Add me to the "had no idea it was a slur" camp. Not a part of my regular language, so I feel confident I've not offended anyone with it... I hope.
Unless it is repeated or can be proven there was racist intent, I hope we can just chalk this up to truly innocent ignorance. Hopefully someone learned something just as many of are here. If it happens again though...
Really makes me think, how many other horrible things has my privilege (White male) made me ignorant of. Gonna guess... way too much. Likely way, way too much. But I have to keep learning. Never want my ignorance to be willful!
This world needs a new philosophy. No more, "Could be worse..." I say SHOULD BE BETTER!
I'm not sure I'd classify the word as an outright slur. It's more that it's an outmoded term that was used in terrible historical circumstances. As a white person, I would never use it to describe somebody unless they'd told me it's how they self-identify, because people can consider it very insulting due to those historical circumstances. It's also not necessarily a reliable way to describe somebody who is black/white mixed race, as historically in NA and currently in other parts of the world it's used for different kinds of "mixes." Not to mention that in North America, people with a black parent and a white parent may identify as mixed or simply as Black (or occasionally as white). I just don't see why there'd be a good reason to use the term here.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
Is there a proper term for a mixed half-black & half-wife person? I understand that Mulatto is not it. Unless there is a better word they could have used that I don't know about, someone on the Internet was bound to get mad about something. If they said "Black" someone would get mad, if they said "Caucasian" someone would get mad. If they said "Half-[insert colour here]" someone would get mad. Skin colour is an important descriptor in a missing persons report and I think "mixed race" is too open to interpretation. This was a no-win.
Also, kind of beside the point. Instead of arguing about the descriptor, how about we find the kid? That's the important part.
Yeah no, you're literally making wild extremes to justify someone using a racist term.
Is there a proper term for a mixed half-black & half-wife person? I understand that Mulatto is not it. Unless there is a better word they could have used that I don't know about, someone on the Internet was bound to get mad about something. If they said "Black" someone would get mad, if they said "Caucasian" someone would get mad. If they said "Half-[insert colour here]" someone would get mad. Skin colour is an important descriptor in a missing persons report and I think "mixed race" is too open to interpretation. This was a no-win.
Also, kind of beside the point. Instead of arguing about the descriptor, how about we find the kid? That's the important part.
Yeah no, you're literally making wild extremes to justify someone using a racist term.
I'm not justifying the use of mulatto it at all. I was saying that nobody seems to know the proper way to say it. So no matter what term was used it would have made somebody on the internet cranky. Mulatto is a bad choice. I don't know what the right term is, or if there even is one.
They've literally given a much more appropriate example a few posts back. You're doing the "both sides" argument about shitty racist language.
This is a bit extreme. While I have no doubt that "mulatto" can cause offense, it is by no means a universally known racist term (especially in Canada) and I have no doubt that the context in which it was used (the Edmonton alert) was a genuine attempt to simply describe a missing girl.
He was literally saying there was no better term because people would get upset if they used terms like "black" or "Caucasian". I don't think it's extreme at all to call that nonsense out.
They've literally given a much more appropriate example a few posts back. You're doing the "both sides" argument about shitty racist language.
If you are trying to pick a fight, look somewhere else please.
Black/White mixed race is a much better way to say it. But it was a forumer who wrote that, not the Edmonton authorities. And it was posted after my comment, which shows that some people here are better with words than I.
He was literally saying there was no better term because people would get upset if they used terms like "black" or "Caucasian". I don't think it's extreme at all to call that nonsense out.
No. Those were separate points. 1) That there is no better term. And 2) Using only one half as a descriptor of a mixed person would make someone upset.
Yes I am well aware it was after your post, it was howevre before mine and I directly referenced it. I have no idea what your point is if you think that somehow changes what you said. You literally won't stop saying there was no better option, even though someone posted one very shortly afterward.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but I'm awfully tired of this whole "Other people would be offended anyway, so the racist term is fine" style of nonsense people are slinging out these days to defend not being creative enough to come up with a non racist statement. If you want to double down on it rather than going "Yeah he's right, my bad" that's on you, not me.
