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[XCOM] You can't parry a shotgun. The Resistance is Live!

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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    MegaMek wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    guys.
    it just hit me.

    give a ranger a heavy suit (exo/war), this gives them a massive, 2 handed sword. they lose the shotgun, they get a bitchy little sectoid-esque wrist mounted ballistic weapon.
    this would totes make them a competitive pick!

    That still doesn't do anything to help with the fact that if you're not executing the last member of a pod, melee places you in a position where you are extremely vulnerable.

    Doubly so if you happen to trigger more pods when you charge forward.

    Don't melee enemies that would put you in a bad position, and don't melee enemies that are too far away from your squad. Not that hard.

    The sword is a useful tool when used in its extremely specific niche; executing enemies that are where you want your ranger to be.

    Or within one move of the target location, once you get implacable.

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    MegaMekMegaMek Girls like girls. Registered User regular
    Yes that too. Implacable is pretty great; I can expose my ranger (or my heavies thanks to the AWC) for the perfect shot then retreat to high cover.

    Is time a gift or punishment?
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    AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    I think I should just go do the story missions and win the game at this point. My grenadiers keep refusing to be promoted to colonel though.

    I haven't found the last ability all that useful. For Saturation Fire, Grenadiers don't have great aim, and if I'm considering AoE damage, I probably can't afford to miss, so I just fire off one of my 3 grenades instead or a heavy weapon off one of my other troopers. I've found Rupture to be more useful, but again, if I'm counting on it to hit a Sectopod, I could end up in a lot of shit. That being said, if push comes to shove, I'd rather use Rupture on a Sectopod than a regular shot.

    Maybe if I put my aim bonuses on my Grenadiers... I suppose one of them does have Rapid Fire and the other has Killzone (note, not actually very useful, as far as I can work it).

    Does saturation fire use your grenadier's aim stat? The description makes it sound like, but the one time I used it, it just ate 3 ammo and hit everything in the cone of fire as if it were a shredder cannon or something.

    Although I might have gotten lucky. Still, I'd still lean towards saturation fire just because it is another means to attack cover. I use hail of bullets for a guranteed shredder hit against sectopods/gatekeepers. That way I don't need to consume a ton of grenades softening them up.

    I don't know. I've had it miss a bunch of times before, though I suspect it may be related to being in cover. I have a mod that shows the % of shots being taken as they're taken, and I've noticed that Faceless who attempt to hit my soldiers in cover sometimes MISS on a 100% chance shot and destroy the cover instead. I suspect there might be something similar for Saturation Fire, since I've seen 0%s show up before.
    Then don't use it where you'll ignite your own cover in a burst of flames.

    Apparently it's so buggy that sometimes it'll happen even when there's no cover in front of you. According to some reports on Reddit.

    I haven't had any problems with Saturation Fire - as far as I can tell, every enemy highlighted in the arc will take the amount of damage an attack would have dealt, without an attack roll, and most (if not all) of the cover in the arc will be destroyed). If an enemy isn't going to be hit by it for whatever reason, that enemy should fail to highlight when targeting the ability. My grenadiers have also thus far failed to self-immolate on use.

    Relatedly, my experience so far indicates that Saturation Fire is the shit. It's basically a slightly-less-good Shredstorm Cannon, but on a cooldown so you can use it multiple times in longer missions.

    I've gotten a lot more mileage out of it than I have out of Rupture.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    Example 1: A few enemies in cover, my Shaken ranger in cover, Specialist tosses a Mimic beacon to land in the open between the pod and my ranger. Everything shoots at the ranger.

    Example 2: Radio relay thing we're meant to be protecting, Xcom operatives in cover at the windows, aliens inside with the relay. Toss beacon. Half the aliens shoot at operatives, the other half (bar one) shoot at the relay, destroying it. The one alien crouched by the relay fires a shot at the Mimic beacon.

    It's just not like you guys are describing it in my game.

    For me the aliens do the most stupid things possible the instant the beacon comes out. For example, they will fly out of cover and stand in the open, just to try to attack the mimic beacon. Sometimes they will just fail to shoot as they double move up to it. Essentially they make the most stupid possible decisions regarding attacking the beacon as possible.

