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[D&D/d20 Discussion] The Everything Game

DenadaDenada Registered User regular
edited April 11 in The Whirlpool
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For millions of years, humanity has relied on the humble d20 to resolve every manner of conflict imaginable. No other type of dice roll has the same kind of reliability, randomness, granularity, predictability, and probability as taking a single twenty-sided die, rolling it, and adding some other number to that number. Sometimes you subtract a number, but science has shown us that subtracting a number is actually the same thing as adding a negative number. Also, not adding anything is actually the same as adding zero, which is a number, so don't think you've found a loophole there. There's always adding.

Many companies and creators have come along over the years to harness the great and terrible power of the d20. There are probably as many d20-based games as there are atoms in the universe, but realistically there's no possible way to know that for sure. Anyway here are some d20 games:

In this thread we talk about D&D and all of the other games that are at least kinda like it. It's still mostly D&D discussion but it's all fair game here.

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Posts

  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Gloomhaven: it's PRETTY GOOD.

    The box may be huge, but I was reasonably impressed with how functional everything in there is; the 5 gold coins are useless, but there's not a lot of the usual Kickstarter cruft otherwise. They could probably slim it down with generic terrain tiles and smaller dials and so on, but as it is it nicely rides the line between attractive and practical.

    That said you will need some kind of storage solution if you don't want to spend half an hour every session sorting it all out. I just went with a trio of Plano boxes for the monster tiles and cards, and that cut things down enormously.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Got my copy in yesterday, first play tomorrow night with my girlfriend, I am the hype. Any advice about character selection for two players?

    I'm also kind of planning on running two 2p campaigns at once, has anyone tried that and had it go horribly wrong? My worry is just that one party will get to do all the cool stuff and the other party will be sad.

    I'm also thinking about ordering that broken token organizer, anyone actually have it? Does it help setup time a lot?

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  • UreshiiAkumaUreshiiAkuma Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    Got my copy in yesterday, first play tomorrow night with my girlfriend, I am the hype. Any advice about character selection for two players?

    For my solo party, I had a lot of success with Brute and Scoundrel. Brute could soak up damage and deal with multiple lesser monsters, and Scoundrel could do some nasty spike damage to elites / bosses.
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    I'm also kind of planning on running two 2p campaigns at once, has anyone tried that and had it go horribly wrong? My worry is just that one party will get to do all the cool stuff and the other party will be sad.

    I have a solo party and a party with my friends going fairly successfully. Not really a spoiler, it is about generic mission sequencing but just in case:
    Very early on, maybe after 3 or 4 missions, the storyline branches, so one party could pursuit one branch, and the other could go down a different branch.


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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    Got my copy in yesterday, first play tomorrow night with my girlfriend, I am the hype. Any advice about character selection for two players?

    I'm also kind of planning on running two 2p campaigns at once, has anyone tried that and had it go horribly wrong? My worry is just that one party will get to do all the cool stuff and the other party will be sad.

    I'm also thinking about ordering that broken token organizer, anyone actually have it? Does it help setup time a lot?

    Don't pick the Tinkerer unless you have 3+ people. She's good, but with 2 characters you don't really need a dedicated support character. Probably the safest 2 character party is Brute/Spellweaver IMO.

    If you're going to run two campaigns at once, use a tracker app for the one that meets less frequently. I personally wouldn't bother with it because there's hundreds of hours of gameplay in the game right out of the box and running two campaigns would mean it would take ages to see all of the content.

    The Broken Token organizer is civilization, buy it and use it. It takes time and effort to put together but once you've done it setup and teardown are about 1000x faster.

    I'm just thinking about running 2 parties because I'll be playing with two different groups of people- it's fine if neither party ever sees all the content IMO.

    Thanks for all the advice! I will definitely pick up the organizer then and avoid the Tinker for the 2p games.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    The guideline I've seen mentioned is using one lost card per rest. Obviously Spellweaver can go bonkers with them, but for most other characters it should see you through to scenario end.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    I didn't care much for the Spellweaver because while the other characters have many, many choices to make during play, the Weaver really only has one-- Play Reviving Ether, or Not. Once RE is played, you can pretty accurately calculate how many turns she has left before passing out.

    The Brute is mandatory for any group smaller than four, I'd say. You really need the big guy out there soaking up damage.

    My solo campaign is Brute/Scoundrel/Tinkerer. All are level 4, but the Brute and Scoundrel are both going to retire quite soon, so I'm looking forward to rolling out two new classes. I bought a bunch of minis from Reaper's Bones line-- Hellhounds, Skeletons, Cultists, Archers-- which really enchance the game, I find, and they won't bankrupt you.

