It means “shouldn’t have been able to” but it appears like everyone is either pretending he can or is ignorant of the actual rules on the matter.
I think everyone is assuming Trump will just do it anyway and no one will stop him.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Laws only apply when someone is enforcing them.
Yes Trump might legally not have a leg to stand on doing this, but the people responsible in stopping him aren't exactly tripping over themselves to do it.
So.. Does everyone just ignore Whitaker then and treat Rosenstein as the acting AG?
What does "can't legally" mean here?
It looks like any illegally appointed official's actions have no force or effect under the FVRA of 1998
So basically if they do something, the government can be sued, and the result of that suit should be the nullification of any actions taken by the illegally appointed person.
So, let's say, the firing of Robert Mueller.
I'm gleaning this from an article written the last time Trump blatantly violated the FVRA
If Whitaker fires Mueller, Mueller sues the US Govt, wins, and is reappointed, then uses the firing of Sessions and Whitaker's firing of Mueller as evidence in the obstruction case?
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
It requires someone to enforce the law, so I wouldn't count on him being treated as illegal anyone soon.
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The short of it is the vacancies act would allow a non senate confirmed person to fill in if no other senate confirmed persons are available.
Rod Rosenstein is like... right there. So that’s breaking one part of it.
Also apparently this person has to be making the equivalent of a GS-15 salary which would be hilariously high for his position as Sessions chief of staff if he was actually making it.
I feel like the actual details of this are not going to get any media attention because it looks like Trump can’t legally skip over Rosenstein in this case.
GS-15 wouldn’t be abnormal for a government worker serving the U.S. AG directly.
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
But.. Who going to make Muller follow it?
I don't know. But if he doesn't they'll argue it as reason he is out of control and should be shut down.
It's a catch 22 kind of thing. Dunno how it all resolves.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
The thing that people are worried about is Mueller being fired or having his funding reduced to nothing.
I believe if either of those happen Mueller would have standing (as an aggrieved party) to bring a lawsuit against the US DOJ due to the fact that Whitaker's appointment was in violation of the FVRA
The short of it is the vacancies act would allow a non senate confirmed person to fill in if no other senate confirmed persons are available.
Rod Rosenstein is like... right there. So that’s breaking one part of it.
Also apparently this person has to be making the equivalent of a GS-15 salary which would be hilariously high for his position as Sessions chief of staff if he was actually making it.
I feel like the actual details of this are not going to get any media attention because it looks like Trump can’t legally skip over Rosenstein in this case.
GS-15 wouldn’t be abnormal for a government worker serving the U.S. AG directly.
Oh I thought it was higher than what a chief of staff would make. Either way, placing a GS015 non-confirmed person in the spot is only supposed to be done if no other senate confirmed persons are available, and there's a dude quite available.
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
The thing that people are worried about is Mueller being fired or having his funding reduced to nothing.
I believe if either of those happen Mueller would have standing (as an aggrieved party) to bring a lawsuit against the US DOJ due to the fact that Whitaker's appointment was in violation of the FVRA
And can that be appealed to the Supreme Court?
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
The thing that people are worried about is Mueller being fired or having his funding reduced to nothing.
I believe if either of those happen Mueller would have standing (as an aggrieved party) to bring a lawsuit against the US DOJ due to the fact that Whitaker's appointment was in violation of the FVRA
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
The thing that people are worried about is Mueller being fired or having his funding reduced to nothing.
I believe if either of those happen Mueller would have standing (as an aggrieved party) to bring a lawsuit against the US DOJ due to the fact that Whitaker's appointment was in violation of the FVRA
And can that be appealed to the Supreme Court?
Maybe, but so what? The Supreme Court has not started ignoring every law yet, just the ones they don't like.
The short of it is the vacancies act would allow a non senate confirmed person to fill in if no other senate confirmed persons are available.
Rod Rosenstein is like... right there. So that’s breaking one part of it.
Also apparently this person has to be making the equivalent of a GS-15 salary which would be hilariously high for his position as Sessions chief of staff if he was actually making it.
I feel like the actual details of this are not going to get any media attention because it looks like Trump can’t legally skip over Rosenstein in this case.
GS-15 wouldn’t be abnormal for a government worker serving the U.S. AG directly.
Oh I thought it was higher than what a chief of staff would make. Either way, placing a GS015 non-confirmed person in the spot is only supposed to be done if no other senate confirmed persons are available, and there's a dude quite available.
It would depend on whose chief of staff, but definitely safe to say anyone working directly for a presidential appointee is capping out on the payscale. DC also gets a little weird with people’s functional duties being incongruent with their official equivalent just because of the priority of some offices.
That said, yeah, it’s not just against the law, apparently, but really schmmy that someone still a GS-15 is replacing Sessions. If you’re on that pay table even at the highest levels you’re at most a policy advisor or person interpreting and executing the decisions of policy makers, not the person making the policy yourself.
I think Trump thinks the midterms proved he was good to go on this.
Because Trump.
He’s very likely shot himself in the foot. According to The Hill, if Mueller is fired before they take the House, the Democrats plan to call him in for a hearing to discuss his investigation and any findings in depth.
I think it's weird that The Senate would be okay to accept that reasoning. We all know they're basically unwilling to move against Trump. I don't know that Trump bragging about how he controls them will actually work though. It's like he thinks they work for him and he's the CEO. Generally even shitty public servants are offended by that idea.
I think Trump thinks the midterms proved he was good to go on this.
Because Trump.
Well, Congress is in recess so Trump can use a recess appointment for Whitaker (if I'm getting it correct) and then use his bigger Senate majority full of Trumpians to ram AG Kobach though.
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
I think Trump thinks the midterms proved he was good to go on this.
Because Trump.
