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Tabata out at SQuenix. [Final Fantasy] XV development to end prematurely (finally?).

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Damn. Was looking forward to them finishing XV.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    It's a damn shame, I was looking forward to more FFXV. Still, holy shit SQuenix what are you doing.

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Well personally I'd prefer they put that manpower towards an actual new game. So if they have an actual plan after this I much prefer them taking this route instead of putting support on DLC for more years.

    Sad for Tabata but overall hopefully a good thing.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Well personally I'd prefer they put that manpower towards an actual new game. So if they have an actual plan after this I much prefer them taking this route instead of putting support on DLC for more years.

    Sad for Tabata but overall hopefully a good thing.

    I mean, I don't think this bodes well at all for future games. It seems that FF7R is going through a troubled development and there seems no evidence that FFXVI isn't. There was a post on Restera that really echoes my thoughts. Regardless of how you feel about XV, this is the 3rd FF in a row that's been a mess to develop. It really sucks for the mainline FF games currently. At least I still have RK and XIV+XI to get my FF fix.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Yeah, honestly I think it's somewhat good news. Stop burning money into XV. Let the thing rest. It's never going to be "fixed" or " completed". Take that effort and put it into something new.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Well personally I'd prefer they put that manpower towards an actual new game. So if they have an actual plan after this I much prefer them taking this route instead of putting support on DLC for more years.

    Sad for Tabata but overall hopefully a good thing.

    Tabata is apparently opening his own studio.

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    I should mention:
    - Tabata is starting his own business to tackle a new project, his "next big challenge after FFXV"
    - Luminous Studio is still around, and will be pointed toward AAA development.
    Having conducted an in-depth review of the business strategy for Luminous Productions Co., Ltd., a wholly-owned subsidiary (the “Subsidiary”), the Company had decided to focus the Subsidiary’s development efforts on large-scale, high-quality AAA game titles, which best leverages the Subsidiary’s strengths.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Renzo wrote: »
    I should mention:
    - Tabata is starting his own business to tackle a new project, his "next big challenge after FFXV"
    - Luminous Studio is still around, and will be pointed toward AAA development.
    Having conducted an in-depth review of the business strategy for Luminous Productions Co., Ltd., a wholly-owned subsidiary (the “Subsidiary”), the Company had decided to focus the Subsidiary’s development efforts on large-scale, high-quality AAA game titles, which best leverages the Subsidiary’s strengths.

    Yea this is why I'm not jumping ship yet. They are restructured towards what I wish they had been focused on before. Now will they make a mess of it? Who knows! But if they do that's not any worse than where we were before so that's not exactly a bad thing, just a status quo thing.

    And I'm personally hoping maybe whatever projects were losing them money leads them away from trying to do so many different things and just narrow that focus down back towards just making good AAA games.

    Mistakes and missteps happen in business like everywhere else. It's all about how you respond to them so I'm not going to fault for making a big response just yet.

    DemonStacey on
  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Let's be honest, though. As much as Tabata and his team worked to turn XV around, he's not exactly without sin in history. Basically every off-colour comment around the whole Cindy topic, everything awkward about Parasite Eve: 3rd Birthday, and I'm sure a number of us had our doubts about him before XV released.

    I'm okay with Tabata resigning to do his own thing. Personal growth and whatnot. SquareEnix needs to get some new blood on Final Fantasy though. The delays on their flagship IP series isn't warming them up to old fans, and it's hard to make new fans when your games practically take a whole new generation or console cycle to develop.

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    I haven't heard a lick of news about FF16. I can only assume it exists in someone's head as a glimmer of an idea, but they've been super mum about it.

  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    Shame about the DLC. I enjoyed how much effort S-E invested into the XV universe and wanted to see more of it.

    At the very least I'd love to know what the remaining DLCs were about.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Welp. So long 15, you sucked while you were here, and now you are gone. Good riddance.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Just fire Nomura. Everything started to go wrong when they let nomura do anything more than just drawing pictures. He clearly knows nothing about production.

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  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    The XV team was diverted to other projects for years. They worked on the XIV relaunch for at least a year, for example. I'm not saying Nomura is without fault, just that it's not so simple as "Nomura is bad". Square Enix's development troubles clearly didn't end after the PS3 generation.

    At least Kingdom Hearts 3 is coming soon.

  • vamenvamen Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Renzo wrote: »
    The XV team was diverted to other projects for years. They worked on the XIV relaunch for at least a year, for example. I'm not saying Nomura is without fault, just that it's not so simple as "Nomura is bad". Square Enix's development troubles clearly didn't end after the PS3 generation.

    At least Kingdom Hearts 3 is coming soon.

    I worry for it, I won't lie. And man, it's been so long - and the story is a wreck as it is - that I'm going to be completely clueless on what in the world is happening.

    FF16...it feels weird to even type that. I hope it has a less bumpy road than everything since FF13. FF12, even.

    vamen on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I still have a special place for that game. It came at the right time for me. I still don't believe we'll hear ANYTHING at all for FF7R or FFXVI. My hope is that the new FFXIV expansion or FFXI mobile will be announced in the coming weeks.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I find it very ironic that Square Enix went through this whole thing about establishing some sort of council to ensure the integrity of the brand is maintained in FF. They have a panel of people whose job it is to evaluate a project and make sure it meets both the company's standards as well as their fans' standards. And for however many years that council has existed, it has failed to live up to its job.