Yes I am well aware it was after your post, it was howevre before mine and I directly referenced it. I have no idea what your point is if you think that somehow changes what you said. You literally won't stop saying there was no better option, even though someone posted one very shortly afterward.
There are better options, which we've seen, but I've been saying that there not a better term/word/label. A distinction that is there, but easy to miss.
There is no equivalent label to Caucasian/Hispanic/Asian/Etc. that apples to a mixed person. Mulatto is a label that does apply to a specific variety of mixed person, but it is a racist one and is not acceptable.
So Scheer has started airing ads on Space to humanize himself and get his name out. We're a year away from the election. It annoys me.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
So Scheer has started airing ads on Space to humanize himself and get his name out. We're a year away from the election. It annoys me.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
Ugh.. we need to have restrictions on campaigning, 6 months?
1 month. Top. The rest of the time should be spent on governing.
It's not as if the opposition does not get to make speeches to inform the population that they are opposed to whatever the government is doing between elections.
Restrictions would be nice. But since they are either nonexistant or not being enforced, Liberals need to start advertising. You can't reverse four years of trashing and one year of advertising with one month of campaigning.
Restrictions would be nice. But since they are either nonexistant or not being enforced, Liberals need to start advertising. You can't reverse four years of trashing and one year of advertising with one month of campaigning.
Restrictions would be nice. But since they are either nonexistant or not being enforced, Liberals need to start advertising. You can't reverse four years of trashing and one year of advertising with one month of campaigning.
Worked for 'em last time.
Last time Trudeau was only leader of the Liberals for 2 years, and while the MSM certainly went to town ridiculing him they had little to grab on to, plus the population was just sick and tired of Harper. None of that will be true in 2019.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Restrictions would be nice. But since they are either nonexistant or not being enforced, Liberals need to start advertising. You can't reverse four years of trashing and one year of advertising with one month of campaigning.
Worked for 'em last time.
Last time Trudeau was only leader of the Liberals for 2 years, and while the MSM certainly went to town ridiculing him they had little to grab on to, plus the population was just sick and tired of Harper. None of that will be true in 2019.
I'd like to think we'll all still be quite sick and tired of Harper, though agree that it won't exactly impact anything this time. :P Come on minority government.
Restrictions would be nice. But since they are either nonexistant or not being enforced, Liberals need to start advertising. You can't reverse four years of trashing and one year of advertising with one month of campaigning.
Worked for 'em last time.
Last time Trudeau was only leader of the Liberals for 2 years, and while the MSM certainly went to town ridiculing him they had little to grab on to, plus the population was just sick and tired of Harper. None of that will be true in 2019.
I'd like to think we'll all still be quite sick and tired of Harper, though agree that it won't exactly impact anything this time. :P Come on minority government.
Nostalgia and amnesia have already kicked in. Not that it needed much - the MSM gave him a free pass on most of the shit he did, so most people are not aware that, say, he ran the biggest deficit in Canadian history, created the Phoenix fiasco, "balanced" the budget by delaying necessary spending items, picked a personal fight with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or appointed a wife-beating strip club manager as Senator.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
So Scheer has started airing ads on Space to humanize himself and get his name out. We're a year away from the election. It annoys me.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
Left politics still hasn't caught up to the game, it's kind of baffling to be honest. Like, conservatives figured out permanent campaign mode ages ago and liberals in many countries just kind of twiddle about and wait until voters get tired of conservatives. It's really quite frustrating. The rules are being constantly redefined by the right and the left always seems to be 10 steps behind, strategically. It seems like there's often a fair bit of focus on door to door or grass roots kind of campaigning on the left, and of course that's important, but this isn't the era where that can be a primary strategy for any politics.
I kind of feel that at this point the left needs a fake news arm of their own to counteract what's going on with the right. I think politicians on the left still want to believe that people are good natured and can be convinced of good things, when in reality a significant portion of voters are probably mind numbingly ignorant and can really only be manipulated or steered in certain directions at this point.
