Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Movie Steve basically does the same thing in Winter Soldier.
"You're not going to throw me off this building"
"You're right, but she will."
Cue psychological torture.
I think there's a bit of a difference between throwing a dude off the building knowing that Falcon is there waiting to catch him and he was never in any real danger versus straight up saying "I don't believe in torture. I think it's ugly and dishonorable. So I'm going to let my colleagues do it." and then actually just turning his back and letting Moon Knight stab a guy through the hand and Widow shoot another guy in the thigh and then pull out a knife and start slicing his face threatening to cut it off.
Like, yeah, in the real world the first one is definitely psychological torture but in superhero fiction the same sort of shit has been done by everyone from Spider-Man to even Superman and the important part is that there was never any real danger to Sitwell.
it's kinda like with concussions
like, in real life beating a dude unconscious (especially like, on the street and more or less barefisted) is a big medically serious deal, but superheroes do it regularly and it's fine. It's just how Stuff Works in superhero media, and within that same framework more benign scarejobs like throwing sitwell off a building thing aren't 'torture.'
Ellis' secret avengers went rather farther, though
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Ya'll are talking bout duress.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
turns out the reason they've never been able to properly replicate the results of the supersoldier serum is because one of the ingredients was a form of terrigen crystal. They've been making it properly all along, but Steve and the Bradleys are the only ones subjected to it that had Inhuman DNA
I know we've moved way past this, but something similar happened in the Mutant X universe. After Cap was lost, they tried out the serum again on a new recruit...who didn't know he was already a mutant. The serum didn't really agree with his powers, and it didn't end well.
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Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
finished Hawkeye
damn good series
Lucky
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Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
I wonder if, like, a hundred years into the future, a judge will ever go
"You know what, Disney? Fuck you. Just for giggles, fuck you, and now anybody can do anything they want with Mickey Mouse and you can't do shit."
Like, I quite like Disney as a company, but I just kinda wanna see that timeline where somebody said "Fuck it, the Mouse belongs to everybody now" and see what their strategy became.
it's not a judicial issue, the copyright protection extentions are laws passed by congress. Disney lobbies for it.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Disney lobbies for copyright extensions every couple of years, because they have to keep pushing it backwards in order to avoid Mickey Mouse from entering the public domain.
It's really sad, considering how there used to be an event each year where people would eagerly wait to see what characters had entered the public domain so they could tinker and play with them.
I would find it absolutely hilarious if Disney just failed in their lobbying just once and, in effect, caused Superman et. al. to enter the public domain as well.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Steve is indeed the narrator and shoved Jack out because he had ordered him to stay in the landing pad so he could try and talk to Zemo and, possibly judging from his expression, Selvig.
"This road has not been easy, and I have had plenty cause to doubt it. But even still, I hold true to what I believe-- and I follow in the footsteps of those who inspired me. You see, I dream of something better too. Hail Hydra."
Nope nope nope nope
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
new theory
Just because he was indoctrinated as a kid doesn't mean he is/was a believer. It just means he was taught their ways and secrets, initiated into their rites. I haven't read the issue so I don't know what flavour of Hydra it was - if it was just your standard Nazi Hydra this idea wouldn't work as well, but if it was the Brotherhood of the Spear/The Beast then that could make things far more interesting.
Cap has wielded Mjolnir (Thor #390 according to Wikipedia), which he wouldn't have been able to do if he was a secret Hydra mastermind pretending to be a hero all along, and beyond that I don't honestly believe that Marvel is making Steve Rogers a villain.
So maybe Steve's mom WAS a Hydra believer, and she taught young Steve about it, but Steve never truly bought it, or only believed until he saw the true face of Hydra during the war. He then spends years fighting Hydra harder than anyone, because more than anyone he knows what they really are, but as the saying goes, cut off one head and to more take it's place. And then he's old, his strength gone and mortality is staring him in the face, and Hydra is still there, still popping up every time it's put down, and he starts to wonder if there wasn't a way he could have stopped them permanently/ Or maybe that revelation came sooner - Remender's Cap did lay some seeds of an Avenger being a secret Hydra leader, this may have been in the works pre-Spencer.
Either way, Cap's back, and with a new lease on life, he's determined to take Hydra down for good. Taking out their leadership hasn't worked, so he has a new plan: become their leadership, and then shut them down from the top.
