CaptainBeyondI've been out walkingRegistered Userregular
Just questing through Drustvar as arms for now, taking it nice and slow. Completed the Great Sea Scrolls quest from the treasure chests, need to go and get the helmet from it. Mining and blacksmithing feels slow to level, I guess they want to draw out that 150 cap for professions.
0
Options
drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
Blizzard has issues with showing the Alliance as doing anything "bad" which leaves them as very one dimensional. It also leads to very unfortunate implications at times
I feel like they could do with more infighting on the alliance side. Like, VanCleef's entire arc is some great stuff to me.
Origin: HaxtonWasHere
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
+4
Options
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
The problem is that they've backed themselves into having the Alliance as The Good Guys and the Horde as The Bad Guys for years now and they don't have the writing chops to pull off conflicted good guys or sympathetic bad guys.
I was getting into the plot stuff leveling through Alliance areas, despite loathing a lot of the ridiculous mob density/low drop rate quest items/pointless elites patrolling through areas.
Then I walk into Brennadam and I'm back to fuming at the trash writing. And this is a severely toned down version, because the beta version of this had 'kill every single civilian' as a direct order from Sylvannas.
I hope endgame turns me around, cuz so far this is my personal worst x-pac by a wide margin.
Blizzard has issues with showing the Alliance as doing anything "bad" which leaves them as very one dimensional. It also leads to very unfortunate implications at times
I feel like they could do with more infighting on the alliance side. Like, VanCleef's entire arc is some great stuff to me.
There's definitely room there with the Worgen (given their history and leaving the old Alliance), and Dark Iron (who spent centuries in civil war with the other clans).
I was getting into the plot stuff leveling through Alliance areas, despite loathing a lot of the ridiculous mob density/low drop rate quest items/pointless elites patrolling through areas.
Then I walk into Brennadam and I'm back to fuming at the trash writing. And this is a severely toned down version, because the beta version of this had 'kill every single civilian' as a direct order from Sylvannas.
I hope endgame turns me around, cuz so far this is my personal worst x-pac by a wide margin.
Thought it was pretty uncomfortable to burn what, 300 goblins to death in that alliance stronghold mission.
They could of at least given them weapons but no they're all unarmed.
At least they actively acknowledge that the ‘re-unite undead with their living families’ was always a smokescreen meant to destabilize the horde, considering the alliances constant revulsion at the mere existence of the undead
The problem is that they've backed themselves into having the Alliance as The Good Guys and the Horde as The Bad Guys for years now and they don't have the writing chops to pull off conflicted good guys or sympathetic bad guys.
It's really easy to write a few misunderstandings in there to justify the escalation, they just didn't want to do it. I think they know that the Horde doing war crimes is going to stir up more intense reactions than a more mundane story. But the Alliance doing war crimes is pushing the fans a bit too hard, Horde players are more likely to tolerate it.
Their recent justification that the Horde has always been inconsistent in its portrayal in WoW has some truth to it, though. With the inclusion of the undead, it's always been oscillating between thrall's noble and honorable intentions, and the undead trying to create a new plague, and hasn't really squared them. They appear to be coming to that bridge, narratively speaking, with Sylvanas becoming the warchief.
+1
Options
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
As an alliance player, this has been one of my favorites. It hits a ton of great notes in Tiragarde.
Urrrrrgh, I've forgotten how bad random players are. And now that nobody's pumped in ilvl, there are no carries.
+1
Options
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Here's a fun thing about 8.0. For those who may not know, for all of Legion Hunters were basically just food in PvP. We had no real toolkit and our damage didn't give us any edge. In 8.0, Hunters are really really good in PvP. Our base toolkit got expanded and we can stand up damage wise pretty well, and the new pet utilities are quite powerful.
People keep jumping me when I'm just trying to go past them, and then dying because my class isn't farm anymore. El oh el.
Urrrrrgh, I've forgotten how bad random players are. And now that nobody's pumped in ilvl, there are no carries.
In my limited dungeon experience so far, everyone sure does think there are carries though! Tanks just pulling EVERYTHING. Also both waycrest manor groups I've done have run right up the stairs at the start, despite the door being open on the bottom. Then everyone stands around at the closed door, confused.
