Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”
Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.
Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.
Narrator: It still wasn’t.
For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.
"It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."
I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.
Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.
HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”
But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s
What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.
Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.
...
I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.
My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.
Again, you are trying to talk past the point just so you can yell. Find another strawman dude, I tire of this schtick.
Your problem remains a seeming inability to comprehend that it is objectively factual and I would say absolutely newsworthy to talk about how this will change the economic prospects of the country that is reporting on it. None of this prevents articles talking about the other horrible shit he's done and lo, you can find those being reported on by the CBC too. But it's an article called "What a far-right Bolsonaro presidency in Brazil means for Canadian business" and how his election will effect Canadian businesses is absolutely of interest to Canadians and so is worthy of being reported on.
We chuckle about this set of priorities every time we remember it was printed in the 30s.
Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”
Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.
Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.
Narrator: It still wasn’t.
For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.
"It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."
I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.
Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.
HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”
But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s
What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.
Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.
...
I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.
My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.
Again, you are trying to talk past the point just so you can yell. Find another strawman dude, I tire of this schtick.
Your problem remains a seeming inability to comprehend that it is objectively factual and I would say absolutely newsworthy to talk about how this will change the economic prospects of the country that is reporting on it. None of this prevents articles talking about the other horrible shit he's done and lo, you can find those being reported on by the CBC too. But it's an article called "What a far-right Bolsonaro presidency in Brazil means for Canadian business" and how his election will effect Canadian businesses is absolutely of interest to Canadians and so is worthy of being reported on.
We chuckle about this set of priorities every time we remember it was printed in the 30s.
It's not priorities since they are also reporting on other things about him.
The problem with this entire argument is y'all keep acting like this is the only article the CBC wrote about Brazil in the last 2 days.
Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”
Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.
Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.
Narrator: It still wasn’t.
For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.
"It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."
I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.
Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.
HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”
But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s
What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.
Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.
...
I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.
My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.
Again, you are trying to talk past the point just so you can yell. Find another strawman dude, I tire of this schtick.
Your problem remains a seeming inability to comprehend that it is objectively factual and I would say absolutely newsworthy to talk about how this will change the economic prospects of the country that is reporting on it. None of this prevents articles talking about the other horrible shit he's done and lo, you can find those being reported on by the CBC too. But it's an article called "What a far-right Bolsonaro presidency in Brazil means for Canadian business" and how his election will effect Canadian businesses is absolutely of interest to Canadians and so is worthy of being reported on.
They literally quoted a former official from my government who said this could be a good time for mining investment! And themselves talked about this potentially opening up further investment “opportunities”!
A journalistic entity is portraying fascists as acceptable business partners, Shryke.
Am I taking fucking crazy pills?!
Everyone is signing up to do business with Fascists, because in a capitalist economy, money matters more than morality and ethics.
If Hitler didn't invade Poland, the world would have gone on doing business with him too. If Hitler gotten into a war with the USSR before the capitalist West, they would have given him the support to win.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
Did the left in Brazil drop the ball? Arguably yes. But. BUT: One thing that every single left-winger should be taught from day one: "The fascists and their passive supporters/enablers are going to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But first, they're going to come up with a narrative where you are to blame"
Did the left in Brazil drop the ball? Arguably yes. But. BUT: One thing that every single left-winger should be taught from day one: "The fascists and their passive supporters/enablers are going to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But first, they're going to come up with a narrative where you are to blame"
It's easier to fight that narrative if you don't actively engage in laundering $10 billion and engage in corrupt practices over the course of multiple presidential terms.
Brazil's leftist government absolutely fucked up and their corruption is a major factor in the rise of fascism there. Most fascist movements start when the prior government dropped the ball, regardless of what its ideological bend was.
That said, its also being used as cover to persecute political opponents and this was almost certainly what got Bolsonaro into office.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
Did the left in Brazil drop the ball? Arguably yes. But. BUT: One thing that every single left-winger should be taught from day one: "The fascists and their passive supporters/enablers are going to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But first, they're going to come up with a narrative where you are to blame"
It's easier to fight that narrative if you don't actively engage in laundering $10 billion and engage in corrupt practices over the course of multiple presidential terms.
That still doesn't justify what was done to Lula or Dilma. If you show an ankle, the rightwing internet machine and their rapt audience will say you did a burlesque dance in front of a class of second graders. If you fart in an elevator, they will claim you threw a dirty bomb into a maternity ward.
