Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[WoW] Battle for Azeroth has landed!

RoeRoe Registered User regular
edited August 2018 in MMO Extravaganza
https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F640756%2F2c422612-f3ea-43db-8301-63281ecf206c.jpg

Battle for Azeroth is World of Warcraft's Seventh expansion, following Legion.

Race to level 120 in two new islands that are separate for both the Horde and the Alliance.

The first Island is the Alliance's Kul Tiras, Birthplace of Jaina Proudmoore.
BKJ2XYS3YIXF1509567053378.jpg

The second island is the home of the Zandalar tribe,
1WFCSVPL0ZM81509567058126.jpg


Aquire new items that grant increased power from minerals called Azureite. The dwarf Magni Bronzebeard entrusts you with a necklace and armor that will act like Artifact weapons did. These items will replace your Legion weapons, which will be replaced by normal ones through quests.

Unlock new Races by completing achievements, or gaining exalted with certain factions.

The allied races are for the alliance: Void Elves, Lightforged Dranei, Dark Iron Dwarves, and Kul Tiras humans.

2zyvhqa.jpg

The Horde races are: The Nightfallen, Highmountain Tauren, Mag Har Orcs, and the Zandalar Trolls.

2z659pd.jpg

Complete zone quest stories on your alts, Vanilla zones scale on level.

117snpy.jpg

Explore islands with your friends for loot. Islands randomize every time you visit, face new challenges every time.
82JRPLYD5CNM1509567052199.jpg

Fight against other players to create bases and lay siege against other player fortifications in the siege maps inspired by Warcarft RTS games.

Brand new PVP instancing. Players can join same faction player groups and PVP on that player's server. This ties into a new feature called 'War Mode', where players toggle PVP on in cities and fight against opposite faction players who are also flagged. PVPers gain 10% XP from quests and kills with this toggled on.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C637%3A358&composite-to=*,*%7C637%3A358&background-color=black


Dueler's Guild is a new PVP mode where players who are flagged in the city can take part in duels against other players in Dueler's Guild. Play until you are defeated for prizes daily by fighting through 3 players in a row, your cooldowns will not reset.


maxresdefault.jpg


Join social groups across server. Talk to players no matter the faction or server. Talk over the Bnet app in the game or not.


Battle for Azeroth has Launched!

Roe on
«134567101

Posts

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    But there is already a WoW thread.

  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A WOW THREAD

    -Bolvar, probably.

    drowning in the ever heaving waters of mother Earth's salty tiddy.
    EncBahamutZEROUrQuanLord88LindhtmBobbleSkeith
  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    Any PA Alliance guilds out there with active players?

    I know Shambler Milk is active, but they're Horde and I'd rather play an Alliance char because that's what I know.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    I would also be interested in this information.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    The Knights of Arcadia on dark iron are happy to take people I believe. I'm Dohaeris on there if you need a reference

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    It irritates me when mages like Khadgar and Jaina do the stuff they do in cutscenes.

    That stuff is not possible within the world. Except when Blizzard makes up new shit just to animate a cutscene.

    If the miracles they perform were possible, the world would be a much different place.

    Lucascraft on
    Donnicton
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Cutscene magic is the best magic. Ya gotta be an Archmage to do this stuff, kid.

    Bucketman
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    So, what happens if we try to enter the Undercity now ? I assume it's a Blight-filled wasteland ?

    Also, the cutscene
    where Sylvanas gives Blightcaller her bow and says, "You know what you need to do",
    I assume there is a payoff coming down the road ?

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Ultimately, none of this matters.

    The story of Warcraft is over. It ended with Sargeras.

    He was setup as the big bad way back in Warcraft 1, and he's dead now. The story is over. An RTS trilogy and an RPG, and now the story is over. Anything more is just a grab for cash on an ended series.


    Kinda like how Terminator ended with Terminator 2, and yet they keep making movies even though the story has been done for like 25 years.

    SteveRage
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    "You know what you need to do...hold this until some heroes beat you down endlessly like an undead pinata for a slim chance at looting it."

    Bucketman
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    I think he was just setting off the barrels.

    EnclaveofGnomesBigityKneelDhalphirPailryderBucketmanSkeithMazzyx
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Ultimately, none of this matters.

    The story of Warcraft is over. It ended with Sargeras.

    He was setup as the big bad way back in Warcraft 1, and he's dead now. The story is over. An RTS trilogy and an RPG, and now the story is over. Anything more is just a grab for cash on an ended series.