I generally can't get excited about anything Alliance side, myself. Oh, the humans are allying with more humans and "close enoughs to humans", and also those humans are a very thinly veiled allegory for Britain at their height as a maritime empire(and at their peak racist). Cheahs, luv!
Most of it is about Jaina, in the end, which is somewhat irritating if you, like me, think that 1) she was right to let her father die and not commit genocide, 2) that Theramore was partially her fault for letting the Alliance use it as a staging point, which even under Thrall was a red line, and 3) maybe locking up all Sunreavers because one agent did something bad is letting your racism show a little bit.
What's double irritating is that the game seems to be bending over backwards to try and portray her as being a Cassandra, and that racism and genocide are totes the right answer.
I didn't really get that feeling.
In the sequence where you team up with Katherine to rescue Jaina from the Drust, the flashbacks pretty clearly show that Daelin was a monster. Katherine at least accepts that Jaina was right to stand up to him.
That's not really rejecting racism and genocide, but... it's at least setting the stage for Jaina to take a step back from her over the top anti-Horde extremism.
As an alliance player, this has been one of my favorites. It hits a ton of great notes in Tiragarde.
Drustvar might be the best zone I've ever gone through.
Drustvar and Stormsong are both incredible. They're both visually striking in their own way, and both provide fresh new lore and add interesting nuance into the world. Stormwind humans were always boring bastards and in the hypothetical case of a Warcraft 4/WoW2 I would absolutely love it if the Kul Tirans took over the mantle of the main Alliance faction.
The horde zones are fun, the areas are visually interesting (even Vol'Dun) and the stories are great.
I'm almost done with the Horde side, so I'll start on the alliance probably by Monday. Just a matter of deciding for sure what class I want to play... Mage, Hunter, Warlock, Druid, or Priest...
XBL = MoP54
PSN = PessimistMaximus
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I generally can't get excited about anything Alliance side, myself. Oh, the humans are allying with more humans and "close enoughs to humans", and also those humans are a very thinly veiled allegory for Britain at their height as a maritime empire(and at their peak racist). Cheahs, luv!
Most of it is about Jaina, in the end, which is somewhat irritating if you, like me, think that 1) she was right to let her father die and not commit genocide, 2) that Theramore was partially her fault for letting the Alliance use it as a staging point, which even under Thrall was a red line, and 3) maybe locking up all Sunreavers because one agent did something bad is letting your racism show a little bit.
What's double irritating is that the game seems to be bending over backwards to try and portray her as being a Cassandra, and that racism and genocide are totes the right answer.
What does this phrase mean?
Also my one problem with Jaina is the mixed-messaging we got between her Harbingers video and her arrival on Theramore. In the former, it's "beware of me," very sinister. In the latter, it's, "mommy I'm sorry I deserve to die." What the fuck?
I generally can't get excited about anything Alliance side, myself. Oh, the humans are allying with more humans and "close enoughs to humans", and also those humans are a very thinly veiled allegory for Britain at their height as a maritime empire(and at their peak racist). Cheahs, luv!
Most of it is about Jaina, in the end, which is somewhat irritating if you, like me, think that 1) she was right to let her father die and not commit genocide, 2) that Theramore was partially her fault for letting the Alliance use it as a staging point, which even under Thrall was a red line, and 3) maybe locking up all Sunreavers because one agent did something bad is letting your racism show a little bit.
What's double irritating is that the game seems to be bending over backwards to try and portray her as being a Cassandra, and that racism and genocide are totes the right answer.
I'm also not entirely comfortable with a read of the story where Jaina would be partially "at fault" for the bombing of Theramore. Lore-wise, Theramore had military support for three reasons prior to Cataclysm - Dealing with Grimtotem antagonizers, dealing with rebels who wanted to go to war with the Horde, and searching for the kidnapped king. It was only after the Horde leadership was given to Garrosh and he began his expansionist campaign that Theramore became a staging point against the Horde. And I don't really know that you can place any blame for Theramore on that? Garrosh was an expansionist orc supremacist. Just staying neutral and hoping that you'll be ignored is not really a viable tactic. I mean christ, you go in to the Siege of Orgrimmar and you find that they've been keeping Theramore civilians captive as prisoners all this time, torturing them and making them fight one another. That kind of shows how fucked Garrosh's Horde is!
I know that the Alliance writing has been very frustrating for some of you but turning to reads like that just seems very nihilistic and uncomfortable.
