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Twilight Imperium 4e - Game 2 - Round 7: Game Over!

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Posts

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    I actually think the Winnu starting fleet is better than Muuat's.
    Muaat's single War Sun means defending your territory and being aggressive at the same time is fairly impossible, up until midgame or so.

    1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 infantry, 2 fighters > 1 warsun, 2 fighters, 4 infantry?????

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Yes

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    That said, Muuat is not required to push immediately to MR, so Winnu's going to be as overextended as Muaat anyway.

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Also you forgot Winnu's PDS unit.

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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Yes

    o_O

  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Yes

    I would be ecstatic to switch fleets with muaat (or probably anyone else). 4 infantry makes the start much more flexible - take 2 and leave 2 home; that's a better defense than a PDS anyway. Additionally, you only need a carrier for a second expansion route, winnu needs carrier + 2 infantry build, which is more than the homeworld provides

    Not to mention the raw resource advantage of winnu's 7R vs muaat's 15R fleet, the only thing you actually lack in any sense is a PDS and that just costs about 1 CC

    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
    mindflare77
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Ok.
    That carrier+2Inf problem is a good point that I had overlooked.

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  • KetarKetar My autocomplete is a tad agressive today.Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Yes

    I would be ecstatic to switch fleets with muaat (or probably anyone else). 4 infantry makes the start much more flexible - take 2 and leave 2 home; that's a better defense than a PDS anyway. Additionally, you only need a carrier for a second expansion route, winnu needs carrier + 2 infantry build, which is more than the homeworld provides

    Not to mention the raw resource advantage of winnu's 7R vs muaat's 15R fleet, the only thing you actually lack in any sense is a PDS and that just costs about 1 CC

    Isn't that exactly what the homeworld provides if you take Sarween Tools as your starting tech?

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    But then you're not taking anti-mass deflectors to get gravity drive and have a shot at reaching Mecatol first.

    Winnu need to reach Mecatol first.

    mindflare77
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited February 24
    It only worked out for me because I double warfared and I had a yellow specialty to get my racial and also get a 2nd carrier out turn 2. And even then I would have just straight lost if muaat had wanted to attack me and I hadn't had the diplomacy rider

    And with the homeworld only being 3R you can't just buy a tech turn 1 either

    Phyphor on
    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
    mindflare77Preda
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    We didn't buy a tech turn one either.
    Really, the scenarios where buying tech turn one would be advisable (for anyone) is when Warfare hasn't been selected, or where Diplomacy has been selected.
    Otherwise, you're spending your entire resources that turn spreading out.

    And Muuat can't spread out its offensive power, at 1 speed, on their 'carrier'. Whereas the Cruiser can get around at least, and the PDS remains home.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited February 24
    One cruiser loses to carrier + 2 fighters (a fairly common early game colonizing fleet) 90% of the time with an average result of carrier + 1.36 fighters left, it's a very weak force projection. A warsun and 2 fighters wins 99% of the time vs carrier + cruiser + 2 fighters

    Muaat can build carrier + 2 fighters T1 and then pick up the infantry left behind without losing tempo or leaving any big holes, particularly if you border an anomaly

    Leaving the 2 fighters home is also mostly better protection than a PDS is

    Phyphor on
    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Eh.
    People can go around the War Sun though due to its single speed, in a way that they can't go around the PDS nor reinforcing Cruisers.

    Maybe I need to look at what 'aggression' would look like from another race's point of view, but I really don't like how the Muuat War Sun has to stay home or attack, when other races have far more flexibility with regards to attacking other races.
    It's all or nothing.
    And so it feels like you can just hit Muuat where the War Sun is not.

    Maybe this is always the case though, and it's just more obvious in Muuat's single unit.
    The force that's defending has the materiel advantage by having all its forces concentrated, and so attacking leaves a hole in the attacker's defense.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    It's certainly more explicit in muaat's case, but carriers only have a move of 1 too and a single cruiser is suitable only for picking off unescorted carriers. Muaat is in the position where initial all out aggression is actually possible because you start with a fleet that beats all others

    And it's not like you can't build other ships

    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
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