I'm really, really hoping that this is a Karstark long game to destroy the Boltons. Not just to kill them, but to utterly ruin them so that everyone remembers their name as less than dirt, and that's why they backed Ramsay
what needs to happen now to redeem this plotline is for everything to start unraveling for Ramsay, because there's no way in fuck anybody anywhere buys the story of Roose being poisoned and his wife and new son also dying
Me too!
I am hoping they are trying to "Melissandre" away his support. Where his sadistic impulsive nature will cause everyone to abandon him, even Boltons own army. They are used to sadism but I imagine his arbitrariness will turn them off over time. You never know when he is going to turn on you. Perhaps you made a tiny mistake, coughed in his presence or even stole his thunder by being too good at your job. Plus kin-slaying of their old lord (Roose) will probably demoralize some and I don't imagine that secret will be kept. The Frey alliance is probably dead even if they don't find out what happened to Walda and her son.
Boltons
It may not even be the sadism. Ramsay likely doesn't have the respect Roose had among the vassals and some will balk at the idea of marching against the Wall.
And yeah, the Frey alliance is dead. Marriage alliances kind of depend on marriages and even if they never find out the exact manner of death, it was still the responsibility of the Boltons to keep Walda safe and alive.
Show Ramsey:
Really there was no reason to kill her and the baby. Kid isn't the heir, Ramsey is. Maybe some schemer could make use of the kid but there is literally nobody like that on the map, Walda sure ain't it. Shove them in a tower for the next few years and whatever. Maybe turn the kid into a loyal boot lick utterly loyal to you since this is something that Ramsey is shown doing a few different times. Killing them just pissed off a major ally (who could delay a Southron invasion plausibly) for no reason than we hadn't filled our violence against women quota for this episode.
My brother had an interesting thought on that:
If Ramsay was a smarter man he could've killed Walda and just claimed his brother as his own son. Tell everyone in the North that he had the child with Sansa. Almost no one would know and any who did are either loyal to Ramsay or just don't want to get eaten by dogs. He could parade his "son" around and the Northern houses could rally behind an heir with Stark blood, since who's going to dispute it?
Yeah, the Freys may not like it, but what are they going to do? Attack the North? And they can't trick anyone like the Red Wedding, people are expecting those shenanigans now.
The way I see it, there are three problems with Ramsay as depicted on the show:
First and most grievously, he is boring. You know what he is going to do in any situation, because it's the most evil thing you can think of. This does not make for a compelling character. There can be evil characters, even gleefully evil characters, who are interesting, because they have more than one shade. Immediate example: Mayor Wilkins on Buffy. Hannibal Lecter for another, who's even a psychopathic serial killer like Ramsay (though personally, he works best in small doses). You could even maybe make a case for Roose himself as one of those characters, though he is not gleeful about it. Season one Jaime also fits.
Second, he never suffers any setbacks. Whether it's shirtless Ramsay confronting the Ironborn or Ramsay fighting the most gifted battlefield commander in Westeros, he always wins. Even though he's rash and kind of a strategic moron. This contributes more to the boring.
Third, the show wallows in his sadism. Obviously true in season three when he's torturing Theon, but also in all his other moments. The show lingers, like it did last night
with Walda's death. We all would have gotten the point if he just unlocked the cages and whistled. But no, we had to listen to the dogs rip Walda and the child apart. Good times!
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I could not stop rolling my eyes with the Walda stuff
At this point
either he dies and the show tries to play up how great it is that this real bad guy died, and I just roll my eyes, or he just keeps winnign forever and I roll my eyes
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Third, the show wallows in his sadism. Obviously true in season three when he's torturing Theon, but also in all his other moments. The show lingers, like it did last night
with Walda's death. We all would have gotten the point if he just unlocked the cages and whistled. But no, we had to listen to the dogs rip Walda and the child apart. Good times!
The specific complaint about last night makes little sense. There's no reason to cut it short. No reason to respect our sensibilities.
+2
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I've not posted in here in forever, but I'm amazed at how much time is being dedicated to the Ramsay thing.
The only stupid thing there was the Maester announcing it there, when it's established earlier that the Maester is scared of ramsay and knows exactly what he is capable of.
How much I enjoyed seeing Thorne and those dumbass mutineers get completely stomped. Seriously people tend to get pissed when you kill the guy who saved their people.
