Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
of course it's fluid, because people are different. some people have a different threshold for what would bother them. you're seeking a definition that would fit everyone, which is preposterous. if you want it to be inclusive, you'd have to stretch the language to say 'assuming your partner regards all acts of physical and emotional intimacy with others to be troubling'. many do not.
in general, a person does have to exercise a series of judgment calls on which of their friends, loved ones, family members etc. they choose to confide into emotionally not just in terms of trust
in terms of that person's capability to not only directly empathize with your situation, but also in terms of that person's positive or negative experiences (or lack thereof) with whatever your situation is causing some kind of resentment or other serious misalignment of how they perceive you and your relationship with them
to some extent, this can be a "don't moan about your privileged problems to people who have it shittier than you, you insensitive prat"
but it can also go the other way, divulging to someone you trust about an issue you're grappling with that is completely outside their spectrum of experience in a way they find foreign, upsetting, un-envious, and not something they understand how to comfort someone over because they don't think like... that should be something that happens to a person they are friends with
it can actually be remarkably alienating to have a lot of really close friends who trust you with a lot of their intimate details and secrets and come to you for emotional support, and you can't really lean on them the same way because the problems you are facing are not only outside their experience, but could actually damage your friendship if you tried to explain
i have had periods of oversharing and not-sharing-at-all but generally speaking i talk about my problems and worries a lot. in spats, i cut down on it on the forums because i don't want to stew in it too publicly. i also don't want to clog up what are otherwise fairly lighthearted venues.
but throughout, whether or not i successfully limit my public grousing, i do talk to my friends about it through gchat or whatever. and i know they are my friends and will accept it, if i can't make myself stop vomiting my existential horror. but i very much feel like an imposition and yes, i very much feel weird because many of those problems are completely alien to the person. stuff about class or mental illness or several other things that are like, i appreciate you listening. i know you don't really understand, which isn't your fault but i regret this gap between us and yet i can't stop. aloneness is v scary.
it's a tricky thing
i try to strike a balance with the jokey-jokes so i don't come off as maudlin and exhausting to endure
this is harder to do at this point as i am battling suicidal depression on a daily basis so y'know
i'm restrictive with what i share publicly, and choosy with when and how i share privately, and ultimately i tend to vary between screwing it up in one way or the other balance wise
so, you do what you can
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
If it's cheating to your partner then it is cheating.(assuming you knew)
If you can't come to a consensus on that then that's not a working relationship.
true but like
that it is fluid is why there will not necessarily always be consensus?
if there's not consensus it's not because it's fluid it's because there has been poor communication or communication was ignored.
are YOU on the beer list?
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
he goes on:
Cheating is allowing another person into a level of intimacy your partner expects to be theirs alone. That level of intimacy is not uniform from person to person. There is no guarantee that your partner’s expected level of intimacy will be entirely congenial to you; in that respect what qualifies as “cheating” is not up to you.
Most people get that. Most people also don’t want to hurt their partner and/or don’t want to get caught doing something they know their partner will consider cheating. Which is why any other response than an unqualified “yes” to telling your partner about an intimate encounter with another consenting adult human being is a good first indicator you’ve just done yourself some cheating.
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
If it's cheating to your partner then it is cheating.(assuming you knew)
If you can't come to a consensus on that then that's not a working relationship.
true but like
that it is fluid is why there will not necessarily always be consensus?
if there's not consensus it's not because it's fluid it's because there has been poor communication or communication was ignored.
because people have different ideas of what constitutes fidelity
you can come to an agreement based on whose definition is more static to them
but there is disagreement because it is a fluid concept in the first place
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
If it's cheating to your partner then it is cheating.(assuming you knew)
If you can't come to a consensus on that then that's not a working relationship.
true but like
that it is fluid is why there will not necessarily always be consensus?
if there's not consensus it's not because it's fluid it's because there has been poor communication or communication was ignored.
because people have different ideas of what constitutes fidelity
you can come to an agreement based on whose definition is more static to them
but there is disagreement because it is a fluid concept in the first place
yes, there is fluidity in what the populous as a whole considers fidelity, there is not fluidity in what a couple in a relationship consider fidelity. You're either cheating or you aren't.
are YOU on the beer list?
