Of all the FF mains over the years, Squall was always the one I related to the most.
He was just a depressed, apathetic teenager. School sucks, life sucks, and then you get caught up in a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with you really (in a rare twist for an FF game, Squall really doesn't matter). Of course, FF VIII came out when I was a depressed, apathetic 17 year old myself, so that probably accounts for some of it.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I got this sad, lonely spinster vibe from Quistis. She's a student instructor, and probably 3-4 years Squall's senior. Not much older but a bit. And she is just suuuuuper desperate for that Squall D to the point that her obsession for him becomes her only defining character trait.
Choose the picture of Cid from when you first meet her, cleavage and all, makes the ending fantastic...Noctis walks up the steps, smiles at friends then looks at picture gets a big ole' grin. Noctis sits with Luna with Cids cleavage staring right at him.
I won't fault you for a different opinion. I must just have a thing for blonds, and older women, and teachers, and whips.
Actually they point out even though she's a few years thier senior and now a teacher, they are the exact same age, since Quistis was apparently a fight genius.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
So whenever people talk about how the story of FFVII goes now that images of the remake are coming out, I say to myself "how did I miss all of what they're saying happened? Because that story sounds good."
The problem is that I don't want to play through VII again to (re)discover it.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
So whenever people talk about how the story of FFVII goes now that images of the remake are coming out, I say to myself "how did I miss all of what they're saying happened? Because that story sounds good."
The problem is that I don't want to play through VII again to (re)discover it.
Well to be honest, I'm pretty sure you had to play through the game multiple times for it to make sense. Those playthroughs also involve talking to like everyone to get every bit of information. Playing the spinoffs like dirge and crisis core also kind of fill in some gaps. The story isn't very clear on the first run through. I hope square doesn't try to be too dramatic in their reinterpretation. They could easily make sephiroth just too grandiose and make the whole game just feel like "generic over the top jrpg" but for all the wrong reasons.
I think that the main cast in FFXV were some of the most developed, well-rounded characters the series has ever had. Their mannerisms and interactions were so detailed that I could imagine new situations for them and have a great idea of exactly how they would react. "Broad characteristics" is a pretty big understatement IMO, but you'd be right if you said they each represented one of the four temperaments: Sanguine (Prompto), Choleric (Gladio), Melancholic (Noctis), and Phlagmatic (Ignis). You could even assign the fifth, Eclectic, to Ardyn. Incorporating classical storytelling devices like that I think is a nice touch.
While I think they're good characters, I would agree that they're not used well in the story as I've previously talked about. And I won't try to defend the lack of character development they go through. Instead I'll ask an honest question, what makes a good character? I think too often in this thread we confuse likeable characters with good characters, and I know I'm guilty of it.
I think that the main cast in FFXV were some of the most developed, well-rounded characters the series has ever had. Their mannerisms and interactions were so detailed that I could imagine new situations for them and have a great idea of exactly how they would react. "Broad characteristics" is a pretty big understatement IMO, but you'd be right if you said they each represented one of the four temperaments: Sanguine (Prompto), Choleric (Gladio), Melancholic (Noctis), and Phlagmatic (Ignis). You could even assign the fifth, Eclectic, to Ardyn. Incorporating classical storytelling devices like that I think is a nice touch.
While I think they're good characters, I would agree that they're not used well in the story as I've previously talked about. And I won't try to defend the lack of character development they go through. Instead I'll ask an honest question, what makes a good character? I think too often in this thread we confuse likeable characters with good characters, and I know I'm guilty of it.
Likeable = good is kind of the same trap I see a lot of people fall into with female characters and the whole desire for "strong" characters which often gets conflated with physical strength/combat prowess when what I think people really want is fleshed out characters who feel like actual people rather than tropes to move the plot.
I think a huge part of what makes a character feel "good" is their reactions to events, commentary on things, etc. FFXV, while perhaps thin/disjoined in terms of the actual story/plot, manages to give you constant and unending exposure to the main characters and how they see the world around them. This ends up making them feel more like real people than just 50 hours of story-related conversations (with occasional side missions), even if the events and/or character traits are themselves not as interesting or developed as one might hope.