    If you have the recent CONAN game you can probably put a decent set of mooks together just from that.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    I should note that Level 2, the Tinkerer gets Stamina Boost, which allows a character to recover one Lost card, and that would give the Spellweaver a lot more staying power.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Took me about four hours to assemble the Broken Token organizer--I did it while watching Pitt defeat Miami back in November.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Fairchild wrote: »
    I should note that Level 2, the Tinkerer gets Stamina Boost, which allows a character to recover one Lost card, and that would give the Spellweaver a lot more staying power.

    If you're thinking of recovering Reviving Ether, that one is explicitly lost for the rest of the scenario; can't be recovered under any circumstances. Sadly.

    I'm slightly worried our Spellweaver is going to be in it for the long haul, because their quest is both expensive and something we haven't actually got access to yet.
    Enhancements. We've only been mentioning general goals (give money to the church, find some imps), so I don't know exactly how many he needs, but they're limited by prosperity level as well. So his options will be to either dump a bunch of cash enhancing one or two cards, or just wait until prosperity is higher and dump slightly less cash on more.

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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Fry wrote: »
    People keep saying the Scoundrel is good at spike damage, but I haven't really seen it yet. Are you talking about stacking up multiple lost effects (like doing Single Out -> Smoke Bomb -> Backstab), or is it something you get with higher level cards, or what? I don't feel like I can spend more than about one lost card per scenario to avoid running out. The non-loss attacks on level 1 and level X cards don't seem to be dealing that much more damage than other people.

    Smoke Bomb -> Any good damage single target is often a huge spike and often much overkill, I am enjoying scoundrel very much so. Eagle Eye if it's a boss and between having thinned out my deck with perks and getting bless cards, decent chance of critting on it for 4x damage without spending too much on cards. Also important to avoid the null, guaranteeing the 2x is more important than getting that 4x but I like to open on bosses with it and see what happens so that we don't overkill.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Hmm. Just hoping they don't burn out on the character, then. I suppose they could switch over to the Mindthief or Tinkerer if they really get bored, but it's not an ideal outcome. Sort of wish some quests were tied to prosperity or key scenarios or something.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    More Spellweaver quest.
    I already read through the costs going through the rulebook; there wasn't a "stop reading here" or anything on it. It's just that I could see this player spending what I would on my entire quest on one fraction of his, and we don't even have the ability for him to do so yet. Really seems like it should be gated somehow.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Let him choose a new personal quest ? I deliberately chose quests which seemed close to the character's personality-- the Scoundrel, for example, has the Perfect Poison quest.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    We're on the new version, so no worries there. This is all hypothetical anyway; he's been having a decent amount of fun just blowing everything up with his insane magic, so maybe he'll be fine doing that for a while. I swear like every card he plays goes into his lost pile.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    I figure if I ever get to the point where I've completed the whole thing and want to go for another round, it probably deserves to be bought again. I mean, conservatively, it's going to take us a couple of years to get through this monstrosity. And by then the expansion will be out, soooo.

    As far as quests go, I went thematic as well.
    My Cragheart wants to donate a bunch of money to the sanctuary. Finding faith is a pretty likely thing after getting his chest smashed in for being worthless, and having to rob a bunch of people to fuel that faith is plenty entertaining. Cragheart isn't great for looting, but I picked up a fancy gadget that I immediately sold, so I'm doing fine for cash at the moment

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    We'll be doing that one next week. Only managing one scenario a session at the moment, but I'm in no rush. At least it's not another bloody crypt.

    Scenario #4:
    You completed a crypt? Have more crypts! At least the last one had demons instead of more distressingly fast skeletons.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    We hit at least 6 of them, which was rough. None of the big attacks, thankfully, but that "ignore scenario effects" perk is looking pretty nice.

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  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Fry wrote: »
    We hit at least 6 of them, which was rough. None of the big attacks, thankfully, but that "ignore scenario effects" perk is looking pretty nice.

    We made a big mistake too
    We didn’t realize that the number of curse cards that could affect your characters was limited, so we accidentally threw some monster curse cards into our decks too. We had 16 total! And we still managed to eke out a win.

    I strongly suspect that my group made the same mistake
    but I was not in the room during setup, so I'm not sure. I think someone read the scenario rule as "each player gets three curses" and I think I found out later that there should only exist ten player curses? (not sure how you would have gotten to 16).

    Really weird design decision to have the scenario rule violate the component limit like that. So do you just decide how to divide up the curses then if there aren't enough?