Also maybe you don't need all your archers to lay siege to a single room. You could have probably put a couple on actual watch duty. Which is kind of your organisations entire reason for existing. Would have made Sneak attack by giant a lot harder.
How much I enjoyed seeing Thorne and those dumbass mutineers get completely stomped. Seriously people tend to get pissed when you kill the guy who saved their people.
Also maybe you don't need all your archers to lay siege to a single room. You could have probably put a couple on actual watch duty. Which is kind of your organisations entire reason for existing. Would have made Sneak attack by giant a lot harder.
I think they were afraid of the dire wolf more than anything else.
that an action which would get you baked, chewed, and destroyed in the books has a happy ending here.
oh no missendei is gonna get quentyn'd oh no Tyrion is gonna get quentyn'd
general question: are dragon's considered magical creatures?
Yes.
So magical that their presence seems to raise the overall level of magic in the world. Stuff like Thoros's abilities and the formula for making wildfire were less effective before the dragons hatched.
Causation or correlation?
Unclear.
Book stuff.
it is strongly hinted that they are a source of magic. At least of fiery type magic. Winter magic seems to have been happily wintering along up north of the Wall.
I would wager that the faith of the seven has very little in touch with "mystic ether" of the world. The real power seems to be tapped into by the red priests, the faceless men, and the children of the forest, who are very much at the margins (both metaphorically and literally) of the seven kingdoms
There have been some sly implications that one of the seven, the Stranger, is at least a reference to the kind of alien, inhuman powers that seem to truly rule the metaphysics of Westeros (and is maybe even the death god worshiped by the faceless men and, maybe, the white walkers)
The 7 are possibly all just faces of the Many Faced God, or whatever higher power there is in Westeros. Maybe there is only one god, the god of Death, as Arya's tutor said. All the magic so far has been fairly death-related anyway, right?
I think the Roose death just screams showrunners needing to fill in details on how the story gets to him being killed by Ramsay. We have all heard numerous times they know the general outline of what happens but that now that they are beyond the book, its up to them to fill in the details. Well, they have proven time and again they are horrible at the details. They take the cheap and easy way every time. Dagger to Hotah's back. Dagger to Roose. Ramsay is being all crazy? Lets use the dogs again (dead mistress food) and again for Walda). This is all typical showrunner garbage. They don't care who's characterizations are messed up by them being lazy in their writing (Roose looking like an idiot hugging his bastard).
Dany and Jon (Book and show)
Just some thoughts on possible future romance between the two. I just don't see Dany coming out of all of this and somehow falling all teenage girl, ga ga, head over heels for Jon Snow just because of his flowing locks. I can see the showrunners doing this. But, no way the book Dany does. She got that out of her system with Daario, I believe. If anything, her and Jon will have some sort of political type, possibly even cold marriage, that looks like it could bloom in the future, but perhaps the story ends before we all know for sure if they end up happy. Just my take.
I don't know to what extent the metaphysics of the series will be illuminated - probably not much, if he knows what's good for him - but it does seem clear that, if there are genuine divine or quasidivine forces at work, there's more than one?
I don't know to what extent the metaphysics of the series will be illuminated - probably not much, if he knows what's good for him - but it does seem clear that, if there are genuine divine or quasidivine forces at work, there's more than one?
Well, the only religion where everything works exactly as its practitioners seem to think it does is the religion of the Many Faced God, of which the red god is one of the faces
I don't know to what extent the metaphysics of the series will be illuminated - probably not much, if he knows what's good for him - but it does seem clear that, if there are genuine divine or quasidivine forces at work, there's more than one?
Book/show sorta stuff (bits and pieces mixed together)
Well, there's the 7 gods that most of Westeros is into. Those guys don't appear to provide much magical support. Then there's the Old Gods that the North still worships. There's something or other there, since the gods woods that they keep appear to have some warmth to them (in the books I think). Then there's the Fire god and the Faceless men's Death god, both or whom do appear to get shit done for reals. The drowned god of the Ironborn seems pretty powerless. The Ironborn are stuck on the crappiest islands in existence, and can't even wrangle a burial at sea. Their beaches must just be littered with corpses.
I'd have to think that the Valyrian Freehold probably had something going on too, but I don't know if that was mentioned in the books.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
The 7 are possibly all just faces of the Many Faced God, or whatever higher power there is in Westeros. Maybe there is only one god, the god of Death, as Arya's tutor said. All the magic so far has been fairly death-related anyway, right?
