After abandoning Xillia 2 halfway through, I discovered I really don't care about Tales games anymore. And if gouging their audience is the only idea they have for doing something new, then I'm definitely out.
Since I waxed nostalgic this week with FFVII, this Zestria fiasco just recounts what a really great job they did with their two principal heroines in that game.
On paper it could have been disastrous; market the first heroine for over a year, then decide to have her killed off and replaced with the "real" heroine halfway through while also making her the default choice in the love triangle. Giving her a more "visually appealing" design could have also added insult to injury.
But they made it work, because they took a lot of care to make sure both heroines started off strong. Even better, they didn't make them into catty rivals, instead having them form their own friendship in spite of the fact they're after the same guy. It's one of the prime examples of why FFVII is remembered so fondly; they took a lot of care with even the most basic concepts, to the point that they almost feel like subversions.
Even Cloud still holds up, as I learned during the recent discussion. We've had a decade of imitators and very few hold a candle to how he was portrayed originally.
Tales games still occasionally have really incredible characters now and then, plus I love the art style a lot. But the combat does nothing for me and I am bad at it.
This thing they are doing now is some stunning bullshit though, wow
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
Tales games still occasionally have really incredible characters now and then, plus I love the art style a lot. But the combat does nothing for me and I am bad at it.
This thing they are doing now is some stunning bullshit though, wow
Not really. Namco as a whole has been ungodly terrible with their RPG franchises.
See the way they hijacked Xenosaga with the second episode, cutting the funding by like 1/3 and meddling with the story and character designs (this even applies to the localized version where they replace over half the voice actors for no reason whatsoever). Then they proceed to chop the planned six episodes into three due to the poor response.
For all the bitching I've given Square, even they've never fucked over their games the way Namco has.
Xenosaga II is a fucking travesty. It's what happens when you fire the lead writer on a six-part series and then decide you can do it better by committee.
It's a miracle that Ep. III is such a good game... terrible Mr. Clean Was Here blood censorship hilarity aside.
Since that was also revisited recently, I would state that it's actually held up better.
They essentially take the concept from FFVII that wasn't entirely fleshed out (your main party isn't as competent as previous FF heroes) and rolled with it in full force in this game.
The party in FFVIII are complete morons and I love the game for it. It's like Persona 4 before Persona 4 made it a thing.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I pretty much play Tales games because I like the combat. The plots themselves I usually find entertaining but nothing to write home about.
That heroine situation sounds really shitty though. Especially since she seemed more interesting than the hero who looks like another overly optimistic bonehead.
In fairness, if Xenogears hadn't lost most of it's budget it probably woulda been pretty good.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I have a great affection for Xenogears because it came out when I was a huge Eva fan and it hit all the right notes. Also it has one of my favorite video game relationships.
Xenosaga I thought the first was average, second sucked and the third I never got around to playing because of the second one.
xenogears is pretty good, disc 2 aside (I liked disc 2 personally). probably should replay it one of these days
my sister got me the ds version of chrono trigger (which I haven't played since the snes release), almost beat everything in a first clear of the game while I was stuck out in texas for a few days. do I bother checking out the DS exclusive stuff or is it not worth the trouble?
i think it's pretty dumb that they planned on making xenosaga a six game series from the start
maybe like
focus on making one compelling game first
it was based on preexisting material
also 1 and 3 were both good, it was just 2 that was a boring heap
3 was really good
Wasn't it the unused Xenogears Episode 1 material?
nah
the way it was supposed to be was every 2 parts were a different story
I think gears was like part 4? on the timeline
but yeah, 1-3 were actually just supposed to be two parts, but they realized while making part 2 that it was just too ambitious and huge in scope so they scrapped that idea
Gears was Episode 5 or 6. I remember reading that Xenogears Episode 1 was supposed to be the catastrophe that happened to set up the opening to the game that Square made.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Gears was Episode 5 or 6. I remember reading that Xenogears Episode 1 was supposed to be the catastrophe that happened to set up the opening to the game that Square made.
mightve been 5, but yeah
the whole thing about completely making A Complete Works into games was scraped because holy shit it would've taken like a decade and long passed into irrelevance
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
instead they made a pretty decent jurp, a fucking boring one and one of the best jurps on the ps2
not bad
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
I do really like Xenogears plot as a whole though.