I also don't believe they are making him a villain. I totally expect Spencer to have the Hydra Steve grew up in be a socialist, liberal group in the 20s and 30s, like many actual groups, that became militarized down the road.
But like I've said before I don't buy Steve Rogers wanting to attempt to reclaim or redeem or rebuild the Hydra name in any way shape or form. Hydra has been among the most horrific organizations in the Marvel Universe for decades and has personally tormented both Cap and his closest friends and loved ones.
And this is doubly true if Steve is willing to kill Jack Flag for it. Which could totally be revealed as a fake out but looked pretty legit as portrayed in the issue.
I'm not gonna fault anyone who is interested in the series or story, but it is basically the exact opposite of what I want out of a Steve Rogers book.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
I also don't believe they are making him a villain. I totally expect Spencer to have the Hydra Steve grew up in be a socialist, liberal group in the 20s and 30s, like many actual groups, that became militarized down the road.
But like I've said before I don't buy Steve Rogers wanting to attempt to reclaim or redeem or rebuild the Hydra name in any way shape or form. Hydra has been among the most horrific organizations in the Marvel Universe for decades and has personally tormented both Cap and his closest friends and loved ones.
And this is doubly true if Steve is willing to kill Jack Flag for it. Which could totally be revealed as a fake out but looked pretty legit as portrayed in the issue.
I'm not gonna fault anyone who is interested in the series or story, but it is basically the exact opposite of what I want out of a Steve Rogers book.
I just read the issue, Free Spirit was still out there, had finished her fight at the same time as Jack when he took off to help Cap, and they all had those flying discs they came in on. There is no way she didn't catch him.
I also don't believe they are making him a villain. I totally expect Spencer to have the Hydra Steve grew up in be a socialist, liberal group in the 20s and 30s, like many actual groups, that became militarized down the road.
But like I've said before I don't buy Steve Rogers wanting to attempt to reclaim or redeem or rebuild the Hydra name in any way shape or form. Hydra has been among the most horrific organizations in the Marvel Universe for decades and has personally tormented both Cap and his closest friends and loved ones.
And this is doubly true if Steve is willing to kill Jack Flag for it. Which could totally be revealed as a fake out but looked pretty legit as portrayed in the issue.
I'm not gonna fault anyone who is interested in the series or story, but it is basically the exact opposite of what I want out of a Steve Rogers book.
I just read the issue, Free Spirit was still out there, had finished her fight at the same time as Jack when he took off to help Cap, and they all had those flying discs they came in on. There is no way she didn't catch him.
I am skeptical
Both because that would blow Steve's cover and that seems like a super early time to pull that trigger and that Steve is narrating in the past tense and says Jack Flag suffered a tragic fate he didn't deserve
Getting thrown out of a plane and caught isn't really tragic
I also don't believe they are making him a villain. I totally expect Spencer to have the Hydra Steve grew up in be a socialist, liberal group in the 20s and 30s, like many actual groups, that became militarized down the road.
But like I've said before I don't buy Steve Rogers wanting to attempt to reclaim or redeem or rebuild the Hydra name in any way shape or form. Hydra has been among the most horrific organizations in the Marvel Universe for decades and has personally tormented both Cap and his closest friends and loved ones.
And this is doubly true if Steve is willing to kill Jack Flag for it. Which could totally be revealed as a fake out but looked pretty legit as portrayed in the issue.
I'm not gonna fault anyone who is interested in the series or story, but it is basically the exact opposite of what I want out of a Steve Rogers book.
I just read the issue, Free Spirit was still out there, had finished her fight at the same time as Jack when he took off to help Cap, and they all had those flying discs they came in on. There is no way she didn't catch him.
I am skeptical
Both because that would blow Steve's cover and that seems like a super early time to pull that trigger and that Steve is narrating in the past tense and says Jack Flag suffered a tragic fate he didn't deserve
Getting thrown out of a plane and caught isn't really tragic
He could be referring to Jack's time in the Negative Zone prison. That's a fate no one deserved...
Really, though, comics do attention-grabbing misleads all the time, so I'm going to hold on to any character destruction rage until I see where this is going.
I read Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe last night.
It really made me want a movie with him. He's fun.