    Oh you’re right it was 3 apiece
    I saw the creator post on BGG that two get 3 and two get 2, as the official explanation, since you can only use as many as you have

    Why that design decision happened:
    Because originally there was no division between player curses and monster curses. There were just 20 curse cards and they went where they went. Breaking them up was an errata made later on, presumably because getting to flood the monster deck with 20 curses can trivialize just about any scenario (and is not difficult to do for certain classes if you build for it). When updating the scenario book for second edition, Isaac Childres either forgot to change the "add 3 curses" special effect, or just didn't want to change the scenario balance.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Retired the Brute tonite and unlocked the guy with two boxes.
    Beast Tyrant. Holy Cow, Summoning for days !

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  • KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Me and my partner have been playing this. I picked it up after hearing about it because it sounded like totally a game I'd be super into. Good news, it is!

    She's never really played a board game like this so we failed the first scenario a couple of times but now we've got things under control. We're running a brute/mindthief combo and it's working out alright, just finished scenario 3 tonight! I think we've got like 5 places we could go next? I've got the feeling we've got our weekends cut out for us for awhile.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    5 missions in and really enjoying the game, but setup and teardown are a bitch.

    Brute+Cragheart seem really solid together.

    Minor Potion of Stamina seems insane.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    The Scoundrel finished Perfect Poison and retired, unlocking Cthulhu.

    Looking at Cthulhu's cards-- Dang.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Fry wrote: »
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    Minor Potion of Stamina seems insane.

    I think that might vary by character and by how much you've upgraded your cards. If you have a good/important non-lost card or two that you want to be using all the time, it's pretty good, but so far I haven't found it to be that useful for my level 1 scoundrel. Most of my cards are pretty samey, so it doesn't do much other than stave off exhaustion for one turn.

    I went back and reread it says "recover discarded" instead of "recover lost". Whoops!

    I had been recovering lost cards :(

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Well, it's a minor potion. I assume there's a major one available eventually; maybe that lets you reclaim lost cards. The minors are still useful, though, letting you use something twice in a row without having to short rest.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    A short list of rules mistakes I've made so far in Gloomhaven:
    • "Recover discarded" is not "recover lost"
    • Traps are not obstacles, so "destroy an obstacle" doesn't work on traps
    • You get the loot from opening a treasure chest immediately, not at the end of the scenario. Only the person opening the chest gets the reward.
    • Monsters can move through other monsters.
    • Ranged monsters who have a "move, attack" card and start adjacent to character will move one step away to avoid disadvantage

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    You get loot immediately, but if it's an item you can't actually equip it until the scenario's done, since "choose your gear" happens at the beginning. I'm not sure it ever matters if you wait til after the scenario to find out what you've got, except then you'd have to wait to open your present, which so far we have not managed to do.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    You get loot immediately, but if it's an item you can't actually equip it until the scenario's done, since "choose your gear" happens at the beginning. I'm not sure it ever matters if you wait til after the scenario to find out what you've got, except then you'd have to wait to open your present, which so far we have not managed to do.

    Without spoiling, it matters.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Oh durr, yeah, we've already encountered a situation where it would matter. Nevermind.

    Anyway, session report for this week: spoilers for scenarios #3 and #8, a few events, and the Sanctuary donation unlock.
    The Spellweaver was off meditating somewhere this week, so the other three ventured out to a bandit camp (#3), as taking Jekserah up on her offer was more appealing than the prospect of another bloody crypt. Said camp turned out to be more of a permanent home than expected, and an unfortunate purge was the result. Nobody was very happy about that, especially when Jekserah herself just kind of dismissed both it and us out of hand.

    Naturally we immediately entered a pie-eating contest after this, because nothing says cheerful like hurling up a bunch of apple and pastry. At least the audience was impressed. The Sanctuary doesn't discriminate when it comes to donations, though, and gold from fruit-stained hobos is as good as any other. (We unlocked the ability to... donate more gold. But a surer path to prosperity is quite nice).

    Didn't take a great deal of thought to agree with the guard telling us that Jekserah is a bit of a dick, and so it was off to her warehouse (#8), which (shock, surprise) was full of the skeletons we've been trying to avoid. Sigh. At least the indoor environment provided plenty of walls and tables for the Cragheart to throw them into. (He might also have stolen a treasure that the Scoundrel stepped into a trap for). He was thoroughly shown up in the final room, at least, when the Brute basically headbutted one of Jekserah's massive bodyguards to death by himself, and a combination of poison and a brutal point-blank flintlock blast mostly dealt with the other. The merchant herself has fled, sadly, but we have plenty of adventure options now between a side quest, the crypts, and the leads she left behind.

