Fire would be been harder for WW to absorb and reflect. And lightning is a common symbol of divine power, so it's a convenient demonstration of WE being a God.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Best DCU movie so far! I'd give it an B+! For reference, I'd give Superman a B-, BvS a D-, and Suicide Squad a D.
Pros
- Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
- Bright colors on her home Island. I loved everything about her home.
- Good dialogue with actual jokes! I think this is the first DC movie I've walked away from feeling something other than exhaustion. Really glad they had actual light-hearted moments.
- Origin story without feeling like it was one. This could be because I didn't really know WW's origin story, but it feels like they didn't dwell all that long on it.
- The fight scenes were amazing. Yes I know I already said it, but they were really really good. Like for real the slowdown sections were great. I loved her use of the lasso (never thought I would say that) and shield.
- Gal Gadot did a great job as Wonder Woman. She's my favorite character in the DCU now, easily. I think she did a better job acting than Affleck or Superman dude.
Cons
- Whole Ares thing fell flat at the end both the physical fight and the greater character conflict. Super weak ending to a great first and decent second act.
- 2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
- Blocking bullets with her gauntlets is just dumb. I can see doing it every once in a while, but literally doing it all the time was stupid. Especially as she was running between the trenches. Like her thighs are completely exposed and she never once blocked low. They should have given her a full body suit and then used the gauntlets to block any shots to her head. Or better yet, bring her gear up to the times and just have the gauntlets like obliterate all ranged weaponry fire at her, like a personal force shield or something.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
- Some of the shots were ridiculously eye-rolling. Like when she stood up out of the trench for the first time. Or when she was suspended ready to deal the final blow. Or when she was super angry that Steve died and went ham on all the soldiers, it was like they were trying to shoehorn comic-book like shots into a movie that didn't fit that choice stylistically at all. Really took me out of it.
Fire would be been harder for WW to absorb and reflect. And lightning is a common symbol of divine power, so it's a convenient demonstration of WE being a God.
They would have had her defeat Ares with another method.
Automatically assumed he killed Zeus _and_ took his power.
Right; all the gods are dead, and Ares did it - Ares was showing lots of powers that seemed outside of the scope of the god of war; lies and deception are more Apate or Dolos.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I think Zeus' thunderbolts were literally possessions (made for him by the Cyclops?) that he classically let Athena use on occasion. So Ares could have just nicked them after Zeus was dead.
Okay, so the German general guy had a plan to gas everyone at armistice and keep the war going. Giant threat established. I'm totally with that. And, shortly afterward... he randomly gasses a village. Using a shell shot from a building currently holding a party.
Uh... what? What was he hoping to accomplish? I mean, I guess that would be one way to keep the conflict going, but it tipped off his gassy hand to pretty much everyone there, especially since the party was thrown as one last hurrah before surrender. Much less effective than killing every leader at once and then taking over in the chaos. I mean, I guess it provided the "war is hell" moment the movie required, and that moment couldn't have really come during the village assault, since that is the "maybe the world of man is okay" moment.
For that matter, why gas the German leadership on the eve of armistice? Wouldn't one of the non-German countries have noticed something weird was going on?
Okay, so the German general guy had a plan to gas everyone at armistice and keep the war going. Giant threat established. I'm totally with that. And, shortly afterward... he randomly gasses a village. Using a shell shot from a building currently holding a party.
Uh... what? What was he hoping to accomplish? I mean, I guess that would be one way to keep the conflict going, but it tipped off his gassy hand to pretty much everyone there, especially since the party was thrown as one last hurrah before surrender. Much less effective than killing every leader at once and then taking over in the chaos. I mean, I guess it provided the "war is hell" moment the movie required, and that moment couldn't have really come during the village assault, since that is the "maybe the world of man is okay" moment.
For that matter, why gas the German leadership on the eve of armistice? Wouldn't one of the non-German countries have noticed something weird was going on?
It was a demonstration of the weapon. And he gassed the German leadership that was working on the armistice to delay peace.
Also you don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread.
Okay, so the German general guy had a plan to gas everyone at armistice and keep the war going. Giant threat established. I'm totally with that. And, shortly afterward... he randomly gasses a village. Using a shell shot from a building currently holding a party.
