ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
I got a good game in last weekend with @Dr_Keenbean. I only won because we were playing a too small board and my Desolator got into all his dudes near the end.
I think most people at this point are just relying on the summary printouts from FFOR
I think you're right.
So my main table top game is Warmachine/Hordes.
In an effort to get tempt some WM/H players to DZC, I was trying to remember what DZC offers that WM/H doesn't have.
Since I haven't played in a while, I ask you guys if you have played both, what comparisons would you make between the 2 systems. If you haven't played WM/H, what are the high points of DZC?
I could come up with:
Cool Models
Once you get the rules they are pretty simple, so the game can be fast.
Less combos, more positioning will help yo win.
Dzc you can take what people will call a weak list and still do well as long as your are focusing on the objectives at the time. Where as in Warmahordes if you don't take the best of X at all time you will lost 9 times out of 10.
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Played a game of Dropzone Commander recently. It's been some time since I got a game in before that. My opponents models had a lot of paint on them compared to mine. So I decided to put my PHR on the painting table.
They are not done yet. My main game is Warmachine/Hordes. I enjoy painting these models more. Maybe they're smaller, maybe I like painting vehicles instead of Trolls. Here we go.
The orange aliens, Shaltari, have their own rules for teleporting around instead of using dropships like everyone else. I've seen the comparison made to a cross between Eldar and Tau in 40K. Shaltari have a bit of a reputation since they tend to win more tournaments than other factions.
The mad max faction, Resistance, rely more on infantry, and use hovercraft instead of dropships for many of their units. There are several paths you can take in building an army for them.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Orange pointy aliens are hyper mobile in weird ways thanks to their gates (as opposed to hyper mobile into your fave like the scourge), and can be surprisingly tough.
Mad Max humans, I'm not sure about, but they seem to be a pretty swarm-y army.
Shaltari are highly mobile with middle of the road to high end dmg. We dont have to take dedicated transports for our units, we just pick X number of gates and than in the beginning of the game have to activate at least 1 gate with a unit, after your done you can activate 0 gates or more with each activation depending on what you want to do. We are the only faction to have a rollable shield save which negates a hit on a roll of 5+ there is a specific unit that can buff this to a 4+. Most of our weapons are energy 9, which is good but not awesome. Though if we fail our armor save we tend to get blown up easily cause our armor is generally lower than everyone else
The main reason shaltari do well in tournaments is because we get in, get the objective and leave faster than everyone else. I can have a unit of mans drop into a building on turn one, find it on turn 2 and enter the gate which then carries the objective off the table.
Resistance can be very good, they have some of the best mobile infantry in the game with their motorcycle riding guys who can enter buildings most of the "mad max" stuff doesn't have counter measures so it means everyone can shoot you from their table edge. Though this is negated by mobility they are also capable of coming on the board and disembarking from their hovercraft and firing in the same turn. Where as everyone else if you disembark / de materialize from your transport you can't shoot. Resistance also tends to bring a pile of shots / guns to the table. The more heavily armored version that have Hannibals etc are tough as nails , the Hannibal their basic line tank has 2 wounds and 2 heavy hitting shots + a machine gun to fire upon units in buildings etc. I would suggest mixing the 2 factions of resistance because they also have access to Cyclops helicopters which are some of the best flyers in the game.
Do you want high mobility , decent dmg . Low armor or do you want Great dmg, decent mobility , with the downside of almost everyone being able to shoot you turn with , cause your not carrying countermeasures ?
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
What's fucked up about DZC is that all the factions sound fun/look rad. There isn't a single one I'm not interested in playing.
Played an intro game last night and, phew, this sure is fairly heavy tactical game that's all about the deployment and positioning. Maximising movement via dropship redeployment and the whole matryoshka doll unit stacking takes a bit of getting your head around as well.
Going from 'Woo! Shot him out the sky before he could liberate that objective!' to watching the APC pop out of the burning dropship wreckage 3" on, which also gets destroyed in the crash but poops its troops 3" on again, who now survive due to a lucky dice roll and nip off the map. That was quite a thing.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
Both integrated ground combat, and that signal radius spiking seems sexy as hell.