Did the left in Brazil drop the ball? Arguably yes. But. BUT: One thing that every single left-winger should be taught from day one: "The fascists and their passive supporters/enablers are going to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But first, they're going to come up with a narrative where you are to blame"
It's easier to fight that narrative if you don't actively engage in laundering $10 billion and engage in corrupt practices over the course of multiple presidential terms.
That still doesn't justify what was done to Lula or Dilma. If you show an ankle, the rightwing internet machine and their rapt audience will say you did a burlesque dance in front of a class of second graders. If you fart in an elevator, they will claim you threw a dirty bomb into a maternity ward.
Being at the center of a huge criminal corruption scandal doesn't justify removal from office and jail time? That's an interesting take.
Each country has it's own political context, and projecting the US political context on every other country makes discussing the topic incredibly unproductive.
Like, Christ, Odebrecht did an inmense damage to South America and that's 100% on Lula and Dilma. Anything happening on the US won't change that.
Everyone in politics is corrupt to some degree. When you turn the fight against corruption into a crusade against a particular person or party, you hijack it for your own purposes.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Each country has it's own political context, and projecting the US political context on every other country makes discussing the topic incredibly unproductive.
Like, Christ, Odebrecht did an inmense damage to South America and that's 100% on Lula and Dilma. Anything happening on the US won't change that.
On the other hand, we've seen plenty of examples from a global perspective of nations choosing violent right wing ideologues as a cure to their ills then still deeply regretting it generations later. That's not just an American perspective.
Being at the center of a huge criminal corruption scandal doesn't justify removal from office and jail time? That's an interesting take.
I dunno, soon it might become really popular in other counties I could America.
Which brings me to the more exciting and realistic thought of how much fun seeing Trump and Bolsonaro get along will be. (Spoiler; this is said sarcastically)
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Being at the center of a huge criminal corruption scandal doesn't justify removal from office and jail time? That's an interesting take.
I dunno, soon it might become really popular in other counties I could America.
Which brings me to the more exciting and realistic thought of how much fun seeing Trump and Bolsonaro get along will be. (Spoiler; this is said sarcastically)
If it follows the traditional Trump pattern, they'll get along famously then have a huge falling out leading to constant sniping - see Edrogan, Duerte, and off and on again Kim. Putin's a whole different dynamic.
The thing is that Dilma's accusation for removal was fudging economic reports to make the economy look better than it was. Meanwhile, the current president, who was the VP at the time, and is not from the left, and who happens to be on tape facilitating bribes, has been left to preside.
Corruption in Brasil is not a left or right thing.
People are trying to explain why people voted for Bolsonaro with rational reasons and whatnot. But the truth is far uglier than that. There is no rational reason. People voted for him because they only care about money and murder. Fascists don't operate on rational basis. You think these people care about "corruption" and whatnot? No. They just want to murder people because they like killing people. It's that simple. You can't appeal to these people's sense of empathy or reason because they have none. The sooner people realize this, the sooner the path forward becomes clear.
Unless this election was a real outlier, in general a lot of people will follow a "vote the bums out" strategy in most elections and not really think too hard about it.
From anything I've read on studies of voter behaviour, voters are not generally rational as a whole and not even really policy-based.
People are trying to explain why people voted for Bolsonaro with rational reasons and whatnot. But the truth is far uglier than that. There is no rational reason. People voted for him because they only care about money and murder. Fascists don't operate on rational basis. You think these people care about "corruption" and whatnot? No. They just want to murder people because they like killing people. It's that simple. You can't appeal to these people's sense of empathy or reason because they have none. The sooner people realize this, the sooner the path forward becomes clear.
I don't think that is a fair thing to say. There are several factors that led to this outcome:
- Brazil is the most expensive country in Latin America, in part because roads in a terrible state and it's expensive to just transport anything because vehicles break down easily there.
- Odebrecht was, among other things, a construction company. Despite that, they wasted a ton of money bribing the head of state instead of using that money to fix the roads at least a little bit. The same thing could be said for dilma, why didn't she use some of that money to fix the roads? Remember the corruption scandal was HUGE.