Uh... what? What was he hoping to accomplish? I mean, I guess that would be one way to keep the conflict going, but it tipped off his gassy hand to pretty much everyone there, especially since the party was thrown as one last hurrah before surrender. Much less effective than killing every leader at once and then taking over in the chaos. I mean, I guess it provided the "war is hell" moment the movie required, and that moment couldn't have really come during the village assault, since that is the "maybe the world of man is okay" moment.
For that matter, why gas the German leadership on the eve of armistice? Wouldn't one of the non-German countries have noticed something weird was going on?
Was he going to gas the party? I thought the intent was to gather important people there to make them witness the nearby destruction of the village, showing off that Germany has a super weapon and would not sign the armistice.
Okay, so the German general guy had a plan to gas everyone at armistice and keep the war going. Giant threat established. I'm totally with that. And, shortly afterward... he randomly gasses a village. Using a shell shot from a building currently holding a party.
Uh... what? What was he hoping to accomplish? I mean, I guess that would be one way to keep the conflict going, but it tipped off his gassy hand to pretty much everyone there, especially since the party was thrown as one last hurrah before surrender. Much less effective than killing every leader at once and then taking over in the chaos. I mean, I guess it provided the "war is hell" moment the movie required, and that moment couldn't have really come during the village assault, since that is the "maybe the world of man is okay" moment.
For that matter, why gas the German leadership on the eve of armistice? Wouldn't one of the non-German countries have noticed something weird was going on?
This may actually make sense.
Remember the scene where the general poisons a room full of folks and throws a gas mask in and they chortle over how evil they are? That was the killing all the high command phase.
The party was the seizing power in the wake of it phase. The village was demonstration of his awesome gas power which would let them win the war and gaining control of the rest of the folks.
The plane was off to bomb something important/vital (i.e. London?) in order to keep the war going because now they would win it.
Hm. I understand the points you guys made, though it probably would have helped if there was a moment when our gang realizes "oh shit -- there's not going to be an armistice at all!" Unless I missed something, it seemed like they were just constantly "gotta stop the germans!" I guess the machinizations behind evolving threat seemed a little nebulous to me and could have stood some shoring up.
Though I'm not sure gassing the village was a good demonstration of their new power, since the new power was "there's no protection against this," right? An unprepared, unsuspecting village pretty much wouldn't have been able to defend against regular mustard gas for the most part. Though this might be getting into splitting hairs territory.
The demonstration at Veld was presumably in front of the Kaiser, and would be followed up by the gas raid on London which was presumably enough to destroy the city and wipe out millions of people, many soldiers on leave among them.
Presumably just being indoors would be enough to deal with regular mustard gas? As long as you had windows and stayed well inside, you'd at least have enough of a delay to wet a rag and put it over your nose and mouth, and the diluted concentration that slipped in through your doors and windows would then be harmless, but the Hydro-mustard from the movie cracked gas and burnt cloth and plastic.
The bigger question is why doesn't Dr. Poison mass produce the super crack to create an army of unstoppable Snowflame! soldiers.
Maybe that was part of step two? Alternatively, it seems that she just made the superdrug as, like, a throwaway side project, and her true love was producing toxins.
Best DCU movie so far! I'd give it an B+! For reference, I'd give Superman a B-, BvS a D-, and Suicide Squad a D.
Pros
- Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
- Bright colors on her home Island. I loved everything about her home.
- Good dialogue with actual jokes! I think this is the first DC movie I've walked away from feeling something other than exhaustion. Really glad they had actual light-hearted moments.
- Origin story without feeling like it was one. This could be because I didn't really know WW's origin story, but it feels like they didn't dwell all that long on it.
- The fight scenes were amazing. Yes I know I already said it, but they were really really good. Like for real the slowdown sections were great. I loved her use of the lasso (never thought I would say that) and shield.
- Gal Gadot did a great job as Wonder Woman. She's my favorite character in the DCU now, easily. I think she did a better job acting than Affleck or Superman dude.
Cons
- Whole Ares thing fell flat at the end both the physical fight and the greater character conflict. Super weak ending to a great first and decent second act.
- 2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
- Blocking bullets with her gauntlets is just dumb. I can see doing it every once in a while, but literally doing it all the time was stupid. Especially as she was running between the trenches. Like her thighs are completely exposed and she never once blocked low. They should have given her a full body suit and then used the gauntlets to block any shots to her head. Or better yet, bring her gear up to the times and just have the gauntlets like obliterate all ranged weaponry fire at her, like a personal force shield or something.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
- Some of the shots were ridiculously eye-rolling. Like when she stood up out of the trench for the first time. Or when she was suspended ready to deal the final blow. Or when she was super angry that Steve died and went ham on all the soldiers, it was like they were trying to shoehorn comic-book like shots into a movie that didn't fit that choice stylistically at all. Really took me out of it.
