Yeah if this truly, honestly raises corporate taxes more than individual taxes filibustering a mistake fix seems reasonable because there's zero chance of any good faith concessions being made to resolve the corporate tax hike.
And since reconcilliation rules would be off the table, they could hold out until ACA fixes and DREAM action was in the actual bill. And those furious donors would be screaming at them to give the Dems whatever feel-good social policy they wanted to unfuck their tax hike.
I imagine the phrase "You had one job!" being used in anger more than once.
So basically, conference or nothing; because none of that is gonna clear the house.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
There's still enough 'yes' voted that Collins and Flake can both be 'no' and the law still passes. Realistically, Flake can still claim ignorance on the likelihood of his 'pet' issues but Collins might have to bite the bullet and pretend to have principles.
Unless there's an outpouring of opposition during the conference, this deal is still sealed.
Corker was a no vote on this version, for reasons that won’t change in conference. If Flake and Collins switched their vote, that would be enough to kill the bill.
Well Flake can still claim a relevant ignorance so Collins will be the one biting the bullet.
Or not.
Passing this bill is more important than any of their pet demands. They won't risk the money purse closing for something as pesky as principles.
There's still enough 'yes' voted that Collins and Flake can both be 'no' and the law still passes. Realistically, Flake can still claim ignorance on the likelihood of his 'pet' issues but Collins might have to bite the bullet and pretend to have principles.
Unless there's an outpouring of opposition during the conference, this deal is still sealed.
Corker was a no vote on this version, for reasons that won’t change in conference. If Flake and Collins switched their vote, that would be enough to kill the bill.
Well Flake can still claim a relevant ignorance so Collins will be the one biting the bullet.
Or not.
Passing this bill is more important than any of their pet demands. They won't risk the money purse closing for something as pesky as principles.
But the Freedom Caucus in the House might.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
There's still enough 'yes' voted that Collins and Flake can both be 'no' and the law still passes. Realistically, Flake can still claim ignorance on the likelihood of his 'pet' issues but Collins might have to bite the bullet and pretend to have principles.
Unless there's an outpouring of opposition during the conference, this deal is still sealed.
Corker was a no vote on this version, for reasons that won’t change in conference. If Flake and Collins switched their vote, that would be enough to kill the bill.
Well Flake can still claim a relevant ignorance so Collins will be the one biting the bullet.
Or not.
Passing this bill is more important than any of their pet demands. They won't risk the money purse closing for something as pesky as principles.
I agree it’s unlikely, I just wanted to correct the math.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
There's still enough 'yes' voted that Collins and Flake can both be 'no' and the law still passes. Realistically, Flake can still claim ignorance on the likelihood of his 'pet' issues but Collins might have to bite the bullet and pretend to have principles.
Unless there's an outpouring of opposition during the conference, this deal is still sealed.
Corker was a no vote on this version, for reasons that won’t change in conference. If Flake and Collins switched their vote, that would be enough to kill the bill.
Well Flake can still claim a relevant ignorance so Collins will be the one biting the bullet.
Or not.
Passing this bill is more important than any of their pet demands. They won't risk the money purse closing for something as pesky as principles.
I agree it’s unlikely, I just wanted to correct the math.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
President Trump has done something for coal?
Well, he said a lot of words very loudly, some of which were coal or coal related
and he gutted the EPA
so, yeah, he did something for the people who own coal mining companies
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
edited December 2017
...so since they are trying to simplify taxes to a post card, can we simplify it a little more so I'm not doing the IRS's homework at all?
You know how much money I made and how much I owe. Just shoot me an email that says this:
Here are your taxes: Please check one of the boxes below
1. This is correct
2. This is not correct
...so since they are trying to simplify taxes to a post card, can we simplify it a little more so I'm not doing the IRS's homework at all?
You know how much money I made and how much I owe. Just shoot me an email that says this:
Here are your taxes: Please check one of the boxes below
1. This is correct
2. This is not correct
If I click the bottom I do my taxes.
TurboTax and H&R Block among others lobby hard against it. So probably no time soon.
+41
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
...so since they are trying to simplify taxes to a post card, can we simplify it a little more so I'm not doing the IRS's homework at all?