    Kinda like how Terminator ended with Terminator 2, and yet they keep making movies even though the story has been done for like 25 years.

    Nah, I like the new characters that have been cropping up and want to know their stories too. I like Anduin, I like Saurfang, I like this world I've spent so much time in. There are more, good, stories they can tell. It remains to be seen if they'll actually pull that off.

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
    EncDarkMecha
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Last I checked Sargeras isn't dead, he was taken away by his Titan buddies.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    EnclaveofGnomesNobodyNyhtKruiteBucketman
  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    The Knights of Arcadia on dark iron are happy to take people I believe. I'm Dohaeris on there if you need a reference

    Are you guys active? I used to play on DI back in the the day when Gabe and Tycho played, but stopped when the guilds started to fall apart from lack of people playing. I logged back in a few years ago and there was no one on in any of the PA channels.

  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    I think he was just setting off the barrels.

    That was my take as well. He hands it back to her afterwards. Baines standing there as well so he didn't go off to kill him.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    anyway one of sylvanas' lines burrowed into my skull and it wouldn't let me go until i made this very high quality image

    9NbgWHB.jpg

    7UVunkN.jpg
    DonnictonStyrofoam Sammich3clipseEncDhalphirBucketmanBobbleE.Coyote
  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    The alliance are too good to initiate any conflict ever. So of course she was wrong there.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Cutscene magic is the best magic. Ya gotta be an Archmage to do this stuff, kid.

    I literally am an archmage though! I've got the title and everything!

    BahamutZERO.gif
    FairchildBigityDarkMecha
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Ultimately, none of this matters.

    The story of Warcraft is over. It ended with Sargeras.

    He was setup as the big bad way back in Warcraft 1, and he's dead now. The story is over. An RTS trilogy and an RPG, and now the story is over. Anything more is just a grab for cash on an ended series.


    Kinda like how Terminator ended with Terminator 2, and yet they keep making movies even though the story has been done for like 25 years.

    He's totally not dead, he's imprisoned in his chair on the titans' throne ship thing, with Illidan and the other titans, off in space somewhere. And there's strong hints this isn't the end of his plans. The Sargeras 2: Electric Boogaloo hook is there.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    calling it now: the ending of the azshara fight is jaina Ursuling that shit with her ship

    7UVunkN.jpg
    soylenthBucketman
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    SeñorAmor wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    The Knights of Arcadia on dark iron are happy to take people I believe. I'm Dohaeris on there if you need a reference

    Are you guys active? I used to play on DI back in the the day when Gabe and Tycho played, but stopped when the guilds started to fall apart from lack of people playing. I logged back in a few years ago and there was no one on in any of the PA channels.

    It comes and goes, more active when expansions are dropping. 3-4 months ago it was pretty dead but there's still quite a few people in the guild that are actively playing here and there.

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I'm probably just being unnecessarily grumpy here, since I pretty much don't like anything about BfA at this point...

    But I don't like the retcon of Jaina's imagery. She's not the ship mage. She hasn't been the ship mage. And this whole thing calling her the "Daughter of the Sea" and having her sail in with a giant magic boat is just all wrong. That is not who Jaina is. She is a member of the Kirin Tor and she wears a pant suit, and boats have never been a part of who she is.

    And I'm not talking about her being from Kul Tiras. That is established. But she's never used the iconography of her people. Not once. And now out of the blue they have changed her entire image and it's super annoying. Especially since right now, in pre-patch week 3 the Kul'Tirans are not even a part of the story. Not yet.



    It would make sense to have her start being the Boat Mage after a reunion with her mother and homeland. But they are doing it in the wrong order.

    hippofantBigityLD50KruiteShadowhope
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    i like the idea of her going "i want to drop a fuckin' boat on the horde where's the biggest boat i can find"

    7UVunkN.jpg
    soylenthDhalphirBucketmanBobbleSorcha RavenlockImperfectcursedkingSmrtnikBlackDragon480DarkMecha
  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    I've disliked the story since wrath. Feel like it's only gotten interesting enough to talk about recently.

    Shadowhope
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    I like the boat mage stuff. It's Jaina embracing her father's ideals and regretting her decisions to keep giving the horde chance after chance. Hearing that the Kul'tirans have a disparaging song about her is cool and gives us a glimpse at them before we get in there.

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
    EnccptruggedAlexandierBucketmanBobbleSkeithcursedkingSmrtnikMazzyxbrynhrtmnDarkMecha
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I've disliked the story since wrath. Feel like it's only gotten interesting enough to talk about recently.