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
he goes on:
Cheating is allowing another person into a level of intimacy your partner expects to be theirs alone. That level of intimacy is not uniform from person to person. There is no guarantee that your partner’s expected level of intimacy will be entirely congenial to you; in that respect what qualifies as “cheating” is not up to you.
Most people get that. Most people also don’t want to hurt their partner and/or don’t want to get caught doing something they know their partner will consider cheating. Which is why any other response than an unqualified “yes” to telling your partner about an intimate encounter with another consenting adult human being is a good first indicator you’ve just done yourself some cheating.
in general, a person does have to exercise a series of judgment calls on which of their friends, loved ones, family members etc. they choose to confide into emotionally not just in terms of trust
in terms of that person's capability to not only directly empathize with your situation, but also in terms of that person's positive or negative experiences (or lack thereof) with whatever your situation is causing some kind of resentment or other serious misalignment of how they perceive you and your relationship with them
to some extent, this can be a "don't moan about your privileged problems to people who have it shittier than you, you insensitive prat"
but it can also go the other way, divulging to someone you trust about an issue you're grappling with that is completely outside their spectrum of experience in a way they find foreign, upsetting, un-envious, and not something they understand how to comfort someone over because they don't think like... that should be something that happens to a person they are friends with
it can actually be remarkably alienating to have a lot of really close friends who trust you with a lot of their intimate details and secrets and come to you for emotional support, and you can't really lean on them the same way because the problems you are facing are not only outside their experience, but could actually damage your friendship if you tried to explain
i have had periods of oversharing and not-sharing-at-all but generally speaking i talk about my problems and worries a lot. in spats, i cut down on it on the forums because i don't want to stew in it too publicly. i also don't want to clog up what are otherwise fairly lighthearted venues.
but throughout, whether or not i successfully limit my public grousing, i do talk to my friends about it through gchat or whatever. and i know they are my friends and will accept it, if i can't make myself stop vomiting my existential horror. but i very much feel like an imposition and yes, i very much feel weird because many of those problems are completely alien to the person. stuff about class or mental illness or several other things that are like, i appreciate you listening. i know you don't really understand, which isn't your fault but i regret this gap between us and yet i can't stop. aloneness is v scary.
it's a tricky thing
i try to strike a balance with the jokey-jokes so i don't come off as maudlin and exhausting to endure
this is harder to do at this point as i am battling suicidal depression on a daily basis so y'know
i'm restrictive with what i share publicly, and choosy with when and how i share privately, and ultimately i tend to vary between screwing it up in one way or the other balance wise
so, you do what you can
i basically have to lie. even people who know about my problems will ask, how're you today? and i go, oh, not a good day so far but i am trooping on. and either they try to sincerely investigate- and i have to explain that sorry, just like yesterday it's not because i stubbed my toe or it's the anniversary of a death. sometimes i just can't feel good. and others will remark almost with exasperation like, again? why are you sad again? the people who get it and don't make small talk into waterboarding are a blessing.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I'll take questions about whether I can relate to any of your "emotions" or "relationships"
why haven't you smurged anyone
I don't think there's a way to answer this?
I've never been in a relationship
I guess I find that harder to relate to because I was so desperate to find a sex person when I realized my sexuality and I tried for years
And then I realized I wanted to a relationship more
But then I realized people don't want or need it as bad or have a whole bungh of reasons I've never even thought of not to
Idk
yeah I feel like it'd be great but I've literally nveer dated or tried to date anyone and am not the type to I guess try to hook up for a night or something. it would never occur to me and if I wanted to I would not really know what to do.