+3
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I'm running around the Horde zones today trying to get through whatever quests I can. The zone with the Horde's hub city was hardest to navigate as far as going from the west side to the east via land route. Alliance story questing opens up a flight point on each side, but I had to explore in-land anyway.
You know, people always point at humans being unarmed and saying that makes them civilians.
But humans with swords and shields and armor do pretty much the same amount of damage as humans with fists, from my experience.
Have we considered that maybe all humans are just all soldiers all the time? Maybe that's why they call them "armed."
Its explicitly a farm town that, prior to the horde attack, lost all of its soldiers due to human politicking shenanigans. The only people in Brennadan were farmers and townsfolk and a single guard that defected.
You know, people always point at humans being unarmed and saying that makes them civilians.
But humans with swords and shields and armor do pretty much the same amount of damage as humans with fists, from my experience.
Have we considered that maybe all humans are just all soldiers all the time? Maybe that's why they call them "armed."
Its explicitly a farm town that, prior to the horde attack, lost all of its soldiers due to human politicking shenanigans. The only people in Brennadan were farmers and townsfolk and a single guard that defected.
Look, all I'm saying is that I'm the champion of the Horde, grandmaster of all monks, and those villagers can beat me up. They could probably invade Orgimmar if they put their minds to it.
You know, people always point at humans being unarmed and saying that makes them civilians.
But humans with swords and shields and armor do pretty much the same amount of damage as humans with fists, from my experience.
Have we considered that maybe all humans are just all soldiers all the time? Maybe that's why they call them "armed."
Its explicitly a farm town that, prior to the horde attack, lost all of its soldiers due to human politicking shenanigans. The only people in Brennadan were farmers and townsfolk and a single guard that defected.
Look, all I'm saying is that I'm the champion of the Horde, grandmaster of all monks, and those villagers can beat me up. They could probably invade Orgimmar if they put their minds to it.
Is this a "fresh 120s are weak as kittens" joke? Just need to staff Orgrimmar with 111s that disable experience gains.
+1
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I've seen this angle ingame and always meant to screenshot it, but someone beat me to it
Enchanting gets a wrist enchant that reduces the cooldown of Hearthstones by 5 minutes. Guild perk reduces it by 15. The new mission table perk reduces it by 40%.
I'm also not entirely comfortable with a read of the story where Jaina would be partially "at fault" for the bombing of Theramore. Lore-wise, Theramore had military support for three reasons prior to Cataclysm - Dealing with Grimtotem antagonizers, dealing with rebels who wanted to go to war with the Horde, and searching for the kidnapped king. It was only after the Horde leadership was given to Garrosh and he began his expansionist campaign that Theramore became a staging point against the Horde. And I don't really know that you can place any blame for Theramore on that? Garrosh was an expansionist orc supremacist. Just staying neutral and hoping that you'll be ignored is not really a viable tactic. I mean christ, you go in to the Siege of Orgrimmar and you find that they've been keeping Theramore civilians captive as prisoners all this time, torturing them and making them fight one another. That kind of shows how fucked Garrosh's Horde is!
I know that the Alliance writing has been very frustrating for some of you but turning to reads like that just seems very nihilistic and uncomfortable.
i really felt they should have made Org look like what it did in the Seige back in cata because i really fell it would have told a better story than just having a generic city
The problem is that they've backed themselves into having the Alliance as The Good Guys and the Horde as The Bad Guys for years now and they don't have the writing chops to pull off conflicted good guys or sympathetic bad guys.
It's really easy to write a few misunderstandings in there to justify the escalation, they just didn't want to do it. I think they know that the Horde doing war crimes is going to stir up more intense reactions than a more mundane story. But the Alliance doing war crimes is pushing the fans a bit too hard, Horde players are more likely to tolerate it.
Was browsing over mmo-champ and apparently there was a dev/lead writer interview, summary:
What the Horde stands for has changed over time. Is it a group driven by honor and courage or a disparate collection of outcasts that nobody will align themselves with.
Battle for Azeroth is an opportunity to look at both sides that have made up the Horde storylines throughout the years and pull them together.
It may be a chance for the Horde to look inward and become something new and stronger.
Sylvanas and Saurfang are embodying the other aspects of what the Horde was.
To get to the future of the Horde, we have to face the Horde’s past.