- As a result, since the left wing leader from that group had to be removed from office, and another one is in jail for that same reason, it is possible they saw the person in the exact opposite side of the political spectrum as the lesser of two evils.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
People are trying to explain why people voted for Bolsonaro with rational reasons and whatnot. But the truth is far uglier than that. There is no rational reason. People voted for him because they only care about money and murder. Fascists don't operate on rational basis. You think these people care about "corruption" and whatnot? No. They just want to murder people because they like killing people. It's that simple. You can't appeal to these people's sense of empathy or reason because they have none. The sooner people realize this, the sooner the path forward becomes clear.
I don't think that is a fair thing to say. There are several factors that led to this outcome:
- Brazil is the most expensive country in Latin America, in part because roads in a terrible state and it's expensive to just transport anything because vehicles break down easily there.
- Odebrecht was, among other things, a construction company. Despite that, they wasted a ton of money bribing the head of state instead of using that money to fix the roads at least a little bit. The same thing could be said for dilma, why didn't she use some of that money to fix the roads? Remember the corruption scandal was HUGE.
- As a result, since the left wing leader from that group had to be removed from office, and another one is in jail for that same reason, it is possible they saw the person in the exact opposite side of the political spectrum as the lesser of two evils.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
The PT weren't angels, but the PMDB (and the alternating now-former ruling-party PSDB) had been adjacent to the levers of power for longer as a the king-maker of any governing coalition, and (as already mentioned) Michel Temer has suffered no fallout despite being on tape accepting bribes from business executives. In fact Congress voted that he not face criminal prosecution while he's carried out his potemkin administration's austerity.
If there is any "silver lining" (eugh) to the present electoral outcome, it's the fact that the "center"/centre-right utterly collapsed in the face of far-right fascism because they couldn't even fall back on a genuine grassroots base like the PT; leaving the latter as the only (and demonstrably unsuccessful) credible opposition to the far-right's rise from obscurity (Bolsonaro, for all his "outsider" talk, was a career congressional back-bencher, and in keeping with the global far right movement has facilitated nepotism in getting his children involved a la Trump and Le Pen).
Also, what keeps getting glossed over RE Lula and his (admittedly problematic) attempt to run while convicted; even with such a black mark he consistently lead Bolsonaro in polls conducted before the PT finally had to accept they couldn't run him on their ticket. The courts kept Lula from running because the courts would have rather taken their chances at letting a fascist campaign attempt to bring back military dictatorship.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
Haddad? Former mayor of Sao Paulo and milequetoast economics professor? Crazier? It's incredible the logical contortions people get themselves into for voting for Hitler.
Did the left in Brazil drop the ball? Arguably yes. But. BUT: One thing that every single left-winger should be taught from day one: "The fascists and their passive supporters/enablers are going to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But first, they're going to come up with a narrative where you are to blame"
It's easier to fight that narrative if you don't actively engage in laundering $10 billion and engage in corrupt practices over the course of multiple presidential terms.
That still doesn't justify what was done to Lula or Dilma. If you show an ankle, the rightwing internet machine and their rapt audience will say you did a burlesque dance in front of a class of second graders. If you fart in an elevator, they will claim you threw a dirty bomb into a maternity ward.
No, but it was still a major, major fuck up by the left in Brazil, and screwed over the country they are supposed to be protecting. It's important for leftist parties not give voters good reasons to be voted out, and being hilariously corrupt is an easy way to do that. This allowed an weakness for the right to position themselves for a legal take over. Bolsonaro would have likely started a civil war had he failed to gain the presidency but he didn't have to, and that's on Lula. That someone like Bolsonaro can gain such a following is worrying about the populace about Brazil, when it wasn't that long ago the country was in a brutal dictatorship.
So what? He's still corrupt as fuck and deserves to go to prison. If we are going on unrelated tangents, a party that kicked poor people out of their homes for goddamn soccer stadiums for the World Cup can't honestly say that they give a shit about the poor.
So what? He's still corrupt as fuck and deserves to go to prison. Oh, that meant that the PT loses elections? Too bad. If we are going on unrelated tangents, a party that kicked poor people out of their homes for goddamn soccer stadiums for the World Cup can't honestly say that they give a shit about the poor.
You'll note that I didn't condone his doing so, merely pointing out that the person "corrupt as fuck" would have soundly defeated the fascist, and adding to the argument that Boslonaro's win is using anti-corruption as a fig leaf to apologize voting for fascists. People on the left, and marginalized folks, have been murdered leading up to this election.