So yeah. Consider yourself damned to a sexy, sexy hell.
[edit]
Just talk of submarine combat as as model for space combat is something I love to hear.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
At NOVA Simon from Hawk Wargames was there and I had him tell me about some of the DFC stuff and when he got to the scan and signature ranges I literally handed him my wallet.
Another thing interesting about DFC is the idea of it being focused on orbital battles.
It reminds me of a Three Moves Ahead podcast where someone was describing their WW2 air combat table top game that instead of of top down view looked in on the battle from the side. Even though it sounds odd, it actually makes a lot of sense because, from WW2 on, altitude is much more important than turning.
If it turns out that you can slip a troop ship in behind a ship that's burning up in the atmosphere because the fireball is overwhelming all of the enemies sensors then, well, I'd like to think I would have the presence of mind to keep my pants on but you never know.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty sure I remember them saying in the video that only some ships can actually function in atmosphere and once they're in there, they're super hard to target.
I just want them to start spilling on Shaltari and PHR because you know their shit is gonna be bananas.
ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
edited September 2015
I need to get some practice games in with Shaltari, but if their fleets are anything like their ground game sounds, I might be in for them and Scourge.
Extreaminatus on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
It's true. He also dropped his pants to show how truly excited he was.
There's a reason why I skipped NoVa this year...
It was because I couldn't afford to hand my wallet to anyone
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I had been setting aside a few $$ every month for the last year to budget for NOVA and I will do so again this year because it worked out swimmingly. I actually clocked in under budget even with my hotel room, valet, several trips to Shake Shack, and numerous purchases of minis and related goods.
So what's NOVA like? I'm kind of thinking of going to a convention next year and about the only things I know is that GenCon seems way too crowded and Historicon is right in the middle of my family's beach vacation.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
NOVA is super rad. It's pretty low key with lots of super cool people hanging around and a charity lounge where @Dr_Keenbean spends all his time.
Next year we might actually play some games.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
It's great. This year was a huge increase in stuff to do over last year and I was very impressed last year.
They have lots of tournaments and stuff this year they had: 40k, AoS/WHFB, LOTR, Warmahordes, X-Wing, Malifaux, Infinity, DZC, Wrath of Kings, Dark Age, and Magic (I may be missing some). A lot offered both competitive and narrative flavors. Someone was running a LOTR Helm's Deep scenario that anyone could jump in at one point but it unfortunately conflicted with Shake Shack time.
There is also open gaming in the various halls available 24 hours a day. You can play whenever just so long as it doesn't interfere with the tournaments.
There's a bunch of seminars about painting, weathering, sculpting. The dudes from Massive Voodoo were there giving classes which sadly I did not attend but those guys were fun to drink with. Justin McCoy from Secret Weapon Minis has been there at least the last 2 years.
Folks from FFG, Hawk Wargames, and Corvus Belli and probably others did Q&A stuff in the lounge.
There are vendors selling stuff and demo games. Last year there were like 2 or 3 demos. This year I think I counted 11. They run raffles to get entire armies with custom KR Multicase bags and there's also a silent auction to win models and such. I think something like 95% of the money spent on those and in the lounge on booze goes to charity.
Also it's within walking distance to the DC metro.
Crystal City is pretty much the convention location epicenter for the area, so the hotel it's held in is excellent, there are multiple, fine adjacent hotels if you want to shop around or the Hyatt is full.
I'm a little bummed because although I should have plenty of money next year, I'm no longer going to be local.
Do we know how fighters will be represented in DFC? It seems they would be awfully small to make models of but I can't really see Hawk Games putting counters in their game.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I was told that stuff like torpedoes and fighters were going to be in there but he didn't really elaborate. I'm not ever sure how they'd model them since their big on the whole true-scale thing where everything actually fits inside the things that would carry it.
I have the only DFC model that's available currently and the bays where the condor dropships go are just dots and I would assume fighters would be smaller.
