I think that as a woman the most important thing is the feeling you get out of it. If it makes you uncomfortable, that's bad. If it makes you feel empowered, that's good!
THey're not mutually exclusive, though
Bayonetta's a lot of things but I think it can be agreed that the games are not an absolute good in terms of their gender portrayal; it doesn't mean they're bad or that they're good, it just means that there's a lot to dissect there
So I decided to finally play the copy of Bayonetta I've had sitting around for years, because the new one's just come out. Just got through the prologue and half of the first chapter because I suck (gonna have to try that bit again).
I am genuinely baffled by this game. It's an absolute blast to play, the music is infectious, and the story is insane. The hyper-sexualized animations for Bayonetta herself are so over-the-top I'm almost tempted to think it's satire? I don't know what to make of it! Guess I'll have to give it some more playtime to solidify my opinion.
All right, so now I've played a few more chapters, and I feel like I have a decent handle on what Bayonetta's all about. I'm still conflicted! Yes, her portrayal is absolutely sexualized to hell and back. Yes, the camera angles are absurd and the innuendo is constant. YES, OKAY, her attacks make her clothes come off.
On the other hand, she's always (so far anyway) portrayed as having the upper hand. She is not being victimized, she's not being pressured. Fuck, she doesn't even seem to be doing all that jazz for anyone's viewing pleasure. If anything, it's so over-the-top as to cause discomfort to those who might normally be into that sort of portrayal in games or movies.
On the OTHER other hand, I'd be far more happy with this interpretation if there had been any female developers on the original team. Not that an all-male team couldn't possibly create a feminist, woman-empowering game, but I'm more likely to question the intent of that team vs. one which had more involvement from da ladiez.
On yet another of my multitudinous other hands, does developer intent matter so much? As a woman playing this game, I find it engaging and I find Bayonetta herself to be delightful. I feel like maybe I should be offended, but I'm having too much fun and it seems like the leading lady is also having a blast.
So yeah, very conflicted. I definitely understand both sides-- if people find it offensive, it's not hard to see why and I don't blame them for it. If people find it empowering, I also can see that interpretation. Probably it's a mix of both, but damn if it isn't fun to play.
Basically, I'd say @Transporter had a good summation earlier in this thread:
In Bayonetta 1 and 2. Bayonetta was "sexy". But not in a "Oh my god, she's so hot" kind of way, but more Bayonetta proclaiming, in a LOUD voice, "GOD, I AM SO FUCKING SEXTY HOT". It's not a "do you find me attractive notice me and my attractiveness", it's a loud declaration of, "HOLY SHIT, do you see how HOT I AM RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE I AM. TAKE MY TEMPERATURE, I'M BURNIN UUUUPPP".
It's an entierly self-serving "sexy", not for anyone else, just her.
Sorry for the ramble folks, just trying to sort through my thoughts. They might change as I continue playing, too, as I'm still pretty early in the game.
When we started Bayonetta, our director, Hideki Kamiya, asked me to design a character with three traits:
1) A Female Lead
2) A Modern Witch
3) She Uses Four Guns
The female designer got these instructions and produced Bayonetta.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I do still like how the whole game is about Bayonetta using what are generally considered both intrinsically feminine and intrinsically evil powers (witchcraft) to beat the Hell out of the patriarchal system of Heaven, whose pretension at righteousness is a mask for something even more foul and alien beneath the surface
+5
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
Which is ultimately reversed when it's revealed
that the supreme being of Paradiso (and Inferno) is female.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I've barely played any Devil May Cry games, and I kinda want to play DMC2 all the way through just to have it be my one big exposure to the series.
Other than a few good things like Dante riding a motorcycle straight into hell, the "Here's your crown" quip, and Lucia there's really no reason to play DMC2.
As a game it's a perfectly serviceable action game for the time period. The problem is it's not a general action game, it's a sequel to one of the best, genre defining games ever made, so in it's own twisted way deserves all the hate it otherwise shouldn't get.