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
If it's cheating to your partner then it is cheating.(assuming you knew)
If you can't come to a consensus on that then that's not a working relationship.
true but like
that it is fluid is why there will not necessarily always be consensus?
I'm not saying it's not fluid, I don't think.
I'm not entirely sure the exact meaning of fluid here honestly due to what everyone is saying.
But I do agree that it's different for everyone and that's why communication is important to let each other know what your boundaries are.
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
he goes on:
Cheating is allowing another person into a level of intimacy your partner expects to be theirs alone. That level of intimacy is not uniform from person to person. There is no guarantee that your partner’s expected level of intimacy will be entirely congenial to you; in that respect what qualifies as “cheating” is not up to you.
Most people get that. Most people also don’t want to hurt their partner and/or don’t want to get caught doing something they know their partner will consider cheating. Which is why any other response than an unqualified “yes” to telling your partner about an intimate encounter with another consenting adult human being is a good first indicator you’ve just done yourself some cheating.
okay so yeah i agree to that but it almost literally defines it as fluid
within the boundaries of the relationship, I don't see any fluidity here at all.
that's not the disagreement. if people agree upon boundaries, then those can be relatively static. we're saying those boundaries are fluid across other relationships.
'did i do something wrong' in the micro sense is probably easily answered. there isn't much fluidity there. the point is that the high water mark of wrongness is fluid between different people, so you saying to your friend 'you did x? that's cheating!' doesn't make sense
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
If it's cheating to your partner then it is cheating.(assuming you knew)
If you can't come to a consensus on that then that's not a working relationship.
true but like
that it is fluid is why there will not necessarily always be consensus?
I'm not saying it's not fluid, I don't think.
I'm not entirely sure the exact meaning of fluid here honestly due to what everyone is saying.
But I do agree that it's different for everyone and that's why communication is important to let each other know what your boundaries are.
it's because i think there are two different ideas being talked about at the same time
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i dont even know what this means without context
but generally i would say that if you are physically and emotionally intimate, compartmentalizing a certain aspect of your life from your partner is emotional cheating by way of omission
but everyone, or almost everyone, does this to a degree
100% honesty all the time sounds like a disaster if you're with someone for a long time
I don't lie about things but there are many things I will not mention unless my partner directly asks about it (unless it's something like, I suddenly racked up credit card debt, have a drug addiction or cheated that stuff comes out)
Idk I feel like compartmentalizing is vital in many cases
I disagree and don't operate my relationship like that.
There are plenty of times when I just don't mention something because it's inconsequential or irrelevant, but if I ever feel like I probably shouldn't tell Belasco something, I immediately go and tell her.
I think the only things I don't immediately tell Querry if they make me uncomfortable are of the type "she did this thing that bugged me, but maybe I'm actually reacting to something else, let me figure out if this is worth addressing"
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
he goes on:
Cheating is allowing another person into a level of intimacy your partner expects to be theirs alone. That level of intimacy is not uniform from person to person. There is no guarantee that your partner’s expected level of intimacy will be entirely congenial to you; in that respect what qualifies as “cheating” is not up to you.
Most people get that. Most people also don’t want to hurt their partner and/or don’t want to get caught doing something they know their partner will consider cheating. Which is why any other response than an unqualified “yes” to telling your partner about an intimate encounter with another consenting adult human being is a good first indicator you’ve just done yourself some cheating.
okay so yeah i agree to that but it almost literally defines it as fluid
within the boundaries of the relationship, I don't see any fluidity here at all.