Like if this were a PT vs neoliberal austerian run-off, yeah sure, whatever, boo-hoo to the PT losing while trying to get their shit in order.
Meanwhile in reality this was the PT vs a self-avowed authoritarian who is going to continue endorsing extra-judicial murder. So 'scuse me if I'm not going to wring my hands like a NYT op-ed "writer" about folks in the PT being corrupt.
CptKemzik on
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Also, firing or marginalizing public employees, teachers, policemen and others who don't openly support Dear Leader is the very definition of corruption, but as we all know the first thing that dies is the dictionary.
That reminds me so much of Venezuela, except that was left wing and Brazil is now right wing.
Wasn't there a better, less crazy candidate for the right wing party? I mean, I've been looking up what drove Brazilians to elect this person, and I learned that the left pretty much had no chance of being elected, and that bolsonaro was not popular as much as people just didn't want a left wing candidate related to the previous presidents in power.
According to my research, there is a real infrastructural issue that caused high prices and other huge problems to Brazilians that the government could have easily handled had they not been busy accepting bribes from Odebrecht, which itself was an engineering and construction company, which doesn't help at all.
The PT never stood a chance, but that’s not the same thing as “the left”
Several other parties were well positioned prior to the election but no Lula had to fucking run. And when it was pointed out that he can’t fucking run the country from a prison cell, they just picked some guy off the street nobody knows nationally, making the election yet another referendum on the party itself.
Which they lost because the country was fucking sick of those already.
If the PT machine had backed any of the other left or center-left candidates this would not have happened
fuck gendered marketing
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Things that will not start to happen in Brazil now:
A return to the military dictatorship: as much as Bolsonaro and his superfans love talking it up, nobody else wants this, least of all the military. If they did it would have happened a lot fucking sooner.
Burning down the entire rainforest: Not going to happen. Current enforcement is mostly at the state level anyhow which is why you have situations like Amazonas actively pursuing sustainable logging and forest tourism, while in Rondonia everyone turns a blind eye when a rancher suddenly has another hundred acres where a forest used to be. I expect the latter to get worse with a lack of federal oversight and tacit presidential encouragement, but the former is unlikely to change
Roaming extrajudicial death squads: jokes on you, this was already happening!
People are trying to explain why people voted for Bolsonaro with rational reasons and whatnot. But the truth is far uglier than that. There is no rational reason. People voted for him because they only care about money and murder. Fascists don't operate on rational basis. You think these people care about "corruption" and whatnot? No. They just want to murder people because they like killing people. It's that simple. You can't appeal to these people's sense of empathy or reason because they have none. The sooner people realize this, the sooner the path forward becomes clear.
I don't think that is a fair thing to say. There are several factors that led to this outcome:
- Brazil is the most expensive country in Latin America, in part because roads in a terrible state and it's expensive to just transport anything because vehicles break down easily there.
- Odebrecht was, among other things, a construction company. Despite that, they wasted a ton of money bribing the head of state instead of using that money to fix the roads at least a little bit. The same thing could be said for dilma, why didn't she use some of that money to fix the roads? Remember the corruption scandal was HUGE.
- As a result, since the left wing leader from that group had to be removed from office, and another one is in jail for that same reason, it is possible they saw the person in the exact opposite side of the political spectrum as the lesser of two evils.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
That is truly horrifying. Sadly, those struggling with money will find it hard to be sympathetic toward minorities, because having the roads in a bad state isn't a minor inconvenience. It's going to affect the prices of everything, including food. That's why prices are high.
Please don't misinterpret what I said. I don't condone any of this and I don't think bolsonaro should be president, I'm just trying to explain the context from what I understood about it.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
Haddad? Former mayor of Sao Paulo and milequetoast economics professor? Crazier? It's incredible the logical contortions people get themselves into for voting for Hitler.
I'm just quoting what I read. Those aren't my words.
I should clarify that my remarks were not directed towards you at all @RockinX but just a general shouting into the void; the sentiment you shared is one I read about often regarding about this election.
Things that will not start to happen in Brazil now:
A return to the military dictatorship: as much as Bolsonaro and his superfans love talking it up, nobody else wants this, least of all the military. If they did it would have happened a lot fucking sooner.