Re: Blocking bullets / full body armor.
I don't think she needs it? They slowly escalate her invulnerability throughout the film, in a way I rather liked.
Bracers and shield are established early on, but then in the village building-interior fight, we get little slow motion shots highlighting that, yes, this little leather bit? Bulletproof. Boots? Bulletproof.
Then you're left wondering about everything in between. She was cut in the beach fight, is she just super-healing now? Then you get the fight with the general, and, no, she wasn't healing. She's holding God-killer by the blade with barehands and a smile on her face as a super soldier struggles to drive it into her.
That girl doesn't need to block shit anymore, she's just trained to.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Best DCU movie so far! I'd give it an B+! For reference, I'd give Superman a B-, BvS a D-, and Suicide Squad a D.
Pros
- Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
- Bright colors on her home Island. I loved everything about her home.
- Good dialogue with actual jokes! I think this is the first DC movie I've walked away from feeling something other than exhaustion. Really glad they had actual light-hearted moments.
- Origin story without feeling like it was one. This could be because I didn't really know WW's origin story, but it feels like they didn't dwell all that long on it.
- The fight scenes were amazing. Yes I know I already said it, but they were really really good. Like for real the slowdown sections were great. I loved her use of the lasso (never thought I would say that) and shield.
- Gal Gadot did a great job as Wonder Woman. She's my favorite character in the DCU now, easily. I think she did a better job acting than Affleck or Superman dude.
Cons
- Whole Ares thing fell flat at the end both the physical fight and the greater character conflict. Super weak ending to a great first and decent second act.
- 2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
- Blocking bullets with her gauntlets is just dumb. I can see doing it every once in a while, but literally doing it all the time was stupid. Especially as she was running between the trenches. Like her thighs are completely exposed and she never once blocked low. They should have given her a full body suit and then used the gauntlets to block any shots to her head. Or better yet, bring her gear up to the times and just have the gauntlets like obliterate all ranged weaponry fire at her, like a personal force shield or something.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
- Some of the shots were ridiculously eye-rolling. Like when she stood up out of the trench for the first time. Or when she was suspended ready to deal the final blow. Or when she was super angry that Steve died and went ham on all the soldiers, it was like they were trying to shoehorn comic-book like shots into a movie that didn't fit that choice stylistically at all. Really took me out of it.
Re: Blocking bullets / full body armor.
I don't think she needs it? They slowly escalate her invulnerability throughout the film, in a way I rather liked.
Bracers and shield are established early on, but then in the village building-interior fight, we get little slow motion shots highlighting that, yes, this little leather bit? Bulletproof. Boots? Bulletproof.
Then you're left wondering about everything in between. She was cut in the beach fight, is she just super-healing now? Then you get the fight with the general, and, no, she wasn't healing. She's holding God-killer by the blade with barehands and a smile on her face as a super soldier struggles to drive it into her.
That girl doesn't need to block shit anymore, she's just trained to.
She was palming the blade. I'm sure her fingers weren't gripping it because I paid special attention to that due to my already existing confusion of her durability.
And what you are saying it that she used to be able to get hurt/bleed but now she can't anymore? Because she clearly got hurt and bled on the beach scene. There was blood on that bandage. And since she's half Amazon, half god it would stand to reason that shes not completely immortal or immune to bullets since we saw Amazon die to bullets.
I guess if the movie was trying to portray that she was growing into her god powers I could buy that. Not sure why they confused the issue with her bleeding early on, though.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
I concur, that story had some rough parts. I feel like it buried the lede on Zeus dying as well.
Best DCU movie so far! I'd give it an B+! For reference, I'd give Superman a B-, BvS a D-, and Suicide Squad a D.
Pros
- Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
- Bright colors on her home Island. I loved everything about her home.
- Good dialogue with actual jokes! I think this is the first DC movie I've walked away from feeling something other than exhaustion. Really glad they had actual light-hearted moments.
- Origin story without feeling like it was one. This could be because I didn't really know WW's origin story, but it feels like they didn't dwell all that long on it.
- The fight scenes were amazing. Yes I know I already said it, but they were really really good. Like for real the slowdown sections were great. I loved her use of the lasso (never thought I would say that) and shield.
