Well except for the disenfranchised middle and lower class who have even less employment opportunities than now
Oh sure. According to estimations by the WHO, the bottom line will be that the global economy will lose about 6 million jobs between now and 2020 due to automatization. And let's not forget that a significant percentage of the global population isn't even part of the global economy. I'd bet if you'd look at it closely, it's probably significantly less than a billion people that are working within the framework of the global economy. An up to 1% loss of jobs in only 4 years? With much of the relevant technologies being in their infancy, and super-expensive? That's scary. But also beautiful, because really, labor in industry is inhumane.
As cool as that is and all, I sometimes wonder why they'd bother building a bipedal robot.
Four legs are better than two.
Six legs are even better.
Eight-legged spider robots that can think and plan is basically the ideal, is what I'm saying.
I can give you a lot of answers, but the short version is you're right, the rationale is far more psychological than practical, but the things we learn just by trying to do the bipedal stuff are invaluable.
Well, there are some benefits to walking upright for biological creatures. Energy efficiency possibly, freedom to use your hands enabling tool use, being able to see things further away with less obstructions.
Robots aren't subject to the same sort of limitations, so you could just engineer it more arms and a camera on a stick. But yeah, that freaks people out.
Is it just me, or is this humanoid robot, due to its lifelike movements, beginning to seem like an actual lifeform?
Is this coming to grips with its environments, the forces of gravity, momentum, and whatnot - its struggle for equilibrium - in some minor way already giving it a life of its own? Is what I'm looking at here not like seeing the most basic cognitive activity in our own brains? The one that governs involuntary things like heartbeat and breath and equilibrium? Seeing it struggle is almost enough to attribute life to this machination. Enough so to make me feel for it, when that bearded dude goes and harasses it with a stick.
I can't wait for androids to take over our place in all of industry, so that I can languish by the poolside, sipping on fruit smoothies made by sentient shapely blenders clad in skimpy bikinis, made with fruit grown by robot farmers in khaki shirts and overall pants chewing on tobacco, delivered by robot truckers finding sexual relief and companionship in the arms of robot lot lizards at robot truckstops. And so forth.
To become industrially obsolete. There isn't a more human pursuit than that. Thank you Boston Dynamics, for soon you'll put an end to Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times, the nightmare we find ourselves trapped in. I think with my new found economic freedom, I might become an old school cobbler, just for fuck's sake - literally. Everybody loves a good shoe.
Robots are reaching jellyfish level. They can generally interact with the environment, sort of. They still have a very difficult time learning things, or doing anything except highly specialized tasks. I think our robotic replacement is still a long way off.
Self driving cars are pretty much here and work
So that right there knocks out all trucking and taxi jobs
Make a self driving car small and stick a forklift on it and goodbye warehouse and dockworker type jobs
Construction and mining jobs aren't gonna be far behind
Etc
I certainly agree that there is a rapidly approaching labor problem, in that robots are replacing jobs. But I think it will be a slower slide towards a robotic future, than "10 years from now" replacement.
But they still can't do everything, and they still can't replace us in everything. Bender bending Rodriguez isn't happening soon. A more niche replacement will happen. A self driving car. A robot miner. Sure, those things are being done. But a robot won't put down the mining pick and then drive you home in your car.
I don't know that that type of versatility is all that necessary though
Like what would be the benefit of a robot that can both drive a car and mine coal
Two separate robots for those functions would probably be easier to build, program, and maintain
I agree, I just was more addressing the OP implication that a sort of complete robotic replacement was going to take effect. With robot truckers and robot hookers for robot truckers. Robots aren't becoming people any time soon. They are becoming highly specialized tools.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Really it's both sad and welcome as we will have a lot of free time in the future
but what do we do with it? As the way our society is now free time=lazy
I really do hope society changes in a positive way as automation rises
Really it's both sad and welcome as we will have a lot of free time in the future
but what do we do with it? As the way our society is now free time=lazy
I really do hope society changes in a positive way as automation rises
I guess the optimistic vision would be that automation frees people from the menial jobs and affords them the tools to create and become more, instead of having to be those tools for others.
Realistic is povertyyyyy and a million new ways to consume media.
I have a hard time thinking that the dystopia will happen, it would require a level of alienation on the part of the wealthy that would require them to suspend democracy. Much as people screw themselves over with the idea that they can earn their way into high society, when that becomes less and less likely, laws will change.
I have a hard time thinking that the dystopia will happen, it would require a level of alienation on the part of the wealthy that would require them to suspend democracy. Much as people screw themselves over with the idea that they can earn their way into high society, when that becomes less and less likely, laws will change.