He's one of my favourites (I guess this suprises no one), but he's been so badly used in basically all the X-titles (why was he in them again? He has literally nothing to in X-Men apart from 1 issue where they use his powers to find out where all the loot from the Reavers came from and very little in X-Factor, where he was mostly used for jokes.) and somehow those things made him associated with the X-franchise, so Fox would have the rights to him.
Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
I read Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe last night.
It really made me want a movie with him. He's fun.
He's one of my favourites (I guess this suprises no one), but he's been so badly used in basically all the X-titles (why was he in them again? He has literally nothing to in X-Men apart from 1 issue where they use his powers to find out where all the loot from the Reavers came from and very little in X-Factor, where he was mostly used for jokes.) and somehow those things made him associated with the X-franchise, so Fox would have the rights to him.
eh, I'd say he's in them because Ann Nocenti was part of the X-team at the time of writing it (she had just written the Beauty & The Beast miniseries), and he was created during the time where X-Men were the biggest franchise in comics.
I think you're understating his involvement though. He was a member of the team in Uncanny X-Men for years, from the around the Mutant Massacre, the Australia era and Inferno, he married Dazzler and had a kid with her, etc
He's not a mutant, but he's been more involved with the X-Men than a lot of mutant characters have, far moreso than with any other Marvel franchise.
I know why he was included in the franchise, I mean storywise.
He was a member for years, but if you read the comics, he had almost nothing to do in it. He's added to the team in a story that focuses on the New Mutants. His plotlines were mostly being pulled between Rogue and Dazzler with little input from his side (which kinda refreshing to have a male character as the underwritten trophy love interest, but that aside). The married to Dazzler/having a kid thing was mostly off-page after he already had left the team.
During the Mutant Massacre/Australian era, all characters had plotlines and time spend on dealing with them:
- Storm: dealing with being depowered and the burdens of leadership. Second guessing herself on several decisions. Post-Siege: dealing with being a kid, Gambit and the Shadow King.
- Wolverine: mostly dealing with stuff in his solo-series at the time, but still had some stories focused on himself; encounter with Sabretooth during Mutant Massacre and the Reavers are almost all directly after him (especially Deathstrike), his healing powers being weakened. Post-Siege: Going around with Jubilee, dealing with the Hand and the Mandarin.
Ok, but those two are the A-list X-men of the franchise during that time, but the rest:
- Rogue: conflict with Dazzler over their past, Carol becoming dominant again. Post-Siege: Magneto and the Savage Land.
- Colossus: His injuries post Mutant-Massacre, dealing with his sister's changes after his disappearance, Post-Siege: becoming an artist in New York, living with Callisto.
- Havok: Basically forced to do so, Polaris being possessed, his relationship with Madelyne. Post-Siege: Working as a Genoshan Magistrate. (admitted a lot of that is only dealt with off-panel)
- Psylocke: Her fight with Sabretooth, unsecurities over being one of the more vulnerable members of the team, taking leadership after Storm and Wolverine disappear. post-Siege: The whole Hand Ninja thing.
- Dazzler: OK, Dazzler was also very underused during this time (though she did have a solo-series before). She is possessed by Malice for a bit, then there is some focus on her past with Rogue. She does initiate the girl's night off. Post-Siege: That Star 80 inspired story (which was a really weird movie to base an X-Men comic on, but that aside).
Longshot: during his first appearance in X-Men he is almost immediately grabbed by Mojo together with the rest of the X-men, resulting in a story focused on the New Mutants. During Mutant Massacre he's involved in some fights, but so are all charcters. Nothing really personal or that has him as the POV character. During most of the issues next, he's one of the characters that appears on panel to throw knives at opponents, none of the plotlines require him or affect him personally in any way (small bit in Inferno where he is affected, but the exact same thing happens to Dazzler and the focus is on Havok/Madelyne, Colossus going to find his sister and Logan/Storm meeting Jean again). Near the end of the Australia-era, we do get a subplot: we have a few pages of Longshot asking questions about his past (when prompted by Gateway), which immediately results in him leaving the team to recover his memory (off-panel), he returns months later for 1 page to grab Dazzler and Lila, then a few issues later the appear in Mojoverse for a panel or so. Then there is Jim Lee's final issue where he and Dazzler get married and disappear for years.
there's going to be a twist, right, because that's the stupidest thing I've read since possibly ever
I don't see any way for it to be that straightforward and, well, work. Not even from a "that's not the Captain America I know" perspective but from a "this makes any lick of sense given the past 70 years of comics" perspective. There's absolutely going to be a twist. I just can't think of any that make me like this development.