- Gal Gadot did a great job as Wonder Woman. She's my favorite character in the DCU now, easily. I think she did a better job acting than Affleck or Superman dude.
Cons
- Whole Ares thing fell flat at the end both the physical fight and the greater character conflict. Super weak ending to a great first and decent second act.
- 2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
- Blocking bullets with her gauntlets is just dumb. I can see doing it every once in a while, but literally doing it all the time was stupid. Especially as she was running between the trenches. Like her thighs are completely exposed and she never once blocked low. They should have given her a full body suit and then used the gauntlets to block any shots to her head. Or better yet, bring her gear up to the times and just have the gauntlets like obliterate all ranged weaponry fire at her, like a personal force shield or something.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
- Some of the shots were ridiculously eye-rolling. Like when she stood up out of the trench for the first time. Or when she was suspended ready to deal the final blow. Or when she was super angry that Steve died and went ham on all the soldiers, it was like they were trying to shoehorn comic-book like shots into a movie that didn't fit that choice stylistically at all. Really took me out of it.
Re: Blocking bullets / full body armor.
I don't think she needs it? They slowly escalate her invulnerability throughout the film, in a way I rather liked.
Bracers and shield are established early on, but then in the village building-interior fight, we get little slow motion shots highlighting that, yes, this little leather bit? Bulletproof. Boots? Bulletproof.
Then you're left wondering about everything in between. She was cut in the beach fight, is she just super-healing now? Then you get the fight with the general, and, no, she wasn't healing. She's holding God-killer by the blade with barehands and a smile on her face as a super soldier struggles to drive it into her.
That girl doesn't need to block shit anymore, she's just trained to.
She was palming the blade. I'm sure her fingers weren't gripping it because I paid special attention to that due to my already existing confusion of her durability.
And what you are saying it that she used to be able to get hurt/bleed but now she can't anymore? Because she clearly got hurt and bled on the beach scene. There was blood on that bandage. And since she's half Amazon, half god it would stand to reason that shes not completely immortal or immune to bullets since we saw Amazon die to bullets.
I guess if the movie was trying to portray that she was growing into her god powers I could buy that. Not sure why they confused the issue with her bleeding early on, though.
Her mother kept hammering on the point that she had power yet to gain, and it's dormancy was what kept her off Ares radar. So (in hindsight) I took the beach injury, and surprise healing, to indicate that her powers hadn't yet firmed up she when took that wound, but had now or were on their way.
She definitely ends up on Superman's level by BvS, so imagine she's just not aware of her power for most of the movie. And the movie really enjoyed slowly revealing her powers.
I've always thought of Wonder Woman as less like, DBZ power levels than Superman, but on the other hand she's a trained warrior while he's still at heart a farm boy.
Wonder Woman might not be able to run faster than a speeding train, but on the other hand Superman isn't going to kick you in the balls.
(but then I always think the more limited the hero's powers are the more interesting they are, I'm sure there's plenty of canon comics that disagree with me)
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I've always thought of Wonder Woman as less like, DBZ power levels than Superman, but on the other hand she's a trained warrior while he's still at heart a farm boy.
Wonder Woman might not be able to run faster than a speeding train, but on the other hand Superman isn't going to kick you in the balls.
(but then I always think the more limited the hero's powers are the more interesting they are, I'm sure there's plenty of canon comics that disagree with me)
Wonder Woman's probably on the same power scale as Thor. Superman's always been in a league of his own at his best, but generally handicapped down to that same league because otherwise he breaks just about any plot you put him in, plus allowing you to bring out the "real" Superman for a real emergency.
One thing the Snyder films get right is a good impression of the real depth of Superman's power, although that's led to the trap of them needing Kryptonians or Kryptonite to be his enemy when anything else gets swatted away, though we are getting the New Gods next.
I would rate this movie much higher if it didn't completely undermine it's own theme at the last moment by having killing Ares result in all the Germans not trying to kill them anymore for some reason.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
If they'd had the climax coincide with the armistice being declared it'd be perfect. A few shots showing that the Germans are tired of fighting too and you'd have a nice natural end to the film.
