Righto. The kind of distinctions I need to get the hang of.
There are a few abilities which cause spells to be cast, but these will always include the word "cast" in the ability. E.g. Isochron Scepter, flashback cards (as mentioned previously).
Righto. The kind of distinctions I need to get the hang of.
There are a few abilities which cause spells to be cast, but these will always include the word "cast" in the ability. E.g. Isochron Scepter, flashback cards (as mentioned previously).
Although depending on the version of printing, it might say "play" instead. Nowadays the only time they use "play" is if lands are an option on the effect.
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
So did not have a super great time at the Pre-release. Picked Jeskai, built a janky Jeskai deck with a lot of Manifest spells to be creatures and trigger Prowess, but no real reach or path to victory. So first two rounds go to time, then turns, and are draws. Round 3 my opponent gets stuck on two lands and I finally get a win, and then Round 4 I'm back to going to time, turns, and drawing.
Now question @vyolynce@nullzone@anyone with tournament procedure knowledge: round 4 when the judge yelled out time, my opponent was playing a creature in his main phase 2. When my turn started, I figured I would be turn 1 of the 5 turns, while my opponent said "no, I ended my turn before the judge yelled time, this is turn 0." So we both have a different interpretation of the reality of things, so I ask him if he'd like to call a judge. "Fine, if you have to make a big deal about things," which I thought was a really poor attitude to have, since you can never really hurt a situation by asking a judge. So I ask him what he'd like to do, and he goes "fine, it's turn 1." We get to turn 5, it's presumably a draw, and he goes "no, I really should've gotten another attack phase" (he thought he could kill me and get the match win). So I say again, "shall we call a judge now then?" and he agrees, and the judge comes over. We relate the situation, the judge asks if it matters, my opponent thinks so (it doesn't, but I think he wants the satisfaction of the ruling at this point?) so the judge rules thusly: "how we do things here is if someone is finishing their turn as turns are called, we don't count it as active player's turn (turn 0) until the next turn starts, and then it's turns 0-5 (both players get 3 turns, basically)." This runs counter to my understanding, which was "active player finishes the turn, then 5 more turns."
My question is basically this "is this a kosher ruling?"
I didn't even mind the ruling, since the judge was very polite about it, but my opponent's attitude really put me off and made me not want to play Magic anymore.
So did not have a super great time at the Pre-release. Picked Jeskai, built a janky Jeskai deck with a lot of Manifest spells to be creatures and trigger Prowess, but no real reach or path to victory. So first two rounds go to time, then turns, and are draws. Round 3 my opponent gets stuck on two lands and I finally get a win, and then Round 4 I'm back to going to time, turns, and drawing.
Now question @vyolynce@nullzone@anyone with tournament procedure knowledge: round 4 when the judge yelled out time, my opponent was playing a creature in his main phase 2. When my turn started, I figured I would be turn 1 of the 5 turns, while my opponent said "no, I ended my turn before the judge yelled time, this is turn 0." So we both have a different interpretation of the reality of things, so I ask him if he'd like to call a judge. "Fine, if you have to make a big deal about things," which I thought was a really poor attitude to have, since you can never really hurt a situation by asking a judge. So I ask him what he'd like to do, and he goes "fine, it's turn 1." We get to turn 5, it's presumably a draw, and he goes "no, I really should've gotten another attack phase" (he thought he could kill me and get the match win). So I say again, "shall we call a judge now then?" and he agrees, and the judge comes over. We relate the situation, the judge asks if it matters, my opponent thinks so (it doesn't, but I think he wants the satisfaction of the ruling at this point?) so the judge rules thusly: "how we do things here is if someone is finishing their turn as turns are called, we don't count it as active player's turn (turn 0) until the next turn starts, and then it's turns 0-5 (both players get 3 turns, basically)." This runs counter to my understanding, which was "active player finishes the turn, then 5 more turns."
My question is basically this "is this a kosher ruling?"
I didn't even mind the ruling, since the judge was very polite about it, but my opponent's attitude really put me off and made me not want to play Magic anymore.
It's absolutely active player finishes turn, then five more turns. If he hadn't indicated he was passing the turn, AND cleared up any end of turn effects, your turn should have been turn 1. If this somehow coincided exactly with time, I would say your turn should count as turn 1 anyways unless you can begun resolving your untap/upkeep effects (because lots of people do these out of order, myself included at times), but this is basically going to be a call for the judge to make (call them over immediately though, if they aren't already there - at the store I go to people tend to gather around the last matches running to watch, and several regulars are judges anyways).
I didn't even mind the ruling, since the judge was very polite about it, but my opponent's attitude really put me off and made me not want to play Magic anymore.