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Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
Like, I've been watching the original Transformers cartoon, which features an episode where an Autobot turns into a merman, and another episode where they travel back in time and fight a dragon with Merlin and Starscream glomps Megatron when they return thinking Megatron will actually return his excited robot hug
and the new Captain America is stupider than any of that
Basically either it is a dumb twist that is meant to be shocking and drive controversy and be meaningless or a GIGANTIC retcon that heavily damages the character in my opinion
Posts
There is nothing more that I hate than when they
it's kinda like with concussions
like, in real life beating a dude unconscious (especially like, on the street and more or less barefisted) is a big medically serious deal, but superheroes do it regularly and it's fine. It's just how Stuff Works in superhero media, and within that same framework more benign scarejobs like throwing sitwell off a building thing aren't 'torture.'
Ellis' secret avengers went rather farther, though
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I know we've moved way past this, but something similar happened in the Mutant X universe. After Cap was lost, they tried out the serum again on a new recruit...who didn't know he was already a mutant. The serum didn't really agree with his powers, and it didn't end well.
damn good series
oh my god, I didn't notice him before
I am like 1000% less sad now
it's not a judicial issue, the copyright protection extentions are laws passed by congress. Disney lobbies for it.
Steam // Secret Satan
It's really sad, considering how there used to be an event each year where people would eagerly wait to see what characters had entered the public domain so they could tinker and play with them.
I would find it absolutely hilarious if Disney just failed in their lobbying just once and, in effect, caused Superman et. al. to enter the public domain as well.
Boy oh boy does it look awful though
"This road has not been easy, and I have had plenty cause to doubt it. But even still, I hold true to what I believe-- and I follow in the footsteps of those who inspired me. You see, I dream of something better too. Hail Hydra."
Cap has wielded Mjolnir (Thor #390 according to Wikipedia), which he wouldn't have been able to do if he was a secret Hydra mastermind pretending to be a hero all along, and beyond that I don't honestly believe that Marvel is making Steve Rogers a villain.
So maybe Steve's mom WAS a Hydra believer, and she taught young Steve about it, but Steve never truly bought it, or only believed until he saw the true face of Hydra during the war. He then spends years fighting Hydra harder than anyone, because more than anyone he knows what they really are, but as the saying goes, cut off one head and to more take it's place. And then he's old, his strength gone and mortality is staring him in the face, and Hydra is still there, still popping up every time it's put down, and he starts to wonder if there wasn't a way he could have stopped them permanently/ Or maybe that revelation came sooner - Remender's Cap did lay some seeds of an Avenger being a secret Hydra leader, this may have been in the works pre-Spencer.
Either way, Cap's back, and with a new lease on life, he's determined to take Hydra down for good. Taking out their leadership hasn't worked, so he has a new plan: become their leadership, and then shut them down from the top.
But like I've said before I don't buy Steve Rogers wanting to attempt to reclaim or redeem or rebuild the Hydra name in any way shape or form. Hydra has been among the most horrific organizations in the Marvel Universe for decades and has personally tormented both Cap and his closest friends and loved ones.
And this is doubly true if Steve is willing to kill Jack Flag for it. Which could totally be revealed as a fake out but looked pretty legit as portrayed in the issue.
I'm not gonna fault anyone who is interested in the series or story, but it is basically the exact opposite of what I want out of a Steve Rogers book.
Both because that would blow Steve's cover and that seems like a super early time to pull that trigger and that Steve is narrating in the past tense and says Jack Flag suffered a tragic fate he didn't deserve
Getting thrown out of a plane and caught isn't really tragic
Really, though, comics do attention-grabbing misleads all the time, so I'm going to hold on to any character destruction rage until I see where this is going.
It really made me want a movie with him. He's fun.