    It honestly needs to be hammered with the nerf bat very very hard. The way t is working in your game sounds perfect. It should - at best - distract one attack only. It shouldn't be an instant "Nullify the entire alien turn into utter suicide/uselessness" like it is now.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Oh, I agree that it seems more balanced in my game, I'm just not sure why is acting that way. Maybe difficulty? I'm on Commander, but fuck Iron Man this early in the game's release.

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    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    Oh, I agree that it seems more balanced in my game, I'm just not sure why is acting that way. Maybe difficulty? I'm on Commander, but fuck Iron Man this early in the game's release.

    Are you sure the enemies can see it? The mimic beacon must land within vision of the aliens for them to target it; if they can't see the spot where you threw it, they will ignore the beacon (even if they later walk / run right up to the beacon).

    With Love and Courage
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Also, hey, I discovered how to rescue a save from the dreaded Chryssalid corruption:

    Works like a charm.

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
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    mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    Okay. Filled out the tech tree on my no avatar timer save. have a good feel for the game.

    Now to figure out the timer and dive into iron man.

    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Holy shit. Chryssalids...
    Can pop out of the ground and attack you on your turn.

    What a load of absolute bullshit. Agent Smith's most recent host is Goddamn lucky the thing missed. Is there any kind of counter to that crap? As far as I can tell there is no visual clue that a Chryssalid has gone burrowing around.

    With Love and Courage
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    KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    Oh, I agree that it seems more balanced in my game, I'm just not sure why is acting that way. Maybe difficulty? I'm on Commander, but fuck Iron Man this early in the game's release.

    Are you sure the enemies can see it? The mimic beacon must land within vision of the aliens for them to target it; if they can't see the spot where you threw it, they will ignore the beacon (even if they later walk / run right up to the beacon).

    I gave examples. In one case, the beacon was in the open between the pod and the XCom operative in cover that was shot at instead. In the second, I wasn't as clear, but the beacon landed in the middle of the pod, in clear sight, with no cover. One Advent trooper shot at it out of about five enemies.

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    Oh man, this current mission I am on completely went pear shaped.

    it was a short timer, et to the box on a train before it blows up thing. had two pods to start with which went mostly fine lost one of my low level specialists to a snakeman.I clear the pods out and as soon as I advanced a bit i get notice that reinforcements are coming but its behind me. great. as I move towards the box there is another pod near the box with 2 sectopods and a codex.

    i hack the box with my other specialist (and get the +20 hack wooh) but at this point i am kind of fucked. i made a save point right after the hack and have been trying to figure out the puzzle but its hard since I was using team B and part of C

    have a shitty sniper who missed mostly everything.
    a grenadier
    a specialist
    a ranger

    G and sniper are on the reinforcement side and the other 2 are on the codex side.

    tried it 3 or 4 different ways and basically lose the sniper and heavy both times. thinking i might need to swallow my pride and evac before losses get too bad

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Holy shit. Chryssalids...
    Can pop out of the ground and attack you on your turn.

    What a load of absolute bullshit. Agent Smith's most recent host is Goddamn lucky the thing missed. Is there any kind of counter to that crap? As far as I can tell there is no visual clue that a Chryssalid has gone burrowing around.

    Battle scanners / Scanning Protocol reveals them (and I think it forces them to surface? I'm not sure).
    Otherwise, I move my guys up with someone already providing overwatch to cover them if anything pops up.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    Well, that didn't take long.

    Stun lancers and snakemen vs my ghetto ass rifles and no armor.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    guys.
    it just hit me.

    give a ranger a heavy suit (exo/war), this gives them a massive, 2 handed sword. they lose the shotgun, they get a bitchy little sectoid-esque wrist mounted ballistic weapon.
    this would totes make them a competitive pick!

    That still doesn't do anything to help with the fact that if you're not executing the last member of a pod, melee places you in a position where you are extremely vulnerable.

    Doubly so if you happen to trigger more pods when you charge forward.

    A really big sword. With an aoe melee like a Faceless attack.
    Like a buster sword.

    Actually, I wonder how long before someone does a mod that replaces the classes with FFVII characters. Barrett is basically a grenadier already...

    steam_sig.png
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    MegaMekMegaMek Girls like girls. Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Holy shit. Chryssalids...
    Can pop out of the ground and attack you on your turn.