You know how much money I made and how much I owe. Just shoot me an email that says this:
Here are your taxes: Please check one of the boxes below
1. This is correct
2. This is not correct
If I click the bottom I do my taxes.
TurboTax and H&R Block among others lobby hard against it. So probably no time soon.
I know why...but trump has been ignoring every other lobbyist, maybe this time it could at least help people. Probably raise more money because it would definitely reduce people itemizing, and save money on compliance.
I swear to god if we make it to 2018 without this shit passing I'll... well, I'll be mildly happy. But that's not bad for a 2017 emotion.
Honestly, since it looks like this is actually a corporate tax hike and the estate tax changes aren't that utterly atrocious in the Senate version id almost tell democrats to vote for the debate version not that we'll ever see that bill again of course!
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
0
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
There's still enough 'yes' voted that Collins and Flake can both be 'no' and the law still passes. Realistically, Flake can still claim ignorance on the likelihood of his 'pet' issues but Collins might have to bite the bullet and pretend to have principles.
Unless there's an outpouring of opposition during the conference, this deal is still sealed.
Corker was a no vote on this version, for reasons that won’t change in conference. If Flake and Collins switched their vote, that would be enough to kill the bill.
I know there's skepticism around here, but I'd say it's probably even odds that Collins would vote against if McConnell doesn't keep his promise to fold Alexander-Murray into this week's CR. Corker + Collins rejecting would make it 50/50 in the Senate, with a whole lot resting on the outcome of the Conference negotiations.
Also, it appears that California's Republican delegation in the House has suddenly decided to make a case to restore SALT deductions. If they were to walk, the bill couldn't pass the House.
So if I am understanding that Lily Batchelder twitter...
- They planned to raise taxes on the non-rich/individuals by 80+ Billion, and cut taxes to the rich/corporations by about 45-50 Billion
- Their goof with the AMT was initially believed to reduce that tax cut to effectively zero because it got rid of deductions. oops.
- It turns out their goof actually RAISES taxes on corporations to the tune of over 300 Billion. Oooops.
- It turns out they also may have gotten rid of the big deductions from having stuff in other countries, thereby potentially closing the loophole that allows companies to keep their assets overseas and pay no US taxes on them. OOPS.
Am I understanding this all correctly? Especially that last bit, I am not sure I fully understand that part.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
So if I am understanding that Lily Batchelder twitter...
- They planned to raise taxes on the non-rich/individuals by 80+ Billion, and cut taxes to the rich/corporations by about 45-50 Billion
- Their goof with the AMT was initially believed to reduce that tax cut to effectively zero because it got rid of deductions. oops.
- It turns out their goof actually RAISES taxes on corporations to the tune of over 300 Billion. Oooops.
- It turns out they also may have gotten rid of the big deductions from having stuff in other countries, thereby potentially closing the loophole that allows companies to keep their assets overseas and pay no US taxes on them. OOPS.
Am I understanding this all correctly? Especially that last bit, I am not sure I fully understand that part.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
To be fair, arbys is most likely more toxic to human life than coal.
I ate an engineer
+23
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
To be fair, arbys is most likely more toxic to human life than coal.
Beef is not a very carbon-friendly meat to produce, but still, no.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
If this dumpsters corporations and the donor class...maybe we should be for it?
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
If this dumpsters corporations and the donor class...maybe we should be for it?
No, because it still fucks over the non rich more
+8
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
So if I am understanding that Lily Batchelder twitter...
- They planned to raise taxes on the non-rich/individuals by 80+ Billion, and cut taxes to the rich/corporations by about 45-50 Billion
- Their goof with the AMT was initially believed to reduce that tax cut to effectively zero because it got rid of deductions. oops.
- It turns out their goof actually RAISES taxes on corporations to the tune of over 300 Billion. Oooops.
- It turns out they also may have gotten rid of the big deductions from having stuff in other countries, thereby potentially closing the loophole that allows companies to keep their assets overseas and pay no US taxes on them. OOPS.
Am I understanding this all correctly? Especially that last bit, I am not sure I fully understand that part.