Kinda book spoilerish (maybe?), or at least some info in the books that the show hasn't focused on
I thought Jaqen (or maybe just another Braavosi) tells how the Braavosi are monotheistic, and few the Many Faced God as the one god, and that other religions with their many gods are just different aspects (aka faces) of the Many Faced God.
My interpretation is that there is no definitive evidence that there exists that there are anthropomorphic "gods" in this world any more than there is in ours. Sure they have magic, but that seems to be like another physical force that we just don't have in our world. People seem to have the ability to use it, but they can only guess at where it comes from. Much like people viewed fire or lightning before we had a better understanding of it. Like the Maesters are like the Benjamin Franklin's of Westeros, they kinda stumbled into how to harness wildfire just like Franklin (though more scientifically) found how to harness lightning.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I don't know to what extent the metaphysics of the series will be illuminated - probably not much, if he knows what's good for him - but it does seem clear that, if there are genuine divine or quasidivine forces at work, there's more than one?
Book/show sorta stuff (bits and pieces mixed together)
Well, there's the 7 gods that most of Westeros is into. Those guys don't appear to provide much magical support. Then there's the Old Gods that the North still worships. There's something or other there, since the gods woods that they keep appear to have some warmth to them (in the books I think). Then there's the Fire god and the Faceless men's Death god, both or whom do appear to get shit done for reals. The drowned god of the Ironborn seems pretty powerless. The Ironborn are stuck on the crappiest islands in existence, and can't even wrangle a burial at sea. Their beaches must just be littered with corpses.
I'd have to think that the Valyrian Freehold probably had something going on too, but I don't know if that was mentioned in the books.
Maybe the Drowned God just doesn't help because like the Ironborn he's very much sink or swim.
that an action which would get you baked, chewed, and destroyed in the books has a happy ending here.
oh no missendei is gonna get quentyn'd oh no Tyrion is gonna get quentyn'd
general question: are dragon's considered magical creatures?
Yes.
So magical that their presence seems to raise the overall level of magic in the world. Stuff like Thoros's abilities and the formula for making wildfire were less effective before the dragons hatched.
Causation or correlation?
Unclear.
Book stuff.
it is strongly hinted that they are a source of magic. At least of fiery type magic. Winter magic seems to have been happily wintering along up north of the Wall.
Agree
Book 2 quote:
"Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass. He had some small skill with powders and wildfire, sufficient to entrance a crowd while his cutpurses did their work. He could walk across hot coals and make burning roses bloom in the air, but he could no more aspire to climb the fiery ladder than a common fisherman could hope to catch a kraken in his nets."
Dany looked uneasily at where the ladder had stood. Even the smoke was gone now, and the crowd was breaking up, each man going about his business. In a moment more than a few would find their purses flat and empty. "And now?"
"And now his power grow, Khaleesi. And you are the cause of it."
"Me?" She laughed. "How could that be?"
The woman stepped closer and lay two fingers on Dany's wrist. "You are the Mother of Dragons, are you not?"
so yeah, either Dany or her dragons, at least according to Quaithe, seem to be the cause of Magic returning to the world.
0
Options
DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
Joffrey suffered few setbacks until that's all he suffered.
I mean... karma is slow in Westeros.
I mean, he is cowed by Tyrion on several occasions, he gets disarmed and shamed by Arya, Tywin disregards him and sends him to his room when he's getting to big for his britches, he runs away like a coward during the battle on the black water.
Ultimately Joffrey doesn't ever FEEL like he's effective at anything other than having his men beat Sansa. Whereas Ramsey feels like he is invincible.
Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
+14
Options
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I think the Roose death just screams showrunners needing to fill in details on how the story gets to him being killed by Ramsay. We have all heard numerous times they know the general outline of what happens but that now that they are beyond the book, its up to them to fill in the details. Well, they have proven time and again they are horrible at the details. They take the cheap and easy way every time. Dagger to Hotah's back. Dagger to Roose. Ramsay is being all crazy? Lets use the dogs again (dead mistress food) and again for Walda). This is all typical showrunner garbage. They don't care who's characterizations are messed up by them being lazy in their writing (Roose looking like an idiot hugging his bastard).