So Scheer has started airing ads on Space to humanize himself and get his name out. We're a year away from the election. It annoys me.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
Left politics still hasn't caught up to the game, it's kind of baffling to be honest. Like, conservatives figured out permanent campaign mode ages ago and liberals in many countries just kind of twiddle about and wait until voters get tired of conservatives. It's really quite frustrating. The rules are being constantly redefined by the right and the left always seems to be 10 steps behind, strategically. It seems like there's often a fair bit of focus on door to door or grass roots kind of campaigning on the left, and of course that's important, but this isn't the era where that can be a primary strategy for any politics.
I kind of feel that at this point the left needs a fake news arm of their own to counteract what's going on with the right. I think politicians on the left still want to believe that people are good natured and can be convinced of good things, when in reality a significant portion of voters are probably mind numbingly ignorant and can really only be manipulated or steered in certain directions at this point.
The left needs to get fierce.
No. For one thing it's not a level that should be stooped to, and for another it tends to just give conservative types more grounds to push the envelope further on whatever their next bullshit move is.
So Scheer has started airing ads on Space to humanize himself and get his name out. We're a year away from the election. It annoys me.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
Left politics still hasn't caught up to the game, it's kind of baffling to be honest. Like, conservatives figured out permanent campaign mode ages ago and liberals in many countries just kind of twiddle about and wait until voters get tired of conservatives. It's really quite frustrating. The rules are being constantly redefined by the right and the left always seems to be 10 steps behind, strategically. It seems like there's often a fair bit of focus on door to door or grass roots kind of campaigning on the left, and of course that's important, but this isn't the era where that can be a primary strategy for any politics.
I kind of feel that at this point the left needs a fake news arm of their own to counteract what's going on with the right. I think politicians on the left still want to believe that people are good natured and can be convinced of good things, when in reality a significant portion of voters are probably mind numbingly ignorant and can really only be manipulated or steered in certain directions at this point.
The left needs to get fierce.
No. For one thing it's not a level that should be stooped to, and for another it tends to just give conservative types more grounds to push the envelope further on whatever their next bullshit move is.
I guess I just can't think of how we can fight this stuff. Like, the right is organized and savvy with the tech being used to spread fake news and all we seem to have is people taking it on themselves to counteract misinformation where they can. It feels like plugging a dam with your fingers or something, at times. If the left shouldn't be getting into the fake news, then at the very least some kind of organized effort to fight it that matches what the right is doing to spread lies.
I don't think it's completely fair to paint that problem as a right/left kind of thing. The way you combat fear mongering and populist politics is through education. What we really need is an education system that has some degree of a focus on politics/democracy all the way through Vs the one elective class you might be able to take on poli-sci in your senior year in highschool.
The answer is definitely not to pile more misinformation on top of what's already out there. All that would do is further obfuscate any sort of "truth" out there.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I don't think it's completely fair to paint that problem as a right/left kind of thing. The way you combat fear mongering and populist politics is through education. What we really need is an education system that has some degree of a focus on politics/democracy all the way through Vs the one elective class you might be able to take on poli-sci in your senior year in highschool.
The answer is definitely not to pile more misinformation on top of what's already out there. All that would do is further obfuscate any sort of "truth" out there.
While I agree with and support this, the fact that we can't get a consistent sex-ed program or fully depart from creationism makes me skeptical that we could put together a fair generalized curriculum surrounding politics ... >_<
I think that's a false equivalency. As a nation we are bought in on democracy so it behooves us as citizens to know how the democratic process works. In short, the country is in 100% agreement that we should be a democracy.
While I personally think the consternation around sex-ed is stupid and extraordinarily dated it does tie back to people's personal beliefs - which is what drives the debate around the topic. Politics is something wholly different (not to say there aren't politics around sex-ed but I'm talking about capital P politics in the broad sense).
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'm not going to say you're wrong because I don't know that you are, and I happily would be. I was strictly looking at this from the perspective of "early school being a lot of facts and much less critical thinking". But that's something else that should be re-evaluated at some point, and is partly to blame for why we are where we are with fake news (to bring this a bit full circle).