I mean, given that the Senate will never, ever lift a finger against him for at least the next two years, he wouldn't be wrong. If the senate were 50/50, he'd probably have to think twice, but now?
Even if Mueller's investigation weren't touched in the slightest, even if Sessions weren't out, he'd still be absolutely safe from any consequence. So I guess he might as well get his petty vindictive impulses out now, considering it's all clear after last night.
Yep. If this isn't a confession there's something to all these allegations, I dunno what is. With as much smoke as is being kicked up, there's obviously fire there- in this case, it's evidence of Trump breaking the law. This, I imagine, is the first in a series of tantrums where he tries to treat the government like his own business and quash any resistance to him, because he's still thinking like a businessman- he always has. He thinks any attack on the government is a personal attack on him and his brand, and this is his attempt to seize complete power and hide everything behind a curtain.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
So. Do we need to make a new thread for the response to this? Not allowed to talk about in here but I think it’s important to coordinate and spread the word
Posts
Time gets funny as the planet falls into the black hole
I think everyone is assuming Trump will just do it anyway and no one will stop him.
Yes Trump might legally not have a leg to stand on doing this, but the people responsible in stopping him aren't exactly tripping over themselves to do it.
It looks like any illegally appointed official's actions have no force or effect under the FVRA of 1998
So basically if they do something, the government can be sued, and the result of that suit should be the nullification of any actions taken by the illegally appointed person.
So, let's say, the firing of Robert Mueller.
I'm gleaning this from an article written the last time Trump blatantly violated the FVRA
https://www.lawfareblog.com/acting-accordingly-acting-officers-and-federal-vacancies-reform-act
Which, rereading this, I'm entirely sure he is still doing.
I will die laughing
I mean if everyone in the AG's office lets you set budgets and determine priorities.. I mean how do you retroactively nullify that?
Ok so Sessions is out and some donk named Whitaker is in. Whitaker is a shill. But... Whitaker can't actually do anything? I missed the part in between "he's in" and "something illegal happened so he can't do anything."
It requires someone to enforce the law, so I wouldn't count on him being treated as illegal anyone soon.
I don't think its 100% confirmed that Whitaker and Trump believe that.
People are SAYING that is the case, but who is going to make him follow the rules?
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
GS-15 wouldn’t be abnormal for a government worker serving the U.S. AG directly.
But.. Who going to make Muller follow it?
You can't entirely obviously, but a court can tell them to fuck off or stop doing X enough that they won't be able to actually do much either.
https://www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response/search/
I don't know. But if he doesn't they'll argue it as reason he is out of control and should be shut down.
It's a catch 22 kind of thing. Dunno how it all resolves.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The thing that people are worried about is Mueller being fired or having his funding reduced to nothing.
I believe if either of those happen Mueller would have standing (as an aggrieved party) to bring a lawsuit against the US DOJ due to the fact that Whitaker's appointment was in violation of the FVRA
Oh I thought it was higher than what a chief of staff would make. Either way, placing a GS015 non-confirmed person in the spot is only supposed to be done if no other senate confirmed persons are available, and there's a dude quite available.
And one way or another Trump will be gone the next time he's up for reelection
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
And can that be appealed to the Supreme Court?
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
With Trump stooges on the bench, sure.
Probably won't amount to much.
I think Trump thinks the midterms proved he was good to go on this.
Because Trump.
Maybe, but so what? The Supreme Court has not started ignoring every law yet, just the ones they don't like.
"If they think they are going to waste money, we'll show we can waste even more money! Two can play that game!"
The Senate can't investigate the House, though. All they could do is investigate individual members and groups, which they could always do anyway.
It would depend on whose chief of staff, but definitely safe to say anyone working directly for a presidential appointee is capping out on the payscale. DC also gets a little weird with people’s functional duties being incongruent with their official equivalent just because of the priority of some offices.
That said, yeah, it’s not just against the law, apparently, but really schmmy that someone still a GS-15 is replacing Sessions. If you’re on that pay table even at the highest levels you’re at most a policy advisor or person interpreting and executing the decisions of policy makers, not the person making the policy yourself.
He’s very likely shot himself in the foot. According to The Hill, if Mueller is fired before they take the House, the Democrats plan to call him in for a hearing to discuss his investigation and any findings in depth.
And televise it.
What part of the Dems taking the House and GOP making modest gains in the Senate -- just like everyone predicted -- proves anything?
Nevermind. I don't know why I still attempt to ascribe any kind of logic or reason to any of them.
Well, Congress is in recess so Trump can use a recess appointment for Whitaker (if I'm getting it correct) and then use his bigger Senate majority full of Trumpians to ram AG Kobach though.
I mean, given that the Senate will never, ever lift a finger against him for at least the next two years, he wouldn't be wrong. If the senate were 50/50, he'd probably have to think twice, but now?
Even if Mueller's investigation weren't touched in the slightest, even if Sessions weren't out, he'd still be absolutely safe from any consequence. So I guess he might as well get his petty vindictive impulses out now, considering it's all clear after last night.
That’s my question too.
If Whitaker cannot legally control Mueller’s investigation and Mueller ignores him to force the issue, what happens?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Trump is nothing if not a cable news watcher. And the whole "Republicans did well last night" media narrative is out there.
Is uh... is the POTUS trying to basically take the country hostage here?
Yep. If this isn't a confession there's something to all these allegations, I dunno what is. With as much smoke as is being kicked up, there's obviously fire there- in this case, it's evidence of Trump breaking the law. This, I imagine, is the first in a series of tantrums where he tries to treat the government like his own business and quash any resistance to him, because he's still thinking like a businessman- he always has. He thinks any attack on the government is a personal attack on him and his brand, and this is his attempt to seize complete power and hide everything behind a curtain.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Uh
The GOP has allowed that since his inauguration.