    I'll admit, as much as I've been shitting on the writing, it's been a blast talking/arguing with y'all about lore and shit. :heartbeat:

    CaedwyrEnclaveofGnomesBahamutZEROLD50soylenthEncBucketmanhtmDarkMecha
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So, since I don’t really care for either of the other two first tier balance druid talents, is there a way to cut off force of nature taunt, or is it one of those things that doesn’t really matter much at this point anyway?

  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I'm probably just being unnecessarily grumpy here, since I pretty much don't like anything about BfA at this point...

    But I don't like the retcon of Jaina's imagery. She's not the ship mage. She hasn't been the ship mage. And this whole thing calling her the "Daughter of the Sea" and having her sail in with a giant magic boat is just all wrong. That is not who Jaina is. She is a member of the Kirin Tor and she wears a pant suit, and boats have never been a part of who she is.

    And I'm not talking about her being from Kul Tiras. That is established. But she's never used the iconography of her people. Not once. And now out of the blue they have changed her entire image and it's super annoying. Especially since right now, in pre-patch week 3 the Kul'Tirans are not even a part of the story. Not yet.



    It would make sense to have her start being the Boat Mage after a reunion with her mother and homeland. But they are doing it in the wrong order.

    J'Elsa. Let it boat, let it boat...

    The blight never bothered me anyway.

    Seriously, so far BFA has been pretty stupid. From their treatment of Sylvanas to trying to retcon Jaina into the boatmage and turning Anduin into... whatever that was in those cutscenes (because it wasn't Anduin).

    Only saving grace is that supposedly there's a hint in the novel / novellas that
    Azurite apparently fucks with your head pretty hard, turning you into an exaggerated version of yourself... and both Anduin and Sylvanas handled Azurite.
    If so... ok, that makes more sense.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
    forty
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    SeñorAmor wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    The Knights of Arcadia on dark iron are happy to take people I believe. I'm Dohaeris on there if you need a reference

    Are you guys active? I used to play on DI back in the the day when Gabe and Tycho played, but stopped when the guilds started to fall apart from lack of people playing. I logged back in a few years ago and there was no one on in any of the PA channels.

    It comes and goes, more active when expansions are dropping. 3-4 months ago it was pretty dead but there's still quite a few people in the guild that are actively playing here and there.
    Yesterday I was popping onto and off all my characters on that server. There were still like 3 or so people in the old chat channels used for the guilds to cross-communicate but they weren't saying anything.

    Glad to hear there's people here still on Dark Iron though. If the gold comes through like I'm hoping it will, I may need to join up to use the guild vendor for some things.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    So, since I don’t really care for either of the other two first tier balance druid talents, is there a way to cut off force of nature taunt, or is it one of those things that doesn’t really matter much at this point anyway?

    If there's no pet ability bar showing up when you summon them you can't manage their abilities, but dungeon and raid bosses are immune to pet taunts so it's not an issue there. I'm not sure if it messes with tank aggro on trash though. That's been a talent forever so I would guess it doesn't do annoying things in groups but I don't actually know.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    If I were the PR team at Blizz, I would be shitting a brick over what the writing team is doing. As mentioned earlier, the on the rails story telling didn't run into issues for most players because neither faction was the big bad or the heroic faction, they both had their good and bad. Players got to play mostly the hero. I don't think aspects of MoP weren't well received because players were forced to be bad guys. The thing is with how the game had been presented, that was forcing players to play their characters in situations where the characters didn't behave as they should. Most people rolled the hero that was misunderstood by the asshole bigots, they didn't roll an asshole villain.

    Actually, if they try the whole making one faction evil, I really do see that putting them in a legal gray area. Players would be able to legitimately argue that Blizz had deceived them after they spend years and hundreds of dollars on the game before getting told they didn't get what they paid for. Now whether anyone tries it in court and whether the courts agree this is bait in switch is another thing. It is fucking terrible for their credibility, how can their customers trust them to not dick them over and pick a story that pretty much ruins the game because the writers are lazy. There just isn't a good pay off for going this route and it shows that the company doesn't have a good leadership either. The moment the writers proposed what we know, the leadership of the company should have shit canned it on the spot and told the writers to do a better job and fucking remember that it's too late to turn a faction into the evil faction and they can't exactly fuck over a faction either (it does annoy me that the ally dailies seem a touch easier than the horse ones, with having to kill less shit in dark shore). Hell, the game did just fine for over a decade without an evil player faction.