My understanding is thus:
The AMT was always a parallel thing. You paid whatever was higher, the AMT, or the regular rate. However, the AMT is MUCH more limited in what deductions you can claim. So they're still getting cuts, but it's just down to the AMT rate. The AMT was originally expected to be removed, which combined with all the massive extra deductions they were getting, would've reduced taxes to basically nothing (or even refunds), but oops. Added back in. So now the AMT would be the default tax. She's also not saying that it raises taxes in that initial tweet, but that it raises $40B IN taxes (the current amount that's paid to the government in the AMT). So the removal of it only originally 'cost' them $40B. With so many extra businesses expect to hit the AMT, that jumps to $300B instead. The JCT's original estimate was that the total tax cut for corps was $48B. $300B is more than $48B, so there's your theoretically tax increase.
HOWEVER, this is all from what we now know was faulty voodoo math that's rapidly falling apart, so the estimations start falling apart pretty rapidly. There's a lot of interactions that fuck up the math, like the AMT thing obliterates a ton of other deductions that were calculated as being big (business) savings because there's no longer any logical way they can be used since the AMT will always be higher. There's also things that aren't clear how they're supposed to interact, because the bill was written at the last minute by idiots, and the JCT just guessed in their estimates.
Arby's is volatile depending on the quality of your local franchise.
Risk it anyway, life is futile.
Eat at Arbys.
*nods*
An Arby's just opened within lunch drive range and it's great. The staff all care, their dreams haven't been crushed by the jagged rocks of reality yet, and the food is well prepared. I'm wondering how long that will last.
Edit: Whoops, thought this was the SE J°b thread. Off topic here.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
If this dumpsters corporations and the donor class...maybe we should be for it?
No, because it still fucks over the non rich more
It doesn't actually HAVE to. If you presented the bill as is, you could remove all the sunset clauses from the tax cuts on the poor, and probably put the local tax deductions back in and we would still have a revenue positive bill. So democrats could vote for it, and it wouldn't need to be reconciliation
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Just something on background, that always makes me laugh.
This is the same Robert Murray, of Murray Energy, that's suing John Oliver and HBO/Last Week Tonight for libel.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
At the risk of drifting too far off topic, I can pull a couple of articles that state a large percentage of current coal workers are refusing re-education/job placement efforts because DJT and corporate are telling them that their jobs are safe and pay will rebound.
Also worth noting that the Clean Air Act included funding to sunset/glidepath (pick a metaphor) coal so as to lessen the impact of its removal on communities and workers. That Act was repealed by DJT earlier this year.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
At the risk of drifting too far off topic, I can pull a couple of articles that state a large percentage of current coal workers are refusing re-education/job placement efforts because DJT and corporate are telling them that their jobs are safe and pay will rebound.
Also worth noting that the Clean Air Act included funding to sunset/glidepath (pick a metaphor) coal so as to lessen the impact of its removal on communities and workers. That Act was repealed by DJT earlier this year.
IIRC the problem now is that other energy sources are just flat out cheaper than digging up shit out of the ground. Not even talking subsidized rates or anything. We either need to start subsidizing coal, which just isn't anywhere near as useful as the other fuels, or it is going to die out and become very niche.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Just something on background, that always makes me laugh.
This is the same Robert Murray, of Murray Energy, that's suing John Oliver and HBO/Last Week Tonight for libel.
Eat shit, Bob. Kiss my ass.
Also the same Robert Murray who has been leaning hard on Rick Perry to get subsidies for his old and shitty coal plants.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Just something on background, that always makes me laugh.
This is the same Robert Murray, of Murray Energy, that's suing John Oliver and HBO/Last Week Tonight for libel.
Eat at Arby’s, Bob. Kiss my ass.
FTFY
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
So, is there any deadline for the conference bill? Can they keep working on it until next September? Is this their only shot st a reconciliation bill, or can they scrap it completely and start over?
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Just something on background, that always makes me laugh.
This is the same Robert Murray, of Murray Energy, that's suing John Oliver and HBO/Last Week Tonight for libel.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
This is hilarious.
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
But now they finally have an argument in favor of their tax plan: it fucks over the coal industry. They won't be the first people to use it.
