As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Ferguson Thread

1707172737476»

Posts

  • Options
    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Draygo wrote: »
    I know specifically to what you refer, and one of the major problems Ferguson had is that its majority population of minorities was severely under-represented in local elected office.

    But they are not a minority in ferguson. They were very much treated like one. Not to say minorities should be treated unfairly anywhere here either.

    A minority doesn't become a majority just because one small town has a lot of them.

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • Options
    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    The term is "majority-minority district/city/whatever".

    They don't stop being minorities, or referred to as such, because there is technically a place where they outnumber white people. There's nothing to be gained from a conversation about insistent terminology to the contrary.

  • Options
    DraygoDraygo Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I just found a bit of humor in the statement.

    As I said, i'm fully aware that African Americans and other ethnic groups are minorities in the united states. And I welcome progress that changes the political class in Ferguson to better reflect the population proportions in that town. African americans in ferguson are a majority population, but they have not been represented as such. It will probably be another year or two before that fully changes and we see 2/3rds of the political class in ferguson be of a minority group.

    In Ferguson specifically, a minority of people were inflicting pain on a majority.

    Draygo on
  • Options
    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    It's not unique to Ferguson, and it's often WORSE in plurality municipalities. Suppose you've got a city that's 20% Hispanic, 25% black, and 50% white. Then take a wild guess what 100% of your local elected officials are going to look like.

  • Options
    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    It's not unique to Ferguson, and it's often WORSE in plurality municipalities. Suppose you've got a city that's 20% Hispanic, 25% black, and 50% white. Then take a wild guess what 100% of your local elected officials are going to look like.

    Jesus

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • Options
    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    It's not unique to Ferguson, and it's often WORSE in plurality municipalities. Suppose you've got a city that's 20% Hispanic, 25% black, and 50% white. Then take a wild guess what 100% of your local elected officials are going to look like.

    Jesus
    It's actually a big issue I a lot of areas, basically reverse gerrymandering - toss everything in open general elections, and let the higher voting rates of the ~45-55% white population utterly suppress the minority vote. It's something the ACLU is specifically targeting now in smaller and mid sized municipalities. I know of at least one in a town around here that's 40% Hispanic and has never in its history had a Hispanic elected official, for example.

    JihadJesus on
  • Options
    Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    It's not unique to Ferguson, and it's often WORSE in plurality municipalities. Suppose you've got a city that's 20% Hispanic, 25% black, and 50% white. Then take a wild guess what 100% of your local elected officials are going to look like.

    Jesus
    It's actually a big issue I a lot of areas, basically reverse gerrymandering - toss everything in open general elections, and let the higher voting rates of the ~45-55% white population utterly suppress the minority vote. It's something the ACLU is specifically targeting now in smaller and mid sized municipalities. I know of at least one in a town around here that's 40% Hispanic and has never in its history had a Hispanic elected official, for example.

    How exactly would they be targeting that? Even with everyone at full voter turnout, 55% is still a majority, albeit by 6%. I'm thinking "switching to proportional representation" but I'm not sure if it's allowed to sue a city/county expressly to change its system of government, since that'd be a thing done by referendum.

  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    It's not unique to Ferguson, and it's often WORSE in plurality municipalities. Suppose you've got a city that's 20% Hispanic, 25% black, and 50% white. Then take a wild guess what 100% of your local elected officials are going to look like.

    Jesus
    It's actually a big issue I a lot of areas, basically reverse gerrymandering - toss everything in open general elections, and let the higher voting rates of the ~45-55% white population utterly suppress the minority vote. It's something the ACLU is specifically targeting now in smaller and mid sized municipalities. I know of at least one in a town around here that's 40% Hispanic and has never in its history had a Hispanic elected official, for example.

    How exactly would they be targeting that? Even with everyone at full voter turnout, 55% is still a majority, albeit by 6%. I'm thinking "switching to proportional representation" but I'm not sure if it's allowed to sue a city/county expressly to change its system of government, since that'd be a thing done by referendum.

    Well, one way is applied use of gerrymandering - instead of just creating districts based on population, you look at demographic makeup as well, creating districts that are majority-minority.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I wonder, what is in the headlines today?

    Hmm, cops execute two black men in two days? Seems familiar.

    Oh right, because it happened well before Fergusson and never stopped afterward.

  • Options
    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was looking for a thread about it but I couldn't remember if there was a moratorium on them or not and in any case I certainly didn't feel qualified to make a thread about it.

  • Options
    SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Well this thread is here now so have a graph.

    Screen-Shot-2016-01-20-at-12.25.22-PM.png

    Speaks for itself.