    The thing that pisses me off the most about this story direction. Is that the writers pissed away a golden opportunity to shake up the the dynamics in Azeroth because they are fucking lazy and stupid. Fuck the Horde vs Alliance conflict and the hard on that some have for faction vs faction nonsense. Order halls created a scenario where members of each faction worked with one another to tackle an issue their faction failed at. It was where they became leaders of a multinational faction. A more interesting story hook would have been having people from those order halls going back home and really criticizing how backwards it to continue the Alliance vs Horde conflict, while getting push back from elements within their own faction that feel an end to the conflict is a threat to their way of life or are unable to forgive and move on. So rather than a battle between the two factions, it ends up being tons of small skirmishes and power plays between people that want to reform things and those that want to continue the conflict. A literal battle for the heart and soul of each faction. Where some are pushing for a moving beyond the old conflicts that don't mesh with the current state of affairs, while others refuse to let go and forgive or are two invested in the old ways. Like we had the setup for an interesting direction to shake things up, but nope someone needed their fix of tired as evil red vs righteous blue drivel.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    So, since I don’t really care for either of the other two first tier balance druid talents, is there a way to cut off force of nature taunt, or is it one of those things that doesn’t really matter much at this point anyway?

    If there's no pet ability bar showing up when you summon them you can't manage their abilities, but dungeon and raid bosses are immune to pet taunts so it's not an issue there. I'm not sure if it messes with tank aggro on trash though. That's been a talent forever so I would guess it doesn't do annoying things in groups but I don't actually know.

    It totally does fuck tanks over on trash. It just hadn't been an issue until recently, because trash generally died so fast and wasn't dangerous. Now trash is a nightmare in some of the 30-60 dungeons and that talent can be really annoying.

    Edit: Oh, and it also kinda ends up not being good because the treants don't have anywhere near the health or defenses they need to survive a hit from an ogre in dire maul or whatever, so they end up dying as soon as they taunt something.

    LD50 on
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I get what people don't like about the major structure of it but ... I liked the battle for lordaeron? I still like that we're both down a city in a major status quo change. The cut scenes were sharp, jaina's so cool I might switch allegiance. I thought the moment where you burst out the front gates and find the alliance army and siege weapons waiting well crafted. Boat mage was an odd combo of hilarious and cool. But I do hope it's less garrosh 2.0 than it seems to be.

    Partway through the battle for undercity I was like, "stupid cat elves, what did we ever do to ... oh right. Okay."

    My undead rogue enthusiastically hosed the battlefield with blight. I as a person was horrified, but HE had a blast.

    Smrtnik
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Actually, if they try the whole making one faction evil, I really do see that putting them in a legal gray area.

    where do I sign up for my class action check

    BahamutZERO.gif
    Dhalphir
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    You know, it feels weird finally seeing the full Battle, after doing it tons of times in beta when it was unfinished and without cutscenes.
    I know there's references at the start where you're getting ready to head out to Kul'tiras where Jaina was talking about preparing her flagship, but I was just expecting it to be a normal boat. Now we've seen it, and OF COURSE IT WOULD BE THAT.

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Imagine if coming out of MoP, the Alliance and Horde had gone through the portal to alternate Azeroth, and then not separated once "trapped" on the other side. There could have been an entire expansion about working together and relaxing some of the old animosities. They could have still had some degree of competition, but making it a rivalry rather than flat out working from opposite sides. This could have allowed for some much needed character development (have Vol'jin, Anduin, and Mekatorque join the teams going through the portal, leave Varian, Genn, and Sylvanus back in Azeroth). You can have some stirrings of possible problems in the background if the writers really want to have some re-awakenings of old rivalries, but now in Legion and then Battle for Azeroth you put the players more in the role of fighting for peace against the old guard who can't let their old animosities go. Hell, they could even remember that the gnomes have a democracy and have Mekatorque lose out to another more warlike or irradiated gnome NPC (so Mekatorque heads off to contribute where he can with those who've supported him in the past). They can still even have the major events happen that are occurring now, but the Forsaken under Sylvanus (and possibly some other groups, maybe those warlike/irradiated gnomes) becomes a third faction.

