Whelp, looking like another game where it's pointless to be anything other than a mage.
...why?
Have you seen Knight Enchanter? Spirit Blade alone is more powerful than anything else we've seen so far.
Like, look at Warrior: Two-Headed Weapon. Might Blow occupies roughly the same place as Spirit Blade, but is worse in every way. Less damage, no bonus damage versus defensive measures, costs more Stamina and has a 16 second cooldown. That's probably a one use per fight ability - maybe twice. Spirit Blade can be used every time you attack.
It's true that Knight Enchanter is a Specialization, so it's not quite a fair apples-to-apples comparison. So let's look at Chain Lightning, which occupies roughly the same spot as Mighty Blow in the Mage: Storm tree. Chain Lightning does more damage, hits multiple targets, and has half the cooldown. It's not unique, either, as Inferno has a similarly better ability and Winter has a power comparable to Might Blow plus a debuff.
Like, look at Warrior: Two-Headed Weapon. Might Blow occupies roughly the same place as Spirit Blade, but is worse in every way. Less damage, no bonus damage versus defensive measures, costs more Stamina and has a 16 second cooldown. That's probably a one use per fight ability - maybe twice. Spirit Blade can be used every time you attack.
300% weapon damage on a staff isn't going to be equivalent to 300% weapon damage on a greatsword.
I thought Wall of Fire sounded better than Wall of Ice, assuming that at least sometimes, the AI actually tries to avoid running through the fire. With Wall of Fire, you can lay it across enemies to burn them initially, and then it might still have barrier effect for enemies on the other side of it.
If Wall of Fire also restricts enemy movement while doling out near-Fire Mine damage to anyone it was cast on, then it's definitely got a leg-up on Wall of Ice, whose sole advantage over it would be blocking LoS...but AI pathfinding with fire hasn't been great, and I expect enemies are expected to cross it.
Well, you can also park your frost mage next to the ice wall for the armor boost, but I don't know how useful that would be on any mage that's not knight enchanter. I can't decide what element to run for a support oriented mage. I was gonna go frost for the mana regen, but it doesn't have enough area control for my liking.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Honestly, I don't think we'll have a good measure of how the classes work until we see them in action.
Something I was looking at is not on do your characters have a decent amount of abilities at their command but they also have a lot of abilities that boost and work in tandem with their allies.
Like a lot of tiny boosts that when all put together are pretty substantial.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I wish we could get a look at all the specialization trees. I need to know what necromancer does to decide which mage I'm gonna roll with. Also to figure out how make my two hander warrior maximum tank.
Aye.
I got so many questions about necromancer. Surprised we've gotten this far and only really know abit about Knight Enchanter so far.
Would be nice to have more of the specializations available so we can start thinking about some of this.
Whelp, looking like another game where it's pointless to be anything other than a mage.
...why?
Have you seen Knight Enchanter? Spirit Blade alone is more powerful than anything else we've seen so far.
Like, look at Warrior: Two-Headed Weapon. Might Blow occupies roughly the same place as Spirit Blade, but is worse in every way. Less damage, no bonus damage versus defensive measures, costs more Stamina and has a 16 second cooldown. That's probably a one use per fight ability - maybe twice. Spirit Blade can be used every time you attack.
It's true that Knight Enchanter is a Specialization, so it's not quite a fair apples-to-apples comparison. So let's look at Chain Lightning, which occupies roughly the same spot as Mighty Blow in the Mage: Storm tree. Chain Lightning does more damage, hits multiple targets, and has half the cooldown. It's not unique, either, as Inferno has a similarly better ability and Winter has a power comparable to Might Blow plus a debuff.
You're making a lot of assumptions here.
Gear, weapons, other abilities, passives, tactics, enemy placement, enemy resistances, ability cost, combos, runes, crafted gear, mana vs stamina..there are so many variables at play here that saying mages are better than warriors because of one single ability is just silly.
It's not one single ability, Maz-. I detailed four in that one post.
But as SoundsPlush points out, it's a pointless comparison to make if weapon damage isn't normalized across weapons (ie, if two handed weapons don't have the same damage as staffs). Though I'm a little unclear about weapon restrictions, the data I have been able to dig up (see post above) certainly implies broad class restrictions.
So yeah, it's certainly premature to drive any nails in. But based on the last two games and what we've seen so far, I'm comfortable saying that it's a worrying trend.
I always play a warrior in either Dragon Age game - it just seems to fit, as being the leader of a band of ragtag adventurers. I'll probably do the same with Inquisition, especially considering they seem to have open faced helmets. My kingdom for a helmet that doesn't make my characters look like clowns.
But I may have to consider otherwise, Cass is a really intense character all around - so may have to consider picking something else and let her tank.