In my experience most Magic players are pleasant, but there are a few who, well, are not. And different stores attract different crowds, so if you find one store has a number of unpleasant/unsportsmanlike people, you might want to try playing somewhere else.
I didn't even mind the ruling, since the judge was very polite about it, but my opponent's attitude really put me off and made me not want to play Magic anymore.
In my experience most Magic players are pleasant, but there are a few who, well, are not. And different stores attract different crowds, so if you find one store has a number of unpleasant/unsportsmanlike people, you might want to try playing somewhere else.
Jerks on MTGO crack me up. What do they hope to gain? I just report them. How is it worth a chance of losing your account or getting it suspended?
My favorite trolls are dumb moment came in a recent LSV cube video. LSV was comboing off for the win, and the guy snapped at him in chat - something like "have fun waiting, ***" - and proceeded to not pass priority to let the timer run out.
A) you are trolling LSV. A hall of famer. Are you nuts?
LSV makes tons of videos, there's a good chance 1000s of people are going to see your temper tantrum.
While its not at all your fault, it does help to clarify the turn 0/1 thing as soon as time is called. Just like, when the store employee calls time, just clarify to your opponent that it is currently turn 0, and next will be turn 1.
If your opponent knew this store did things that way, he should have been the one to speak up. But it is possible he thought that his store was the "normal way" things are done and he didn't need to say anything. Or maybe he absolutely knew it wasn't normal and was trying to squeeze a win out of you not acting normally or scooping on your version of turn 5. Either way he sounds like a dick
Echoing all the "active player when time is called is turn 0" responses. When I call time that is my exact statement: "active player finish your turn, then five additional turns."
Your opponent was not only a jerk, but a jerk at a prerelease. These events are supposed to be FUN, and are run at the loosest REL possible.
@silence1186 The mechanically correct answer is, as Vyolynce said, active player finish turn, then 5 more turns in total. In most cases, I draw the line at untapping. If you haven't untapped yet when time is called, it's still your opponent's turn. However, at a prerelease, when players aren't sure/disagree on whose turn is turn 0 (typically because people are trying to rush through actions since they know they're running out of time), and especially if the players/board state indicate it isn't particularly likely to matter, I'm totally okay with just "pushing back" turn 0 like you're describing. It's not likely to harm tournament procedure and it saves either player from feeling like they've been screwed out of a turn they thought they'd have.
Players shouldn't try to discourage their opponent from calling a judge, either. That's dickish and is a red flag to me that the guy knew he was being unfair.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
+5
Options
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
@silence1186 The mechanically correct answer is, as Vyolynce said, active player finish turn, then 5 more turns in total. In most cases, I draw the line at untapping. If you haven't untapped yet when time is called, it's still your opponent's turn. However, at a prerelease, when players aren't sure/disagree on whose turn is turn 0 (typically because people are trying to rush through actions since they know they're running out of time), and especially if the players/board state indicate it isn't particularly likely to matter, I'm totally okay with just "pushing back" turn 0 like you're describing. It's not likely to harm tournament procedure and it saves either player from feeling like they've been screwed out of a turn they thought they'd have.
Yeah, the main point of contention was whose turn it was when time was called, with each of us having a differing opinion, and the judge couldn't really have an opinion, since he wasn't there at the time (he called it from across the room). I didn't mind the outcome (it was going to be a draw either way) but the whole way it was handled basically made me definitely never want to go back to that store, and probably stop playing Magic period.
I don't need to get sick with anxiety from confronting people with bad attitudes.
In the future if you come into any situation where your opponent tries to pass off calling a judge, snap call that judge. Your job is to play magic, and it's the judge's job to clean up rules questions, rules discrepancies, and broken magic.
Echoing comments that this guy probably knew he was in the wrong.
I'm looking to build a commander deck using Daxos of Meletis as the commander. Trying to base it around comboing off his second talent with the goal of just absolute hilarity. And I'd like it to be a soldier tribe deck as best as possible. Card ideas?
I'm looking to build a commander deck using Daxos of Meletis as the commander. Trying to base it around comboing off his second talent with the goal of just absolute hilarity. And I'd like it to be a soldier tribe deck as best as possible. Card ideas?
If I had a Daxos of Meletis deck I would just pack it full of tricks to get Daxos through and load it up with buttloads of colorless mana to cast stuff.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
+1
Options
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
If I had a Daxos of Meletis deck I would just pack it full of tricks to get Daxos through and load it up with buttloads of colorless mana to cast stuff.
A friend of mine played a Hero's Blade deck at the open, with Daxos, Shu-Yun, and Zurgo (with the rest of the UW heroic trappings like Gods Willing/Stubborn Denial/Aqueous Form). It wasn't super consistent, but it was super awesome when it went off a la Zurgo + Hero's Blade + Temur Battle Rage.
Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Don't forget Strionic Resonator from M14 to trigger Daxos another time each turn. Though if you have the mana and can untap it, you can do it as many times as you want.
0
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Giving him double strike with Shu-Yun is also a fun trick.
Two acquaintances of mine are undergoing or about to start HRT — one in each direction — so the topic has kind of been on my mind lately. WotC certainly has been making some bold flavor choices of late with the Guardians of Meletis, Ashiok, and now Alesha.
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
They're doing a good job, IMO. It's slow going, but overdue, and they're not shy about their intentions to increase diversity in representation. Khans has been a fine block in that regard so far, with female khans (not sporting boobplate either) and now Alesha. I appreciate that while the story is about her finding her identity, her gender is only a part of that journey and doesn't define her as a character. She was cool before we knew she was trans, and now we just know more about who she is. All in all it seems smoothly done, and I'm looking forward to more of Alesha and other diverse characters.
Is 38 lands too much for an EDH deck? I'm running a few mock hands on deckstats.net and I'm either getting mana flooded or no mana at all. I'm building an artifact EDH deck
So I played a little bit of Magic way back in the day. I had a handful of revised, 5th edition, Mirage cards. After PAX:South, I may have gone out and picked up a few more boosters. How screwed am I?
Also, are there better sites for deck management? I have a few on mtgvault, but I see some in here using deckstats, any reason to use one over the other?
So I played a little bit of Magic way back in the day. I had a handful of revised, 5th edition, Mirage cards. After PAX:South, I may have gone out and picked up a few more boosters. How screwed am I?
Also, are there better sites for deck management? I have a few on mtgvault, but I see some in here using deckstats, any reason to use one over the other?
I like deckstats simply because of the deck building program and that when you click on a card it brings up a pop window that links to the Gatherer which is a handy tool for the official rules for all of Magic's cards
So I played a little bit of Magic way back in the day. I had a handful of revised, 5th edition, Mirage cards. After PAX:South, I may have gone out and picked up a few more boosters. How screwed am I?
Also, are there better sites for deck management? I have a few on mtgvault, but I see some in here using deckstats, any reason to use one over the other?
Do folks in here tend to play MTG:Online? I'm planning on checking out my local game store to get beat in person, but if I was looking to lose online, would that be the route to go?
Do folks in here tend to play MTG:Online? I'm planning on checking out my local game store to get beat in person, but if I was looking to lose online, would that be the route to go?
Yes, but prepare to lose a lot of money in addition to your pride.
So I played a little bit of Magic way back in the day. I had a handful of revised, 5th edition, Mirage cards. After PAX:South, I may have gone out and picked up a few more boosters. How screwed am I?
Also, are there better sites for deck management? I have a few on mtgvault, but I see some in here using deckstats, any reason to use one over the other?
If you want a mobile app, i can definitely recommend decked builder. It's on iOS and Android and it's been super useful, especially if you have friends you talk to who also have the app. You can just text them your decklist/send it over twitter/upload it to the decked builder site.
Do folks in here tend to play MTG:Online? I'm planning on checking out my local game store to get beat in person, but if I was looking to lose online, would that be the route to go?
It's difficult to play MTGO without spending money. Possible, but difficult. So if you're looking to play MTGO in addition to playing in person you're looking at a split investment.
@APODionysus is probably our local expert on getting into MTGO on a budget.
Posts
There are a few abilities which cause spells to be cast, but these will always include the word "cast" in the ability. E.g. Isochron Scepter, flashback cards (as mentioned previously).
Although depending on the version of printing, it might say "play" instead. Nowadays the only time they use "play" is if lands are an option on the effect.
Now question @vyolynce @nullzone @anyone with tournament procedure knowledge: round 4 when the judge yelled out time, my opponent was playing a creature in his main phase 2. When my turn started, I figured I would be turn 1 of the 5 turns, while my opponent said "no, I ended my turn before the judge yelled time, this is turn 0." So we both have a different interpretation of the reality of things, so I ask him if he'd like to call a judge. "Fine, if you have to make a big deal about things," which I thought was a really poor attitude to have, since you can never really hurt a situation by asking a judge. So I ask him what he'd like to do, and he goes "fine, it's turn 1." We get to turn 5, it's presumably a draw, and he goes "no, I really should've gotten another attack phase" (he thought he could kill me and get the match win). So I say again, "shall we call a judge now then?" and he agrees, and the judge comes over. We relate the situation, the judge asks if it matters, my opponent thinks so (it doesn't, but I think he wants the satisfaction of the ruling at this point?) so the judge rules thusly: "how we do things here is if someone is finishing their turn as turns are called, we don't count it as active player's turn (turn 0) until the next turn starts, and then it's turns 0-5 (both players get 3 turns, basically)." This runs counter to my understanding, which was "active player finishes the turn, then 5 more turns."
