm sure that vigging your own town is precisely the type of strategy that usually wins you games.
Actually that's exactly what they could have done. After the first day, if they stuck to the same vote, they would either vig a mafia or know someone was village.
Imagine an odd/even day power that you could target someone and if they were mafia you killed them OR if they were village you got a seer result.
That is damn powerful. And that's what the lieutenants had.
Going from there, if the lieutenants did kill a mafia they are at a high risk of becoming SK. But honestly, I would trade a risk at losing a village to SK because SKs are unconnected and easier to kill/discover if it meant that I would definitely kill a mafia. Especially in this game since the vote record led to the mafia so strongly.
Now if the lieutenant didn't kill a mafia, they would be at 0 favor with a village seer result and pretty far from becoming an SK, meaning you have a solid mini-network that is at least 2-3 days from any danger.
So how does the [5+] power actually work?
Because every Lieutenant who happens across a mafia, as you've described above, would instantly go into that Favor territory, and then either be unable to use their Favor for the rest of the game, or become an SK who's just killed someone and is about to be mafia'd, because he'd be pretty much alone on 2 mafia votes.
Frankly it's just a rubbish "GOTCHA" from the GM.
Even if it's a fair trade for the village, it's a horrible horrible trade for the Lieutenant.
So how does the [5+] power actually work?
Because every Lieutenant who happens across a mafia, as you've described above, would instantly go into that Favor territory, and then either be unable to use their Favor for the rest of the game, or become an SK who's just killed someone and is about to be mafia'd, because he'd be pretty much alone on 2 mafia votes.
Frankly it's just a rubbish "GOTCHA" from the GM.
Even if it's a fair trade for the village, it's a horrible horrible trade for the Lieutenant.
I can see your point.
I think the difference in our viewpoints is that I think everyone likes having a chance at an SK win since it so rarely gets assigned to people. so if it's a fair trade to the village and the person gets a really cool role change and game experience, I don't feel like it's a bad thing to do in a game where the village was so powerful and needed some serious drawbacks to that power.
Obi: I don't understand why I roleblocked JPants instead of it being a vig.
On Day 5, I voted for and targeted Assuran. That should have granted me 3 Favor.
On Day 6, I voted for JPants. That should have given me 4 Favor going into the action phase. Not 1.
Unless you're telling me that using the action on Assuran spent/wasted the 3 Favor? Because nothing in my PM or the clarifications I asked you suggested that would happen.
The flaw is that unknowns when it comes to your own powers is just straight not fun. The only time I would consider doing it is in an inherently silly game like a Phalla Phalla with an RNG type role. Like I get how mathematically this was pretty and balanced but psychologically most people are going to be gunshy about using an unpredictable power.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+1
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
also the fact that you didnt get told what your favor was if you'd gotten it.
like ebum told me that he'd given me a favor, but then i got no clarification and neither did he.
eh, whatever.
It had to be somewhat opaque or else everyone would know who the mafia was on the second day.
Ebum's power gave 3 people favor AND double their favor from voting.
That meant that the people he targeted could have used their power the next day and ebum could be confident they either had 1 or 3 favor. Meaning they would either get a straight seer (mafia/village) AND know the person they voted for was mafia OR know the person they voted for was village.
That is ridiculously powerful for the village to be able to do THREE times a day.
bull.
Ebum could maybe be confident that they had favor.
but in a game where roleblocks are a thing, nothing is certain.
and how are you going to know that you can use the favor, when you don't know if you have favor?
I was just supposed to guess at what my favor levels were night after night? Oh, so I could have had 1 favor, if i'd voted for a snitch. But I would have had 1 favor. But instead, I had to try and figure out if I'd gotten boss favor by randomly stabbing in the dark.
The flaw is that unknowns when it comes to your own powers is just straight not fun. The only time I would consider doing it is in an inherently silly game like a Phalla Phalla with an RNG type role. Like I get how mathematically this was pretty and balanced but psychologically most people are going to be gunshy about using an unpredictable power.
This is true and something I am learning when it comes to phalla design. I admit I still don't fully understand it though. Either you are a vanillager with no power (standard) or in this game you are a vanillager with a power that requires networking and teamwork. So either you act like a normal vanillager or go deep into the game. Should be a win win for letting people play how they want. But instead it makes it worse.
Obi: I don't understand why I roleblocked JPants instead of it being a vig.
On Day 5, I voted for and targeted Assuran. That should have granted me 3 Favor.
On Day 6, I voted for JPants. That should have given me 4 Favor going into the action phase. Not 1.
Unless you're telling me that using the action on Assuran spent/wasted the 3 Favor? Because nothing in my PM or the clarifications I asked you suggested that would happen.
I am on my phone so I dont have the spreadsheet. Will check tomorrow. I want to say that a villager roleblocked you on the night you targeted assuran, though. Will confirm tomorrow.