He's one of my favourites (I guess this suprises no one), but he's been so badly used in basically all the X-titles (why was he in them again? He has literally nothing to in X-Men apart from 1 issue where they use his powers to find out where all the loot from the Reavers came from and very little in X-Factor, where he was mostly used for jokes.) and somehow those things made him associated with the X-franchise, so Fox would have the rights to him.
eh, I'd say he's in them because Ann Nocenti was part of the X-team at the time of writing it (she had just written the Beauty & The Beast miniseries), and he was created during the time where X-Men were the biggest franchise in comics.
I think you're understating his involvement though. He was a member of the team in Uncanny X-Men for years, from the around the Mutant Massacre, the Australia era and Inferno, he married Dazzler and had a kid with her, etc
He's not a mutant, but he's been more involved with the X-Men than a lot of mutant characters have, far moreso than with any other Marvel franchise.
He was a member for years, but if you read the comics, he had almost nothing to do in it. He's added to the team in a story that focuses on the New Mutants. His plotlines were mostly being pulled between Rogue and Dazzler with little input from his side (which kinda refreshing to have a male character as the underwritten trophy love interest, but that aside). The married to Dazzler/having a kid thing was mostly off-page after he already had left the team.
During the Mutant Massacre/Australian era, all characters had plotlines and time spend on dealing with them:
- Storm: dealing with being depowered and the burdens of leadership. Second guessing herself on several decisions. Post-Siege: dealing with being a kid, Gambit and the Shadow King.
- Wolverine: mostly dealing with stuff in his solo-series at the time, but still had some stories focused on himself; encounter with Sabretooth during Mutant Massacre and the Reavers are almost all directly after him (especially Deathstrike), his healing powers being weakened. Post-Siege: Going around with Jubilee, dealing with the Hand and the Mandarin.
Ok, but those two are the A-list X-men of the franchise during that time, but the rest:
- Rogue: conflict with Dazzler over their past, Carol becoming dominant again. Post-Siege: Magneto and the Savage Land.
- Colossus: His injuries post Mutant-Massacre, dealing with his sister's changes after his disappearance, Post-Siege: becoming an artist in New York, living with Callisto.
- Havok: Basically forced to do so, Polaris being possessed, his relationship with Madelyne. Post-Siege: Working as a Genoshan Magistrate. (admitted a lot of that is only dealt with off-panel)
- Psylocke: Her fight with Sabretooth, unsecurities over being one of the more vulnerable members of the team, taking leadership after Storm and Wolverine disappear. post-Siege: The whole Hand Ninja thing.
- Dazzler: OK, Dazzler was also very underused during this time (though she did have a solo-series before). She is possessed by Malice for a bit, then there is some focus on her past with Rogue. She does initiate the girl's night off. Post-Siege: That Star 80 inspired story (which was a really weird movie to base an X-Men comic on, but that aside).
Longshot: during his first appearance in X-Men he is almost immediately grabbed by Mojo together with the rest of the X-men, resulting in a story focused on the New Mutants. During Mutant Massacre he's involved in some fights, but so are all charcters. Nothing really personal or that has him as the POV character. During most of the issues next, he's one of the characters that appears on panel to throw knives at opponents, none of the plotlines require him or affect him personally in any way (small bit in Inferno where he is affected, but the exact same thing happens to Dazzler and the focus is on Havok/Madelyne, Colossus going to find his sister and Logan/Storm meeting Jean again). Near the end of the Australia-era, we do get a subplot: we have a few pages of Longshot asking questions about his past (when prompted by Gateway), which immediately results in him leaving the team to recover his memory (off-panel), he returns months later for 1 page to grab Dazzler and Lila, then a few issues later the appear in Mojoverse for a panel or so. Then there is Jim Lee's final issue where he and Dazzler get married and disappear for years.
We have grumpy jackets
there's going to be a twist, right, because that's the stupidest thing I've read since possibly ever
and the new Captain America is stupider than any of that
Guys you
You did this 3/4 years ago
Like Steve Rogers probably won't renumber, along with anything that isn't getting cancelled and isn't past issue...12 or so.
But they've said they like putting out a couple of trades worth of material for series and then relaunching as a new "season"
So I wouldn't be surprised if all of the books that have been double shipping and will be in their 20s/30s by then get relaunched or end
Take the Cap title away from Sam, give Thor back to Odinson, Hulk back to Bruce, Wolverine's alive again