I had an interesting game on Ulrena where the protoss kept rebuilding a pylon in the narrow gap to delay my 12-pool lings.
He would cancel, rebuild further back, cancel, rebuild, etc so that my lings hit his ramp far too late to do anything.
Neat trick and it did not cost him a whole lot of minerals, but I think his macro fell apart behind it.
Even one finished pylon is more than enough for a build to deal with 12 pool fairly easily. I tried to do that fancy trick but accidentally left my probe on the side with the lings.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
so no proleague or gsl this week I guess. booooooooooooo.
they'll probably assign code s groups by the end of the week, that's the only reason I can think of for the delay. proleague I have no idea. maybe there's a tourney somewhere I'm unaware of and lots of players will be gone.
TL doesn't really have a presence in S. Korea I guess so it didn't make sense to continue a partnership.
Now I wonder who'll pick him up. I mean... someone has to... He's friggin' Hero!
Man, I miss Taeja...
he and Polt are the only two Terrans I could cheer for...
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
But does that mean that maybe Taeja will also be forced to leave TL because of these rules?
Because of circumstance?
On the more positive note, this means that Polt will basically win any and all NA events now and forever.
'MURKA!!
In fact, Neeb just beat both Polt and Hydra in Bo5s in NA Challenger, so the NA scene has a new champion.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Code S started last night. haven't finished the vod yes, and I know Zest is a great player but honestly tvp is still like lol. not fun to play or watch. I can accept that I'm bad but you watch 5 games against incredible terrans and all zest loses is one where he gets tricked and wrecked tactically in like 6 minutes.
never gonna make a call after 5 games or soemthing but bleh.
not that watching sc2 and feeling that protoss should win against terran unless they misplay is something new :P
I'm only a few games into the most recent Code S vod but I'll say this:
It kills me when a pro sends several workers to stand against a half-finished vespene-geyser building.
Spend 3 of your 400 apm to do that when the building is done! Save 30 minerals. Gosh.
i never see them do that in the early game, but it's quite common in the mid to late game
the thing is, lots can suddenly happen in the lategame without warning, so you can never be sure you'll have the APM to spare to come back to those in a few econds
I wasn't keeping count, but I'm sure Zest did it in the early game at least twice yesterday, and I'm sure I've seen other protoss players (and one terran) do it in the early game of their LotV Code A matches.
For some reason it has mostly been protoss players
kedinik on
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I agree in general that PvT is not fun to watch. Just seems lopsided and inevitable.
Yesterday, at least, made it seem:
like Protoss can power their economy really hard while also putting on heavy pressure that might straight-up kill the Terran.
The Terrans usually survived those builds, but at the cost of a delayed third, and ~25 SCVs, and all or most of the Terran's standing army.
I feel like Taeja was only able to take one game past ~10 minutes because Zest was totally unwilling to move his twice-as-big army onto Taeja's side of the map.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
that makes me feel less crazy! glad to hear it
it certainly needs to be given time, doesn't even seem like T's are settled on how fast you need to tech or how fast you can expand, but even back to when I saw the adept change I didn't feel like it was in the right direction. it's a good harass unit because it's a good unit that can also teleport, not because it 2 shotted scvs.
it certainly needs to be given time, doesn't even seem like T's are settled on how fast you need to tech or how fast you can expand, but even back to when I saw the adept change I didn't feel like it was in the right direction. it's a good harass unit because it's a good unit that can also teleport, not because it 2 shotted scvs.
Honestly, I thought most of the force of the nerf was versus unupgraded marines. I used to win a lot of fights straight up and only then kill the scvs if they teched too hard.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
So..... As someone who's really out of practice, are there any good solid build orders as Z vs the other races that I can practice? I've got a multi-week work tournament coming up starting.... this week.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Well that's all build orders are. A vague goal like hatch first will work fine. Precise build orders at supply numbers take too much memorisation to be worthwhile.
Well that's all build orders are. A vague goal like hatch first will work fine. Precise build orders at supply numbers take too much memorisation to be worthwhile.
I mean... a vague goal works when you have a better idea of the flow of the game and such. I've played < 10 games of LotV, and the pace of things is really different now. So if I want "a vague goal like hatch first" it's just going to end up being really inefficient for a long time. I wanted a solid build order I could print out at my desk or whatever so that I could try and win with whatever of my mechanics still remain without being horribly slow due to now knowing LotV pacing.
Well that's all build orders are. A vague goal like hatch first will work fine. Precise build orders at supply numbers take too much memorisation to be worthwhile.