The backstory of how people got to and populated the planet in Xenogears is crazy pants in the best way.
if you go by xenogears, gears was part 5, the stuff with krellian/sophia/bart's ancestor and stuff was part 4, and then the older lives even further back probably
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Will do, but it'll have to wait until I'm off work. Steam's blocked here.
Every import/Japanese impression I hear about Zestiria makes it sound like a rushed product and not a great game.
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If it weren't for Milla and Jude in Xillia 1, I would have quit out of boredom.
On paper it could have been disastrous; market the first heroine for over a year, then decide to have her killed off and replaced with the "real" heroine halfway through while also making her the default choice in the love triangle. Giving her a more "visually appealing" design could have also added insult to injury.
But they made it work, because they took a lot of care to make sure both heroines started off strong. Even better, they didn't make them into catty rivals, instead having them form their own friendship in spite of the fact they're after the same guy. It's one of the prime examples of why FFVII is remembered so fondly; they took a lot of care with even the most basic concepts, to the point that they almost feel like subversions.
Even Cloud still holds up, as I learned during the recent discussion. We've had a decade of imitators and very few hold a candle to how he was portrayed originally.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
This thing they are doing now is some stunning bullshit though, wow
Not really. Namco as a whole has been ungodly terrible with their RPG franchises.
See the way they hijacked Xenosaga with the second episode, cutting the funding by like 1/3 and meddling with the story and character designs (this even applies to the localized version where they replace over half the voice actors for no reason whatsoever). Then they proceed to chop the planned six episodes into three due to the poor response.
For all the bitching I've given Square, even they've never fucked over their games the way Namco has.
Parasite Eve and FFXII notwithstanding.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
It's a miracle that Ep. III is such a good game... terrible Mr. Clean Was Here blood censorship hilarity aside.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Since that was also revisited recently, I would state that it's actually held up better.
They essentially take the concept from FFVII that wasn't entirely fleshed out (your main party isn't as competent as previous FF heroes) and rolled with it in full force in this game.
The party in FFVIII are complete morons and I love the game for it. It's like Persona 4 before Persona 4 made it a thing.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
That heroine situation sounds really shitty though. Especially since she seemed more interesting than the hero who looks like another overly optimistic bonehead.
I remember when they were bragging about the 8 hours of cutscenes in the first game.
Yeah, that's only a good thing if your dialogue is excellent instead of, uh, boilerplate.
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In fairness, if Xenogears hadn't lost most of it's budget it probably woulda been pretty good.
Xenosaga I thought the first was average, second sucked and the third I never got around to playing because of the second one.
my sister got me the ds version of chrono trigger (which I haven't played since the snes release), almost beat everything in a first clear of the game while I was stuck out in texas for a few days. do I bother checking out the DS exclusive stuff or is it not worth the trouble?
I guess if you like Chrono Cross and want to see some stuff tying the two games together it could be worth it.
As it was I though the narration of events was well written and interesting.
fucking WHAT
yeah, I actually did not mind and kinda liked the way disk 2 was handled
maybe like
focus on making one compelling game first
Your never gonna see a Lalafell ninja used in official promo materials I'll tell you that right now
it was based on preexisting material
also 1 and 3 were both good, it was just 2 that was a boring heap
3 was really good
because them ninjas ARE TOO GOOD TO BE SEEN
Wasn't it the unused Xenogears Episode 1 material?
nah
the way it was supposed to be was every 2 parts were a different story
I think gears was like part 4? on the timeline
but yeah, 1-3 were actually just supposed to be two parts, but they realized while making part 2 that it was just too ambitious and huge in scope so they scrapped that idea
mightve been 5, but yeah
the whole thing about completely making A Complete Works into games was scraped because holy shit it would've taken like a decade and long passed into irrelevance
not bad
The backstory of how people got to and populated the planet in Xenogears is crazy pants in the best way.