    What a load of absolute bullshit. Agent Smith's most recent host is Goddamn lucky the thing missed. Is there any kind of counter to that crap? As far as I can tell there is no visual clue that a Chryssalid has gone burrowing around.

    Stand still, stay silent.

    Also bounding overwatch when you know they're about. :razz:

    Is time a gift or punishment?
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    DuriniaDurinia Evolved from Space Potatoes Registered User regular
    Hey, the comic is about XCOM 2!
    ...and how it broke Gabe's computer...

    For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
    --Mark Twain
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    evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    guys.
    it just hit me.

    give a ranger a heavy suit (exo/war), this gives them a massive, 2 handed sword. they lose the shotgun, they get a bitchy little sectoid-esque wrist mounted ballistic weapon.
    this would totes make them a competitive pick!

    That still doesn't do anything to help with the fact that if you're not executing the last member of a pod, melee places you in a position where you are extremely vulnerable.

    Doubly so if you happen to trigger more pods when you charge forward.

    It does though. With an aim pcs and provided reaper/implacable firecorrectly, you'll be fine!

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    I can see how sword rangers can become pretty dang good at the end game when they are fully leveled up and have the right gear, but everyone is good at that point. The trouble will be keeping them alive that long or justifying taking them on missions over more useful soldiers during the mid game when shit is actually hairy.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    There are two things I have to say:

    1. I don't understand people who call Ranger underpowered. Sure, I don't bring multiple rangers on "Grind them down" missions, but on any mission where you have a timer and need mobility the Ranger is THE KING (well, Ranger+Sharpshooter combo really, but hey).

    There are a few reasons why this is so.

    a. Ranger has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Early game the melee weapon is one of the most deadly attacks available, and late game you have both an insane crit potential (laser sight+Talon rounds) and rapid fire. That's frequently 24 damage with a storm gun.
    b. This is combined with some of the most OP skills in the game. Shadowstep, Run&Gun, Implacable (Or bladestorm, bladestorm is the anti-chrysalid king), Rapid Fire and goddamn Untouchable. Untouchable is CRAZY.
    Just never ever try to melee a muton. Just don't do it.

    2. Despite the new Chrysalid bullshit with them burrowing and actually attacking when discovered....Chrysalids are actually less lethal than they used to be. There are two reasons for this. The first is that they're not really autokilling this time around. A melee attack in the original XCOM was pracitically a deathsentence. In XCOM 2 I've been meleed multiple times by chrysalids and it doesn't even hurt that much. The second reason is Mindcontrol. By the time you discover chrysalids there are a whole bunch of things that you can mindcontrol to take the hit for you. Andromedons tend to absorb chrysalids pretty well (and delivering anti-chrysalids FALCON PAWNCH). The Psychoball just laughs at them and then consumes them with hideous bioeater tentacles while healing up all of the damage dealt.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    I met my first andromedon.

    And then mind controlled it. That mission was easy.

    I'm cranking along in Veteran Ironman now. Seems like there's an early hump to get over but now that I have some levelled up troops and tier 3 armor/plasma rifles, it's gotten a lot easier.

    Also, fuck Chryssalids. Again. But yeah, I have tons of health so they haven't been an issue yet. Story wise:
    I finished the blacksite and the second blacksite, and now I'm headed to the codex brain location. Gotta be getting close, I've finished researching EVERYTHING else!

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    I can see how sword rangers can become pretty dang good at the end game when they are fully leveled up and have the right gear, but everyone is good at that point. The trouble will be keeping them alive that long or justifying taking them on missions over more useful soldiers during the mid game when shit is actually hairy.

    I've brought two rangers on almost every mission on my Legendary playthrough once I hit squad size 1 (barring moments when I didn't have two healthy rangers) and haven't regretted it yet.

    Typically, one has Phantom and Run&Gun, scouts in the beginning but is able to dash into critical flanking positions when necessary. The other is a sword-wielder, Blademaster, Bladestorm, Reaper once she hits colonel, as flanker and stabber whose job is to run in and finish off troublesome foes (making sure she ends up somewhere she isn't exposed or likely to draw new pods, which the phantom Ranger scouting ahead helps immensely with) but also has Conceal, so when I have to use the Phantom Ranger to finish off something, she can go into concealment and continue scouting while the first Ranger does all the flanking and shooting. This tag-team buildup makes my missions run very quickly and smoothly, always aware of where the next pod is, almost always certain of being able to finish off a pod in quick order. ALWAYS GRENADES ALL THE TIME might do the same work and simpler, but I like this strat a lot more.