I think that's a false equivalency. As a nation we are bought in on democracy so it behooves us as citizens to know how the democratic process works. In short, the country is in 100% agreement that we should be a democracy.
You need to talk to someone in the right. They are not in "100% agreement that we should be a democracy." At least, not insofar that it involves people on the left having voting rights and winning elections. My alt-right brother for instance sees nothing wrong in Russia meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump, and calls Republicans' efforts at disenfranchisement of left-wing minorities "self-defence".
I think that's a false equivalency. As a nation we are bought in on democracy so it behooves us as citizens to know how the democratic process works. In short, the country is in 100% agreement that we should be a democracy.
You need to talk to someone in the right. They are not in "100% agreement that we should be a democracy." At least, not insofar that it involves people on the left having voting rights and winning elections. My alt-right brother for instance sees nothing wrong in Russia meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump, and calls Republicans' efforts at disenfranchisement of left-wing minorities "self-defence".
Yeah. Basically the most important thing people need to realise is that the right is not another political movement, they are radical reactionaries who don't believe in democracy or the political system, but only in being able to wield power to the advantage of their in-group. Rules and norms and laws and values are irrelevant to them.
That kind of misses the point though doesn't it? Regardless of your brother's opinions or those of some of those on the right, the nation on the whole is still democratic. If we decided to introduce some level of political science into the education curriculum I can't see any group having grounds to stand against that.
And if you think you'll get buy in to that idea if it doesn't involve reasons why brown people and immigrants shouldn't be allowed to vote I have a bridge to sell you.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I think that's a false equivalency. As a nation we are bought in on democracy so it behooves us as citizens to know how the democratic process works. In short, the country is in 100% agreement that we should be a democracy.
You need to talk to someone in the right. They are not in "100% agreement that we should be a democracy." At least, not insofar that it involves people on the left having voting rights and winning elections. My alt-right brother for instance sees nothing wrong in Russia meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump, and calls Republicans' efforts at disenfranchisement of left-wing minorities "self-defence".
Maybe you should also talk to more people on the 'right' than just your brother.
I have lots of conservative relatives, being from Alberta and all, and few of them would agree with your brother.
I am absolutely aware of the Conservative party swinging hard right, but lets not let the language of the fascists influence our own. We don't fix what's happening by declaring anyone not with us is against us.
Yeah, I don't get the conflation of conservative politics with alt-right politics - or at least the unwillingness by some to separate the two. I mean, I understand the argument people make but it's honestly quite stupid.
Not to mention, when I'm talking about education I'm literally talking about educating youths wrt how the democratic process works. It can be completely politically agnostic.
I don't think it's completely fair to paint that problem as a right/left kind of thing. The way you combat fear mongering and populist politics is through education. What we really need is an education system that has some degree of a focus on politics/democracy all the way through Vs the one elective class you might be able to take on poli-sci in your senior year in highschool.
The answer is definitely not to pile more misinformation on top of what's already out there. All that would do is further obfuscate any sort of "truth" out there.
In the US the right controls education in half the country so the fear mongering and propaganda is built straight into the education system.
Its a democratic country, so the populists get to vote on what they want to put in the schools too.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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Unless it is repeated or can be proven there was racist intent, I hope we can just chalk this up to truly innocent ignorance. Hopefully someone learned something just as many of are here. If it happens again though...
Really makes me think, how many other horrible things has my privilege (White male) made me ignorant of. Gonna guess... way too much. Likely way, way too much. But I have to keep learning. Never want my ignorance to be willful!
Yeah no, you're literally making wild extremes to justify someone using a racist term.
I'm not justifying the use of mulatto it at all. I was saying that nobody seems to know the proper way to say it. So no matter what term was used it would have made somebody on the internet cranky. Mulatto is a bad choice. I don't know what the right term is, or if there even is one.
This is a bit extreme. While I have no doubt that "mulatto" can cause offense, it is by no means a universally known racist term (especially in Canada) and I have no doubt that the context in which it was used (the Edmonton alert) was a genuine attempt to simply describe a missing girl.