Cancelling whip throw with umbran spear at the top if its arc will pop them extremely high in the sky, although it is hard to time the maximum height.
The 360 moves are obvious but I discovered something interesting I didn't know when making this video.
It doesn't matter where Bayonetta is in relation to the enemy when you do directional inputs like back forward or forward forward. No matter which direction you press on the stick and which direction bayonetta is facing, the resulting move will always head towards the soft locked enemy. You only have to make sure the "back forward" moves are opposite directions and the "forward forward" moves are the same direction.
You can do eg left to right for tetsu or left left for stinger moves, every time, all the time, and it will always work.
As a result you can confidently use these attacks in conjunction with umbran spear even if you have no idea where she will be after the teleport!
Extremely handy.
I need to get the climax brace so I can test things a lot easier. Being lazy about the crows.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
So I defeated Nelo Angelo in DMC1. Third fight, what is pretty definitely the last one.
The story in that game is so paper-thin it's kind of endearing. I wasn't expecting Shakespeare but god damn, I'm most of the way through it and there's barely been any dialogue at all. I guess it's a game of its time.
The part in late-game where you return to the first parts of the game but everything is all dark and some doors are missing is kind of getting under my skin, though. I can see where this originally was a RE game and this part is creepy as fuck.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
+1
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
I'm making a lot of videos for this game showing various techniques. I hope you guys don't mind if I do a bunch of posts in a row over time if nobody replies in between. I don't want these techniques to get missed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROiKCb-EOCg&feature=youtu.be
I put a lot of information in the description of my videos on youtube, so I recommend checking that. Don't worry you wont accidentally read any brain squashing comments.
I burn idiotic posts off my videos with the cleansing fires of this is not a democracy.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
The best part about taunting in DMC 3 is that it's slightly contextual.
If you taunt before a fight, you're egging on the enemy. If you taunt after you do something awesome, you're emphasizing that, yeah, that just happened.
warlords of draenor and shadows of mordor have taken up my time. i did beat bayonetta 2 but i'd like to go back to it still. though the further away i get from it the more afraid i am that i'll just come back and suck at it or forget stuff.
Witch time amplifies the effects of your attacks across the board, but especially weaves. It generally increases stuns and keeps enemies in the air, but even if the occasional rare enemy isn't normally vulnerable to regular attacks during witch time they will be vulnerable to weaves. Example: Sloth.
This is why the Bracelet of Time is so overpowered.
What this game asks of you, the player, is to fit as much punishment as you can into an extremely small window. This means learning to dodge offset to get to stronger weaves to land and reacting extremely quickly when you dodge in order to disable and stun the enemy long enough to land further punishment outside of witch time.
This was recorded in third and infinite climax, but these rules don't differ across difficulties.
This is an extremely defense focused game. Your greatest attack options come from a strategically integrated defense. A lot of enemies have counter attacks or moves they will do in reaction to you: setting these up in order to get witch time and then countering with that witch time repeatedly through the fight in one long smooth sequence is the foundation for high level play in Bayonetta 2.
If you want to be all offense, equip bracelet of time, but as you can see, there isn't a lot of challenge to it.
A good rule of thumb is to do afterburner kick during witch time. If that doesn't work, that means you need weaves.
Super large enemies like Beloved, Belief etc, have a special system. They can be stunned by weaves regardless of witch time, but they can't be stunned when they are in the middle of an attack.
So you have to hit them in between their attacks. It's a timing thing. Witch time helps because it lets you land weaves in between their attacks. Launching weaves are best, but knockdown weaves are a good second best.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I guarantee I won't like it as much as the Road Rash part, even if it went on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
That part would be cool if it wasn't in the same chapter as the best boss fight in the game what the fuck make these things separate chapters it's not hard.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
When we started Bayonetta, our director, Hideki Kamiya, asked me to design a character with three traits:
1) A Female Lead
2) A Modern Witch
3) She Uses Four Guns
The female designer got these instructions and produced Bayonetta.