My question is basically this "is this a kosher ruling?"
I didn't even mind the ruling, since the judge was very polite about it, but my opponent's attitude really put me off and made me not want to play Magic anymore.
It's absolutely active player finishes turn, then five more turns. If he hadn't indicated he was passing the turn, AND cleared up any end of turn effects, your turn should have been turn 1. If this somehow coincided exactly with time, I would say your turn should count as turn 1 anyways unless you can begun resolving your untap/upkeep effects (because lots of people do these out of order, myself included at times), but this is basically going to be a call for the judge to make (call them over immediately though, if they aren't already there - at the store I go to people tend to gather around the last matches running to watch, and several regulars are judges anyways).
And yes, that opponent was being a dick.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
In my experience most Magic players are pleasant, but there are a few who, well, are not. And different stores attract different crowds, so if you find one store has a number of unpleasant/unsportsmanlike people, you might want to try playing somewhere else.
Jerks on MTGO crack me up. What do they hope to gain? I just report them. How is it worth a chance of losing your account or getting it suspended?
My favorite trolls are dumb moment came in a recent LSV cube video. LSV was comboing off for the win, and the guy snapped at him in chat - something like "have fun waiting, ***" - and proceeded to not pass priority to let the timer run out.
A) you are trolling LSV. A hall of famer. Are you nuts?
LSV makes tons of videos, there's a good chance 1000s of people are going to see your temper tantrum.
C) LSV reported you to boot. So there's that too!
So, so dumb
If your opponent knew this store did things that way, he should have been the one to speak up. But it is possible he thought that his store was the "normal way" things are done and he didn't need to say anything. Or maybe he absolutely knew it wasn't normal and was trying to squeeze a win out of you not acting normally or scooping on your version of turn 5. Either way he sounds like a dick
Your opponent was not only a jerk, but a jerk at a prerelease. These events are supposed to be FUN, and are run at the loosest REL possible.
TLDR:
Modern — Cruise, Dig, and Pod banned; Golgari Grave-Troll unbanned
Legacy — Cruise banned; Worldgorger Dragon unbanned
Vintage — Cruise restricted; Gifts unrestricted
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yeah, the main point of contention was whose turn it was when time was called, with each of us having a differing opinion, and the judge couldn't really have an opinion, since he wasn't there at the time (he called it from across the room). I didn't mind the outcome (it was going to be a draw either way) but the whole way it was handled basically made me definitely never want to go back to that store, and probably stop playing Magic period.
I don't need to get sick with anxiety from confronting people with bad attitudes.
I appreciate everyone's responses.
Echoing comments that this guy probably knew he was in the wrong.
Mmmmm....toasty.
Mmmmm....toasty.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=43625
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152623
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=captain+of+the+watch
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?&multiverseid=135258
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189923
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190194
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222772
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=40131
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152878
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153012
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222773
Sorry if its a lot, but I have a soldier deck myself and it's fun to get carried away
Trading | SwagBucks | Twitter | Last.FM | Jack Threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacrdnOUBnU
That's normal. The land slots in Fate Reforged has either a lifegain land (common) or a fetch (rare).
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
A friend of mine played a Hero's Blade deck at the open, with Daxos, Shu-Yun, and Zurgo (with the rest of the UW heroic trappings like Gods Willing/Stubborn Denial/Aqueous Form). It wasn't super consistent, but it was super awesome when it went off a la Zurgo + Hero's Blade + Temur Battle Rage.
what are ur guys opinion on this deck im makin?
Trading | SwagBucks | Twitter | Last.FM | Jack Threads
Do I sell it or something?
Also stop trying to make fetch happen.
Its not going to happen.
only got to 8 mana once during all my games.
Trading | SwagBucks | Twitter | Last.FM | Jack Threads
Also, are there better sites for deck management? I have a few on mtgvault, but I see some in here using deckstats, any reason to use one over the other?
I like deckstats simply because of the deck building program and that when you click on a card it brings up a pop window that links to the Gatherer which is a handy tool for the official rules for all of Magic's cards
Trading | SwagBucks | Twitter | Last.FM | Jack Threads
Yes, but prepare to lose a lot of money in addition to your pride.
If you want a mobile app, i can definitely recommend decked builder. It's on iOS and Android and it's been super useful, especially if you have friends you talk to who also have the app. You can just text them your decklist/send it over twitter/upload it to the decked builder site.
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
It's difficult to play MTGO without spending money. Possible, but difficult. So if you're looking to play MTGO in addition to playing in person you're looking at a split investment.
@APODionysus is probably our local expert on getting into MTGO on a budget.