2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
I thought about that after the movie but then remembered that 2/3rds of the movie was World War 1 which was a blasted out, awful hellscape and when they weren't in a war zone they were in early 1900s London where the air was like 75% smog, 20% fog, and 5% beer farts. Themyscira being incredibly bright and pleasant served as a nice transition and worked fairly symbolically. Diana went from this perfect, sheltered world where everything is always awesome all the time to the truth of the outside world so while the DCU movies in the past have been dark and dreary because DARKNESS NO PARENTS I felt like in this movie it had a point and made sense.
I would rate this movie much higher if it didn't completely undermine it's own theme at the last moment by having killing Ares result in all the Germans not trying to kill them anymore for some reason.
Considering the giant explosion that just happened and the God level fight they just saw, I interpreted it more as them being happy to just be alive and seriously reconsidering their life choices and any religious beliefs they may have had. Especially since Ares himself said all he did was inspire people to build terrible things and then he'd step back and watch the show.
Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
I felt like these were the weakest aspect to the movie. The shots spent too much time zoomed in and there were a couple cuts where she was fighting the Germans in the room where I was left wondering who hit what with what and how and other cuts in the beginning beach scene where the flow of the fight didn't work so well. When the movie zoomed out and let the scenes have some breathing room they were pretty rad though. Her going HAM with the lasso was super fun to watch.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I thought the fight scenes were great. Although the last thing I watched with fight scenes in it was Iron Fist, so...maybe my expectations were set really, really (really) low.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
They sent the Amazons to try and calm the humans and act as a bridge to understanding. The fact that they are immediately shown as being put in chains and fighting humans for their freedom also means that they don't have to say directly "Oh, and the humans enslaved them all".
Also Zeus's last act wasn't to hide the amazons. They pretty much covered what his real last act was. It's not so much saving it for the sequel as saving it for the end of the movie.
My main complaint with it was more that they made Greek myth into a Judeo-Christian fable where you have the God of Good Things (Zeus) and the God of Corruption and Evil (Ares).
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
They sent the Amazons to try and calm the humans and act as a bridge to understanding. The fact that they are immediately shown as being put in chains and fighting humans for their freedom also means that they don't have to say directly "Oh, and the humans enslaved them all".
Also Zeus's last act wasn't to hide the amazons. They pretty much covered what his real last act was. It's not so much saving it for the sequel as saving it for the end of the movie.
My main complaint with it was more that they made Greek myth into a Judeo-Christian fable where you have the God of Good Things (Zeus) and the God of Corruption and Evil (Ares).
I wasn't pleased that they basically wrote out the entire pantheon, but i guess that's to prevent the continuity from getting too bloated so they can skip over awkward questions about why Zeus isn't helping against Darkseid's invasion in Justice League pt 2 or whatever.
I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
They sent the Amazons to try and calm the humans and act as a bridge to understanding. The fact that they are immediately shown as being put in chains and fighting humans for their freedom also means that they don't have to say directly "Oh, and the humans enslaved them all".
Also Zeus's last act wasn't to hide the amazons. They pretty much covered what his real last act was. It's not so much saving it for the sequel as saving it for the end of the movie.
My main complaint with it was more that they made Greek myth into a Judeo-Christian fable where you have the God of Good Things (Zeus) and the God of Corruption and Evil (Ares).
Ares was the god that even the other dickish gods thought was a complete asshole so that end of things isn't that far fetched. The idea that Ares would be the one to go "yanno what, fuck all y'all" works since everyone else kinda hated him for being such a violent jackass. But really, the entire mythology of the movie in general is pretty fucked if you start comparing it to the actual myths. Zeus was definitely a dick, but all the Greek gods were, it was just on a sliding scale (which is something I always admired about old mythology, the gods were still imperfect and relatable). Contrary to what the movie says, Zeus wiped out round 1 of humans with a giant flood after determining them all to be assholes, but left the only two he thought were alright and then those two created humans round two out of stone. The Amazons were not some creation made by Zeus to keep people chill, they were badass warriors from the get go that were (ironically enough) daughters of Ares who were generally depicted as bloodthirsty, savage opponents that the heroic manly men had to defeat.
Wonder Woman basically goes the opposite direction of Thor by subverting and re-purposing a lot of the old myths. Thor takes Viking mythology and treats it as in universe tales told by ancient Earthers about the exploits of these beings that really exist while Wonder Woman strips what it needs out of Greek mythology and jettisons the rest, writing its own version of everything to suit its needs.
I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
The demonstration at Veld was presumably in front of the Kaiser, and would be followed up by the gas raid on London which was presumably enough to destroy the city and wipe out millions of people, many soldiers on leave among them.