I'm confident they'll handle it well. They have a good track record.
Last night I was discussing this game with my Warhammer my Kings of War buddy who has decided that Kickstarting games or minis is a bad idea because who knows what you'll be into when the stuff you backed for eventually shows up. He's not wrong.
His particular argument against DFC was that he'd rather take up X-Wing just because of the player base.
I'm trying to decide if that's an argument against getting into DFC or an argument to get at least two fleets.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
edited October 2015
I agree that kickstarting mini games is generally a bad idea but in most cases you're paying to make an idea happen with very little work already complete. That is a recipe for pissed off backers and broken promises.
Hawk Wargames doesn't need your money to release their game, they only need it to buy plastic molds for the already-drafted designs to have cheap models right out of the gate. They don't want another 2 years of selling resin before they can offer inexpensive starters.
Edit: and x-wing instead of DFC is like saying you'd rather play necromunda instead of epic. Two extremely different games and really you should be playing both. :P
Yeah, from a company's perspective Kickstarter is a perfect way to jump start plastics. Both Reaper and Mantic have done things with KS that would have been impossible otherwise.
And I wouldn't hesitate to buy Hawk's stuff sight unseen the way that I would hesitate to buy a Mantic model before I knew if was one of their duds. In other words, as a potential backer, Hawk's evident perfectionism is a very attractive characteristic.
It only comes down to the time lag and also the fact that I try to buy what I can from the store we play at because normally I end up buying lots of minis from tiny little companies that the store can't even special order.
We'll see. My record for resisting temptation on KS isn't especially good.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Posts
I think you're right.
So my main table top game is Warmachine/Hordes.
In an effort to get tempt some WM/H players to DZC, I was trying to remember what DZC offers that WM/H doesn't have.
Since I haven't played in a while, I ask you guys if you have played both, what comparisons would you make between the 2 systems. If you haven't played WM/H, what are the high points of DZC?
I could come up with:
Cool Models
Once you get the rules they are pretty simple, so the game can be fast.
Less combos, more positioning will help yo win.
Also the greater variety in unit types.
Played a game of Dropzone Commander recently. It's been some time since I got a game in before that. My opponents models had a lot of paint on them compared to mine. So I decided to put my PHR on the painting table.
They are not done yet. My main game is Warmachine/Hordes. I enjoy painting these models more. Maybe they're smaller, maybe I like painting vehicles instead of Trolls. Here we go.
The two factions 'free' if I want to be a unique flower are the orange pointy aliens and the Mad Max humans.
What's the skinny on how those two factions play compared to the others?
The mad max faction, Resistance, rely more on infantry, and use hovercraft instead of dropships for many of their units. There are several paths you can take in building an army for them.
Mad Max humans, I'm not sure about, but they seem to be a pretty swarm-y army.
The main reason shaltari do well in tournaments is because we get in, get the objective and leave faster than everyone else. I can have a unit of mans drop into a building on turn one, find it on turn 2 and enter the gate which then carries the objective off the table.
Resistance can be very good, they have some of the best mobile infantry in the game with their motorcycle riding guys who can enter buildings most of the "mad max" stuff doesn't have counter measures so it means everyone can shoot you from their table edge. Though this is negated by mobility they are also capable of coming on the board and disembarking from their hovercraft and firing in the same turn. Where as everyone else if you disembark / de materialize from your transport you can't shoot. Resistance also tends to bring a pile of shots / guns to the table. The more heavily armored version that have Hannibals etc are tough as nails , the Hannibal their basic line tank has 2 wounds and 2 heavy hitting shots + a machine gun to fire upon units in buildings etc. I would suggest mixing the 2 factions of resistance because they also have access to Cyclops helicopters which are some of the best flyers in the game.
Do you want high mobility , decent dmg . Low armor or do you want Great dmg, decent mobility , with the downside of almost everyone being able to shoot you turn with , cause your not carrying countermeasures ?
