I don't necessarily see how that part is misogynistic. If it's a matter of "real people who cross-dress don't think that way", then fair enough. I won't claim to be knowledgeable about that.
But it looked to me like Chihiro made the decision himself, not because of any outside pressure or because it was "the right choice". I didn't really see anything in the story that suggested his cross-dressing was "wrong", nor his decision to stop doing it.
I don't necessarily see how that part is misogynistic. If it's a matter of "real people who cross-dress don't think that way", then fair enough. I won't claim to be knowledgeable about that.
But it looked to me like Chihiro made the decision himself, not because of any outside pressure or because it was "the right choice". I didn't really see anything in the story that suggested his cross-dressing was "wrong", nor his decision to stop doing it.
Do you know why it seems like we don't have any patience for you anymore, Snugglesworth?
It's because we don't.
I've started to see that it will never matter how many times I or someone else explains these things to you.
You never listen.
And more damningly, you never learn. You make the same mistakes over and over again.
You have a transwoman in this thread telling you that Chihiro's depiction is really shitty, and you are ignoring her.
As Dubh, Speed and I discussed in the episode of Games Witticism where we talked about DR, one of the major problems with that storyline is that her transness is portrayed in the game as giving in to weakness. She wasn't cut out to be a guy so she tried to be a woman. If she just had more self-confidence she'd realize she's totally still a guy!
So you've got a storyline that combines a bait-and-switch trans plotline with misogyny! Rad!
This is literally the first time I've had this conversation with Dubh, and rather than ignoring her as you claim, it feels like I'm being ignored for inquiring about her viewpoint. I asked about why Dubh felt that scene was so terrible, and she essentially said that she had no interest in explaining it to me.
The reason I'm asking is because I wanted to learn. If you already decided it wasn't worth the discussion because I wouldn't listen, I'm sorry for giving that impression. Just because I may not agree with your opinion doesn't mean I don't respect it.
It's the first time you've had this conversation with Dubh, yes.
But it still feels like deja vu, because it seems like no matter how many times we explain this stuff, we have to do it all over again when another example comes up.
And I know for a fact that TDOT tried to tell you the sequence was shitty, too, so this really shouldn't come as some great mystery.
I wasn't interested in telling you because I knew exactly how you'd react
and then you complained, and I responded, and here we are
look, there's some shit you can't fairly comment on
just how the world works
rest assured, there's plenty of things I'm better off not trying to pioneer an opinion about
such as anything involving people of color
because I will invariably screw it the fuck up
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I think I get the basics of it. It's not so much the actual scenario itself, person A experiencing it and B, C, D etc. reacting to it within the story, but the fact that the person or people that created the story, experience and reactions did not have any experience with this type of situation and created this story and experience from an outside perspective.
I think I get the basics of it. It's not so much the actual scenario itself, person A experiencing it and B, C, D etc. reacting to it within the story, but the fact that the person or people that created the story, experience and reactions did not have any experience with this type of situation and created this story and experience from an outside perspective.
...I think that sentence makes sense.
I think I caught your drift
and, yeah, that's about the size of it
it's like me, a total whitie (to continue with my example from the last post), trying to make a story about being black in western civilization, only to further a larger metaplot
also, the black character dies, and people choose to instantly strip them of their identity
IT WOULD BE SUPER INSULTING
go ahead and sub that with any group I'm not a part of, that's also kicked around in western culture
same story
not to say that people can't write stories about groups they don't belong to
but it takes a LOT of care and research to do
I guess it's too much to ask people to research things before they go on and write about them
edit: wow, I wrote more than I thought I did
Doobh on
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I wasn't interested in telling you because I knew exactly how you'd react
and then you complained, and I responded, and here we are
look, there's some shit you can't fairly comment on
just how the world works
rest assured, there's plenty of things I'm better off not trying to pioneer an opinion about
such as anything involving people of color
because I will invariably screw it the fuck up
Fair enough. I don't want to push for a discussion if the other party doesn't want to have it.
But I want to make it clear that I do not consider my opinion ironclad. I despise ignorance, and I am very much aware that I am ignorant in many things. That's why I wanted to read contrary opinions, and see if it opened up anything I didn't catch.