Presumably just being indoors would be enough to deal with regular mustard gas? As long as you had windows and stayed well inside, you'd at least have enough of a delay to wet a rag and put it over your nose and mouth, and the diluted concentration that slipped in through your doors and windows would then be harmless, but the Hydro-mustard from the movie cracked gas and burnt cloth and plastic.
Minor quibble, but they mentioned that they were going to bomb "The entire front", not London. As a history nerd, they were pretty good at historical accuracy with regards to the weapons/vehicles e.t.c used and while I could buy a late WWI era bomber having enough range to bomb a few dozen miles of trenches, it certainly wouldn't be making it to London from Germany and back in one trip!
Also as a history nerd, I never realised how much I wanted to see a superhero charge a German machine gun nest until I was seeing it.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Between Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man, Marvel's proved that it doesn't need the comic character with the greatest renown to make bank.
Saw this last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Refreshing to finally see DC make a good movie. The fight scenes were good, this movie actually showed the horror of war, and Wonder Woman's theme remains my favorite.
Noticed while they had beer in the village Diana put her beer down on her left. But when the scene cut to another angle it was back in her right hand and she put it down again on her right. What is this, some sort of magical mug?!
I guess if the movie was trying to portray that she was growing into her god powers I could buy that. Not sure why they confused the issue with her bleeding early on, though.
The movie didn't explicitly do that, but I think it could've/should've. At the beginning, they kept repeating "you're stronger than you believe, Diana". I haven't fully thought out all of the implications of this, but it would be interesting if her power was tied to that. It's also a good message to the audience.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Between Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man, Marvel's proved that it doesn't need the comic character with the greatest renown to make bank.
The issue isn't with the character, it's that Scarlett's on screen presence always feels like a robot trying to impersonate a human (insert Ghost in the Shell joke here).
Saw this last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Refreshing to finally see DC make a good movie. The fight scenes were good, this movie actually showed the horror of war, and Wonder Woman's theme remains my favorite.
Noticed while they had beer in the village Diana put her beer down on her left. But when the scene cut to another angle it was back in her right hand and she put it down again on her right. What is this, some sort of magical mug?!
Dionysus is also the god of ritual madness so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
Hell, Lynda Carter at least.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I didn't notice any call outs to any of the creators like in other DC movies. No Messner-Loebs, Byrne, Jiminez or Perez.
For all it's faults Suicide Squad was perfect with The Ostrander Building right there with time for you to read.
I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
Hell, Lynda Carter at least.
How rad would that have been if she was Queen of the Amazons? :biggrin:
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
Hell, Lynda Carter at least.
How rad would that have been if she was Queen of the Amazons? :biggrin:
Posts
Pros
- Great fight scenes. Easy to understand what was happening with great choreography.
- Bright colors on her home Island. I loved everything about her home.
- Good dialogue with actual jokes! I think this is the first DC movie I've walked away from feeling something other than exhaustion. Really glad they had actual light-hearted moments.
- Origin story without feeling like it was one. This could be because I didn't really know WW's origin story, but it feels like they didn't dwell all that long on it.
- The fight scenes were amazing. Yes I know I already said it, but they were really really good. Like for real the slowdown sections were great. I loved her use of the lasso (never thought I would say that) and shield.
- Gal Gadot did a great job as Wonder Woman. She's my favorite character in the DCU now, easily. I think she did a better job acting than Affleck or Superman dude.
Cons
- Whole Ares thing fell flat at the end both the physical fight and the greater character conflict. Super weak ending to a great first and decent second act.
- 2/3 of the movie was again dark and dreary, I can't think of a single scene past her Island where it wasn't grimdark. DC seriously needs to stop doing this.
- Blocking bullets with her gauntlets is just dumb. I can see doing it every once in a while, but literally doing it all the time was stupid. Especially as she was running between the trenches. Like her thighs are completely exposed and she never once blocked low. They should have given her a full body suit and then used the gauntlets to block any shots to her head. Or better yet, bring her gear up to the times and just have the gauntlets like obliterate all ranged weaponry fire at her, like a personal force shield or something.