Dany and Jon (Book and show)
Just some thoughts on possible future romance between the two. I just don't see Dany coming out of all of this and somehow falling all teenage girl, ga ga, head over heels for Jon Snow just because of his flowing locks. I can see the showrunners doing this. But, no way the book Dany does. She got that out of her system with Daario, I believe. If anything, her and Jon will have some sort of political type, possibly even cold marriage, that looks like it could bloom in the future, but perhaps the story ends before we all know for sure if they end up happy. Just my take.
Response to second spoiler
PLEASE NO ANYTHING BUT THAT. He deserves better. Still hoping she gets eaten by Drogon. Jon can rule the world with Tyrion on dragon back. Yes this would be good.
to begin his death spiral in the next episode, trying to keep the plates spinning as all his enemies smell blood in the water
I don't want his fall to be heroic or dramatic. He's not a Big Bad, he should be the architect of his own demise and we should just barely see it happening since we seem to mostly get his perspective. It's also a perfect "the north remembers" opportunity. I don't really want it it be anyway involved with John and Dany stuff.
Joffrey suffered few setbacks until that's all he suffered.
I mean... karma is slow in Westeros.
I mean, he is cowed by Tyrion on several occasions, he gets disarmed and shamed by Arya, Tywin disregards him and sends him to his room when he's getting to big for his britches, he runs away like a coward during the battle on the black water.
Ultimately Joffrey doesn't ever FEEL like he's effective at anything other than having his men beat Sansa. Whereas Ramsey feels like he is invincible.
This is the key point. Joffrey was nasty but the world related to him in a realistic way, and likewise he was constrained by the world. Ramsay though distorts everything because he needs to be the Villain.
Her story has been disappointing again, it made sense when GoT first started, then she had that whole descend the stairs thing in black at the Vale and you figure she's going down the Littlefinger path to counter Arya going the Ned/Jaime path.
Fair enough she becomes a victim in that situation but there was chance for her to manipulate, instead she relied on loyal northeners who wound up dead, then she had to rely on a broken, castrated man to save her and ultimately he had to even try to sacrifice himself for her because she was giving up. The broken guy had to convince her to go through a bit of cold water versus be caught and taken back to Ramsay.
They basically gave a big finale to imply her starting to grow, and she's right back where she was in episode 1.
Ramsay is a big issue for some us book peeps (book to show opinion):
The show made him a much bigger character than the books. Much bigger. When the Theon and Ramsay stuff first started we had raised eyebrows as he was a very binary character even then and we were wondering how it would work. The show guys did a decent job at the start but we are now starting to see the issue with giving that much more time to what is at best a secondary character/plot piece character in the books. And thinking about what they cut in order to give Ramsay so much more time kind of makes some of us a bit angry.
To me the perfect Ramsay conclusion would be one of two options:
Him to fade into bastard nothingness again. Houseless this time because he killed his house. Or eated by the remaining Stark kids Dire wolves.
Her story has been disappointing again, it made sense when GoT first started, then she had that whole descend the stairs thing in black at the Vale and you figure she's going down the Littlefinger path to counter Arya going the Ned/Jaime path.
Fair enough she becomes a victim in that situation but there was chance for her to manipulate, instead she relied on loyal northeners who wound up dead, then she had to rely on a broken, castrated man to save her and ultimately he had to even try to sacrifice himself for her because she was giving up. The broken guy had to convince her to go through a bit of cold water versus be caught and taken back to Ramsay.
They basically gave a big finale to imply her starting to grow, and she's right back where she was in episode 1.
I heartily disagree. She may be physically close to there, but she's not the same person at all, and that's believable. Like, I'm pretty sure she could rescue herself if she needed to. That's not something I would ever attribute to episode 1 dany.
Her story has been disappointing again, it made sense when GoT first started, then she had that whole descend the stairs thing in black at the Vale and you figure she's going down the Littlefinger path to counter Arya going the Ned/Jaime path.
Fair enough she becomes a victim in that situation but there was chance for her to manipulate, instead she relied on loyal northeners who wound up dead, then she had to rely on a broken, castrated man to save her and ultimately he had to even try to sacrifice himself for her because she was giving up. The broken guy had to convince her to go through a bit of cold water versus be caught and taken back to Ramsay.
They basically gave a big finale to imply her starting to grow, and she's right back where she was in episode 1.
