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[Obamacare repeal]: McConnell fails to pass disastrous bill. Country sighs in relief.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    and yet I thought this Congress was allergic to actually voting on things like this (or SCOTUS noms), for pretty much exactly that reason (not wanting it to show up in campaign ads)?

    God forbid they should do their jobs and represent the best interests of their constituents.

    I believe it was Chris Hayes that said last night something along the lines of; "they keep trying to find safe ways to get closer to doing the thing without actually doing the thing. Eventually they're going to have to actually do the thing."

    They want to be seen as having done something without actually doing the thing they are acting like they're gonna do because that thing is political poison.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    and yet I thought this Congress was allergic to actually voting on things like this (or SCOTUS noms), for pretty much exactly that reason (not wanting it to show up in campaign ads)?

    God forbid they should do their jobs and represent the best interests of their constituents.

    I believe it was Chris Hayes that said last night something along the lines of; "they keep trying to find safe ways to get closer to doing the thing without actually doing the thing. Eventually they're going to have to actually do the thing."

    They want to be seen as having done something without actually doing the thing they are acting like they're gonna do because that thing is political poison.

    Hell, it's pretty much actual poison as far as the effect on people if it passes.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Capito is uncertain, at least for now



    Hill reporter

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    McCain was never, ever, in any universe, going to be one of the senators voting against this bill.

    Being diagnosed with less than a year to live was the actual, Hollywood-esque "time to redeem myself" kind of permission to go against the grain and actually take a principled stand for once in his life.

    You're assuming he had principles he wanted to stand for in the first place. His voting record over the years and in particular this year, says otherwise.

    Yeah, his principles have consistently been "taxing the rich and providing benefits to the poor is terrible." His couple vaguely principled stances were on issues of not being personally racist while selecting an incredibly racist VP candidate.

    The guy is supposedly the avatar of fidelity and honor when he left his model first wife who had been his political partner and asset after she got in a car accident that almost killed her so he could marry a rich beauty queen 20 years his junior, that was one of the women he was having an affair with, five weeks later. He just wisely chose the "completely above reproach(media)" Feat during character creation

    Reagan hated him for that so much

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Capito is uncertain, at least for now



    Hill reporter

    Better than a definite yes.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Murkowski won a write-in campaign where they'd only count votes that spelled her name correctly.

    Her campaign ads had to give spelling mnemonics to her supporters.

    So what you're saying is that the North....

    8-)

    Remembers

    YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH!
    That's amazing, I am going to steal that.

    And to keep it on topic, Murkowski should be given the Mavrick title from now on.

    Don't.

    She's just as much a shit as the rest of them. Alaska is just...weird up here.

    Our reps and senators are garbage right now

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    They've already been protesting the whole repeal process.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

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    kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Just remember remove the way to pay for something is apparently the fiscally conservative thing to do.

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

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    PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Aren't they delaying shit for 2 years with a "wink wink this won't happen (or it will after Democrats kick us out olol we so smart)"?

    I think that's the justification in their mind, as if an insurance company doesn't project more than a month and won't look at this and be like nope fucking nope?

    Or maybe that's some other version, it's hard to comment on the impact of Schrodinger's bill

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    GyralGyral Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

    It'll also spike the unemployment numbers.

    25t9pjnmqicf.jpg
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

    ok, so just themselves (they get to keep their jarbs by sticking it to them libs)

    .00000000001% will benefit

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

    They'll bail them out

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Capito is uncertain, at least for now



    Hill reporter

    Better than a definite yes.

    Anything but a stated absolute NO might as well be a yes. And even "absolute NOs" aren't always NOs.

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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Isn't voting for skinny repeal just voting for a conference committee? There's no way they come out of conference committee with skinny repeal, right? I'd give AHCA or BRCA better odds of becoming law than skinny repeal

    sig.gif
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Capito is uncertain, at least for now



    Hill reporter

    Better than a definite yes.

    Anything but a stated absolute NO might as well be a yes. And even "absolute NOs" aren't always NOs.

    Just ask yourself "Would Trump keep going if a beauty contestant responded this way?"

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Isn't voting for skinny repeal just voting for a conference committee? There's no way they come out of conference committee with skinny repeal, right? I'd give AHCA or BRCA better odds of becoming law than skinny repeal

    Skinny repeal might be a trojan horse for the House bill is a new thing Cornyn is saying.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

    Not really. These are people who have all kinds of hooks in all kinds of markets. It's not a revelation that the mortgage packages bet for and against their own products. That's pretty standard, as doing so is very cheap. Or was at the time. As it stands, dragging the legislative show out gives plenty of time for the very richest to discover and stake out positions that will pay no matter what happens.