spool the communication problem you're having with everyone else here is the literal definition you're positing here puts the onus of judgment on the person making the decision whether or not to tell their partner
like, they're actually the person who decides if it's cheating
which means, by the definition you are posting, each person is deciding for themselves based on their own relationship standards and their own established parameters with that partner
because the judgment call of whether or not it's even something that you need to subject to that question is still relative to each person and relationship
i was very, very close with one of my co-workers at my last job, a lot of physical contact and joking around and stuff, i'm a tactile person and so is she
i did not subject this sort of activity to the very idea of the question Scalzi or you is presenting, as within the established parameters of my marriage with my wife, none of that would be a matter of concern for my wife, erego, it didn't even occur to me as something to even consider telling or not telling her
however, another co-worker, who has a completely different marriage standard obviously, said something to me about it like "uhhhh" and i kind of shrugged at it
now, in your opinion, because someone else thought it was an issue i should raise, do i know have to subject it to Scalzi's riguer when previously i hadn't even considered it?
or am i free to dismiss it out of hand, which is exactly what i did
because i am uncertain you are accurately assessing the potential damage of a "tempest in a teapot" of disclaiming things to your spouse that don't matter because other people tell you it matters
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i guess the definition is kind of fluid. some people say like, anything that, if your partner knew about it, would make them uncomfortable. but some people are incredibly sensitive and jealous and would regard any conversation in private with the opposite sex as inappropriate. i think that's kind of silly. something i heard that i thought was a pretty reasonable definition is if your behavior with another person draws away from your behavior with your partner. so like, if you don't feel sexy- you think your partner doesn't communicate desire to you or whatever- so you get that effect from someone else, by flirting.
i guess that doesn't exactly gel with polyamory but for monogamous relationships it seems p close to me. if you're not contributing all the thoughts and actions you would in a happy relationship because you're siphoning off some of that validation or closeness or whatever to another person, that seems p bad.
i think trying to define cheating so empirically isn't really going to work as it really depends on the sort of implied relationship agreement between two (or more) individuals
right, like i said it's very fluid. all anyone can attempt to do is make a best-fit guess at it for most people.
I disagree utterly. It's not fluid - here's Scalzi on this issue, and he is correct:
Scenario: You’ve just done something physically and/or emotionally intimate with another consenting adult human being who is not your spouse/partner.
So, gonna tell your partner?
a) Yes.
b) Any other response.
If the answer is “b,” then there’s a really excellent chance you’re cheating.
could be a and you were still cheating though
or b and you weren't
or you and your partner could not 100% agree on what counts as physically or emotionally intimate
it's fraught with peril!
he goes on:
Cheating is allowing another person into a level of intimacy your partner expects to be theirs alone. That level of intimacy is not uniform from person to person. There is no guarantee that your partner’s expected level of intimacy will be entirely congenial to you; in that respect what qualifies as “cheating” is not up to you.
Most people get that. Most people also don’t want to hurt their partner and/or don’t want to get caught doing something they know their partner will consider cheating. Which is why any other response than an unqualified “yes” to telling your partner about an intimate encounter with another consenting adult human being is a good first indicator you’ve just done yourself some cheating.
okay so yeah i agree to that but it almost literally defines it as fluid
within the boundaries of the relationship, I don't see any fluidity here at all.
that's not the disagreement. if people agree upon boundaries, then those can be relatively static. we're saying those boundaries are fluid across other relationships.
'did i do something wrong' in the micro sense is probably easily answered. there isn't much fluidity there. the point is that the high water mark of wrongness is fluid between different people, so you saying to your friend 'you did x? that's cheating!' doesn't make sense
yeah, the disagreement here, I think, is what is being described as fluid vs static
I think spool is saying, "in a given relationship, it is static"
others are saying, I think, "for all possible relationships, it is very fluid"
Is their a difference between emotional cheating and your partner having a complicated part of their emotional life that's separate from you?
i dont even know what this means without context
but generally i would say that if you are physically and emotionally intimate, compartmentalizing a certain aspect of your life from your partner is emotional cheating by way of omission
but everyone, or almost everyone, does this to a degree
100% honesty all the time sounds like a disaster if you're with someone for a long time
I don't lie about things but there are many things I will not mention unless my partner directly asks about it (unless it's something like, I suddenly racked up credit card debt, have a drug addiction or cheated that stuff comes out)
Idk I feel like compartmentalizing is vital in many cases
I disagree and don't operate my relationship like that.