I always play a warrior in either Dragon Age game - it just seems to fit, as being the leader of a band of ragtag adventurers. I'll probably do the same with Inquisition, especially considering they seem to have open faced helmets. My kingdom for a helmet that doesn't make my characters look like clowns.
But I may have to consider otherwise, Cass is a really intense character all around - so may have to consider picking something else and let her tank.
That's true, I forgot they've retooled the way healing works, so maybe working a party is more lenient. I usually went with 2 mages, a rogue and a warrior. If keeping people up isn't a mana sink, then I'll work with 1 mage, 1 rogue and 2 warriors... or whoever the most interesting characters are really. Cassandra is a central character to the entire DA timeline, so I couldn't imagine a party without her
It's not one single ability, Maz-. I detailed four in that one post.
But as SoundsPlush points out, it's a pointless comparison to make if weapon damage isn't normalized across weapons (ie, if two handed weapons don't have the same damage as staffs). Though I'm a little unclear about weapon restrictions, the data I have been able to dig up (see post above) certainly implies broad class restrictions.
So yeah, it's certainly premature to drive any nails in. But based on the last two games and what we've seen so far, I'm comfortable saying that it's a worrying trend.
Errrrr...what? DAO, I'll give you. Mages were ridiculous in that one. However, they weren't anything special in DA2. I thought they balanced the classes pretty well in that one.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
So if I'm reading Aura of Pain correctly. It does continuous spirit damage and increase your damage by 200% and increases it even more for every 1% health you're missing.
So...imagine if like...you had low health but you kept constantly building guard and using barrier to keep yourself upright.
I wonder if I might be better off with a default world state going into this.
When I was filling out the keep, there were a lot of sidequests and such that I could barely remember the context. Worse still, I've never played any of the DA2 dlc, so it would be hella awkward to hear references to stuff that I've straight up never done.
I don't have time to replay the old games before next week. I guess I'm just hoping Inquisition is mostly entirely new stuff with a side helping of callbacks mostly to the main characters/story of DA 1-2?
I wonder if I might be better off with a default world state going into this.
When I was filling out the keep, there were a lot of sidequests and such that I could barely remember the context. Worse still, I've never played any of the DA2 dlc, so it would be hella awkward to hear references to stuff that I've straight up never done.
I don't have time to replay the old games before next week. I guess I'm just hoping Inquisition is mostly entirely new stuff with a side helping of callbacks mostly to the main characters/story of DA 1-2?
Just look at a wiki. Only take a couple hours max to go through the entire thing you don't have a clue about. Probably shorter.
I think the 200% is just the damage aura, and the bonus damage is based solely on missing health. It seems to drain stamina while its up though, so it might not be feasible to maintain if you wanna actually use abilities.
I think the 200% is just the damage aura, and the bonus damage is based solely on missing health. It seems to drain stamina while its up though, so it might not be feasible to maintain if you wanna actually use abilities.
Yeah, I was going to say, I wish they were a little more explicit on some of these effects. It's not clear if that means your attacks do 200% damage, your attacks do +200% damage, or enemies in the ring take tick damage every ? seconds equal to 200% damage. My guess agrees with yours, though—the personal damage bonus is probably just the health loss.
Still, managing stamina to have that thing on for a bit and then hit Devour is going to wreck bosses. If you fire it off when you're down to 10% health, aside from the rising damage bonus until then, you're healing yourself to full with an attack dealing 20x damage.
You can barely see it on that card, but I noticed on some of the other skill images—they seem to have learned from Mass Effect's tech/biotic combos, given their eldritch/impact/precision detonators.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. I'm thinking you guys are right in that the pulse is the 200% and your personal bonus is dependent on health.
Still that's pretty impressive. And I'm guessing the upgrade will probably reduce stamina usage by half.
Rogue was far and away the overpowered class of DA2, right?
I never tried warrior, and my mage playthrough was when the game came out (so I don't remember much), but in my recent run I did rogue and it was truly ridiculous. Like, I know the PC's are always going to outclass companions, but the degree at which my rogue did it was insane
So if I'm reading Aura of Pain correctly. It does continuous spirit damage and increase your damage by 200% and increases it even more for every 1% health you're missing.
So...imagine if like...you had low health but you kept constantly building guard and using barrier to keep yourself upright.
That sounds...pretty amazing.
I was actually planning on a dwarf S+B reaver for my first go, so if it actually seems somewhat viable then :biggrin:
Foolish Chaos on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Rogue was far and away the overpowered class of DA2, right?