So, is there any deadline for the conference bill? Can they keep working on it until next September? Is this their only shot st a reconciliation bill, or can they scrap it completely and start over?
They have all year to use reconciliation, but they wanted to ram it through for a few reasons. First is that Trump has basically nothing to show after being in power for a year now and he wanted a win badly.
Second, this bill is terribly unpopular so they probably wanted to pass it as far away from the 2018 elections as possible, hoping their donors remember and the voters forget.
So, is there any deadline for the conference bill? Can they keep working on it until next September? Is this their only shot st a reconciliation bill, or can they scrap it completely and start over?
They have all year to use reconciliation, but they wanted to ram it through for a few reasons. First is that Trump has basically nothing to show after being in power for a year now and he wanted a win badly.
Second, this bill is terribly unpopular so they probably wanted to pass it as far away from the 2018 elections as possible, hoping their donors remember and the voters forget.
I know why they rushed it to this step, I'm wondering what the deadline for this specific bill is and if they get a do-over if this one falls through.
So, is there any deadline for the conference bill? Can they keep working on it until next September? Is this their only shot st a reconciliation bill, or can they scrap it completely and start over?
They have all year to use reconciliation, but they wanted to ram it through for a few reasons. First is that Trump has basically nothing to show after being in power for a year now and he wanted a win badly.
Second, this bill is terribly unpopular so they probably wanted to pass it as far away from the 2018 elections as possible, hoping their donors remember and the voters forget.
And the longer they wait the more it screws up budget talks
Not that Congress cares but they don't want to work on Christmas
Posts
And since reconcilliation rules would be off the table, they could hold out until ACA fixes and DREAM action was in the actual bill. And those furious donors would be screaming at them to give the Dems whatever feel-good social policy they wanted to unfuck their tax hike.
I imagine the phrase "You had one job!" being used in anger more than once.
So basically, conference or nothing; because none of that is gonna clear the house.
Well Flake can still claim a relevant ignorance so Collins will be the one biting the bullet.
Or not.
Passing this bill is more important than any of their pet demands. They won't risk the money purse closing for something as pesky as principles.
But the Freedom Caucus in the House might.
I agree it’s unlikely, I just wanted to correct the math.
President Trump has done something for coal?
Well, he said a lot of words very loudly, some of which were coal or coal related
and he gutted the EPA
so, yeah, he did something for the people who own coal mining companies
he's done nothing for the workers
What fuckwits.
You know how much money I made and how much I owe. Just shoot me an email that says this:
Here are your taxes: Please check one of the boxes below
1. This is correct
2. This is not correct
If I click the bottom I do my taxes.
TurboTax and H&R Block among others lobby hard against it. So probably no time soon.
Flood em regardless. Let even the hard reds know you're active and pissed and support the no's
Honestly, since it looks like this is actually a corporate tax hike and the estate tax changes aren't that utterly atrocious in the Senate version id almost tell democrats to vote for the debate version
I know there's skepticism around here, but I'd say it's probably even odds that Collins would vote against if McConnell doesn't keep his promise to fold Alexander-Murray into this week's CR. Corker + Collins rejecting would make it 50/50 in the Senate, with a whole lot resting on the outcome of the Conference negotiations.
Also, it appears that California's Republican delegation in the House has suddenly decided to make a case to restore SALT deductions. If they were to walk, the bill couldn't pass the House.
- They planned to raise taxes on the non-rich/individuals by 80+ Billion, and cut taxes to the rich/corporations by about 45-50 Billion
- Their goof with the AMT was initially believed to reduce that tax cut to effectively zero because it got rid of deductions. oops.
- It turns out their goof actually RAISES taxes on corporations to the tune of over 300 Billion. Oooops.
- It turns out they also may have gotten rid of the big deductions from having stuff in other countries, thereby potentially closing the loophole that allows companies to keep their assets overseas and pay no US taxes on them. OOPS.
Am I understanding this all correctly? Especially that last bit, I am not sure I fully understand that part.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Fuckin lol if all of that is true
Coal employs less people than Arbys. Fuck the coal industry. Rich people whining about being less rich while they literally kill their employees. What a joke.