There are plenty of times when I just don't mention something because it's inconsequential or irrelevant, but if I ever feel like I probably shouldn't tell Belasco something, I immediately go and tell her.
I think the only things I don't immediately tell Querry if they make me uncomfortable are of the type "she did this thing that bugged me, but maybe I'm actually reacting to something else, let me figure out if this is worth addressing"
That's awesome, but GOD DAMMIT DON'T BE LIKE MY WIFE AND THE ENTIRE TIME YOU'RE "FIGURING THAT OUT" YOU GET ALL QUIET AND MOODY!
are YOU on the beer list?
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Get new cats, eat those cats in front of them to display dominance
Easy Peasy
new cats will be like
yeah? and?
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+1
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Also most people never sit down and define monogamy, boundaries, etc, so it's kind of... well, fluid isn't quite the right word, but like, amorphous and unpredictable?
Like, fuck, even I haven't done that, instead settling for roughly what Spool's saying and trusting that I have enough of a handle on who Querry is that our definition borders match up fuzzily but well enough that no one's gonna destroy the other
Most people don't even do that
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
firewaterwordSatchitanandaPais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered Userregular
fire is roaring in the wood stove. feeling p christmassy. snow on the ground but not too cold! this winter thing can be nice. I'd be drinking a glass of wine with this nice moment but am going to my 2nd yoga class of the day in an hour because i'm becoming a crazy person and it's great.
Also most people never sit down and define monogamy, boundaries, etc, so it's kind of... well, fluid isn't quite the right word, but like, amorphous and unpredictable?
Like, fuck, even I haven't done that, instead settling for roughly what Spool's saying and trusting that I have enough of a handle on who Querry is that our definition borders match up fuzzily but well enough that no one's gonna destroy the other
Most people don't even do that
it's true
it's almost like lawmaking by court ruling
issues come up as they come up, and that sets precedent, and that precedent is what is considered the rules going forward
until an issue comes up, the rules are whatever each partner thinks the other partner thinks it is
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simonwolfi can feel a differencetoday, a differenceRegistered Userregular
Posts
of course it's fluid, because people are different. some people have a different threshold for what would bother them. you're seeking a definition that would fit everyone, which is preposterous. if you want it to be inclusive, you'd have to stretch the language to say 'assuming your partner regards all acts of physical and emotional intimacy with others to be troubling'. many do not.
it's a tricky thing
i try to strike a balance with the jokey-jokes so i don't come off as maudlin and exhausting to endure
this is harder to do at this point as i am battling suicidal depression on a daily basis so y'know
i'm restrictive with what i share publicly, and choosy with when and how i share privately, and ultimately i tend to vary between screwing it up in one way or the other balance wise
so, you do what you can
if there's not consensus it's not because it's fluid it's because there has been poor communication or communication was ignored.
oh I guess it must be some other personal issue then
within the boundaries of the relationship, I don't see any fluidity here at all.
because people have different ideas of what constitutes fidelity
you can come to an agreement based on whose definition is more static to them
but there is disagreement because it is a fluid concept in the first place
I guess I find that harder to relate to because I was so desperate to find a sex person when I realized my sexuality and I tried for years
And then I realized I wanted to a relationship more
But then I realized people don't want or need it as bad or have a whole bungh of reasons I've never even thought of not to
Idk
yes, there is fluidity in what the populous as a whole considers fidelity, there is not fluidity in what a couple in a relationship consider fidelity. You're either cheating or you aren't.
i think we're talking about two different things
if you and i agree that "this is what we'll consider cheating", then yeah, that is not fluid
but that we have to come to an agreement means it is by definition fluid as a concept
also these agreements are much more likely to be implied or not communicated until it becomes a problem for the other person
Get new cats, eat those cats in front of them to display dominance
Easy Peasy
i basically have to lie. even people who know about my problems will ask, how're you today? and i go, oh, not a good day so far but i am trooping on. and either they try to sincerely investigate- and i have to explain that sorry, just like yesterday it's not because i stubbed my toe or it's the anniversary of a death. sometimes i just can't feel good. and others will remark almost with exasperation like, again? why are you sad again? the people who get it and don't make small talk into waterboarding are a blessing.
yeah I feel like it'd be great but I've literally nveer dated or tried to date anyone and am not the type to I guess try to hook up for a night or something. it would never occur to me and if I wanted to I would not really know what to do.