I'll make the comparison to real life: when I meet someone new, a conversation where I learn about their backstory and what brought them to this moment, that's interesting, but it doesn't really flesh out who the person is. But you spend some time together, do a bunch of things (even if they're mundane), and you start to find that you have an increasingly deep appreciation for who they are by how the react and interact with the world around them.
FFXV nails the part where the characters are reacting to the world around them and each other in a way that very few games do, IMO.
Good characters don't ask me to pull over and take a million photos or stop to see some chocobos while my kingdom is currently invaded. So many of their interactions just don't fit given the state of the world they set up
Good characters don't ask me to pull over and take a million photos or stop to see some chocobos while my kingdom is currently invaded. So many of their interactions just don't fit given the state of the world they set up
Well, that's kind of an issue with the Open World format. Look at Fallout 4. Any parent is going to be focused solely on finding their kid, but in that game you're almost immediately doing a million other things than that.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
Vivi
I'm not sure I can think of a single thing about FFIX that I liked. Some stuff that was harmless enough (Vivi, most of the soundtrack), plenty of stuff to hate (card game, slow pace, world design, story, 2/3 of the cast). At least VIII had a great card game and a better soundtrack, even if it was inferior in the gameplay department.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
Fleur de Alys on
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
Vivi
I'm not sure I can think of a single thing about FFIX that I liked. Some stuff that was harmless enough (Vivi, most of the soundtrack), plenty of stuff to hate (card game, slow pace, world design, story, 2/3 of the cast). At least VIII had a great card game and a better soundtrack, even if it was inferior in the gameplay department.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
No way, IX is great! How could you not like the cast!? You are crazy . The card game was pathetic though, yeah.
Good characters don't ask me to pull over and take a million photos or stop to see some chocobos while my kingdom is currently invaded. So many of their interactions just don't fit given the state of the world they set up
This is one of my primary complaints about the open world portion of the game: the main cast is just too disconnected from events as they're happening. There's no overarching sense of urgency because the primary villain (the Empire as a whole) is largely absent from the daily lives of the world's inhabitants, with the exception of a few outposts that are just there and the annoying drop ships that is.
That being said I don't think being a shutterbug is a bad character's characteristic. I know you're being factitious in this, but like I said I think the FFXV characters are great but severely underutilized by the story.
It's totally my own personal bias at hating tourists that take photos of everything and always just seem to in my way of enjoying the thing, so guilty, I hate shutterbugs, come at me
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
Vivi
I'm not sure I can think of a single thing about FFIX that I liked. Some stuff that was harmless enough (Vivi, most of the soundtrack), plenty of stuff to hate (card game, slow pace, world design, story, 2/3 of the cast). At least VIII had a great card game and a better soundtrack, even if it was inferior in the gameplay department.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
No way, IX is great! How could you not like the cast!? You are crazy . The card game was pathetic though, yeah.
(VIII is still my favorite though.)
IX cast
Zidane was a total chauvinist creep, and the "big reveal" felt awkward and damaging to the integrity of his character
Steiner was a "lol fighters" joke that went on for way too long
Freya started out badass, but then suddenly she was lovesick and hated herself and was useless with her man gone because women amirite??
Eiko was a six-year-old who was introduced with (and largely defined by) an unsettling crush on Zidane and also served no purpose in the game as a character
Amarant was irrelevant
Quina was one-note
Vivi was okay, but I found the whole black-mage-dolls story to be hamfisted and inappropriate for the setting, so that weakened him by association. Beatrix was alright, but she doesn't join the party and is stuck in a metal leotard. I liked Garnet, though.
Overall it's probably my least-favorite FF cast.