See here's my condensed opinion:
Known powers for me, unknown powers for the other guys: Fun.
Unknown powers for me, known powers for the other guys: Not fun.
And now post-game I find that I both didn't know what my powers were headed towards, and that the other guys also knew precisely what I could do all the time, because hey free wire-taps.
And that just sucks.
It also sucks that we didn't kill JPants 2 nights ago, but maybe people were tired of listening to me by that point.
Obi: Can you please clarify why my final action was a roleblock instead of a big? I really don't get it.
As for the nature of the game, I thought it was interesting but I was very confused.
I'm also frustrated that I ended up knowing exactly who the mafia were by the end and felt pretty powerless to do anything about it. Or, more accurately, I couldn't even remotely assess the village's chances by that point.
Obi: I don't understand why I roleblocked JPants instead of it being a vig.
On Day 5, I voted for and targeted Assuran. That should have granted me 3 Favor.
On Day 6, I voted for JPants. That should have given me 4 Favor going into the action phase. Not 1.
Unless you're telling me that using the action on Assuran spent/wasted the 3 Favor? Because nothing in my PM or the clarifications I asked you suggested that would happen.
I am on my phone so I dont have the spreadsheet. Will check tomorrow. I want to say that a villager roleblocked you on the night you targeted assuran, though. Will confirm tomorrow.
OK thanks.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
also the fact that you didnt get told what your favor was if you'd gotten it.
like ebum told me that he'd given me a favor, but then i got no clarification and neither did he.
eh, whatever.
It had to be somewhat opaque or else everyone would know who the mafia was on the second day.
Ebum's power gave 3 people favor AND double their favor from voting.
That meant that the people he targeted could have used their power the next day and ebum could be confident they either had 1 or 3 favor. Meaning they would either get a straight seer (mafia/village) AND know the person they voted for was mafia OR know the person they voted for was village.
That is ridiculously powerful for the village to be able to do THREE times a day.
bull.
Ebum could maybe be confident that they had favor.
but in a game where roleblocks are a thing, nothing is certain.
and how are you going to know that you can use the favor, when you don't know if you have favor?
I was just supposed to guess at what my favor levels were night after night? Oh, so I could have had 1 favor, if i'd voted for a snitch. But I would have had 1 favor. But instead, I had to try and figure out if I'd gotten boss favor by randomly stabbing in the dark.
Which is just crap.
Which is why this game was based around voting records.
Either you could gamble or plan around favor gain and use your power prior to being confident about your favor total.
Or you could wait until the vote record was more clear giving you a better idea into you favor total and it's effect.
Unknown roleblocks weren't as common as you'd think since the mafia's was public and most other villagers were waiting for three nights of voting before using their power. This meant that favor totals could be known with enough information or deductible with enough planning.
See here's my condensed opinion:
Known powers for me, unknown powers for the other guys: Fun.
Unknown powers for me, known powers for the other guys: Not fun.
And now post-game I find that I both didn't know what my powers were headed towards, and that the other guys also knew precisely what I could do all the time, because hey free wire-taps.
And that just sucks.
It also sucks that we didn't kill JPants 2 nights ago, but maybe people were tired of listening to me by that point.
You were a huge help networking all those people. I followed your lead, but I prioritized who I felt was more obvious and easiest to construct logical arguments against. Remember, you have to convince the non-networked village to vote with you. And you have to pressure the mafia into going along or revealing themselves at the same time.
To me, that was Assuran and Bedlam, respectively. I believed your analysis of JPants and Flarne but I felt I could more easily sell Assuran and Bedlam.
Oh well. Fat load of good it did.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Obviously the game had massive faults. I tried something crazy and some things worked and others didn't. meh.
I apologize to everyone that it annoyed/pissed off. I'm happy that anyone had fun. I'm grateful for everyone who played.
Posts
Village
Boss
Pull a Job – Choose 3 players (cannot self target). They gain one favor AND their Gain Favor passive power produces double favor tonight.
Confide – Target one player, they will be told their Favor total tonight. The total is considered to be their total after the vote but before power usage.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Boss's Family (family member with highest favor became the boss when the boss was removed from the game)
- Family Matters (Passive): Your favor is not reduced when using the Call in your Favor power.
- Call in your Favor: Reduce your favor by 1. The effect of your power is determined by your total Favor after the current day’s vote.
[1] Suspicion (Roleblock): Target a player and prevent use of all of their powers, including passives.
[2] Tail (Guard): Target a player and prevent one attack against them
[3] Ask Around (Seer): Target a player and learn their alignment and favor total (before any power use tonight).
[4] Hit (Vig): Target a player and remove them from the game
[5] Knowledge is Power (??): ?????.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Lieutenants (regened to vanillager with highest favor, village started with 2, would regen to one once less than half players in the game)
- Leader (Passive) – If you target a snitch with your Call in Your Favor power, your favor is not reduced and instead increased by 2.