The Alliance has its share of disparity and there's going to be a self-examination of what the Alliance is about and how they want to behave.
Does the Alliance want to get revenge on the Horde, or do they want to build a better world?
There is room for what the Alliance and Horde represent to evolve and change and for their relationship to change.
Player's identity is very much tied to their faction and the things they have done for it, so it wouldn't be something the team would take away lightly.
This expansion focuses on shaping what the factions mean in the world and how they interact with one another.
So it seems to lack a lot of self awareness about both factions as they stand. There's nothing indicative of disparity in the alliance or how they'll behave or react to anything, to me they look like they're just writing themselves at this point.
They're not going to get rid of factions, The "Face the horde's past" is...well it feels a bit insulting honestly. We did that with Garrosh.
Are we going to have to go through and purge each horde faction per expansion going forward? Gallywix next?
We did this whole looking inwards and becoming better, sylvanas entire arc was doing that when she became warchief...and they just threw it away.
The problem is that they've backed themselves into having the Alliance as The Good Guys and the Horde as The Bad Guys for years now and they don't have the writing chops to pull off conflicted good guys or sympathetic bad guys.
It's really easy to write a few misunderstandings in there to justify the escalation, they just didn't want to do it. I think they know that the Horde doing war crimes is going to stir up more intense reactions than a more mundane story. But the Alliance doing war crimes is pushing the fans a bit too hard, Horde players are more likely to tolerate it.
Wat?
I'd say it's the other way round. There's a quest where you burn 200-300 unarmed goblins to death as alliance. It's treated like a good laugh.
No one seems to care. Then again it does appear to be mostly alliance players getting upset at Horde's actions...so maybe it only counts if it's the other faction.
with the explicit aim (Sylvanas' direct orders) to murder everyone
so that they can be raised as undead
the moral greyness is just staggering
Two things about this of note.
One, they retconned the orders before release to say to minimize civilian casualties. That it ever said otherwise is an embarrassment, however.
Two, it's apparently retaliation against a significant logistical target in response to an attack against Warfang. Which was actually the doing of Lord Stormsong and his cult, so they just fucked up either way.
Even with that, the NPCs are cackling cartoon villains intentionally tormenting civilians throughout the area, so it's still a complete farce.
tl;dr fuck every single aspect of the faction war writing
Cross-posting myself from the SE-WoW thread: WoWhead's managed to get some info on a quest that starts after players hit Revered with Zandalari Empire and finish the island's storyline in full. Spoilers ahead.
It involves Vol'jin's ashes being brought to the island to be interned there only for players to deal with Zalazane's ghost. As it turns out, Vol'jin's spirit was keeping Zalazane's in check so once the latter's taken care of, the player takes the ashes to Bwonsamdi who claims that he hasn't seen Vol'jin in a while. And when he checks the ashes, he says this.
Ay, Vol'jin? Come on outta dat urn. Wait... wait, wait... no! Where be da spirit?! Where be Vol'jin?
No! No! Impossible. Da boss ain't gonna like dis. Ol' Bwonsamdi not been losin' a spirit in... oh, dis be bad.
Oh, and when Zalazane's defeated earlier with Vol'jin's Glave, Zal says this.
What? Vol'jin... you could not have grown so strong without becoming... a...
i dunno man i feel like this thread has had a whole bunch of horde players upset with the horde's actions
If by horde players you mean they play alliance and in many cases just never did horde side at all. Then yes that is my experience. It doesn't really change my point though.
It's all good fun when alliance does some war crimes. They're the good guys so it's not evil. The writing and players reactions seems to reflect that.
Posts
I feel like they could do with more infighting on the alliance side. Like, VanCleef's entire arc is some great stuff to me.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Then I walk into Brennadam and I'm back to fuming at the trash writing. And this is a severely toned down version, because the beta version of this had 'kill every single civilian' as a direct order from Sylvannas.
I hope endgame turns me around, cuz so far this is my personal worst x-pac by a wide margin.
There's definitely room there with the Worgen (given their history and leaving the old Alliance), and Dark Iron (who spent centuries in civil war with the other clans).
Thought it was pretty uncomfortable to burn what, 300 goblins to death in that alliance stronghold mission.
They could of at least given them weapons but no they're all unarmed.