    Also, you guys know about Capnbubs Accessory Pack? Just added tactical masks that cover the lower face and neck. They were designed with Kevlar armor specifically, so there is (usually very minor) clipping near the neck for other armor types, but it looks AWESOME, and you can combined it with some of the helmets already in-game to created the full helmet looks that I know a lot of us have been itching for.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I met my first andromedon.

    And then mind controlled it. That mission was easy.

    I'm cranking along in Veteran Ironman now. Seems like there's an early hump to get over but now that I have some levelled up troops and tier 3 armor/plasma rifles, it's gotten a lot easier.

    Also, fuck Chryssalids. Again. But yeah, I have tons of health so they haven't been an issue yet. Story wise:
    I finished the blacksite and the second blacksite, and now I'm headed to the codex brain location. Gotta be getting close, I've finished researching EVERYTHING else!

    I found that my troops stopped dying when I got Predator armor. It happened occasionally, but not often (4 extra hitpoints really makes a difference). I didn't lose anyone after I got Warden armor.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    Oh, I agree that it seems more balanced in my game, I'm just not sure why is acting that way. Maybe difficulty? I'm on Commander, but fuck Iron Man this early in the game's release.

    Are you sure the enemies can see it? The mimic beacon must land within vision of the aliens for them to target it; if they can't see the spot where you threw it, they will ignore the beacon (even if they later walk / run right up to the beacon).

    I gave examples. In one case, the beacon was in the open between the pod and the XCom operative in cover that was shot at instead. In the second, I wasn't as clear, but the beacon landed in the middle of the pod, in clear sight, with no cover. One Advent trooper shot at it out of about five enemies.
    "In the open" doesn't necessarily mean anything. If an alien is in heavy cover, it obstructs their sight lines. If there's heavy cover anywhere in the area, it obstructs sight lines. It isn't always obvious what is and isn't in view for a given opponent. A random lamppost six tiles away can cast a long shadow if the angle is just right.

    From now on, whenever you want to throw a mimic beacon, mouse-over the tile first (assuming it's in somebody's movement range) and confirm that you would be able to shoot every enemy from that tile. I guarantee it will always work. I've read the AI routines. There are tons of situations where throwing a mimic beacon into one wide-open tile is fine but putting it one tile to the left will break line-of-sight and make it fail, and it isn't always obvious.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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    valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    Oh, I agree that it seems more balanced in my game, I'm just not sure why is acting that way. Maybe difficulty? I'm on Commander, but fuck Iron Man this early in the game's release.

    Are you sure the enemies can see it? The mimic beacon must land within vision of the aliens for them to target it; if they can't see the spot where you threw it, they will ignore the beacon (even if they later walk / run right up to the beacon).

    I gave examples. In one case, the beacon was in the open between the pod and the XCom operative in cover that was shot at instead. In the second, I wasn't as clear, but the beacon landed in the middle of the pod, in clear sight, with no cover. One Advent trooper shot at it out of about five enemies.
    "In the open" doesn't necessarily mean anything. If an alien is in heavy cover, it obstructs their sight lines. If there's heavy cover anywhere in the area, it obstructs sight lines. It isn't always obvious what is and isn't in view for a given opponent. A random lamppost six tiles away can cast a long shadow if the angle is just right.

    From now on, whenever you want to throw a mimic beacon, mouse-over the tile first (assuming it's in somebody's movement range) and confirm that you would be able to shoot every enemy from that tile. I guarantee it will always work. I've read the AI routines. There are tons of situations where throwing a mimic beacon into one wide-open tile is fine but putting it one tile to the left will break line-of-sight and make it fail, and it isn't always obvious.

    ADVENT HQ GEOSCAPE

    BSNR9jT.jpg

    from https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/45vtyb/advent_hq_geoscape/

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I miss the falcon pawnch.
    Just doesn't feel right without my MEC troopers. :(

    I soldier on without them but the withdrawal is strong.