I acknowledge that I don't have the lived experience to know the nuances of Brazil's political scene, but didn't an active-duty general make some
public remark about carrying out a coup should Lula have ended up conducting his jailbird campaign/administration? Or am I just mistaking this moment for one of the many retired flunkies that are going to populate the cabinet-in-waiting?
I acknowledge that I don't have the lived experience to know the nuances of Brazil's political scene, but didn't an active-duty general make some
public remark about carrying out a coup should Lula have ended up conducting his jailbird campaign/administration? Or am I just mistaking this moment for one of the many retired flunkies that are going to populate the cabinet-in-waiting?
I'm pretty sure Bolsonaro and/or his second said that to the press.
edit: ok that doesn't really contribute to the discourse. But at this point I just dunno what else to say about the current situation. It was not very long ago that Bolsonaro was a fringe lunatic who nobody in the sensible pundit class thought would get anywhere, which is ... such a trope of the populist fascist rise that we should probably teach it in journalism school. "Don't cover the clown!"
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We chuckle about this set of priorities every time we remember it was printed in the 30s.
It's not priorities since they are also reporting on other things about him.
The problem with this entire argument is y'all keep acting like this is the only article the CBC wrote about Brazil in the last 2 days.
Everyone is signing up to do business with Fascists, because in a capitalist economy, money matters more than morality and ethics.
If Hitler didn't invade Poland, the world would have gone on doing business with him too. If Hitler gotten into a war with the USSR before the capitalist West, they would have given him the support to win.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
It's easier to fight that narrative if you don't actively engage in laundering $10 billion and engage in corrupt practices over the course of multiple presidential terms.
That said, its also being used as cover to persecute political opponents and this was almost certainly what got Bolsonaro into office.
That still doesn't justify what was done to Lula or Dilma. If you show an ankle, the rightwing internet machine and their rapt audience will say you did a burlesque dance in front of a class of second graders. If you fart in an elevator, they will claim you threw a dirty bomb into a maternity ward.
Being at the center of a huge criminal corruption scandal doesn't justify removal from office and jail time? That's an interesting take.
Like, Christ, Odebrecht did an inmense damage to South America and that's 100% on Lula and Dilma. Anything happening on the US won't change that.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
On the other hand, we've seen plenty of examples from a global perspective of nations choosing violent right wing ideologues as a cure to their ills then still deeply regretting it generations later. That's not just an American perspective.
I dunno, soon it might become really popular in other counties I could America.
Which brings me to the more exciting and realistic thought of how much fun seeing Trump and Bolsonaro get along will be. (Spoiler; this is said sarcastically)
If it follows the traditional Trump pattern, they'll get along famously then have a huge falling out leading to constant sniping - see Edrogan, Duerte, and off and on again Kim. Putin's a whole different dynamic.
Corruption in Brasil is not a left or right thing.
Steam: pazython
From anything I've read on studies of voter behaviour, voters are not generally rational as a whole and not even really policy-based.
I don't think that is a fair thing to say. There are several factors that led to this outcome:
- Brazil is the most expensive country in Latin America, in part because roads in a terrible state and it's expensive to just transport anything because vehicles break down easily there.
- Odebrecht was, among other things, a construction company. Despite that, they wasted a ton of money bribing the head of state instead of using that money to fix the roads at least a little bit. The same thing could be said for dilma, why didn't she use some of that money to fix the roads? Remember the corruption scandal was HUGE.
- As a result, since the left wing leader from that group had to be removed from office, and another one is in jail for that same reason, it is possible they saw the person in the exact opposite side of the political spectrum as the lesser of two evils.
Now, I read the reasoning of a guy who lives there, and he said "bolsonaro is crazy, but the other guy is crazier." *Shrug*
I'm going to be quite honest. Reading about people shouting "Bolsonaro" as the murder a trans woman, I find myself extremely apathetic to the pressing matter of asphalt quality.
Steam: pazython
If there is any "silver lining" (eugh) to the present electoral outcome, it's the fact that the "center"/centre-right utterly collapsed in the face of far-right fascism because they couldn't even fall back on a genuine grassroots base like the PT; leaving the latter as the only (and demonstrably unsuccessful) credible opposition to the far-right's rise from obscurity (Bolsonaro, for all his "outsider" talk, was a career congressional back-bencher, and in keeping with the global far right movement has facilitated nepotism in getting his children involved a la Trump and Le Pen).