Fleur de Alys on
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
Vivi
I'm not sure I can think of a single thing about FFIX that I liked. Some stuff that was harmless enough (Vivi, most of the soundtrack), plenty of stuff to hate (card game, slow pace, world design, story, 2/3 of the cast). At least VIII had a great card game and a better soundtrack, even if it was inferior in the gameplay department.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
No way, IX is great! How could you not like the cast!? You are crazy . The card game was pathetic though, yeah.
(VIII is still my favorite though.)
IX cast
Zidane was a total chauvinist creep, and the "big reveal" felt awkward and damaging to the integrity of his character
Steiner was a "lol fighters" joke that went on for way too long
Freya started out badass, but then suddenly she was lovesick and hated herself and was useless with her man gone because women amirite??
Eiko was a six-year-old who was introduced with (and largely defined by) an unsettling crush on Zidane and also served no purpose in the game as a character
Amarant was irrelevant
Quina was one-note
Vivi was okay, but I found the whole black-mage-dolls story to be hamfisted and inappropriate for the setting, so that weakened him by association. Beatrix was alright, but she doesn't join the party and is stuck in a metal leotard. I liked Garnet, though.
Overall it's probably my least-favorite FF cast.
100% agree. I had the hardest time connecting with the game because I cared very little for the cast or their world.
Quistis would have been an awesome character if she had a character arc beyond the first 30 minutes of the game. She could have had a really interesting story where she moved on past loving Squall and found herself something to care about that cared about her back. As it is though, she has 30 minutes of development and then 80 hours of gazing at Squall from the sidelines and giving the back of my neck that stalkery feeling.
I love FF9, and I think Zidane, Steiner, and Freya all have more complexity to their characters than what you describe above, but that's just perspective, and we all have a different one.
I think we can all agree though that FFIX was the best post SNES Final Fantasy.
Vivi
I'm not sure I can think of a single thing about FFIX that I liked. Some stuff that was harmless enough (Vivi, most of the soundtrack), plenty of stuff to hate (card game, slow pace, world design, story, 2/3 of the cast). At least VIII had a great card game and a better soundtrack, even if it was inferior in the gameplay department.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
No way, IX is great! How could you not like the cast!? You are crazy . The card game was pathetic though, yeah.
(VIII is still my favorite though.)
IX cast
Zidane was a total chauvinist creep, and the "big reveal" felt awkward and damaging to the integrity of his character
Steiner was a "lol fighters" joke that went on for way too long
Freya started out badass, but then suddenly she was lovesick and hated herself and was useless with her man gone because women amirite??
Eiko was a six-year-old who was introduced with (and largely defined by) an unsettling crush on Zidane and also served no purpose in the game as a character
Amarant was irrelevant
Quina was one-note
Vivi was okay, but I found the whole black-mage-dolls story to be hamfisted and inappropriate for the setting, so that weakened him by association. Beatrix was alright, but she doesn't join the party and is stuck in a metal leotard. I liked Garnet, though.
Overall it's probably my least-favorite FF cast.
Well sure, when you actually write it out it sounds bad! But in my heart they were cool and that's what matters!
Quistis would have been an awesome character if she had a character arc beyond the first 30 minutes of the game. She could have had a really interesting story where she moved on past loving Squall and found herself something to care about that cared about her back. As it is though, she has 30 minutes of development and then 80 hours of gazing at Squall from the sidelines and giving the back of my neck that stalkery feeling.
Quistis kind of functions like Midgar. She is this familiar thing that seems to be an important part of the game, but then stuff happens in the first couple hours of the game that take you elsewhere. The slums and the eco-terrorism thing seem like they'll be a huge part of the game, but you hit the shinra building and that all changes. You do the little boss rush and then you're out of Midgar which doesn't matter again until way later in the game, and could have arguably been done anywhere else in the world. Fleeing the robot and ending with Quistis going ham with the 50 cal is kind of like the sector 7 pillar battle. Everything immediately after that is just a small bit of resolution to the very early miniplot and sets up the larger events of the game.