    (Despite playing on Hard now and with only three players, we pretty much steamrolled both missions. The guards at the camp seemed to just shield/retaliate 90% of the time, and the shamans did regular move-and-attacks apart from a couple of heals. The undead at the warehouse went down real fast, and the Inox Bodyguards had all of about two rounds of actions; the Brute seriously just crushed one by himself with enormous crits after using his fastest move and boots of striding, followed by that "attack X, where X is how much you moved", plus the helmet that adds one damage for faster movement. Still fun, though.)

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    I'm doing one party goody two shoes and one party Evil Bad Guys and it's been fun so far.
    The baddy bads were forced to rescue a puppy from the side of the road though, I mean they're evil but they're not THAT evil

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    I have played Brute and Spellweaver and really enjoyed them both so far. The glass cannon design on Spellweaver is just really fun, there's always tension between just blowing all your one-shots and trying to make them last.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    I'm on Cragheart too. The Brute seems to be doing more damage, but I can throw people into tables, and soon, I'll be able to throw tables into people. And have them explode. I'm pretty okay with this idea.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Saurfang wrote: »
    The Scoundrel combat deck is a thing of beauty.

    Strictly single-target damage, which is the only drawback. That single target does not usually last very long, however.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    I'm actually really excited to add some rolling element generation to my Spellweaver modifier deck.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    You'd think that Throwing Knives would be more valuable, but I found myself always discarding that one first during a Long Rest.

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Then there's the Brute's similar Spare Dagger which is maybe the best card in his deck....

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    The best card in the Brute's deck is the "You over there, You're Dead" card. Which he receives at Level 2 !

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Fairchild wrote: »
    The best card in the Brute's deck is the "You over there, You're Dead" card. Which he receives at Level 2 !

    It's good, but it's a loss, it doesn't work on elites, it doesn't work on named specials or bosses, it's melee range. I'm sure once your'e doing level 7 scenarios it reads like "loss: do 15 damage" or something, but "attack 3 range 3 get an experience no loss" is just incredible at all times, and Spare Dagger comes with an attack on the bottom!

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  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    I bought GH a month ago, but I haven't had time to try it yet (other than a quick 1-room random solo dungeon to see if I've understood the rules).

    Quick question about ranged units: A monster ranged unit with, say a range 4 attack is 3 hexes away from the closest PC and draws a move + attack card. It will then move towards the PC until it has 1 hex between itself and the PC (assuming it has enough movement) and then do a ranged attack, right?

    I ask, because the smart move would be to move as far away from the PC as it could while still being in range to attack, but as far as I can tell the rules say to move towards the PC anyway.

    My understand is that it will move the minimum number of hexes to perform an attack, so it would stand still and shoot. But I have been wrong about the rules for this game quite a lot!

    (More technically, I think it first chooses to focus on the character that requires the fewest number of hexes for it to move to attack without disadvantage; then it performs that minimum number of moves while trying to maximize the number of targets its attacks will hit without disadvantage.)

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited 11:36AM
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    Fairchild wrote: »
    The best card in the Brute's deck is the "You over there, You're Dead" card. Which he receives at Level 2 !

    It's good, but it's a loss, it doesn't work on elites, it doesn't work on named specials or bosses, it's melee range. I'm sure once your'e doing level 7 scenarios it reads like "loss: do 15 damage" or something, but "attack 3 range 3 get an experience no loss" is just incredible at all times, and Spare Dagger comes with an attack on the bottom!

    It won't take 'til Level 7 to come up against guys with enough health for it to be worth it. Once you guys get out of "Bandits and Skeletons and Zombies," territory it gains a lot of value.

    Word. Especially against the Shield 3 and Shield 4 guys, who are such a pain in the rear end to whittle down while waiting for the x2 damage card to appear.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited 11:35AM
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    I bought GH a month ago, but I haven't had time to try it yet (other than a quick 1-room random solo dungeon to see if I've understood the rules).

    Quick question about ranged units: A monster ranged unit with, say a range 4 attack is 3 hexes away from the closest PC and draws a move + attack card. It will then move towards the PC until it has 1 hex between itself and the PC (assuming it has enough movement) and then do a ranged attack, right?

    I ask, because the smart move would be to move as far away from the PC as it could while still being in range to attack, but as far as I can tell the rules say to move towards the PC anyway.

    My understand is that it will move the minimum number of hexes to perform an attack, so it would stand still and shoot. But I have been wrong about the rules for this game quite a lot!

    (More technically, I think it first chooses to focus on the character that requires the fewest number of hexes for it to move to attack without disadvantage; then it performs that minimum number of moves while trying to maximize the number of targets its attacks will hit without disadvantage.)

    Slight addendum: they still prioritize their focus, so even if they could hit three other people with their attack, if the only way to do so was to take disadvantage against their focus, they wouldn't.

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