Also, what keeps getting glossed over RE Lula and his (admittedly problematic) attempt to run while convicted; even with such a black mark he consistently lead Bolsonaro in polls conducted before the PT finally had to accept they couldn't run him on their ticket. The courts kept Lula from running because the courts would have rather taken their chances at letting a fascist campaign attempt to bring back military dictatorship.
Haddad? Former mayor of Sao Paulo and milequetoast economics professor? Crazier? It's incredible the logical contortions people get themselves into for voting for Hitler.
No, but it was still a major, major fuck up by the left in Brazil, and screwed over the country they are supposed to be protecting. It's important for leftist parties not give voters good reasons to be voted out, and being hilariously corrupt is an easy way to do that. This allowed an weakness for the right to position themselves for a legal take over. Bolsonaro would have likely started a civil war had he failed to gain the presidency but he didn't have to, and that's on Lula. That someone like Bolsonaro can gain such a following is worrying about the populace about Brazil, when it wasn't that long ago the country was in a brutal dictatorship.
Exhibit 223581Ab for why Facebook needs regulatory oversight yesterday.
Brazil uses Whatsapp heavily.
So what? He's still corrupt as fuck and deserves to go to prison. If we are going on unrelated tangents, a party that kicked poor people out of their homes for goddamn soccer stadiums for the World Cup can't honestly say that they give a shit about the poor.
Owned by Facebook, isn't it?
Yeah, but more to the point you are going to have a hard time regulating a secure communication tool.
You'll note that I didn't condone his doing so, merely pointing out that the person "corrupt as fuck" would have soundly defeated the fascist, and adding to the argument that Boslonaro's win is using anti-corruption as a fig leaf to apologize voting for fascists. People on the left, and marginalized folks, have been murdered leading up to this election.
Like if this were a PT vs neoliberal austerian run-off, yeah sure, whatever, boo-hoo to the PT losing while trying to get their shit in order.
Meanwhile in reality this was the PT vs a self-avowed authoritarian who is going to continue endorsing extra-judicial murder. So 'scuse me if I'm not going to wring my hands like a NYT op-ed "writer" about folks in the PT being corrupt.
The PT never stood a chance, but that’s not the same thing as “the left”
Several other parties were well positioned prior to the election but no Lula had to fucking run. And when it was pointed out that he can’t fucking run the country from a prison cell, they just picked some guy off the street nobody knows nationally, making the election yet another referendum on the party itself.
Which they lost because the country was fucking sick of those already.
If the PT machine had backed any of the other left or center-left candidates this would not have happened
A return to the military dictatorship: as much as Bolsonaro and his superfans love talking it up, nobody else wants this, least of all the military. If they did it would have happened a lot fucking sooner.
Burning down the entire rainforest: Not going to happen. Current enforcement is mostly at the state level anyhow which is why you have situations like Amazonas actively pursuing sustainable logging and forest tourism, while in Rondonia everyone turns a blind eye when a rancher suddenly has another hundred acres where a forest used to be. I expect the latter to get worse with a lack of federal oversight and tacit presidential encouragement, but the former is unlikely to change
Roaming extrajudicial death squads: jokes on you, this was already happening!
That is truly horrifying. Sadly, those struggling with money will find it hard to be sympathetic toward minorities, because having the roads in a bad state isn't a minor inconvenience. It's going to affect the prices of everything, including food. That's why prices are high.
Please don't misinterpret what I said. I don't condone any of this and I don't think bolsonaro should be president, I'm just trying to explain the context from what I understood about it.
I'm just quoting what I read. Those aren't my words.
I acknowledge that I don't have the lived experience to know the nuances of Brazil's political scene, but didn't an active-duty general make some
public remark about carrying out a coup should Lula have ended up conducting his jailbird campaign/administration? Or am I just mistaking this moment for one of the many retired flunkies that are going to populate the cabinet-in-waiting?
I'm pretty sure Bolsonaro and/or his second said that to the press.
edit: ok that doesn't really contribute to the discourse. But at this point I just dunno what else to say about the current situation. It was not very long ago that Bolsonaro was a fringe lunatic who nobody in the sensible pundit class thought would get anywhere, which is ... such a trope of the populist fascist rise that we should probably teach it in journalism school. "Don't cover the clown!"
"Troika of tyranny" is some hot garbage.
Not like they don't deserve it, but still man, you can't be your own PR agent, you are bad at it.