In my experience, Japanese media tends to need a "reason" for someone to be transgender. Chihiro felt too weak to be considered male, Naoto in Persona wanted to be taken seriously as a detective, etc. Being trans is considered to be just a phase that they move on from after overcoming their insecurities. Individually, these scenarios might not be a big deal, but when they're the only stories you hear on the subject they contribute to a greater cultural narrative that's harmful for trans people.
In my experience, Japanese media tends to need a "reason" for someone to be transgender. Chihiro felt too weak to be considered male, Naoto in Persona wanted to be taken seriously as a detective, etc. Being trans is considered to be just a phase that they move on from after overcoming their insecurities. Individually, these scenarios might not be a big deal, but when they're the only stories you hear on the subject they contribute to a greater cultural narrative that's harmful for trans people.
Japan also traditionally has issues with treating homosexuality as more of a pastime or hobby than a fundamental part of a person's identity. There's a lot of 'sure, go and have your fun with other guys, but just remember at some point you gotta get married and have kids.' Like they don't have the religious component of it, which is good, but there are still a ton of people that dismiss it the same way a lot of people here dismiss bisexuality.
If a trans person says they have issues with a narrative and they think it's offensive to trans people, I am heavily inclined to take them at their word because my personal opinion on it or what they should think is pretty damn meaningless
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited September 2016
So I'm playing Ultra Despair Girls and it's sad.
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
Huh, that's too bad. I left NIS just before work started on Ultra Despair Girls so I never got a chance to see what the story/gameplay were like, but the visual style and character designs seemed super neat. Sucks to hear it didn't turn out all that great
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
Huh, that's too bad. I left NIS just before work started on Ultra Despair Girls so I never got a chance to see what the story/gameplay were like, but the visual style and character designs seemed super neat. Sucks to hear it didn't turn out all that great
It's a shame because when the game decides to be good, it's actually a really fun and good game. Just, god damn, I wish Platinum gives them lessons in pacing or something.
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
Huh, that's too bad. I left NIS just before work started on Ultra Despair Girls so I never got a chance to see what the story/gameplay were like, but the visual style and character designs seemed super neat. Sucks to hear it didn't turn out all that great
It's a shame because when the game decides to be good, it's actually a really fun and good game. Just, god damn, I wish Platinum gives them lessons in pacing or something.
Yeah, my big worry when I first heard about the game was that they'd struggle to mash up graphic novel style storytelling and more fast-paced action gameplay. As far as I know that team hadn't really done anything like that before, and it's definitely a hard recipe to get right.
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
Huh, that's too bad. I left NIS just before work started on Ultra Despair Girls so I never got a chance to see what the story/gameplay were like, but the visual style and character designs seemed super neat. Sucks to hear it didn't turn out all that great
It's a shame because when the game decides to be good, it's actually a really fun and good game. Just, god damn, I wish Platinum gives them lessons in pacing or something.
Yeah, my big worry when I first heard about the game was that they'd struggle to mash up graphic novel style storytelling and more fast-paced action gameplay. As far as I know that team hadn't really done anything like that before, and it's definitely a hard recipe to get right.
As someoen who liked the game enough, they did not succeed. Also some of the story beats are just really....not good. That's more of an issue with choosing to have certain aspects of the story be what they were, but still.
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
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Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
AND ROLL THE CREDITS!
Like all the DR game, it ended really strong. Though it's really hard to recommend playing this game to get there. Have this give this game a 6/10.
Posts
I don't necessarily see how that part is misogynistic. If it's a matter of "real people who cross-dress don't think that way", then fair enough. I won't claim to be knowledgeable about that.
But it looked to me like Chihiro made the decision himself, not because of any outside pressure or because it was "the right choice". I didn't really see anything in the story that suggested his cross-dressing was "wrong", nor his decision to stop doing it.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Do you know why it seems like we don't have any patience for you anymore, Snugglesworth?
It's because we don't.
I've started to see that it will never matter how many times I or someone else explains these things to you.
You never listen.
And more damningly, you never learn. You make the same mistakes over and over again.