There could have been more moments for Quistis to shine, but the real story was between Squall and Rinoa. Every other character also had very little in the way of development. Irvine has the parade thing, Selphie pretty much just goes "oh no my old home has been bombed... phew everyone is ok" and then not much else. Zell just kind of exists, and the most important role he plays is the hot dog joke in the ending cinematic.
I love FFIX, but one thing that always bothered me in the game was Freja's in-game/cg design. Her original had drawn designs are great! but the for the in-game one, it looks like the modeler never got the memo that her eyes aren't supposed to be at the end of her nose, but behind her hair.
IT BOTHERS ME.
EDIT- hm. Further research. It might just be that one CG image that they use all the time that has the eye placement in the wrong spot.
PAX East had a FFXII Zodiac Age press conference and kept hinting at "big reveals" and "surprises" (as PC/Steam version hasn't been announced yet)
press conference went over collector's editions and steelbooks and preorder bonuses, alongside new gameplay mechanics and whatnot (which all look neat)
then the big reveal was done via a trailer and the whole 'Wait...there's ONE MORE THING for all of you, let's HAVE A LOOK!' hyped introduction and everything from the panel hosts
The Bros were just lost on me. I didn't have any attachment to them. Can't quite put my finger on why. I think I resented their combat AI too much.
I honestly wonder if I missed some crucial character building scenes, because outside of:
the rooftop scene where Prompto explains that he always feels inadequate compared to the rest of the bros, and Gladiolus being an idiot re: Titan fight and Noctis' depression following his (apparent, because the game does fuck all to demonstrate it) love's murder and Ignis' injury, and just the weight of responsibility on his shoulders
I didn't get any other character moments that help define who these people are.
This game reminds me a lot of VIII (which I also despised).
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He was just a depressed, apathetic teenager. School sucks, life sucks, and then you get caught up in a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with you really (in a rare twist for an FF game, Squall really doesn't matter). Of course, FF VIII came out when I was a depressed, apathetic 17 year old myself, so that probably accounts for some of it.
Nahh. Rinoa > Quistis any day.
MY WAIFU IS BEST WAIFU.
Both are inferior to Selphie by a country mile.
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I won't fault you for a different opinion. I must just have a thing for blonds, and older women, and teachers, and whips.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Even better?
Actually they point out even though she's a few years thier senior and now a teacher, they are the exact same age, since Quistis was apparently a fight genius.
Vivi
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
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Add me!
You mispelled FFXII.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Vivi is probably the coolest character post SNES, but there's no way ff9 is the best.
Also, Selphie is the worst character, her entire spiel is her going "WOOOOOO!!!" and being loud. #teamquistis
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
The problem is that I don't want to play through VII again to (re)discover it.
No one ever said he had good taste.
Well to be honest, I'm pretty sure you had to play through the game multiple times for it to make sense. Those playthroughs also involve talking to like everyone to get every bit of information. Playing the spinoffs like dirge and crisis core also kind of fill in some gaps. The story isn't very clear on the first run through. I hope square doesn't try to be too dramatic in their reinterpretation. They could easily make sephiroth just too grandiose and make the whole game just feel like "generic over the top jrpg" but for all the wrong reasons.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
While I think they're good characters, I would agree that they're not used well in the story as I've previously talked about. And I won't try to defend the lack of character development they go through. Instead I'll ask an honest question, what makes a good character? I think too often in this thread we confuse likeable characters with good characters, and I know I'm guilty of it.
Likeable = good is kind of the same trap I see a lot of people fall into with female characters and the whole desire for "strong" characters which often gets conflated with physical strength/combat prowess when what I think people really want is fleshed out characters who feel like actual people rather than tropes to move the plot.
I think a huge part of what makes a character feel "good" is their reactions to events, commentary on things, etc. FFXV, while perhaps thin/disjoined in terms of the actual story/plot, manages to give you constant and unending exposure to the main characters and how they see the world around them. This ends up making them feel more like real people than just 50 hours of story-related conversations (with occasional side missions), even if the events and/or character traits are themselves not as interesting or developed as one might hope.