I mean... a vague goal works when you have a better idea of the flow of the game and such. I've played < 10 games of LotV, and the pace of things is really different now. So if I want "a vague goal like hatch first" it's just going to end up being really inefficient for a long time. I wanted a solid build order I could print out at my desk or whatever so that I could try and win with whatever of my mechanics still remain without being horribly slow due to now knowing LotV pacing.
For most maps and for each match-up, it is usually reasonable to open 17 hatch / 17 gas / 17 pool. I don't have very specific supply-based plans beyond that, sorry, but here are the closest things I can offer:
In ZvZ I make a baneling nest when I can afford it and then take one worker off gas as the baneling nest starts. I play defensive if they went pool-first, maybe one spine in the natural and producing mostly units, but otherwise I try to delay their third with ling/bane pressure while I drone a little, take my own third, and move into roaches.
In ZvP I usually take a third almost as soon as the second and then use queens and lings to fend off adepts. If it looks like they're getting aggressive off two bases then I cut drones around maybe 50, don't take the 4th, and pump out roach/ravager/ling until the aggression ends one way or another. Otherwise, if they take a fast third with a small army, I power drones and take a fast fourth.
ZvT opens similar to ZvP but goes into roaches sooner. Unless I'm confident they're being greedy, I put down a roach warren around 4 minutes, get back into gas, and make a few roaches and a few ravagers without cutting drone production too hard.
Ulrena is a totally different beast.
For Ulrena ZvP, I've done well with 12-pool / 13 OL --> save 3 larva for 6 lings as pool finished, make more lings if your first OL sees that additional lings can probably do additional damage --> gasless expand twice --> into gas and a few defensive roaches while you drone.
For Ulrena ZvZ, I've done well with 12-pool / 13 gas / 13 OL --> speed, baneling nest, deny expansion --> contain, expand --> mix in roaches.
Ulrena ZvT is ok for the standard 17 / 17 / 17 opener, but I think it makes more sense to skip early gas, never get ling speed, make a few extra queens, and either produce several defensive queens or else get into a low level of roach production earlier than usual; it's not a great ZvT map for speedlings or for the things speedlings normally help you to guard against. From there, I try to keep the roach / ravager count high enough to hold the natural choke points in case of a push and I put the rest of my larva and money into getting ~70 drones mining across 4 bases.
kedinik on
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had no idea this was coming. curious how strong the AI will be since while buffing stuff is great, a lot of it was trivial to begin with.
the problem with co-op is that if you make it challenging for two coordinated players, then it will be too difficult when playing more uncoordinated with random pub queues.
conversely, if you make it possible for one skilled person to carry another without coordinating, then it will be too easy for coordinated teams to win.
had no idea this was coming. curious how strong the AI will be since while buffing stuff is great, a lot of it was trivial to begin with.
the problem with co-op is that if you make it challenging for two coordinated players, then it will be too difficult when playing more uncoordinated with random pub queues.
conversely, if you make it possible for one skilled person to carry another without coordinating, then it will be too easy for coordinated teams to win.
yup. i would hope that the varying difficulty levels would let them alleviate that since there is always the option to simply play a lower difficulty. however at this point without new maps in a regular and frequent fashion it gets old quick beating up the computer.
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I think Dusk Towers is a particularly good map for siege tanks and liberators.
He would cancel, rebuild further back, cancel, rebuild, etc so that my lings hit his ramp far too late to do anything.
Neat trick and it did not cost him a whole lot of minerals, but I think his macro fell apart behind it.
I was confused to see I had made 102 workers in a game, until I finally remembered that drones die to make buildings.
Those heroes shall not be forgotten uh not any further than they already have been.
Yeah, Harstem I think it was did that a couple times at DreamHack.
Even one finished pylon is more than enough for a build to deal with 12 pool fairly easily. I tried to do that fancy trick but accidentally left my probe on the side with the lings.
they'll probably assign code s groups by the end of the week, that's the only reason I can think of for the delay. proleague I have no idea. maybe there's a tourney somewhere I'm unaware of and lots of players will be gone.
MC vs. Firecake righ now.
Like, seriously?
It's announced on valentine's day???
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/504034-parting-ways-with-a-hero
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wra
http://kotaku.com/new-rules-for-pro-starcraft-drive-legendary-player-off-1759098861
TL doesn't really have a presence in S. Korea I guess so it didn't make sense to continue a partnership.
Now I wonder who'll pick him up. I mean... someone has to... He's friggin' Hero!
Man, I miss Taeja...
he and Polt are the only two Terrans I could cheer for...