There's an obvious knee jerk reaction along the lines of "the robut took mer jerb", but it's vastly more complicated than that. Think about how many times we've replayed a version of this in the past. Advances in technology over the years have already led to certain professions being severely reduced, or completely eliminated. This is just another version, although admittedly a much larger one.
I could site a lot of different points here, but instead here's an article that pretty much touches on them all (even if it's long and pretty winding):
The TLDR summary I take away is: removing the need for work is complicated. It could result in a form of utopia where income isn't tied to work and people are free to pursue whatever they want in life and socialize more . Or it could result in a form of dystopia where cities crumble (cough Detroit) and people are unable to find any work and lose their income and sense of purpose. More than likely it's somewhere between.
Well it won't be a dystopia for the super wealthy, just everyone else
Reminds me of people who anachronistically think that times were better when there were knights in shining armor and maidens in castles. Like Monty Python said, we know a person is a king "because he's not covered in shit."
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Well it won't be a dystopia for the super wealthy, just everyone else
Reminds me of people who anachronistically think that times were better when there were knights in shining armor and maidens in castles. Like Monty Python said, we know a person is a king "because he's not covered in shit."
Oh but you see, if I lived then, I wouldn't let myself get covered in shit, you see.
Foolproof.
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sponoMining for Nose DiamondsBooger CoveRegistered Userregular
Robots ---> no need for labor --> people bettering themselves for the sake of bettering themselves and society --> star trek --> tea, earl grey, hot
I have a hard time thinking that the dystopia will happen, it would require a level of alienation on the part of the wealthy that would require them to suspend democracy. Much as people screw themselves over with the idea that they can earn their way into high society, when that becomes less and less likely, laws will change.
The awareness is already there.
The wealthy are already isolated from global poverty with the skyrocketing cost of living in alpha cities - once you've got robot labor and self-driving cars rich Manhattanites would never even have to see a poor person.
Then they'll put it out of mind, just like most people do with suffering not shoved in their face.
I wonder if the WHO has factored in the roughly 400,000,000 of global population growth in that "6 million jobs lost to automation 'til 2020" figure that likely will occur during the same time period. I mean, that's some fucking growth right there.
Negative growth in terms of relatively well paying jobs? Explosive growth of global population? Mostly in non-affluent countries with little industry? Automation making low-paying low-education jobs non-competitive on the global marketplace?
It's almost cruel, just to think about the consequences mid-term, let alone long-term.
Global population growth is slowing and is liable to reach equilibrium between 10 and 11 billion.
That's assuming we aren't already too numerous to sustain a physiologically and psychologically and spiritually healthy society already. Our numbers and our way of life currently don't allow us to live harmoniously and sustainably. Just think of how many species of food fish are on brink of extinction. Hell - entire seas have already become unfit for fishery. Fish from the Baltic sea is practically toxic and unfit for consumption.
Looking from afar at places like India, I think we are in for a rude awakening, sooner rather than later. Indian society is quite literally drowning in its own shit, and culturally split between the Dark Ages and Modern Progressive Times. Hell, we are about to lose the arms race against micro-organisms. Because of our way of life, because of how numerous we are. We can't even manage our waste properly. As a species, we are literally too dumb to shit in some places.
Personally, I believe certain aspects of economy must not be industrialized. Like animal husbandry. Hunting and fishing. These industries are corrosive to the human soul. If we'd change our way of life according to my beliefs, and how our species might live in balance with its environments and each other, much stricter limitations for growth would apply.
P.S. I hope that first youtube link still works. VICE on HBO episodes are geotagged and sadly don't work for me anymore.
That's assuming we aren't already too numerous to sustain a physiologically and psychologically and spiritually healthy society already. Our numbers and our way of life currently don't allow us to live harmoniously and sustainably.
Population growth and sustainability are two completely separate issues. We're more than capable of housing and feeding the entirety of the current world population with the resources available to us; we simply choose not to do so.
That's assuming we aren't already too numerous to sustain a physiologically and psychologically and spiritually healthy society already. Our numbers and our way of life currently don't allow us to live harmoniously and sustainably.
Population growth and sustainability are two completely separate issues. We're more than capable of housing and feeding the entirety of the current world population with the resources available to us; we simply choose not to do so.
Of course I have added some qualifiers to my idea of sustainability. Physiologically and psychologically and spirtually healthy survival?