I'll make the comparison to real life: when I meet someone new, a conversation where I learn about their backstory and what brought them to this moment, that's interesting, but it doesn't really flesh out who the person is. But you spend some time together, do a bunch of things (even if they're mundane), and you start to find that you have an increasingly deep appreciation for who they are by how the react and interact with the world around them.
FFXV nails the part where the characters are reacting to the world around them and each other in a way that very few games do, IMO.
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Well, that's kind of an issue with the Open World format. Look at Fallout 4. Any parent is going to be focused solely on finding their kid, but in that game you're almost immediately doing a million other things than that.
Oh wait! The FMV at the end of disc 1. That was cool.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
No way, IX is great! How could you not like the cast!? You are crazy
(VIII is still my favorite though.)
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
This is one of my primary complaints about the open world portion of the game: the main cast is just too disconnected from events as they're happening. There's no overarching sense of urgency because the primary villain (the Empire as a whole) is largely absent from the daily lives of the world's inhabitants, with the exception of a few outposts that are just there and the annoying drop ships that is.
That being said I don't think being a shutterbug is a bad character's characteristic. I know you're being factitious in this, but like I said I think the FFXV characters are great but severely underutilized by the story.
Steiner was a "lol fighters" joke that went on for way too long
Freya started out badass, but then suddenly she was lovesick and hated herself and was useless with her man gone because women amirite??
Eiko was a six-year-old who was introduced with (and largely defined by) an unsettling crush on Zidane and also served no purpose in the game as a character
Amarant was irrelevant
Quina was one-note
Vivi was okay, but I found the whole black-mage-dolls story to be hamfisted and inappropriate for the setting, so that weakened him by association. Beatrix was alright, but she doesn't join the party and is stuck in a metal leotard. I liked Garnet, though.
Overall it's probably my least-favorite FF cast.
100% agree. I had the hardest time connecting with the game because I cared very little for the cast or their world.
Well sure, when you actually write it out it sounds bad! But in my heart they were cool and that's what matters!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Quistis kind of functions like Midgar. She is this familiar thing that seems to be an important part of the game, but then stuff happens in the first couple hours of the game that take you elsewhere. The slums and the eco-terrorism thing seem like they'll be a huge part of the game, but you hit the shinra building and that all changes. You do the little boss rush and then you're out of Midgar which doesn't matter again until way later in the game, and could have arguably been done anywhere else in the world. Fleeing the robot and ending with Quistis going ham with the 50 cal is kind of like the sector 7 pillar battle. Everything immediately after that is just a small bit of resolution to the very early miniplot and sets up the larger events of the game.
There could have been more moments for Quistis to shine, but the real story was between Squall and Rinoa. Every other character also had very little in the way of development. Irvine has the parade thing, Selphie pretty much just goes "oh no my old home has been bombed... phew everyone is ok" and then not much else. Zell just kind of exists, and the most important role he plays is the hot dog joke in the ending cinematic.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
See also: Persona 1 & 2
(This theme is GONE from the remake by the way.)
You say that, but FF13 has some distinctive themes for the characters too.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
True. Kind of an exception, though. (One of many things I love about FF13.)
IT BOTHERS ME.
EDIT- hm. Further research. It might just be that one CG image that they use all the time that has the eye placement in the wrong spot.
press conference went over collector's editions and steelbooks and preorder bonuses, alongside new gameplay mechanics and whatnot (which all look neat)
then the big reveal was done via a trailer and the whole 'Wait...there's ONE MORE THING for all of you, let's HAVE A LOOK!' hyped introduction and everything from the panel hosts
good troll Square
As usual for SE Store exclusives, the price is absurd. World of Final Fantasy is the only CE I felt was worth the price.
It's a shame, since they look really cool, even though they are the most disappointing villains in the history of FF.
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Wish granted:
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I honestly wonder if I missed some crucial character building scenes, because outside of:
I didn't get any other character moments that help define who these people are.
This game reminds me a lot of VIII (which I also despised).
There is, the Limited Edition:
EDIT: Beat'd
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