Sansa speculation
First, I think a lot of people read too much into descending the stairs in black. Remember, her aunt was just killed and presumably was being mourned so being in black was probably just mourning clothes and not a Darth Stark thing.
But I also think that she probably can't exactly do the Littlefinger path. Besides the obvious bit where Littlefinger got her into the mess, he's now twice demonstrated his string pulling doesn't work on people who don't think long term but are dangerously unpredictable. On top of that, he has comparatively little to lose being a minor noble if a grand gambit doesn't pay off. That's different from being the primary claimant to a title one level below the king as Sansa is.
IMO, Sansa's best bet is to hew closer to Oleana who is able to plot and manipulate but is also charming and likable in ways Littlefinger is not but likely doing more of the charm and influence as opposed to the plotting. Again, Sansa has a title with significant power in and of itself while Oleana does not.
It's not a lot to go on, but to date only Oleana and Sansa have accepted Brienne for who she is. The creator of the GoT recap images noted that Sansa reacting to Brienne's remark that Arya wasn't dressed like a lady with fondness likely meant something to Brienne. Doing that with your first vassal with chatter as opposed to grand statements could be a good start.
Or to put it another way Sansa's Diplomacy score is probably higher than her Intrigue score so her approach has to be different.
Joffrey suffered few setbacks until that's all he suffered.
I mean... karma is slow in Westeros.
I mean, he is cowed by Tyrion on several occasions, he gets disarmed and shamed by Arya, Tywin disregards him and sends him to his room when he's getting to big for his britches, he runs away like a coward during the battle on the black water.
Ultimately Joffrey doesn't ever FEEL like he's effective at anything other than having his men beat Sansa. Whereas Ramsey feels like he is invincible.
This is the key point. Joffrey was nasty but the world related to him in a realistic way, and likewise he was constrained by the world. Ramsay though distorts everything because he needs to be the Villain.
Joffrey had a power structure above him with options other than him.
Ramsay has what amounts to free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. He's the fucking affluenza kid, for a real world analogue.
I'm not arguing that he's a well-written character at all (and I can't wait until he gets his), but it's really not that bad.
Ramsay is a big issue for some us book peeps (book to show opinion):
The show made him a much bigger character than the books. Much bigger. When the Theon and Ramsay stuff first started we had raised eyebrows as he was a very binary character even then and we were wondering how it would work. The show guys did a decent job at the start but we are now starting to see the issue with giving that much more time to what is at best a secondary character/plot piece character in the books. And thinking about what they cut in order to give Ramsay so much more time kind of makes some of us a bit angry.
To me the perfect Ramsay conclusion would be one of two options:
Him to fade into bastard nothingness again. Houseless this time because he killed his house. Or eated by the remaining Stark kids Dire wolves.
Both!
Flees to the river lands after his house is brought to ruin. Eaten by Nymeria.
Posts
My brother had an interesting thought on that:
Yeah, the Freys may not like it, but what are they going to do? Attack the North? And they can't trick anyone like the Red Wedding, people are expecting those shenanigans now.
First and most grievously, he is boring. You know what he is going to do in any situation, because it's the most evil thing you can think of. This does not make for a compelling character. There can be evil characters, even gleefully evil characters, who are interesting, because they have more than one shade. Immediate example: Mayor Wilkins on Buffy. Hannibal Lecter for another, who's even a psychopathic serial killer like Ramsay (though personally, he works best in small doses). You could even maybe make a case for Roose himself as one of those characters, though he is not gleeful about it. Season one Jaime also fits.
Second, he never suffers any setbacks. Whether it's shirtless Ramsay confronting the Ironborn or Ramsay fighting the most gifted battlefield commander in Westeros, he always wins. Even though he's rash and kind of a strategic moron. This contributes more to the boring.
Third, the show wallows in his sadism. Obviously true in season three when he's torturing Theon, but also in all his other moments. The show lingers, like it did last night
At this point
The specific complaint about last night makes little sense. There's no reason to cut it short. No reason to respect our sensibilities.
I mean... karma is slow in Westeros.
waves were coming in
wouldn't the coffin just immediately float back to shore
What is dead may never tide
Also maybe you don't need all your archers to lay siege to a single room. You could have probably put a couple on actual watch duty. Which is kind of your organisations entire reason for existing. Would have made Sneak attack by giant a lot harder.
That would be amazing, if the Ironborn can't even get a goddamned funeral right they're so idiotic
I think they were afraid of the dire wolf more than anything else.