  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Well this thread is here now so have a graph.

    Screen-Shot-2016-01-20-at-12.25.22-PM.png

    Speaks for itself.

    But see, that chart isn't actually applicable here.

    Because these two men were lawfully carrying guns.

    Which were used as an excuse in one of the cases.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    I get what you're saying but will note there's also a graph of armed people in the link.

    Surprisingly, it looks very similar.

  • Options
    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Is the black bar a percentage of a percentage, or a percentage of deaths

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    I get what you're saying but will note there's also a graph of armed people in the link.

    Surprisingly, it looks very similar.

    I believe he was being facetious.

  • Options
    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    Where do you get the idea that Alton Sterling was lawfully carrying?

    Most convicted felons can't own guns.

    (This is not to say he deserved to be shot)

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Where do you get the idea that Alton Sterling was lawfully carrying?

    Most convicted felons can't own guns.

    (This is not to say he deserved to be shot)

    Not been following Sterling, but Phil Castillo was definitely carrying lawfully.

  • Options
    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Where do you get the idea that Alton Sterling was lawfully carrying?

    Most convicted felons can't own guns.

    (This is not to say he deserved to be shot)

    Philando Castille reportedly had a concealed carry permit.

  • Options
    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    I understand Castillo was carrying lawfully but AngelHedgie claimed both Sterling and Castillo were.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Options
    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Maybe we should talk about how it doesn't seem to make a damn difference if you're carrying legally or not?

  • Options
    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    BLM thread is up now

  • Options
    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Maybe we should talk about how it doesn't seem to make a damn difference if you're carrying legally or not?

    Well technically he didnt follow concealed carry rules if he did reach for his license. You are taught to never do that. And to instead, after telling the police that you are carrying, to ask to get out and let them take your gun.

    Edit: This does not mean he should have been shot of course.

    Jubal77 on
  • Options
    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Maybe we should talk about how it doesn't seem to make a damn difference if you're carrying legally or not?

    Well technically he didnt follow concealed carry rules if he did reach for his license. You are taught to never do that. And to instead, after telling the police that you are carrying, to ask to get out and let them take your gun.

    Edit: This does not mean he should have been shot of course.
    Might want to read up on the case - according to the eyewitness, the cop shot Castile immediately after he said that he was carrying a firearm. He didn't get to ask to get out of the car and let the cop take his gun; he had already been shot four times.

  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Maybe we should talk about how it doesn't seem to make a damn difference if you're carrying legally or not?

    Well technically he didnt follow concealed carry rules if he did reach for his license. You are taught to never do that. And to instead, after telling the police that you are carrying, to ask to get out and let them take your gun.

    Edit: This does not mean he should have been shot of course.
    Might want to read up on the case - according to the eyewitness, the cop shot Castile immediately after he said that he was carrying a firearm. He didn't get to ask to get out of the car and let the cop take his gun; he had already been shot four times.

    Technically, as far as I understand it:

    1. Castille announces he has a gun and a conceal carry permit.
    2. Cop asks for license.
    3. Castille goes for the license.
    4. "He's coming right for us!" Cop shoots him four times.

    The cop seemed confused. Like he didn't register that Castille was armed and just asked for "license & registration" like he normally does, then what Castille had said said kicked in and he immediately went into hostile shooter mode seeing him going for his pocket.

  • Options
    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
  • Options
    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Castile seems like a pretty obvious bad shooting right away. It's still possible it wasn't - if you had say only the footage from the sovereign citizens viewpoint after whatshisface in Oregon had already been shot, it would've been easy to assume that he had been shot for no reason - but it seems very unlikely. The officer just doesn't really seems like he knows what he's doing.

    Sterling seems much more justifiable. 2 cops are called with a description of an armed suspect, they confront the suspect. During a struggle with the suspect (which we still don't know much about the leadup to) the suspect goes for his gun despite being warned that he'd be shot if he does so. It's not just one officer who treats it as an immediate threat either, both pull their guns during the struggle and he's actually shot by the one further away from the camera. That both officers respond the same way is an indication to me that they were both seeing the same thing and following their training. All he'd need to do is get his hand into his pocket to shoot one of them, waiting until he does so is not a reasonable burden for police.

    Sterling's death is ugly, and possibly not particularly great police work, but not a bad shoot. It kind of reminds me of the shooting in Arizona at a Walmart about half a year ago when a big crazy family tried to fight an officer for his gun and one of them eventually got shot at similarly close range. Castile, on the other hand, seems like a big fuckup, like the Joseph Schultz shooting by the FBI years ago.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
This discussion has been closed.