To be fair, arbys is most likely more toxic to human life than coal.
While I don't feel particularly sorry about that guy in general, the point is that their donor class is fucked by this bill. Their goal to risk antagonizing the people in favor of the corporations has just ended up antagonizing everyone and isn't passable now.
Its delicious.
Beef is not a very carbon-friendly meat to produce, but still, no.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
If this dumpsters corporations and the donor class...maybe we should be for it?
No, because it still fucks over the non rich more
Arby's is volatile depending on the quality of your local franchise.
Risk it anyway, life is futile.
Eat at Arbys.
I don't believe so, no. She has some followup tweets explaining more.
https://twitter.com/lilybatch
Also an article from tax lawyers about it.
https://www.taxreformandtransition.com/2017/12/last-minute-retention-of-corporate-amt-in-senate-tax-bill-has-unintended-consequences/
My understanding is thus:
The AMT was always a parallel thing. You paid whatever was higher, the AMT, or the regular rate. However, the AMT is MUCH more limited in what deductions you can claim. So they're still getting cuts, but it's just down to the AMT rate. The AMT was originally expected to be removed, which combined with all the massive extra deductions they were getting, would've reduced taxes to basically nothing (or even refunds), but oops. Added back in. So now the AMT would be the default tax. She's also not saying that it raises taxes in that initial tweet, but that it raises $40B IN taxes (the current amount that's paid to the government in the AMT). So the removal of it only originally 'cost' them $40B. With so many extra businesses expect to hit the AMT, that jumps to $300B instead. The JCT's original estimate was that the total tax cut for corps was $48B. $300B is more than $48B, so there's your theoretically tax increase.
HOWEVER, this is all from what we now know was faulty voodoo math that's rapidly falling apart, so the estimations start falling apart pretty rapidly. There's a lot of interactions that fuck up the math, like the AMT thing obliterates a ton of other deductions that were calculated as being big (business) savings because there's no longer any logical way they can be used since the AMT will always be higher. There's also things that aren't clear how they're supposed to interact, because the bill was written at the last minute by idiots, and the JCT just guessed in their estimates.
*nods*
Edit: Whoops, thought this was the SE J°b thread. Off topic here.
It doesn't actually HAVE to. If you presented the bill as is, you could remove all the sunset clauses from the tax cuts on the poor, and probably put the local tax deductions back in and we would still have a revenue positive bill. So democrats could vote for it, and it wouldn't need to be reconciliation
This is the same Robert Murray, of Murray Energy, that's suing John Oliver and HBO/Last Week Tonight for libel.
Eat shit, Bob. Kiss my ass.
At the risk of drifting too far off topic, I can pull a couple of articles that state a large percentage of current coal workers are refusing re-education/job placement efforts because DJT and corporate are telling them that their jobs are safe and pay will rebound.
Also worth noting that the Clean Air Act included funding to sunset/glidepath (pick a metaphor) coal so as to lessen the impact of its removal on communities and workers. That Act was repealed by DJT earlier this year.
IIRC the problem now is that other energy sources are just flat out cheaper than digging up shit out of the ground. Not even talking subsidized rates or anything. We either need to start subsidizing coal, which just isn't anywhere near as useful as the other fuels, or it is going to die out and become very niche.
Also the same Robert Murray who has been leaning hard on Rick Perry to get subsidies for his old and shitty coal plants.
So yeah. Eat shit, Bob.
FTFY
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But now they finally have an argument in favor of their tax plan: it fucks over the coal industry. They won't be the first people to use it.
They have all year to use reconciliation, but they wanted to ram it through for a few reasons. First is that Trump has basically nothing to show after being in power for a year now and he wanted a win badly.
Second, this bill is terribly unpopular so they probably wanted to pass it as far away from the 2018 elections as possible, hoping their donors remember and the voters forget.
I know why they rushed it to this step, I'm wondering what the deadline for this specific bill is and if they get a do-over if this one falls through.
And the longer they wait the more it screws up budget talks
Not that Congress cares but they don't want to work on Christmas
Mark Takano is a former high school teacher and a current Democratic Representative.
That is...a lot of red.