    Dr. Chaos on
    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    i'd like to know hwy when i use the missle launcher attack froma mech it does pittance, but against me that thing will kill pretty much everyone

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    Yeah. The boosh is like the biggest thing I miss from EW. I'm really hoping Shen's last gift is MECs, because I need to punch a muton through a damn wall

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I met my first andromedon.

    And then mind controlled it. That mission was easy.

    I'm cranking along in Veteran Ironman now. Seems like there's an early hump to get over but now that I have some levelled up troops and tier 3 armor/plasma rifles, it's gotten a lot easier.

    Also, fuck Chryssalids. Again. But yeah, I have tons of health so they haven't been an issue yet. Story wise:
    I finished the blacksite and the second blacksite, and now I'm headed to the codex brain location. Gotta be getting close, I've finished researching EVERYTHING else!

    I found that my troops stopped dying when I got Predator armor. It happened occasionally, but not often (4 extra hitpoints really makes a difference). I didn't lose anyone after I got Warden armor.

    Is Warden armor actually worth it? It adds one more HP than the EXO suits that I have and an inventory slot but is missing the armor and the heavy weapon. I was pretty disappointed when I finally built it and then immediately shelved it again. Everybody needs rocket launchers. Everybody.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    I generally find the regular armors are fine for most of my people. The extra utility slot is handy for making sure I have everything I need.
    1 blaster bomb is usually sufficient when the need arises. :)

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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    Extra item versus extra explosion aside, I'm inclined to think the armor point is more useful than the health pip. Until it gets shredded it's just a flat 1 damage reduction, right?

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    But the proving ground armors are expensive. They take elerium cores which could be used for better killtools. The non proving ground stuff might be a bit less good, but it's cheap.

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    I killed an
    avatar soldier

    Haha, Jane Kelly laughs at your pathetic all god.

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    OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    heenato wrote: »
    But the proving ground armors are expensive. They take elerium cores which could be used for better killtools. The non proving ground stuff might be a bit less good, but it's cheap.

    You want 1-2 rockets or other heavy weapons cause boom boom.

    Indispensable proving ground stuff so far for me has been plasma grenades, some ammo, one grenade early but after that meh (i got gas grenade) and a few EXO then War suits. I should build a wraith suit I guess but up until recently my game had given me like 5 elerium cores.

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    Oh yeah. But he was asking "Is warden armor even worth getting" and yes, when the alternative is 6 elerium cores and 1200 supplies.

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    Welp one of my rangers just got killzone as an additional ability. This should be fun.

    Steam: mere_immortal - PSN: mere_immortal - XBL: lego pencil - Wii U: mimmortal - 3DS: 1521-7234-1642 - Bordgamegeek: mere_immortal
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I doubt Shen's last gift will be MECs, given the view XCOM 2 takes of messing around with humans, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an exo-suit variant with a rocket punch or something.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    I could see it being a mec equivelent in basically full power armor. not that baby stuff we get in game. No the real power armor. Space mahreen power armor that makes your hand as big as your goddamn head.

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Welp one of my rangers just got killzone as an additional ability. This should be fun.

    Unfortunately, you can't move and then Killzone - as with all the Sniper abilities, as far as I can tell - and despite the description, it does not extend squadsight. You can sneak up to someone with concealment on and then use a close-range Killzone ambush, but I haven't found much other use for it. The cone's too narrow to use in a standard overwatch situation (esp. since you can't reposition beforehand).

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    jclast wrote: »
    Is Warden armor actually worth it? It adds one more HP than the EXO suits that I have and an inventory slot but is missing the armor and the heavy weapon. I was pretty disappointed when I finally built it and then immediately shelved it again. Everybody needs rocket launchers. Everybody.

    1. Warden armour gives you +1 Armor. So no. It's +1 HP and +1 Slot (Warden armour) vs Heavy weapon (EXO). W.A.R. Suits however give you TWO pips of armour and just as many hitpoints as the Warden armour while retaining the heavy weapon option from the EXO suit.
    2. The big saving grace for warden armour though is that it exists in infinite amounts. Build it once and it's available to everyone.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    RamiRami Registered User regular
    I doubt Shen's last gift will be MECs, given the view XCOM 2 takes of messing around with humans, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an exo-suit variant with a rocket punch or something.

    Advent MECs don't have pilots though.

    So new MECs would be like SHIVs from EU, except better.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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