you had a cashless society and all transactions are tracked centrally by the government so at point of sale it determines your rate based on your current spend for the year
but uh... people tend to not like the idea of the government tracking all transactions
You get a letter from the IRS.
"You bought a buttplug recently, would you be interested in another buttplug?"
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital
There's a window before national players can get into the game because they expose themselves to federal attention. Right now, regional industry can get a foothold that will translate into mindshare, goodwill, and market positioning they can use to fight off the behemoths once federal laws disappear. It's to the State's advantage right now to leave as much profit in the industry as it can, so the companies are resilient when the major players do arrive.
What you've got now is a situation where the State takes their cash like a hedge fund extracting the profit out of a business before letting it collapse. Long-term sustainability of an industry is not on their radar. They're vulture capitalists!
0
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man
Rest In Peace Pepe ;_;
but who bakes a pot of water to make it boil?
y'all are high
Yes
We're high and poor because we've been taxed into stoner poverty by the greedy state
I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.
Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!
or em
stay with me
it could also be that taxes are theft
I remember when I first read this argument as a vulnerable adolescent and the membranes of my mind opened to an intoxicating new dimension and I teetered on the precipice of libertarianism
It felt so true; the knowledge that this system was essentially arbitrary and implemented by force was the kind of endorphin hit that I imagine conspiracy theorists get when they read a new, more sweeping theory
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
Empty farmland... empty...
well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.
global warming?
as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains
Nah the area could become an agricultural powerhouse. Just the margins are so low, the regs were growing and getting expensive and the importing of goods was eating into the industry.
On a grossly basic front.
is there much of a point to being an agricultural powerhouse if the margins are super low?
the food industry always struck me as a welfare one, generally supported by government subsidy
(which is fine, people need to eat food being cheap is a benefit to the populace)
I guess you get jobs but farming is pretty heavy on the automation anyway right and then manual jobs are crappy temp work? (and ofc the stereotype is that those jobs are gonna be under the table anyway, dunno how true that is)
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.
Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!
this is one of the most perplexing things about the US
like
I really don't give a shit right now how much of the price is what. What I am interested in, is this burger. I wish to know how many moneys you would like in return for a burger.
+1
Options
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital
There's a window before national players can get into the game because they expose themselves to federal attention. Right now, regional industry can get a foothold that will translate into mindshare, goodwill, and market positioning they can use to fight off the behemoths once federal laws disappear. It's to the State's advantage right now to leave as much profit in the industry as it can, so the companies are resilient when the major players do arrive.
What you've got now is a situation where the State takes their cash like a hedge fund extracting the profit out of a business before letting it collapse. Long-term sustainability of an industry is not on their radar. They're vulture capitalists!
um
i'm pretty sure it would be like what is happening with craft beer right now
a hand full of regional players snatched up by major companies and distributed nationally
+1
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
I think it's like VAT refunds where you get the money back later, enabling a system like income tax where you don't have to pay the first twenty grand or whatever?
That is FairTax, which is not exactly a progressive system. If you're taxing people at the consumption level, it's gonna be at least somewhat regressive pretty much no matter what you do, and stuff like the prebate only mitigates it to an extent.
Just do a progressive income tax!
no it's not
here i'll just look up an article instead of trying to explain
I mean the guy's from a conservative institute so I am not sure if this makes your point it's a liberal taxation scheme.
The issue with the tax as proposed is either that it requires an extremely high tax rate with a rebate, which still hurts the poor, or requires massive effort into determining your consumption rate and has pretty wonky revenue streams; his proposal appears to be the latter. The latter doesn't really screw over people who are worse off as much as a rebate but it seems really, really impractical implementation-wise.
my point was that it was favored by liberal economists, not that it's a liberal taxation scheme
turns out it's favored by liberals and conservatives alike!
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
How would that keep us from sliding into neo-feudalism? I didn't read the article but it seems like they're missing the part where the rich horde far more than they consume.
I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.
Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!
Shit where do you live?
Even in LA the sales tax is 10%.
Canada. We have the general sales tax and the provincial sales tax, which have been combined into the harmonized sales tax, which is the Frenchest possible word for the stupid thing
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year
income - savings = consumption
tax the consumption
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man
Rest In Peace Pepe ;_;
but who bakes a pot of water to make it boil?
y'all are high
Yes
We're high and poor because we've been taxed into stoner poverty by the greedy state
And the analogy is busted because if you throw a frog in boiling water it just dies.
Glenn Beck did it, with predictable results. I believe it was even related to taxes at that.
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
For the love of God we need to FUCKING REDUCE what's tied to SSNs.
+1
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
How would that keep us from sliding into neo-feudalism? I didn't read the article but it seems like they're missing the part where the rich horde far more than they consume.
idk im not an economist i just thought this was p interesting when i read it. enough that it was still stuck in my head 5 years later
Sir Landshark on
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
Empty farmland... empty...
well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.
global warming?
as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains
Nah the area could become an agricultural powerhouse. Just the margins are so low, the regs were growing and getting expensive and the importing of goods was eating into the industry.