I don't think it's that simple, I've read before that they worked very closely with her the whole time. She pretty much just took orders from them.
I just used INFINITONS to punch a resurrected God through the entire solar system into the sun and then the credits started rolling and then the credits were interrupted because the game wasn't actually over
Posts
THey're not mutually exclusive, though
Bayonetta's a lot of things but I think it can be agreed that the games are not an absolute good in terms of their gender portrayal; it doesn't mean they're bad or that they're good, it just means that there's a lot to dissect there
http://platinumgames.com/2009/04/17/designing-bayonetta/
The female designer got these instructions and produced Bayonetta.
You're sick, you know that?
Why I fear the ocean.
As a game it's a perfectly serviceable action game for the time period. The problem is it's not a general action game, it's a sequel to one of the best, genre defining games ever made, so in it's own twisted way deserves all the hate it otherwise shouldn't get.
All I've ever played of the series is a few hours of DMC4.
I turned it off once it switched to Dante.
Cancelling whip throw with umbran spear at the top if its arc will pop them extremely high in the sky, although it is hard to time the maximum height.
The 360 moves are obvious but I discovered something interesting I didn't know when making this video.
It doesn't matter where Bayonetta is in relation to the enemy when you do directional inputs like back forward or forward forward. No matter which direction you press on the stick and which direction bayonetta is facing, the resulting move will always head towards the soft locked enemy. You only have to make sure the "back forward" moves are opposite directions and the "forward forward" moves are the same direction.
You can do eg left to right for tetsu or left left for stinger moves, every time, all the time, and it will always work.
As a result you can confidently use these attacks in conjunction with umbran spear even if you have no idea where she will be after the teleport!
Extremely handy.
I need to get the climax brace so I can test things a lot easier. Being lazy about the crows.
The story in that game is so paper-thin it's kind of endearing. I wasn't expecting Shakespeare but god damn, I'm most of the way through it and there's barely been any dialogue at all. I guess it's a game of its time.
The part in late-game where you return to the first parts of the game but everything is all dark and some doors are missing is kind of getting under my skin, though. I can see where this originally was a RE game and this part is creepy as fuck.
I
Should play that
And the first one
I put a lot of information in the description of my videos on youtube, so I recommend checking that. Don't worry you wont accidentally read any brain squashing comments.
I burn idiotic posts off my videos with the cleansing fires of this is not a democracy.
I have made many mistakes this year
If you taunt before a fight, you're egging on the enemy. If you taunt after you do something awesome, you're emphasizing that, yeah, that just happened.
Don't sell consoles while games are still comin out for em
You just never know
I rebought the console
Gamecube adapter, man
Anyway
I got Bayonetta 2
Do I really NEED to play the first game first, or can I just play 2 and go back if I'm still feeling it
Cause I really wanna play 2 and if I play 1 first there is like a 70% chance I burn out on this kind of game for a little while
Skip 1. You really don't miss much and you can just read the wiki.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Dragon Age Inquisition has stolen my time. I will come back to you eventually, I promise
This is literally my experience right now, as well
Smash Bros. isn't helping things either
This is a Hell of a couple of months
I'm not even aware that other games exist right now.
If my girlfriend wasn't addicted to ff xiv I wouldn't be playing anything else.
I hardly ever read threads outside of bayonetta 2. If I'm not playing it properly I'm testing something in it.
a perfect price for me to pay
she got a bronze on the first fight!
Uhhhh
That game turns into Road Rash for like 20 minutes halfway through?
Yes it does.
The Road Rash bit is cool, but I much preferred the....
No, I'll let you find out for yourself.
I guarantee I won't like it as much as the Road Rash part, even if it went on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long
I don't think it's that simple, I've read before that they worked very closely with her the whole time. She pretty much just took orders from them.
Why wouldn't that happen