    During Legion and WoD, take advantage of the closer ties between the sides to allow the other side see more of the internal politics and factions. The Alliance should become aware of the Undead faction seeking re-connection with the living families. The Horde, the irradiated gnome faction (or whatever side faction they decide would make sense throwing in with Sylvanus or be responsible for attrocities and able to take advantage of the situation). Calia Menethil could be introduced and take an active role in the Horde side stories attempting to reconnect the Undead with their families once the Legion crisis is over. During the Legion leveling, you can have all sorts of conflict and infighting like was presented in the game, but once the whole "secret legion spies/infiltrators" issues are worked out, at max level allow cross-faction grouping and raids here. Make battlegrounds more of a wargames type event. For an apocalyptic event, any hint of faction conflict once the double agent issue is sorted, really does not work and it could be very much a "together we are stronger" type deal. This does sow some potential seeds of distrust and even after the victory there could be additional legion infiltrators who are discovered stirring things up trying to get revenge. That can be an excuse for some of the actions the different NPCs take.

    The changes don't have to be massive, but there's all sorts of things that could be done to allow the same overall storyline to happen, but to change player's interactions with the story so former heroes don't have to become villains just because Blizzard writers decided to make one faction evil. I'm sure if someone spent more than 5 minutes thinking of the way it could have been written and told better, they'd come up with a much superior way of telling the same overall storyline.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    soylenth wrote: »
    I get what people don't like about the major structure of it but ... I liked the battle for lordaeron? I still like that we're both down a city in a major status quo change. The cut scenes were sharp, jaina's so cool I might switch allegiance. I thought the moment where you burst out the front gates and find the alliance army and siege weapons waiting well crafted. Boat mage was an odd combo of hilarious and cool. But I do hope it's less garrosh 2.0 than it seems to be.

    Partway through the battle for undercity I was like, "stupid cat elves, what did we ever do to ... oh right. Okay."

    My undead rogue enthusiastically hosed the battlefield with blight. I as a person was horrified, but HE had a blast.

    So, I have issues with the broader structure of the narrative being played out here, yes. The return to the faction was has not been done well. I won't repeat the gripes since we've gone over them repeatedly already.

    The broad structure of the Battle for Lordaeron is, actually, I think fine. Once you accept the broader premise of the faction war resuming, then sure, the skeleton of this is good shit. But the details of it are pretty atrocious: (Note: I've only done Horde side so correct me if the Alliance side changes some details up.)
    So the Alliance's plan is just a full frontal assault on Lordaeron, plus some SI:7 infiltration nonsense which I still haven't really parsed yet. Okay. Well sure whatever. Not the best plan but tenable.

    Annnd then a random azerite war machine comes out of nowhere? We've never been introduced to it nor even the idea of it, but suddenly we have to attack/defend it. It's literally a McGuffin right smackdab in the middle of the battlefield.

    Which, as Horde, we do. But then Anduin just fucking cutscenes onto the machine and destroys it with a sword - even though I thought he was a priest? - completely invalidating everything the players just did. So, uh cool, thanks for making players feel irrelevant.

    But the Horde is fine! Sylvanas has a backup plan! Unleash a lot of blight everywhere! Now how this is done is already a little problematic, as we've argued/tried to figure out together what the fuck this blight shit actually is - again, not described in game at all, but sure, Hordies strap on gas masks and start shooting green goop everywhere. Annnd then Jaina comes in with her fucking magic boat, undoes all of that, AND takes down the walls to Lordaeron.

    So the Horde has to retreat. Saurfang is pissy and stomps off about how dishonourable Sylvanas is being, and it's like... dude, did you not fucking see the giant magic ship shooting lasers at us? Is that honourable? Or is it cuz we're looking up at her when we get blasted in the face with a laser cannon instead of looking away, that's how honour works? And did you not see the part where we were LOSING? Wtf dude?

    But fine, Sylvanas has plans within plans. It's a bait and trap scenario. The Horde has the Alliance where they want them. Except BAM, Alleria shows up all of a sudden, and... I dunno, somehow that changes everything? And also I guess it's always just been possible to teleport Gnomish armies right into the middle of Undercity? Which makes the full frontal assault plan seem pretty stupid in comparison, eh?

    So so far, Anduin's had his cool moment, Jaina's had her cool moment, Alleria and Mekketorque, of all people, have had their moment. Sylvanas finally gets her cool moment, reminding everybody she still has banshee powers and blowing up Lordaeron as a giant fuck you. Everybody else significant on the Horde has more or less been a useless twit. Baine's big thing is walking around asking, "Hey, what's going on? Won't somebody fill me in?" Lor'themar, I don't think Lor'themar even does anything. Nathanos, who I don't even like, gets to hold on to Sylvanas' bow. Seriously.