    Now, that aside your question does require a real answer. It's the same question I've been asking for the past several weeks. The only thing I've been able to come up with is that this is another play for the Russians. Weaken the US economic position through this sort of chaos is favorable to them. Not least of all because oil and natural gas, both of which have been down for the past couple of years. The weakness in natural gas prices has, in particular, hurt Russian economic interests. Were that market to cool down due to a US dip it would be advantageous. This answer requires you to believe that Trump is well and truly a voiceless puppet of Putin, however.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    If it starts looking like skinny repeal is going to be the thing, how is the healthcare industry not going to explode with protest? It's the worst of both worlds for them, here's all this extra stuff you have to do, but no insurance mandates.

    Premiums would have to skyrocket.

    Seriously, though. I always understood the GOP to be in this on the side of the insurance companies and other wealthy cronies. Who actually benefits from the healthcare system collapsing? Nobody in the US.

    some of their richer donors and themselves

    soooooo maybe .00002% of the country will benefit

    The health insurance business will bring down the whole of the stock market and raise interest rates, both things that will hurt that top percent.

    Not really. These are people who have all kinds of hooks in all kinds of markets. It's not a revelation that the mortgage packages bet for and against their own products. That's pretty standard, as doing so is very cheap. Or was at the time. As it stands, dragging the legislative show out gives plenty of time for the very richest to discover and stake out positions that will pay no matter what happens.

    Now, that aside your question does require a real answer. It's the same question I've been asking for the past several weeks. The only thing I've been able to come up with is that this is another play for the Russians. Weaken the US economic position through this sort of chaos is favorable to them. Not least of all because oil and natural gas, both of which have been down for the past couple of years. The weakness in natural gas prices has, in particular, hurt Russian economic interests. Were that market to cool down due to a US dip it would be advantageous. This answer requires you to believe that Trump is well and truly a voiceless puppet of Putin, however.

    That's a far more complicated explanation than the likely truth: Trump and McConnell just want a win and stick it to Obama that much, damn the consequences.

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Isn't voting for skinny repeal just voting for a conference committee? There's no way they come out of conference committee with skinny repeal, right? I'd give AHCA or BRCA better odds of becoming law than skinny repeal

    If skinny repeal passes the Senate, I'd give much better odds of skinny repeal becoming law than of no change at all. The House will just pass skinny repeal if they can't get anything else through conference committee.

    Repealing the mandates would be seen as a big political win, even if it would be disastrous policy.

    Fun story: in 1993, the state of Washington passed a ban on pre-existing conditions along with a mandate to purchase insurance. In 1995, Republicans repealed just the mandate. After that, premiums began going up by 20%+ a year, and by 1999, every single insurer had pulled out of the state's individual insurance market.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1093LMw9sA
    Scaramucci: "trust the process of the free market like in telecom, like in airlines"

    Does anybody who has dealt with either of those think that is a good idea?

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1093LMw9sA
    Scaramucci: "trust the process of the free market like in telecom, like in airlines"

    Does anybody who has dealt with either of those think that is a good idea?

    What.

    Why would anyone use airlines or telecoms as a shining example of the free market, especially after the recent events in the airline industry

    I guess it works ok as analogy as they will be metaphorically dragging lots of people out of their doctors' offices

    KetBra on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah pretty sure bringing up hated industries that consistently fuck consumers is not going to earn much trust from people.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    aren't telecoms and airlines are explicitly the least free market businesses in america? Like they're almost utilities and probably would be if it wasn't for greed and lobbying.

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    MarauderMarauder Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1093LMw9sA
    Scaramucci: "trust the process of the free market like in telecom, like in airlines"

    Does anybody who has dealt with either of those think that is a good idea?

    As a seller of travel, I can emphatically state that airfare is dogshit SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE we have left these fuckers to their own devices and let them monopolize their routes.

    So, NO.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I mean health insurance companies are already hated more than air travel and phone companies, but its not inspiring to list those.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1093LMw9sA
    Scaramucci: "trust the process of the free market like in telecom, like in airlines"

    Does anybody who has dealt with either of those think that is a good idea?

    You deal with them as a regular person. If you're rich things are different. Much like healthcare really.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    He only flies in private jets, so he has no fucking clue.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Murkowski won a write-in campaign where they'd only count votes that spelled her name correctly.

    Her campaign ads had to give spelling mnemonics to her supporters.