On a grossly basic front.
is there much of a point to being an agricultural powerhouse if the margins are super low?
the food industry always struck me as a welfare one, generally supported by government subsidy
(which is fine, people need to eat food being cheap is a benefit to the populace)
I guess you get jobs but farming is pretty heavy on the automation anyway right and then manual jobs are crappy temp work? (and ofc the stereotype is that those jobs are gonna be under the table anyway, dunno how true that is)
Oh I just meant potential. Like if shit were to go down in the world we could grow a lot of shit here. The farming margins have been horrible since we moved into a luxury state.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
like, if weed was legalized tomorrow i imagine every grow operation in a state with legal weed would get an offer from some large conglomerate and the industry would flip from the wild west that it is now to basically be liquor
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
sales tax in montgomery is 10% so its really easy to calculate.
8.25% here
it was 8.25% in prattville but the former mayor invested the city in some new construction right before the market collapse and they raised it to 9% or 9.5% to get the city out of crippling debt
they've already paid back like 80% so i guess its working
Bless your heart.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
as in like, groceries. Eating in a restaurant is 25% VAT. Which is why McDonalds has two prices on everything on the menu, depending on if you sit down there or not. Because one is eating at a restaurant, the other is selling food.
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year
income - savings = consumption
tax the consumption
Huh
Interesting
Dunno how to craft it to make it progressive given the
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
For the love of God we need to FUCKING REDUCE what's tied to SSNs.
Was trying to think of how to make it progressive
If they had any sense they'd develop a new secure ssn addition instead of grafting more shit into it, yes
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies
Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year
income - savings = consumption
tax the consumption
if you got to deduct 100% of your retirement savings that would be nutzo
i wonder how capital gains would work in a system like that
Conversely, I would rather pay more income tax (and have wealthier people and organizations pay even more on top of that) and eliminate sales tax altogether
Posts
"You bought a buttplug recently, would you be interested in another buttplug?"
Even in LA the sales tax is 10%.
There's a window before national players can get into the game because they expose themselves to federal attention. Right now, regional industry can get a foothold that will translate into mindshare, goodwill, and market positioning they can use to fight off the behemoths once federal laws disappear. It's to the State's advantage right now to leave as much profit in the industry as it can, so the companies are resilient when the major players do arrive.
What you've got now is a situation where the State takes their cash like a hedge fund extracting the profit out of a business before letting it collapse. Long-term sustainability of an industry is not on their radar. They're vulture capitalists!
i just round to 10 for ease of calculation anyway
Yes
We're high and poor because we've been taxed into stoner poverty by the greedy state
The ticket said the doors to the plane closed 15 minutes prior to departure
(I got in)
:cool:
I remember when I first read this argument as a vulnerable adolescent and the membranes of my mind opened to an intoxicating new dimension and I teetered on the precipice of libertarianism
It felt so true; the knowledge that this system was essentially arbitrary and implemented by force was the kind of endorphin hit that I imagine conspiracy theorists get when they read a new, more sweeping theory
8.25% here
is there much of a point to being an agricultural powerhouse if the margins are super low?
the food industry always struck me as a welfare one, generally supported by government subsidy
(which is fine, people need to eat food being cheap is a benefit to the populace)
I guess you get jobs but farming is pretty heavy on the automation anyway right and then manual jobs are crappy temp work? (and ofc the stereotype is that those jobs are gonna be under the table anyway, dunno how true that is)
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Hmm
Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
this is one of the most perplexing things about the US
like
I really don't give a shit right now how much of the price is what. What I am interested in, is this burger. I wish to know how many moneys you would like in return for a burger.
um
i'm pretty sure it would be like what is happening with craft beer right now
a hand full of regional players snatched up by major companies and distributed nationally
my point was that it was favored by liberal economists, not that it's a liberal taxation scheme
turns out it's favored by liberals and conservatives alike!
How would that keep us from sliding into neo-feudalism? I didn't read the article but it seems like they're missing the part where the rich horde far more than they consume.
I could be convinced to come out of retirement for one last big score
@jungleroomx
Canada. We have the general sales tax and the provincial sales tax, which have been combined into the harmonized sales tax, which is the Frenchest possible word for the stupid thing
would certainly make retirement planning a lot simpler
the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year
income - savings = consumption
tax the consumption
Glenn Beck did it, with predictable results. I believe it was even related to taxes at that.
idk im not an economist i just thought this was p interesting when i read it. enough that it was still stuck in my head 5 years later
I am deeply insulted
Oh I just meant potential. Like if shit were to go down in the world we could grow a lot of shit here. The farming margins have been horrible since we moved into a luxury state.
it was 8.25% in prattville but the former mayor invested the city in some new construction right before the market collapse and they raised it to 9% or 9.5% to get the city out of crippling debt
they've already paid back like 80% so i guess its working
do you live in north america
This is not how the word is used, you psychopath
They just straight up pay on their gross
Yeah but that screws a lot of poorer folks.
but 15% for food and drink
as in like, groceries. Eating in a restaurant is 25% VAT. Which is why McDonalds has two prices on everything on the menu, depending on if you sit down there or not. Because one is eating at a restaurant, the other is selling food.
What if we burn them at the stake of weed tho
Huh
Interesting
Dunno how to craft it to make it progressive given the
Was trying to think of how to make it progressive
If they had any sense they'd develop a new secure ssn addition instead of grafting more shit into it, yes
if you got to deduct 100% of your retirement savings that would be nutzo
i wonder how capital gains would work in a system like that
bad.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
I mean, 'Evil' is right there in your username ...