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
@dhalphir should be back this week, yeah
Because of circumstance?
On the more positive note, this means that Polt will basically win any and all NA events now and forever.
'MURKA!!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
In fact, Neeb just beat both Polt and Hydra in Bo5s in NA Challenger, so the NA scene has a new champion.
never gonna make a call after 5 games or soemthing but bleh.
not that watching sc2 and feeling that protoss should win against terran unless they misplay is something new :P
It kills me when a pro sends several workers to stand against a half-finished vespene-geyser building.
Spend 3 of your 400 apm to do that when the building is done! Save 30 minerals. Gosh.
i never see them do that in the early game, but it's quite common in the mid to late game
the thing is, lots can suddenly happen in the lategame without warning, so you can never be sure you'll have the APM to spare to come back to those in a few econds
For some reason it has mostly been protoss players
I finished watching yesterday's Code S.
I agree in general that PvT is not fun to watch. Just seems lopsided and inevitable.
Yesterday, at least, made it seem:
The Terrans usually survived those builds, but at the cost of a delayed third, and ~25 SCVs, and all or most of the Terran's standing army.
I feel like Taeja was only able to take one game past ~10 minutes because Zest was totally unwilling to move his twice-as-big army onto Taeja's side of the map.
it certainly needs to be given time, doesn't even seem like T's are settled on how fast you need to tech or how fast you can expand, but even back to when I saw the adept change I didn't feel like it was in the right direction. it's a good harass unit because it's a good unit that can also teleport, not because it 2 shotted scvs.
Honestly, I thought most of the force of the nerf was versus unupgraded marines. I used to win a lot of fights straight up and only then kill the scvs if they teched too hard.
yayyyyyyy
best it's ever been, pretty much
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So I need to get good quickly :P
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unless you want to be a dirty terran
then give it to @Variable
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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I mean... a vague goal works when you have a better idea of the flow of the game and such. I've played < 10 games of LotV, and the pace of things is really different now. So if I want "a vague goal like hatch first" it's just going to end up being really inefficient for a long time. I wanted a solid build order I could print out at my desk or whatever so that I could try and win with whatever of my mechanics still remain without being horribly slow due to now knowing LotV pacing.
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@kime
For most maps and for each match-up, it is usually reasonable to open 17 hatch / 17 gas / 17 pool. I don't have very specific supply-based plans beyond that, sorry, but here are the closest things I can offer:
In ZvP I usually take a third almost as soon as the second and then use queens and lings to fend off adepts. If it looks like they're getting aggressive off two bases then I cut drones around maybe 50, don't take the 4th, and pump out roach/ravager/ling until the aggression ends one way or another. Otherwise, if they take a fast third with a small army, I power drones and take a fast fourth.
ZvT opens similar to ZvP but goes into roaches sooner. Unless I'm confident they're being greedy, I put down a roach warren around 4 minutes, get back into gas, and make a few roaches and a few ravagers without cutting drone production too hard.
Ulrena is a totally different beast.
For Ulrena ZvP, I've done well with 12-pool / 13 OL --> save 3 larva for 6 lings as pool finished, make more lings if your first OL sees that additional lings can probably do additional damage --> gasless expand twice --> into gas and a few defensive roaches while you drone.
For Ulrena ZvZ, I've done well with 12-pool / 13 gas / 13 OL --> speed, baneling nest, deny expansion --> contain, expand --> mix in roaches.
Ulrena ZvT is ok for the standard 17 / 17 / 17 opener, but I think it makes more sense to skip early gas, never get ling speed, make a few extra queens, and either produce several defensive queens or else get into a low level of roach production earlier than usual; it's not a great ZvT map for speedlings or for the things speedlings normally help you to guard against. From there, I try to keep the roach / ravager count high enough to hold the natural choke points in case of a push and I put the rest of my larva and money into getting ~70 drones mining across 4 bases.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20042693/starcraft-ii-legacy-of-the-void-313-patch-notes-2-23-2016
had no idea this was coming. curious how strong the AI will be since while buffing stuff is great, a lot of it was trivial to begin with.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
the problem with co-op is that if you make it challenging for two coordinated players, then it will be too difficult when playing more uncoordinated with random pub queues.
conversely, if you make it possible for one skilled person to carry another without coordinating, then it will be too easy for coordinated teams to win.
yup. i would hope that the varying difficulty levels would let them alleviate that since there is always the option to simply play a lower difficulty. however at this point without new maps in a regular and frequent fashion it gets old quick beating up the computer.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website