    I'm pretty sure this wound up not being true. If it was obvious the vote was for Murkowski, it still counted.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Ah yes, telecoms, the industry that is infamous for monopolies, and the governmental busting thereof.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Sounds like the full repeal is getting delayed a few hours because the planned parenthood passages may run afoul of the parliamentarian.
    Senators were initially scheduled to vote on the proposal around mid-day, but that plan was unexpectedly delayed until later in the afternoon. According to a Democratic aide, the holdup was over language in the amendment about Planned Parenthood, and whether it passed the so-called "Byrd Rule," which determines what language is permissible under the budget reconciliation process.
    Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn described the snafu to reporters as a "kerfuffle" and said that there was a need to make "arguments to the parliamentarian."
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/health-care-bill-wednesday/index.html

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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1093LMw9sA
    Scaramucci: "trust the process of the free market like in telecom, like in airlines"

    Does anybody who has dealt with either of those think that is a good idea?

    You deal with them as a regular person. If you're rich things are different. Much like healthcare really.

    Yeah, airlines are pretty much a perfect example of...

    1) The big players all suck, and conspire to make your experience suck
    2) Small players sometimes try to enter the market and improve it
    3) Whenever they do so, the big players leverage their market cap to remove competition by lowering prices
    4) Prices then go back up

    tbloxham on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Sounds like the full repeal is getting delayed a few hours because the planned parenthood passages may run afoul of the parliamentarian.
    Senators were initially scheduled to vote on the proposal around mid-day, but that plan was unexpectedly delayed until later in the afternoon. According to a Democratic aide, the holdup was over language in the amendment about Planned Parenthood, and whether it passed the so-called "Byrd Rule," which determines what language is permissible under the budget reconciliation process.
    Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn described the snafu to reporters as a "kerfuffle" and said that there was a need to make "arguments to the parliamentarian."
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/health-care-bill-wednesday/index.html

    hm you know what might have helped you out there

    Not imposing an artificially tight time limit for passage to give you time to work through all the externalities associated with the language of the one single bill you actually want to pass into law

    just a thought

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    SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Sounds like the full repeal is getting delayed a few hours because the planned parenthood passages may run afoul of the parliamentarian.
    Senators were initially scheduled to vote on the proposal around mid-day, but that plan was unexpectedly delayed until later in the afternoon. According to a Democratic aide, the holdup was over language in the amendment about Planned Parenthood, and whether it passed the so-called "Byrd Rule," which determines what language is permissible under the budget reconciliation process.
    Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn described the snafu to reporters as a "kerfuffle" and said that there was a need to make "arguments to the parliamentarian."
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/health-care-bill-wednesday/index.html
    I've been wondering when this would come up. I believe I heard on NPR that she'd already assessed them as violating the Byrd Rule.

    Of course, she merely "advises" the VP, who ultimately makes the decision. And can also be replaced (by McConnell) with anyone (including himself) at any time, for no reason.

    I can't wait for the speech McCain will give about it.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Called my Senators. Murkowski took a minute to get through the lines (but only a minute) but I thanked her for voting against the motion to proceed. Sullivan's office I got through immediately, and I expressed my disappointment, why I was disappointed and additionally called on him to not vote for a single bill or amended bill that hasn't been vetting by experts and the CBO.

    I know it can seem like pissing on the wind, but I know I'm going to cease to let my blatantly partisan Senator off the hook anymore.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    centraldogmacentraldogma Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Sounds like the full repeal is getting delayed a few hours because the planned parenthood passages may run afoul of the parliamentarian.
    Senators were initially scheduled to vote on the proposal around mid-day, but that plan was unexpectedly delayed until later in the afternoon. According to a Democratic aide, the holdup was over language in the amendment about Planned Parenthood, and whether it passed the so-called "Byrd Rule," which determines what language is permissible under the budget reconciliation process.
    Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn described the snafu to reporters as a "kerfuffle" and said that there was a need to make "arguments to the parliamentarian."
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/health-care-bill-wednesday/index.html
    I've been wondering when this would come up. I believe I heard on NPR that she'd already assessed them as violating the Byrd Rule.

    Of course, she merely "advises" the VP, who ultimately makes the decision. And can also be replaced (by McConnell) with anyone (including himself) at any time, for no reason.

    I can't wait for the speech McCain will give about it.

    But you could say the same thing of completely eliminating the filibuster. McConnell and the Republicans have the ability to do so at anytime.

    They're not, primarily, to keep those procedural hurdles in place when(if?) Democrats take back the majority.

    When people unite together, they become stronger than the sum of their parts.
    Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding.
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    DacDac Registered User regular
    If this goes forward and the house passes it, get ready for elections in 2018 to get super fucked up with voter suppression.

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