I never tried warrior, and my mage playthrough was when the game came out (so I don't remember much), but in my recent run I did rogue and it was truly ridiculous. Like, I know the PC's are always going to outclass companions, but the degree at which my rogue did it was insane
So if I'm reading Aura of Pain correctly. It does continuous spirit damage and increase your damage by 200% and increases it even more for every 1% health you're missing.
So...imagine if like...you had low health but you kept constantly building guard and using barrier to keep yourself upright.
That sounds...pretty amazing.
I was actually planning on a dwarf S+B reaver for my first go, so if it actually seems somewhat viable then :biggrin:
S&B warriors also have a skill where they regain 10% stamina for every 10% of health they lose.
I rogued the first two DA games and I'll be roguing the third, darn it. I'm just glad that this game has not one, but two awesomesauce mages for me to choose from in my party. I made do with constant Wynne and a lot of tactics in DA1, while in DA2 I tolerated Merril whenever I couldn't have Bethany in my party. Anders was so benched.
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It's not one single ability, Maz-. I detailed four in that one post.
But as SoundsPlush points out, it's a pointless comparison to make if weapon damage isn't normalized across weapons (ie, if two handed weapons don't have the same damage as staffs). Though I'm a little unclear about weapon restrictions, the data I have been able to dig up (see post above) certainly implies broad class restrictions.
So yeah, it's certainly premature to drive any nails in. But based on the last two games and what we've seen so far, I'm comfortable saying that it's a worrying trend.
Errrrr...what? DAO, I'll give you. Mages were ridiculous in that one. However, they weren't anything special in DA2. I thought they balanced the classes pretty well in that one.
Better, but a mage PC was still your only choice for healing if you didn't want anders (yeah yeah I know you guys are 2cool 2heal /suggest modding merill)
Checking it? You mean you don't set you clock to it?
The amusing thing about it is that it wouldn't actually be an argument if people didn't hate Anders so badly. No one actually cares about the healing mechanics in DA2; they only hate the fact that they have to bring Anders along.
He so got to live because of that. I was fine with him up until then. In 3 he no longer has that to hide behind, so going to lightsaber him into chunks.
Actually I loathe the healing mechanics in DA2, that game is unplayable on anything above hard.
Isn't that more to do with AoE making you more deadly to your teammates than to the enemy? I play on nightmare for all Bioware games, because I'm into that kind of self torture, and you really have to tune yourself differently in each Dragon Age game or you will end up putting your party in the ground instantly.
Rogue was far and away the overpowered class of DA2, right?
I never tried warrior, and my mage playthrough was when the game came out (so I don't remember much), but in my recent run I did rogue and it was truly ridiculous. Like, I know the PC's are always going to outclass companions, but the degree at which my rogue did it was insane
Rogue was so powerful that Bioware had to hardcap the damage a single attack could do, because a well built rogue would one-shot anything in the game outside of the High Dragon.
Actually I loathe the healing mechanics in DA2, that game is unplayable on anything above hard.
Isn't that more to do with AoE making you more deadly to your teammates than to the enemy? I play on nightmare for all Bioware games, because I'm into that kind of self torture, and you really have to tune yourself differently in each Dragon Age game or you will end up putting your party in the ground instantly.
That reminds me, I thought I saw something about DA:I having a separate option for party damage on/off. Anyone know if that's the case? It'd be fun to try the higher difficulties without having to deal with that bullshit (which I absolutely refuse to do otherwise).
Actually I loathe the healing mechanics in DA2, that game is unplayable on anything above hard.
Isn't that more to do with AoE making you more deadly to your teammates than to the enemy? I play on nightmare for all Bioware games, because I'm into that kind of self torture, and you really have to tune yourself differently in each Dragon Age game or you will end up putting your party in the ground instantly.
That reminds me, I thought I saw something about DA:I having a separate option for party damage on/off. Anyone know if that's the case? It'd be fun to try the higher difficulties without having to deal with that bullshit (which I absolutely refuse to do otherwise).
Yeah, friendly fire is a separate toggle than difficulty, thank god.
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I mean come on. Light sabers!? How is that even FAIR!? Why do mages get all the cool stuff?
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300% weapon damage on a staff isn't going to be equivalent to 300% weapon damage on a greatsword.
If Wall of Fire also restricts enemy movement while doling out near-Fire Mine damage to anyone it was cast on, then it's definitely got a leg-up on Wall of Ice, whose sole advantage over it would be blocking LoS...but AI pathfinding with fire hasn't been great, and I expect enemies are expected to cross it.
Edit: Found some, though it's a bit old
2H
Masterwork Serrated Greatsword: 264 physical (only requirement is "8 metal")
Merkel's First: 243 physical (item level 20, requirement: level 6)
The Whale: 239 physical (item level 20, requirement: level 9)
Staff
Staff of the Void: 43 electricity (item level 20, requirement: level 17)
That seems a little all over the place, lol.