You have a transwoman in this thread telling you that Chihiro's depiction is really shitty, and you are ignoring her.
So you've got a storyline that combines a bait-and-switch trans plotline with misogyny! Rad!
The reason I'm asking is because I wanted to learn. If you already decided it wasn't worth the discussion because I wouldn't listen, I'm sorry for giving that impression. Just because I may not agree with your opinion doesn't mean I don't respect it.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
But it still feels like deja vu, because it seems like no matter how many times we explain this stuff, we have to do it all over again when another example comes up.
And I know for a fact that TDOT tried to tell you the sequence was shitty, too, so this really shouldn't come as some great mystery.
and then you complained, and I responded, and here we are
look, there's some shit you can't fairly comment on
just how the world works
rest assured, there's plenty of things I'm better off not trying to pioneer an opinion about
such as anything involving people of color
because I will invariably screw it the fuck up
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
...I think that sentence makes sense.
I think I caught your drift
and, yeah, that's about the size of it
it's like me, a total whitie (to continue with my example from the last post), trying to make a story about being black in western civilization, only to further a larger metaplot
also, the black character dies, and people choose to instantly strip them of their identity
IT WOULD BE SUPER INSULTING
go ahead and sub that with any group I'm not a part of, that's also kicked around in western culture
same story
not to say that people can't write stories about groups they don't belong to
but it takes a LOT of care and research to do
I guess it's too much to ask people to research things before they go on and write about them
edit: wow, I wrote more than I thought I did
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Fair enough. I don't want to push for a discussion if the other party doesn't want to have it.
But I want to make it clear that I do not consider my opinion ironclad. I despise ignorance, and I am very much aware that I am ignorant in many things. That's why I wanted to read contrary opinions, and see if it opened up anything I didn't catch.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
does DR2 work on the PSTV
Japan also traditionally has issues with treating homosexuality as more of a pastime or hobby than a fundamental part of a person's identity. There's a lot of 'sure, go and have your fun with other guys, but just remember at some point you gotta get married and have kids.' Like they don't have the religious component of it, which is good, but there are still a ton of people that dismiss it the same way a lot of people here dismiss bisexuality.
I was having fun. The first couple of chapters was a half decent third person shooter. Then Chapter 3 happened. And I'm not even going go on about the fuck up part of the game making humor of sexual abuse, that horse was beaten. Nah, somewhere in Chapter 3 the game forgotten that it's a third-person shooter and every fucking half god damn second there's a fucking cutscene where the game makes you sit through 10 minutes of talking about revelations that were obvious from the very fucking start of the game. JUST FUCKING LET ME PLAY THE GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME FUCKING CHRIST! Do I need a cutscene to go up the ladder?! Do I need a cutscene at every fucking door I'm about to go through? Do I need a cutscene after I solve every single puzzle?! NOOOOOO!!!!
All of these cutscenes have left you in despair! But that will pave the way for an even greater hope when you finally get to play the game itself!
Huh, that's too bad. I left NIS just before work started on Ultra Despair Girls so I never got a chance to see what the story/gameplay were like, but the visual style and character designs seemed super neat. Sucks to hear it didn't turn out all that great
It's a shame because when the game decides to be good, it's actually a really fun and good game. Just, god damn, I wish Platinum gives them lessons in pacing or something.
Yeah, my big worry when I first heard about the game was that they'd struggle to mash up graphic novel style storytelling and more fast-paced action gameplay. As far as I know that team hadn't really done anything like that before, and it's definitely a hard recipe to get right.
As someoen who liked the game enough, they did not succeed. Also some of the story beats are just really....not good. That's more of an issue with choosing to have certain aspects of the story be what they were, but still.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Like all the DR game, it ended really strong. Though it's really hard to recommend playing this game to get there. Have this give this game a 6/10.
ONWARDS TO DR3!
Ruruka is great and anyone who says otherwise is bad and wrong.
All character designs revealed!
The new protagonist isn't a generic ahoge dude! Or a dude at all!
Welcome to Kaede Akamatsu, and let's get started arbitrarily predicting who's gonna get offed first.
My money's on little spiky hat dude.