It's really easy to write a few misunderstandings in there to justify the escalation, they just didn't want to do it. I think they know that the Horde doing war crimes is going to stir up more intense reactions than a more mundane story. But the Alliance doing war crimes is pushing the fans a bit too hard, Horde players are more likely to tolerate it.
People keep jumping me when I'm just trying to go past them, and then dying because my class isn't farm anymore. El oh el.
In my limited dungeon experience so far, everyone sure does think there are carries though! Tanks just pulling EVERYTHING. Also both waycrest manor groups I've done have run right up the stairs at the start, despite the door being open on the bottom. Then everyone stands around at the closed door, confused.
I didn't really get that feeling.
That's not really rejecting racism and genocide, but... it's at least setting the stage for Jaina to take a step back from her over the top anti-Horde extremism.
Drustvar might be the best zone I've ever gone through.
Drustvar and Stormsong are both incredible. They're both visually striking in their own way, and both provide fresh new lore and add interesting nuance into the world. Stormwind humans were always boring bastards and in the hypothetical case of a Warcraft 4/WoW2 I would absolutely love it if the Kul Tirans took over the mantle of the main Alliance faction.
I'm almost done with the Horde side, so I'll start on the alliance probably by Monday. Just a matter of deciding for sure what class I want to play... Mage, Hunter, Warlock, Druid, or Priest...
PSN = PessimistMaximus
Also my one problem with Jaina is the mixed-messaging we got between her Harbingers video and her arrival on Theramore. In the former, it's "beware of me," very sinister. In the latter, it's, "mommy I'm sorry I deserve to die." What the fuck?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I know that the Alliance writing has been very frustrating for some of you but turning to reads like that just seems very nihilistic and uncomfortable.
(Alliance spoilers)
quote from a post I saw about it
Sneaking in to that city for the fishing achievement really makes me appreciate the layout of Borallus.
But humans with swords and shields and armor do pretty much the same amount of damage as humans with fists, from my experience.
Have we considered that maybe all humans are just all soldiers all the time? Maybe that's why they call them "armed."
Its explicitly a farm town that, prior to the horde attack, lost all of its soldiers due to human politicking shenanigans. The only people in Brennadan were farmers and townsfolk and a single guard that defected.
Look, all I'm saying is that I'm the champion of the Horde, grandmaster of all monks, and those villagers can beat me up. They could probably invade Orgimmar if they put their minds to it.
Is this a "fresh 120s are weak as kittens" joke? Just need to staff Orgrimmar with 111s that disable experience gains.
i really felt they should have made Org look like what it did in the Seige back in cata because i really fell it would have told a better story than just having a generic city
I started on Azshara but I'm pretty flexible on servers given how early on it is.
Steam: CavilatRest
Horde PA guild thread:. https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/220892/maybe-teldrassil-just-collapsed-on-its-own-se-wow#latest
Wat?
So it seems to lack a lot of self awareness about both factions as they stand. There's nothing indicative of disparity in the alliance or how they'll behave or react to anything, to me they look like they're just writing themselves at this point.
They're not going to get rid of factions, The "Face the horde's past" is...well it feels a bit insulting honestly. We did that with Garrosh.
Are we going to have to go through and purge each horde faction per expansion going forward? Gallywix next?
We did this whole looking inwards and becoming better, sylvanas entire arc was doing that when she became warchief...and they just threw it away.
I'd say it's the other way round. There's a quest where you burn 200-300 unarmed goblins to death as alliance. It's treated like a good laugh.
No one seems to care. Then again it does appear to be mostly alliance players getting upset at Horde's actions...so maybe it only counts if it's the other faction.
Two things about this of note.
Two, it's apparently retaliation against a significant logistical target in response to an attack against Warfang. Which was actually the doing of Lord Stormsong and his cult, so they just fucked up either way.
Even with that, the NPCs are cackling cartoon villains intentionally tormenting civilians throughout the area, so it's still a complete farce.
tl;dr fuck every single aspect of the faction war writing
Oh, and when Zalazane's defeated earlier with Vol'jin's Glave, Zal says this.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
If by horde players you mean they play alliance and in many cases just never did horde side at all. Then yes that is my experience. It doesn't really change my point though.
It's all good fun when alliance does some war crimes. They're the good guys so it's not evil. The writing and players reactions seems to reflect that.