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Good news! Starters for all sides but the Resistance are available for around $50 (the Resistance is not available in plastic, so they're $90)
Going from 'Woo! Shot him out the sky before he could liberate that objective!' to watching the APC pop out of the burning dropship wreckage 3" on, which also gets destroyed in the crash but poops its troops 3" on again, who now survive due to a lucky dice roll and nip off the map. That was quite a thing.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Damn you to hell.
Both integrated ground combat, and that signal radius spiking seems sexy as hell.
So yeah. Consider yourself damned to a sexy, sexy hell.
[edit]
Just talk of submarine combat as as model for space combat is something I love to hear.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
I've already got loads of stuff to paint.
But man. Man.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
It reminds me of a Three Moves Ahead podcast where someone was describing their WW2 air combat table top game that instead of of top down view looked in on the battle from the side. Even though it sounds odd, it actually makes a lot of sense because, from WW2 on, altitude is much more important than turning.
If it turns out that you can slip a troop ship in behind a ship that's burning up in the atmosphere because the fireball is overwhelming all of the enemies sensors then, well, I'd like to think I would have the presence of mind to keep my pants on but you never know.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I just want them to start spilling on Shaltari and PHR because you know their shit is gonna be bananas.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
There's a reason why I skipped NoVa this year...
My pants stayed on outside of my hotel room.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
So I can afford all the sweet, sweet Dropzone goodness.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Next year we might actually play some games.
They have lots of tournaments and stuff this year they had: 40k, AoS/WHFB, LOTR, Warmahordes, X-Wing, Malifaux, Infinity, DZC, Wrath of Kings, Dark Age, and Magic (I may be missing some). A lot offered both competitive and narrative flavors. Someone was running a LOTR Helm's Deep scenario that anyone could jump in at one point but it unfortunately conflicted with Shake Shack time.
There is also open gaming in the various halls available 24 hours a day. You can play whenever just so long as it doesn't interfere with the tournaments.
There's a bunch of seminars about painting, weathering, sculpting. The dudes from Massive Voodoo were there giving classes which sadly I did not attend but those guys were fun to drink with. Justin McCoy from Secret Weapon Minis has been there at least the last 2 years.
Folks from FFG, Hawk Wargames, and Corvus Belli and probably others did Q&A stuff in the lounge.
There are vendors selling stuff and demo games. Last year there were like 2 or 3 demos. This year I think I counted 11. They run raffles to get entire armies with custom KR Multicase bags and there's also a silent auction to win models and such. I think something like 95% of the money spent on those and in the lounge on booze goes to charity.
Also it's within walking distance to the DC metro.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I intend to play in the DZC tournament next year assuming there is one. But it's also 11+ months out so who knows.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Hopefully next year.
Crystal City is pretty much the convention location epicenter for the area, so the hotel it's held in is excellent, there are multiple, fine adjacent hotels if you want to shop around or the Hyatt is full.
I'm a little bummed because although I should have plenty of money next year, I'm no longer going to be local.
That, and I just sold Extreminatus all of my DZC.
Always something...
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I have the only DFC model that's available currently and the bays where the condor dropships go are just dots and I would assume fighters would be smaller.
I'm confident they'll handle it well. They have a good track record.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
His particular argument against DFC was that he'd rather take up X-Wing just because of the player base.
I'm trying to decide if that's an argument against getting into DFC or an argument to get at least two fleets.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Hawk Wargames doesn't need your money to release their game, they only need it to buy plastic molds for the already-drafted designs to have cheap models right out of the gate. They don't want another 2 years of selling resin before they can offer inexpensive starters.
Edit: and x-wing instead of DFC is like saying you'd rather play necromunda instead of epic. Two extremely different games and really you should be playing both. :P
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
And I wouldn't hesitate to buy Hawk's stuff sight unseen the way that I would hesitate to buy a Mantic model before I knew if was one of their duds. In other words, as a potential backer, Hawk's evident perfectionism is a very attractive characteristic.
It only comes down to the time lag and also the fact that I try to buy what I can from the store we play at because normally I end up buying lots of minis from tiny little companies that the store can't even special order.
We'll see. My record for resisting temptation on KS isn't especially good.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)