I'm not saying it's not fluid, I don't think.
I'm not entirely sure the exact meaning of fluid here honestly due to what everyone is saying.
But I do agree that it's different for everyone and that's why communication is important to let each other know what your boundaries are.
that's not the disagreement. if people agree upon boundaries, then those can be relatively static. we're saying those boundaries are fluid across other relationships.
'did i do something wrong' in the micro sense is probably easily answered. there isn't much fluidity there. the point is that the high water mark of wrongness is fluid between different people, so you saying to your friend 'you did x? that's cheating!' doesn't make sense
maybe if you were better at starcraft
it's because i think there are two different ideas being talked about at the same time
I thank you
I think the only things I don't immediately tell Querry if they make me uncomfortable are of the type "she did this thing that bugged me, but maybe I'm actually reacting to something else, let me figure out if this is worth addressing"
why do you think I am the only person still playing
spool the communication problem you're having with everyone else here is the literal definition you're positing here puts the onus of judgment on the person making the decision whether or not to tell their partner
like, they're actually the person who decides if it's cheating
which means, by the definition you are posting, each person is deciding for themselves based on their own relationship standards and their own established parameters with that partner
because the judgment call of whether or not it's even something that you need to subject to that question is still relative to each person and relationship
i was very, very close with one of my co-workers at my last job, a lot of physical contact and joking around and stuff, i'm a tactile person and so is she
i did not subject this sort of activity to the very idea of the question Scalzi or you is presenting, as within the established parameters of my marriage with my wife, none of that would be a matter of concern for my wife, erego, it didn't even occur to me as something to even consider telling or not telling her
however, another co-worker, who has a completely different marriage standard obviously, said something to me about it like "uhhhh" and i kind of shrugged at it
now, in your opinion, because someone else thought it was an issue i should raise, do i know have to subject it to Scalzi's riguer when previously i hadn't even considered it?
or am i free to dismiss it out of hand, which is exactly what i did
because i am uncertain you are accurately assessing the potential damage of a "tempest in a teapot" of disclaiming things to your spouse that don't matter because other people tell you it matters
yeah, the disagreement here, I think, is what is being described as fluid vs static
I think spool is saying, "in a given relationship, it is static"
others are saying, I think, "for all possible relationships, it is very fluid"
d va sempai~~
That's awesome, but GOD DAMMIT DON'T BE LIKE MY WIFE AND THE ENTIRE TIME YOU'RE "FIGURING THAT OUT" YOU GET ALL QUIET AND MOODY!
new cats will be like
yeah? and?
Like, fuck, even I haven't done that, instead settling for roughly what Spool's saying and trusting that I have enough of a handle on who Querry is that our definition borders match up fuzzily but well enough that no one's gonna destroy the other
Most people don't even do that
is "down by the riverside" a euphemism or
Maybe your jokes just aren't very funny, em
*Takes a deep breath*
Maybe....maybe they suck
i honestly only ever bring up startcraft because i beat you in it one time
I'm stocking up on abortions in case they get banned
I KNOW GOOEY
but I will def drink a glass of wine after.
It must be
Caus my hearts still beating.
it's true
it's almost like lawmaking by court ruling
issues come up as they come up, and that sets precedent, and that precedent is what is considered the rules going forward
until an issue comes up, the rules are whatever each partner thinks the other partner thinks it is
raincheck yer abortions
What is delicious?