- I still don't understand the relationship between the Gods and Amazons and Humanity. So Zeus made humans and they started fighting each other. Then the Gods sent Amazons to help humans, I assume to keep the peace? Then, inexplicably, the Amazons fought to be free because they were slaves? And the Gods helped the Amazons fight humanity, even though they created the amazons to help humanity? And then Ares fought against the Amazons and the Gods and beat all the Gods and Zeus's last act was to hide the Amazons from Ares. Super confusing in the middle there and it didn't make much sense, maybe they were holding stuff back for the second movie.
- Some of the shots were ridiculously eye-rolling. Like when she stood up out of the trench for the first time. Or when she was suspended ready to deal the final blow. Or when she was super angry that Steve died and went ham on all the soldiers, it was like they were trying to shoehorn comic-book like shots into a movie that didn't fit that choice stylistically at all. Really took me out of it.
They would have had her defeat Ares with another method.
Right; all the gods are dead, and Ares did it - Ares was showing lots of powers that seemed outside of the scope of the god of war; lies and deception are more Apate or Dolos.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Uh... what? What was he hoping to accomplish? I mean, I guess that would be one way to keep the conflict going, but it tipped off his gassy hand to pretty much everyone there, especially since the party was thrown as one last hurrah before surrender. Much less effective than killing every leader at once and then taking over in the chaos. I mean, I guess it provided the "war is hell" moment the movie required, and that moment couldn't have really come during the village assault, since that is the "maybe the world of man is okay" moment.
For that matter, why gas the German leadership on the eve of armistice? Wouldn't one of the non-German countries have noticed something weird was going on?
It was a demonstration of the weapon. And he gassed the German leadership that was working on the armistice to delay peace.
Also you don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread.
This may actually make sense.
The party was the seizing power in the wake of it phase. The village was demonstration of his awesome gas power which would let them win the war and gaining control of the rest of the folks.
The plane was off to bomb something important/vital (i.e. London?) in order to keep the war going because now they would win it.
Though I'm not sure gassing the village was a good demonstration of their new power, since the new power was "there's no protection against this," right? An unprepared, unsuspecting village pretty much wouldn't have been able to defend against regular mustard gas for the most part. Though this might be getting into splitting hairs territory.
Presumably just being indoors would be enough to deal with regular mustard gas? As long as you had windows and stayed well inside, you'd at least have enough of a delay to wet a rag and put it over your nose and mouth, and the diluted concentration that slipped in through your doors and windows would then be harmless, but the Hydro-mustard from the movie cracked gas and burnt cloth and plastic.
Maybe that was part of step two? Alternatively, it seems that she just made the superdrug as, like, a throwaway side project, and her true love was producing toxins.
Because she only had a few of those bespoke glass capsules with hand etched metal inlay, and General Jerk-face kept breaking them.
Re: Blocking bullets / full body armor.
I don't think she needs it? They slowly escalate her invulnerability throughout the film, in a way I rather liked.
Bracers and shield are established early on, but then in the village building-interior fight, we get little slow motion shots highlighting that, yes, this little leather bit? Bulletproof. Boots? Bulletproof.
Then you're left wondering about everything in between. She was cut in the beach fight, is she just super-healing now? Then you get the fight with the general, and, no, she wasn't healing. She's holding God-killer by the blade with barehands and a smile on her face as a super soldier struggles to drive it into her.
That girl doesn't need to block shit anymore, she's just trained to.
She was palming the blade. I'm sure her fingers weren't gripping it because I paid special attention to that due to my already existing confusion of her durability.
And what you are saying it that she used to be able to get hurt/bleed but now she can't anymore? Because she clearly got hurt and bled on the beach scene. There was blood on that bandage. And since she's half Amazon, half god it would stand to reason that shes not completely immortal or immune to bullets since we saw Amazon die to bullets.
I guess if the movie was trying to portray that she was growing into her god powers I could buy that. Not sure why they confused the issue with her bleeding early on, though.
I concur, that story had some rough parts. I feel like it buried the lede on Zeus dying as well.
Her mother kept hammering on the point that she had power yet to gain, and it's dormancy was what kept her off Ares radar. So (in hindsight) I took the beach injury, and surprise healing, to indicate that her powers hadn't yet firmed up she when took that wound, but had now or were on their way.
Wonder Woman might not be able to run faster than a speeding train, but on the other hand Superman isn't going to kick you in the balls.
(but then I always think the more limited the hero's powers are the more interesting they are, I'm sure there's plenty of canon comics that disagree with me)
Wonder Woman's probably on the same power scale as Thor. Superman's always been in a league of his own at his best, but generally handicapped down to that same league because otherwise he breaks just about any plot you put him in, plus allowing you to bring out the "real" Superman for a real emergency.