- Call in your Favor: Reduce your favor by 1. The effect of your power is determined by your total Favor after the current day’s vote.
[1] Suspicion (Roleblock): Target a player and prevent use of all of their powers, including passives.
[2] Tail (Guard): Target a player and prevent one attack against them
[3] Ask Around (Seer): Target a player and learn their alignment and favor total (before any power use tonight).
[4] Hit (Vig): Target a player and remove them from the game
[5] Knowledge is Power (??): ?????.
Wincon: All threats to The Organization have been eliminated.
Mafia
- JPants is the Boss’s Son who would love nothing more than to have a normal life and see his horrible family and Organization crumble to nothingness. (Cover PM: The Organization has been in your family for generations. To see it infested with rat-faced snitches is a tragedy like no other. Hopefully the disease hasn’t spread to other family members, because family gets a pass if they make a mistake. There is only one thing a snitch should ever get and it’s definitely not a pass.) He has the following additional power:
[12/12]Wire Tap – Choose up to 3 players. Learn their Favor Total after votes, but before power usage. One charge used per player targeted.
[12/12]Stakeout – Choose up to 3 players. If they Called in their Favor you will learn who they targeted. One charge used per player targeted.
[3/3]Detain – Choose one player. Prevent all power use (including passives). They will be notified of their detainment and it will be noted in the narration. One charge used per player targeted.
[2/2]Arrest – Target a player and remove them from the game.
[2/2]Arrest – Target a player and remove them from the game.
Wincon – Outnumber all remaining and former Organization Members
My plan before I was desperately poking everyone who was active late on day one (2/3 of whom I ended up hitting were mafia, wheeeee!) was to give MrT favor for winning TAR, shalmelo favor for being old CK2 buddies, and ahava favor because I'm a fan of ahava.
That would have gone OH SO MUCH BETTER for the village.
I'm surprised it didn't get you voted out sooner. Ebum told kime that he pretty much knew that you and preda were snitches. It got preda killed, but then for some reason it never came back on you.
Yeah, that you had to give 1 Favor to 3 people so you could be saved but were definitely not getting any favor from the vote, instead of guaranteeing a seer result the next day (1 free + double vote gain = 3 or 1 = use power and know if village or not because either Roleblock or Seer) really sucked for the village.
also, i 100% forgot bedlam was mafia when i started that vote. whoops.
Second message was me telling him that Preda lied about our conversation or lack thereof on day 2.
Third one was similar to some of the analysis in the thread that made me very much assume jpants was evil. And I repeated that Flarne was probably evil, since kime had died.
I'm just way too adorable to die.
So not only were our special's powers a liability to the village, but we also couldn't ever have blindsided the mafia with them.
GG Host.
So not only were our specials' powers a liability to the village, but we also couldn't ever have blindsided the mafia with them.
GG Host.
Hardly a liability when the main special (which regenerated) could create more seers in a game than probably any other phalla ever. The other specials could get two seer results every other day. And every vanillager could get a seer result after 4 days.
So one downside to all that seering? The mafia knew when people were powering up to it.
The mafia's defense to that? Either publicly roleblock them (making the vote record work for the village) or kill them (making the vote record work for the village).
The other downside to all that seering? You may create some SKs. Not that big of a deal considering it would have been pretty obvious when a black kill starts showing up around the same time as the first player hits 5 favor. Dots connected.
Wrong.
Other downsides:
- Anyone not in the network has no clue what their Favor is and cannot act with any certainty whatsoever. Since you had to target three players, the chances of having to target someone outside the network, at least to start, is likely, if not expected.
- Those within the network turn into SKs when they reach 5 Favor. Seeing as the network primarily consists of specials who have no way of reducing said Favor, that's pretty awful.
- Yeah, you have to start a network somehow, so at the start the boss had to choose wisely. Or you know not be threatened with being voted out the first two days.
- There were only 3 players incapable of lowering their favor. All three were the family members and yeah they were the most at risk for turning into SKs. I think I edited my post above before you made this one, though, and I feel like I addressed it.
edit: Also this game was unique in that once the ball started rolling there wouldn't be just one "network" which would work towards and against the villages favor. Since everyone could seer, but the results could rarely be trusted between groups of seer results, it created a situation where if someone did become SK, then it wouldn't be that detrimental due to the multiple groups of trusted people existing.
like ebum told me that he'd given me a favor, but then i got no clarification and neither did he.
eh, whatever.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Unless you are presupposing that the Lieutenants should deliberately target people other than those they think are mafia so as to manage their Favor.
I'm sure that vigging your own town is precisely the type of strategy that usually wins you games.
It had to be somewhat opaque or else everyone would know who the mafia was on the second day.
Ebum's power gave 3 people favor AND double their favor from voting.