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Something I was looking at is not on do your characters have a decent amount of abilities at their command but they also have a lot of abilities that boost and work in tandem with their allies.
Like a lot of tiny boosts that when all put together are pretty substantial.
I got so many questions about necromancer. Surprised we've gotten this far and only really know abit about Knight Enchanter so far.
Would be nice to have more of the specializations available so we can start thinking about some of this.
You're making a lot of assumptions here.
Gear, weapons, other abilities, passives, tactics, enemy placement, enemy resistances, ability cost, combos, runes, crafted gear, mana vs stamina..there are so many variables at play here that saying mages are better than warriors because of one single ability is just silly.
But as SoundsPlush points out, it's a pointless comparison to make if weapon damage isn't normalized across weapons (ie, if two handed weapons don't have the same damage as staffs). Though I'm a little unclear about weapon restrictions, the data I have been able to dig up (see post above) certainly implies broad class restrictions.
So yeah, it's certainly premature to drive any nails in. But based on the last two games and what we've seen so far, I'm comfortable saying that it's a worrying trend.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
But I may have to consider otherwise, Cass is a really intense character all around - so may have to consider picking something else and let her tank.
Errrrr...what? DAO, I'll give you. Mages were ridiculous in that one. However, they weren't anything special in DA2. I thought they balanced the classes pretty well in that one.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Nothing too surprising just Devour and Aura of Pain.
https://33.media.tumblr.com/e14a3c5368c4c7422c0a9cdd30a970a9/tumblr_nch24937Bg1qfsbdwo2_1280.jpg
So...imagine if like...you had low health but you kept constantly building guard and using barrier to keep yourself upright.
That sounds...pretty amazing.
When I was filling out the keep, there were a lot of sidequests and such that I could barely remember the context. Worse still, I've never played any of the DA2 dlc, so it would be hella awkward to hear references to stuff that I've straight up never done.
I don't have time to replay the old games before next week. I guess I'm just hoping Inquisition is mostly entirely new stuff with a side helping of callbacks mostly to the main characters/story of DA 1-2?
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Just look at a wiki. Only take a couple hours max to go through the entire thing you don't have a clue about. Probably shorter.
Yeah, I was going to say, I wish they were a little more explicit on some of these effects. It's not clear if that means your attacks do 200% damage, your attacks do +200% damage, or enemies in the ring take tick damage every ? seconds equal to 200% damage. My guess agrees with yours, though—the personal damage bonus is probably just the health loss.
Still, managing stamina to have that thing on for a bit and then hit Devour is going to wreck bosses. If you fire it off when you're down to 10% health, aside from the rising damage bonus until then, you're healing yourself to full with an attack dealing 20x damage.
You can barely see it on that card, but I noticed on some of the other skill images—they seem to have learned from Mass Effect's tech/biotic combos, given their eldritch/impact/precision detonators.
Still that's pretty impressive. And I'm guessing the upgrade will probably reduce stamina usage by half.
I never tried warrior, and my mage playthrough was when the game came out (so I don't remember much), but in my recent run I did rogue and it was truly ridiculous. Like, I know the PC's are always going to outclass companions, but the degree at which my rogue did it was insane
I was actually planning on a dwarf S+B reaver for my first go, so if it actually seems somewhat viable then :biggrin:
S&B warriors also have a skill where they regain 10% stamina for every 10% of health they lose.
That would go along with this well, I think.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Better, but a mage PC was still your only choice for healing if you didn't want anders (yeah yeah I know you guys are 2cool 2heal /suggest modding merill)
Or upgrade your gear?
Or kill the other thing faster then it can kill you?
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Yep, it's time for the DA2 healing argument again
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Checking it? You mean you don't set you clock to it?
Bioware giving no fucks. They know they have a winner on their hands.
The amusing thing about it is that it wouldn't actually be an argument if people didn't hate Anders so badly. No one actually cares about the healing mechanics in DA2; they only hate the fact that they have to bring Anders along.
Isn't that more to do with AoE making you more deadly to your teammates than to the enemy? I play on nightmare for all Bioware games, because I'm into that kind of self torture, and you really have to tune yourself differently in each Dragon Age game or you will end up putting your party in the ground instantly.
Rogue was so powerful that Bioware had to hardcap the damage a single attack could do, because a well built rogue would one-shot anything in the game outside of the High Dragon.
That reminds me, I thought I saw something about DA:I having a separate option for party damage on/off. Anyone know if that's the case? It'd be fun to try the higher difficulties without having to deal with that bullshit (which I absolutely refuse to do otherwise).
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Yeah, friendly fire is a separate toggle than difficulty, thank god.