P.S. I don't believe for a second that we simply choose not to feed all of our kind. That would be giving us too much credit. I believe that even the most powerful amongst us are unable to willfully steer our collective enterprise towards that end, or any other end, other than the inevitable one - the ultimate failure of this enterprise.
If we will be capable of effectively making such a choice for our species thereafter, and which choice we will then make, that's the topic of my other thread.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
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Oh sure. According to estimations by the WHO, the bottom line will be that the global economy will lose about 6 million jobs between now and 2020 due to automatization. And let's not forget that a significant percentage of the global population isn't even part of the global economy. I'd bet if you'd look at it closely, it's probably significantly less than a billion people that are working within the framework of the global economy. An up to 1% loss of jobs in only 4 years? With much of the relevant technologies being in their infancy, and super-expensive? That's scary. But also beautiful, because really, labor in industry is inhumane.
I agree, I just was more addressing the OP implication that a sort of complete robotic replacement was going to take effect. With robot truckers and robot hookers for robot truckers. Robots aren't becoming people any time soon. They are becoming highly specialized tools.
but they're listening to every word I say
Gyno-roboticist
No man is more discreet than the discreet sex robot repair robot though.
But who repairs the discreet sex robot repair robot?
but what do we do with it? As the way our society is now free time=lazy
I really do hope society changes in a positive way as automation rises
I guess the optimistic vision would be that automation frees people from the menial jobs and affords them the tools to create and become more, instead of having to be those tools for others.
Realistic is povertyyyyy and a million new ways to consume media.
The awareness is already there.
So get ready for a veritable flood of shitty art and music, is what I'm saying
This is happening now, bub
I could site a lot of different points here, but instead here's an article that pretty much touches on them all (even if it's long and pretty winding):
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/
The TLDR summary I take away is: removing the need for work is complicated. It could result in a form of utopia where income isn't tied to work and people are free to pursue whatever they want in life and socialize more . Or it could result in a form of dystopia where cities crumble (cough Detroit) and people are unable to find any work and lose their income and sense of purpose. More than likely it's somewhere between.
Reminds me of people who anachronistically think that times were better when there were knights in shining armor and maidens in castles. Like Monty Python said, we know a person is a king "because he's not covered in shit."
Oh but you see, if I lived then, I wouldn't let myself get covered in shit, you see.
Foolproof.
I don't see the problem here
The wealthy are already isolated from global poverty with the skyrocketing cost of living in alpha cities - once you've got robot labor and self-driving cars rich Manhattanites would never even have to see a poor person.
Then they'll put it out of mind, just like most people do with suffering not shoved in their face.
Negative growth in terms of relatively well paying jobs? Explosive growth of global population? Mostly in non-affluent countries with little industry? Automation making low-paying low-education jobs non-competitive on the global marketplace?
It's almost cruel, just to think about the consequences mid-term, let alone long-term.
That's assuming we aren't already too numerous to sustain a physiologically and psychologically and spiritually healthy society already. Our numbers and our way of life currently don't allow us to live harmoniously and sustainably. Just think of how many species of food fish are on brink of extinction. Hell - entire seas have already become unfit for fishery. Fish from the Baltic sea is practically toxic and unfit for consumption.
Looking from afar at places like India, I think we are in for a rude awakening, sooner rather than later. Indian society is quite literally drowning in its own shit, and culturally split between the Dark Ages and Modern Progressive Times. Hell, we are about to lose the arms race against micro-organisms. Because of our way of life, because of how numerous we are. We can't even manage our waste properly. As a species, we are literally too dumb to shit in some places.
Personally, I believe certain aspects of economy must not be industrialized. Like animal husbandry. Hunting and fishing. These industries are corrosive to the human soul. If we'd change our way of life according to my beliefs, and how our species might live in balance with its environments and each other, much stricter limitations for growth would apply.
P.S. I hope that first youtube link still works. VICE on HBO episodes are geotagged and sadly don't work for me anymore.
Population growth and sustainability are two completely separate issues. We're more than capable of housing and feeding the entirety of the current world population with the resources available to us; we simply choose not to do so.
Of course I have added some qualifiers to my idea of sustainability. Physiologically and psychologically and spirtually healthy survival?
P.S. I don't believe for a second that we simply choose not to feed all of our kind. That would be giving us too much credit. I believe that even the most powerful amongst us are unable to willfully steer our collective enterprise towards that end, or any other end, other than the inevitable one - the ultimate failure of this enterprise.
If we will be capable of effectively making such a choice for our species thereafter, and which choice we will then make, that's the topic of my other thread.
the answer is... full communism
Robot communism!