That meant that the people he targeted could have used their power the next day and ebum could be confident they either had 1 or 3 favor. Meaning they would either get a straight seer (mafia/village) AND know the person they voted for was mafia OR know the person they voted for was village.
That is ridiculously powerful for the village to be able to do THREE times a day.
I was like 100% sure Bedlam was bad.
I also thought it would be easiest to convince others that Bedlam was bad.
Actually that's exactly what they could have done. After the first day, if they stuck to the same vote, they would either vig a mafia or know someone was village.
Imagine an odd/even day power that you could target someone and if they were mafia you killed them OR if they were village you got a seer result.
That is damn powerful. And that's what the lieutenants had.
Going from there, if the lieutenants did kill a mafia they are at a high risk of becoming SK. But honestly, I would trade a risk at losing a village to SK because SKs are unconnected and easier to kill/discover if it meant that I would definitely kill a mafia. Especially in this game since the vote record led to the mafia so strongly.
Now if the lieutenant didn't kill a mafia, they would be at 0 favor with a village seer result and pretty far from becoming an SK, meaning you have a solid mini-network that is at least 2-3 days from any danger.
Because every Lieutenant who happens across a mafia, as you've described above, would instantly go into that Favor territory, and then either be unable to use their Favor for the rest of the game, or become an SK who's just killed someone and is about to be mafia'd, because he'd be pretty much alone on 2 mafia votes.
Frankly it's just a rubbish "GOTCHA" from the GM.
Even if it's a fair trade for the village, it's a horrible horrible trade for the Lieutenant.
I can see your point.
I think the difference in our viewpoints is that I think everyone likes having a chance at an SK win since it so rarely gets assigned to people. so if it's a fair trade to the village and the person gets a really cool role change and game experience, I don't feel like it's a bad thing to do in a game where the village was so powerful and needed some serious drawbacks to that power.
On Day 5, I voted for and targeted Assuran. That should have granted me 3 Favor.
On Day 6, I voted for JPants. That should have given me 4 Favor going into the action phase. Not 1.
Unless you're telling me that using the action on Assuran spent/wasted the 3 Favor? Because nothing in my PM or the clarifications I asked you suggested that would happen.
bull.
Ebum could maybe be confident that they had favor.
but in a game where roleblocks are a thing, nothing is certain.
and how are you going to know that you can use the favor, when you don't know if you have favor?
I was just supposed to guess at what my favor levels were night after night? Oh, so I could have had 1 favor, if i'd voted for a snitch. But I would have had 1 favor. But instead, I had to try and figure out if I'd gotten boss favor by randomly stabbing in the dark.
Which is just crap.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
This is true and something I am learning when it comes to phalla design. I admit I still don't fully understand it though. Either you are a vanillager with no power (standard) or in this game you are a vanillager with a power that requires networking and teamwork. So either you act like a normal vanillager or go deep into the game. Should be a win win for letting people play how they want. But instead it makes it worse.
I am on my phone so I dont have the spreadsheet. Will check tomorrow. I want to say that a villager roleblocked you on the night you targeted assuran, though. Will confirm tomorrow.
Known powers for me, unknown powers for the other guys: Fun.
Unknown powers for me, known powers for the other guys: Not fun.
And now post-game I find that I both didn't know what my powers were headed towards, and that the other guys also knew precisely what I could do all the time, because hey free wire-taps.
And that just sucks.
It also sucks that we didn't kill JPants 2 nights ago, but maybe people were tired of listening to me by that point.
thanks for running.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
As for the nature of the game, I thought it was interesting but I was very confused.
I'm also frustrated that I ended up knowing exactly who the mafia were by the end and felt pretty powerless to do anything about it. Or, more accurately, I couldn't even remotely assess the village's chances by that point.
Even if the village probably would have had a better chance without specials.
OK thanks.
Which is why this game was based around voting records.
Either you could gamble or plan around favor gain and use your power prior to being confident about your favor total.
Or you could wait until the vote record was more clear giving you a better idea into you favor total and it's effect.
Unknown roleblocks weren't as common as you'd think since the mafia's was public and most other villagers were waiting for three nights of voting before using their power. This meant that favor totals could be known with enough information or deductible with enough planning.
You were a huge help networking all those people. I followed your lead, but I prioritized who I felt was more obvious and easiest to construct logical arguments against. Remember, you have to convince the non-networked village to vote with you. And you have to pressure the mafia into going along or revealing themselves at the same time.
To me, that was Assuran and Bedlam, respectively. I believed your analysis of JPants and Flarne but I felt I could more easily sell Assuran and Bedlam.
Oh well. Fat load of good it did.
I apologize to everyone that it annoyed/pissed off. I'm happy that anyone had fun. I'm grateful for everyone who played.
I kind of like them as both giving the village a way to hurt the mafia and shoot themselves in the foot without any player removal.