If you are trying to pick a fight, look somewhere else please.
Black/White mixed race is a much better way to say it. But it was a forumer who wrote that, not the Edmonton authorities. And it was posted after my comment, which shows that some people here are better with words than I.
No. Those were separate points. 1) That there is no better term. And 2) Using only one half as a descriptor of a mixed person would make someone upset.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but I'm awfully tired of this whole "Other people would be offended anyway, so the racist term is fine" style of nonsense people are slinging out these days to defend not being creative enough to come up with a non racist statement. If you want to double down on it rather than going "Yeah he's right, my bad" that's on you, not me.
There are better options, which we've seen, but I've been saying that there not a better term/word/label. A distinction that is there, but easy to miss.
There is no equivalent label to Caucasian/Hispanic/Asian/Etc. that apples to a mixed person. Mulatto is a label that does apply to a specific variety of mixed person, but it is a racist one and is not acceptable.
But it also makes me realize Trudeau and the Liberals are behind on their campaigning. Between the conservative MSM trashing him every day and the CPC taking a head start on advertising, Trudeau really doesn't have his head in the game. Good governance is unfortunately not as important as telling people you're good at governing, and Trudeau's been all but mute on that point since 2015.
The federal Liberals need to start playing the game if they want a chance to win.
Ugh.. we need to have restrictions on campaigning, 6 months?
It's not as if the opposition does not get to make speeches to inform the population that they are opposed to whatever the government is doing between elections.
Edit: Quick Google search comes up with some guidelines from the CRTC.
I never finish anyth
Worked for 'em last time.
Last time Trudeau was only leader of the Liberals for 2 years, and while the MSM certainly went to town ridiculing him they had little to grab on to, plus the population was just sick and tired of Harper. None of that will be true in 2019.
Come on minority government.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Nostalgia and amnesia have already kicked in. Not that it needed much - the MSM gave him a free pass on most of the shit he did, so most people are not aware that, say, he ran the biggest deficit in Canadian history, created the Phoenix fiasco, "balanced" the budget by delaying necessary spending items, picked a personal fight with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or appointed a wife-beating strip club manager as Senator.
GOTTA LOVE MEDIA CONSOLIDATION
But on the other hand, memes.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
I kind of feel that at this point the left needs a fake news arm of their own to counteract what's going on with the right. I think politicians on the left still want to believe that people are good natured and can be convinced of good things, when in reality a significant portion of voters are probably mind numbingly ignorant and can really only be manipulated or steered in certain directions at this point.
The left needs to get fierce.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The answer is definitely not to pile more misinformation on top of what's already out there. All that would do is further obfuscate any sort of "truth" out there.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
While I personally think the consternation around sex-ed is stupid and extraordinarily dated it does tie back to people's personal beliefs - which is what drives the debate around the topic. Politics is something wholly different (not to say there aren't politics around sex-ed but I'm talking about capital P politics in the broad sense).
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
You need to talk to someone in the right. They are not in "100% agreement that we should be a democracy." At least, not insofar that it involves people on the left having voting rights and winning elections. My alt-right brother for instance sees nothing wrong in Russia meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump, and calls Republicans' efforts at disenfranchisement of left-wing minorities "self-defence".
Yeah. Basically the most important thing people need to realise is that the right is not another political movement, they are radical reactionaries who don't believe in democracy or the political system, but only in being able to wield power to the advantage of their in-group. Rules and norms and laws and values are irrelevant to them.
Maybe you should also talk to more people on the 'right' than just your brother.
I have lots of conservative relatives, being from Alberta and all, and few of them would agree with your brother.
I am absolutely aware of the Conservative party swinging hard right, but lets not let the language of the fascists influence our own. We don't fix what's happening by declaring anyone not with us is against us.
Not to mention, when I'm talking about education I'm literally talking about educating youths wrt how the democratic process works. It can be completely politically agnostic.
In the US the right controls education in half the country so the fear mongering and propaganda is built straight into the education system.
Its a democratic country, so the populists get to vote on what they want to put in the schools too.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Specifically with regards to not informing youth on the political process.