    So to sum up:
    1. There are three bullshit Alliance deus ex machinas, each time invalidating directly invalidating what the Horde players are doing. (Or twice, at least. Alleria popping up was just while the Horde players were running away.)
    2. None of these deus ex machinas were planned by the Alliance. Sylvanas has contingency plan upon contingency plan, but she and the Horde are basically defeated by critical percentile dice rolls on random event checks.
    3. The Alliance are written like a buncha idiots. Derp, frontal asasult. Derp, can't believe the Horde have war machines. Derp, can't believe Sylvanas would use the blight. Derp, let's just chase the Horde right into the city.
    4. All the prominent Horde characters are written like dopes, other than Sylvanas. Which is extra nonsensical, since last week we were all talking about how Sylvanas seemed to be losing her mind, but the Horde idiocy flu seems to be contagious.
    5. Seriously Saurfang? For a grizzled old warrior, he seems remarkably naive about warfare. I kinda want to sit him down and have the Ezri-Worf talk with him now.

    The Horde defeat should have come from something more than just, "Oh hey, looks like we just got here in time!" x2. Give me something Night Elf hippogryph riders swooping in, or Druids of the Claw stealthing in, as was ALWAYS the plan - plus it'd give the Night Elves a chance to show off/fight back - or lampshade it and tell me that Alleria was always going to come in at a contingency or they knew Jaina was coming or something. Give the Horde's iconic leaders something to do, even in a losing cause (as iconic as Baine and Lor'themar are, anyways). Give Saurfang a meatier reason to bail rather than friendly fire in the face of total defeat.

    (I guess he doesn't even bail, but is committing suicide by pointless last stand? This is not making me like Saurfang more, despite the fact that I'm supposed to be liking Saurfang. Vol'jin, at least, rose up and tried to overthrow Garrosh. Saurfang's plan is to say, screw it, screw the Horde, good luck y'all with Sylvanas? This is the guy who I'm supposed to think is the embodiment of the Horde spirit? Is resilience not a foundational brick of the Horde's very existence?)

    All this makes me think more fondly about Legion and how the player was placed relative to the faction leaders. The various faction leaders did not just completely invalidate shit that you did. They weren't 9000x more powerful than you were. You fought side by side with them. Having Illidan and Velen with you in Tomb and Antorus, "helping" out, but not, you know, striking down Varimathas themselves or whatever strikes me now as real smart and real smooth, compared to how BFA seems to be handling this.

    hippofant on
    EnclaveofGnomesLucascraftEvermourn
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    seemed like they were too attached to the siege of lordaeron as a multi-phase scenario event, and that's leading to a lot of your problems IMO

    gameplay skeleton first, plot second

    (a critique i would argue is maybe applicable to the entirety of the faction war storyline)

    7UVunkN.jpg
    soylenthSmrtnik
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    seemed like they were too attached to the siege of lordaeron as a multi-phase scenario event, and that's leading to a lot of your problems IMO

    gameplay skeleton first, plot second

    (a critique i would argue is maybe applicable to the entirety of the faction war storyline)

    I edited a bit to try and make things clearer. Hopefully it's not too jumbled still.

    From my perspective, I'd say I think they had the key moments set in stone, but didn't actually know what they wanted to do with this scenario. They wanted several cool moments to happen, one/two important plot events to happen, and then just drew the straightest possible line between those few plot points to connect them together. I imagine, actually, that this is how priorities are often ordered, I guess, but the execution on the connecting bits, which are actually the most important parts - not the rad movie trailer moments - is just atrocious. It's just... inside-out narrative construction, Bay-esque "plot driven by climaxes" rather than "climaxes derived from the plot."

    I am, right now, mentally comparing it to the Broken Shore scenario, and ... man, honestly, I can't think of any complaints I have about the Broken Shore scenario. That was a rad scenario. Maybe I'm just biased right now by being so close to this scenario, but I don't have any of these problems with the Broken Shore scenario. Well, the Alliance was also dumb in that scenario, but so were the Horde, and that was an important point in the broader narrative, that they were completely unprepared for what they actually found and so they were defeated, which is fair enough. I guess that the Horde was make to look like useless twits again too, but 1) that was also part of the point kinda, and 2) at least only Varian had his awesome moment (in defeat, too) so the Horde didn't look as egregiously useless, in comparison.

    hippofant on
«134567101
This discussion has been closed.