One thing the Snyder films get right is a good impression of the real depth of Superman's power, although that's led to the trap of them needing Kryptonians or Kryptonite to be his enemy when anything else gets swatted away, though we are getting the New Gods next.
I thought about that after the movie but then remembered that 2/3rds of the movie was World War 1 which was a blasted out, awful hellscape and when they weren't in a war zone they were in early 1900s London where the air was like 75% smog, 20% fog, and 5% beer farts. Themyscira being incredibly bright and pleasant served as a nice transition and worked fairly symbolically. Diana went from this perfect, sheltered world where everything is always awesome all the time to the truth of the outside world so while the DCU movies in the past have been dark and dreary because DARKNESS NO PARENTS I felt like in this movie it had a point and made sense.
Considering the giant explosion that just happened and the God level fight they just saw, I interpreted it more as them being happy to just be alive and seriously reconsidering their life choices and any religious beliefs they may have had. Especially since Ares himself said all he did was inspire people to build terrible things and then he'd step back and watch the show.
I felt like these were the weakest aspect to the movie. The shots spent too much time zoomed in and there were a couple cuts where she was fighting the Germans in the room where I was left wondering who hit what with what and how and other cuts in the beginning beach scene where the flow of the fight didn't work so well. When the movie zoomed out and let the scenes have some breathing room they were pretty rad though. Her going HAM with the lasso was super fun to watch.
Also Zeus's last act wasn't to hide the amazons. They pretty much covered what his real last act was. It's not so much saving it for the sequel as saving it for the end of the movie.
My main complaint with it was more that they made Greek myth into a Judeo-Christian fable where you have the God of Good Things (Zeus) and the God of Corruption and Evil (Ares).
I wasn't pleased that they basically wrote out the entire pantheon, but i guess that's to prevent the continuity from getting too bloated so they can skip over awkward questions about why Zeus isn't helping against Darkseid's invasion in Justice League pt 2 or whatever.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
Ares was the god that even the other dickish gods thought was a complete asshole so that end of things isn't that far fetched. The idea that Ares would be the one to go "yanno what, fuck all y'all" works since everyone else kinda hated him for being such a violent jackass. But really, the entire mythology of the movie in general is pretty fucked if you start comparing it to the actual myths. Zeus was definitely a dick, but all the Greek gods were, it was just on a sliding scale (which is something I always admired about old mythology, the gods were still imperfect and relatable). Contrary to what the movie says, Zeus wiped out round 1 of humans with a giant flood after determining them all to be assholes, but left the only two he thought were alright and then those two created humans round two out of stone. The Amazons were not some creation made by Zeus to keep people chill, they were badass warriors from the get go that were (ironically enough) daughters of Ares who were generally depicted as bloodthirsty, savage opponents that the heroic manly men had to defeat.
Wonder Woman basically goes the opposite direction of Thor by subverting and re-purposing a lot of the old myths. Thor takes Viking mythology and treats it as in universe tales told by ancient Earthers about the exploits of these beings that really exist while Wonder Woman strips what it needs out of Greek mythology and jettisons the rest, writing its own version of everything to suit its needs.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
Minor quibble, but they mentioned that they were going to bomb "The entire front", not London. As a history nerd, they were pretty good at historical accuracy with regards to the weapons/vehicles e.t.c used and while I could buy a late WWI era bomber having enough range to bomb a few dozen miles of trenches, it certainly wouldn't be making it to London from Germany and back in one trip!
Also as a history nerd, I never realised how much I wanted to see a superhero charge a German machine gun nest until I was seeing it.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Producers: But she's a muuuuggggllllle
Between Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man, Marvel's proved that it doesn't need the comic character with the greatest renown to make bank.
Noticed while they had beer in the village Diana put her beer down on her left. But when the scene cut to another angle it was back in her right hand and she put it down again on her right. What is this, some sort of magical mug?!
The issue isn't with the character, it's that Scarlett's on screen presence always feels like a robot trying to impersonate a human (insert Ghost in the Shell joke here).
Dionysus is also the god of ritual madness so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hell, Lynda Carter at least.
For all it's faults Suicide Squad was perfect with The Ostrander Building right there with time for you to read.
How rad would that have been if she was Queen of the Amazons? :biggrin:
She's busy being President on Supergirl
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