Book stuff.
There have been some sly implications that one of the seven, the Stranger, is at least a reference to the kind of alien, inhuman powers that seem to truly rule the metaphysics of Westeros (and is maybe even the death god worshiped by the faceless men and, maybe, the white walkers)
Wildings
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Dany and Jon (Book and show)
Ho ho ho ho ho ho, he, he, he, he, he.
The Short Circuit clip was blocked on Youtube, so this will have to do.
Well, the only religion where everything works exactly as its practitioners seem to think it does is the religion of the Many Faced God, of which the red god is one of the faces
"Poor Uncle Benjen, no one knows what happened to him. The curse of the youngest Stark."
"Yes, like your poor brother."
"My what now?"
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Book/show sorta stuff (bits and pieces mixed together)
I'd have to think that the Valyrian Freehold probably had something going on too, but I don't know if that was mentioned in the books.
Kinda book spoilerish (maybe?), or at least some info in the books that the show hasn't focused on
My interpretation is that there is no definitive evidence that there exists that there are anthropomorphic "gods" in this world any more than there is in ours. Sure they have magic, but that seems to be like another physical force that we just don't have in our world. People seem to have the ability to use it, but they can only guess at where it comes from. Much like people viewed fire or lightning before we had a better understanding of it. Like the Maesters are like the Benjamin Franklin's of Westeros, they kinda stumbled into how to harness wildfire just like Franklin (though more scientifically) found how to harness lightning.
Agree
Book 2 quote:
so yeah, either Dany or her dragons, at least according to Quaithe, seem to be the cause of Magic returning to the world.
I mean, he is cowed by Tyrion on several occasions, he gets disarmed and shamed by Arya, Tywin disregards him and sends him to his room when he's getting to big for his britches, he runs away like a coward during the battle on the black water.
Ultimately Joffrey doesn't ever FEEL like he's effective at anything other than having his men beat Sansa. Whereas Ramsey feels like he is invincible.
Response to second spoiler
This is the key point. Joffrey was nasty but the world related to him in a realistic way, and likewise he was constrained by the world. Ramsay though distorts everything because he needs to be the Villain.
Her story has been disappointing again, it made sense when GoT first started, then she had that whole descend the stairs thing in black at the Vale and you figure she's going down the Littlefinger path to counter Arya going the Ned/Jaime path.
Fair enough she becomes a victim in that situation but there was chance for her to manipulate, instead she relied on loyal northeners who wound up dead, then she had to rely on a broken, castrated man to save her and ultimately he had to even try to sacrifice himself for her because she was giving up. The broken guy had to convince her to go through a bit of cold water versus be caught and taken back to Ramsay.
They basically gave a big finale to imply her starting to grow, and she's right back where she was in episode 1.
To me the perfect Ramsay conclusion would be one of two options:
I heartily disagree. She may be physically close to there, but she's not the same person at all, and that's believable. Like, I'm pretty sure she could rescue herself if she needed to. That's not something I would ever attribute to episode 1 dany.
Sansa speculation
But I also think that she probably can't exactly do the Littlefinger path. Besides the obvious bit where Littlefinger got her into the mess, he's now twice demonstrated his string pulling doesn't work on people who don't think long term but are dangerously unpredictable. On top of that, he has comparatively little to lose being a minor noble if a grand gambit doesn't pay off. That's different from being the primary claimant to a title one level below the king as Sansa is.
IMO, Sansa's best bet is to hew closer to Oleana who is able to plot and manipulate but is also charming and likable in ways Littlefinger is not but likely doing more of the charm and influence as opposed to the plotting. Again, Sansa has a title with significant power in and of itself while Oleana does not.
It's not a lot to go on, but to date only Oleana and Sansa have accepted Brienne for who she is. The creator of the GoT recap images noted that Sansa reacting to Brienne's remark that Arya wasn't dressed like a lady with fondness likely meant something to Brienne. Doing that with your first vassal with chatter as opposed to grand statements could be a good start.
Or to put it another way Sansa's Diplomacy score is probably higher than her Intrigue score so her approach has to be different.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Joffrey had a power structure above him with options other than him.
Ramsay has what amounts to free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. He's the fucking affluenza kid, for a real world analogue.
I'm not arguing that he's a well-written character at all (and I can't wait until he gets his), but it's really not that bad.
Both!