    What's the point of having a panel that ensures the quality of their flagship product, if they allow catastrophes out into the wild like XV?

  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    I dunno when the brand of Final Fantasy went from being about cool RPGs to spectacle, but I haven't liked anything since XIII. Maybe XIII-2. That was a fucking long time ago and kind of sad.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I still have a special place for that game. It came at the right time for me. I still don't believe we'll hear ANYTHING at all for FF7R or FFXVI. My hope is that the new FFXIV expansion or FFXI mobile will be announced in the coming weeks.

    XIV expansion we basically know when the official announcement is already. Fanfests have been pretty consistent.

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I'll say it again, XIV is probably the best FF this side of FFX. Heavensward makes FF12's story look really bad. And the final Stormblood boss fight is pretty epic.

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  • vamenvamen Registered User regular
    I wish I liked FF14. I really dig the world, though the races and vanilla story didn't do a lot for me...but I hear it gets great.
    But man, I can't get beyond the gameplay. And I REALLY wish I could.

  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I find it very ironic that Square Enix went through this whole thing about establishing some sort of council to ensure the integrity of the brand is maintained in FF. They have a panel of people whose job it is to evaluate a project and make sure it meets both the company's standards as well as their fans' standards. And for however many years that council has existed, it has failed to live up to its job.

    What's the point of having a panel that ensures the quality of their flagship product, if they allow catastrophes out into the wild like XV?

    The ambition behind FFXIII Fabula Nova Crystallis was something I could get behind. Three games, connected themes, though not necessarily a connected universe, I think the project just grew too big, and they were working with a new engine that had problems. Type-0 managed to work itself out, but when Versus started to tank, I think they didn't know how to recover.

    It's easy to allow a trusted developer (Nomura) who already had a few big successes (Kingdom Hearts) to have second chances to right the ship, but whatever happened after that, obviously it couldn't be recovered, and by then, they were in too deep. It was still smart of them to salvage the project as a mainline FF game, but I think we all knew the damage was done. I would argue that they made the most of a bad situation, and XV turned out alright, all things considered, but it still makes me lament what Versus XIII could have been if they didn't have all those missteps.

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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I still have a special place for that game. It came at the right time for me. I still don't believe we'll hear ANYTHING at all for FF7R or FFXVI. My hope is that the new FFXIV expansion or FFXI mobile will be announced in the coming weeks.

    XIV's expansion will be announced in 9-10 days at the Vegas Fan Fest.
    Toothy wrote: »
    I dunno when the brand of Final Fantasy went from being about cool RPGs to spectacle, but I haven't liked anything since XIII. Maybe XIII-2. That was a fucking long time ago and kind of sad.

    You think that's long? Outside of XIV, I've been disappointed in the mainline series since X.

    My hope is that this restructuring allows them to make a quality XVI. I won't shed any tears if VII-R is cancelled, too.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »

    My hope is that this restructuring allows them to make a quality XVI. I won't shed any tears if VII-R is cancelled, too.

    Yea. I'm on board with that. Burn it all down. Try again from a better angle. It can certainly be done. There's room out there for AAA jrpgs.

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    I think that FF integrity group was formed after XV. Still, it's not looking too great at the moment, with this news.

    But I do enjoy the hell out of XIV. Looking forward to the new expansion announcement, even though I think most know what it'll be called already.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Speaking of XIV and how stupefyingly good it is, I'd love Yoshi-P to head a mainline FF game. Downside being that he'd probably not be on XIV anymore, though on the plus side he has talked about how he has basically been training his team from day one to function without him in the future. So XIV could still be in good hands without him.

    Not sure he would want to though. I think he is an MMO man through and through.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Speaking of XIV and how stupefyingly good it is, I'd love Yoshi-P to head a mainline FF game. Downside being that he'd probably not be on XIV anymore, though on the plus side he has talked about how he has basically been training his team from day one to function without him in the future. So XIV could still be in good hands without him.

    Not sure he would want to though. I think he is an MMO man through and through.
    Axen wrote: »
    Speaking of XIV and how stupefyingly good it is, I'd love Yoshi-P to head a mainline FF game. Downside being that he'd probably not be on XIV anymore, though on the plus side he has talked about how he has basically been training his team from day one to function without him in the future. So XIV could still be in good hands without him.

    Not sure he would want to though. I think he is an MMO man through and through.

    Yea he seems to actually understand the playerbase. That would be great in making the next mainline game. I've put lots of time in to FF14 but was never really able to get into the story because of the whole MMO thing. But just imagining that world and overall story in a proper single player experience.. man that would be cool.

  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    XII is good, fuck politely disagree with the haters

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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    (looks to the left and right nervously)

    Hi. Been a while.

    I didn't want negative FF news to be the thing that brought me back here, but I'm still reeling from the ridiculousness of this whole thing, so I wanted to share a few thoughts here.

    Summarized, I find this news pretty devastating for the Final Fantasy brand, at least as far as its integrity goes. The main reasons being:

    1. Final Fantasy XV will end its legacy as an "incomplete" product. That label was already given to it by plenty of people, but with the news of the DLC being cancelled it now feels like an official branding by the very people who published the game. I wasn't exactly chomping at the bit for more episodes (Ardyn sounds super neat, Luna not so much....you can't salvage that character), but I was still interested in what they were planning to end the game's content with.

    2. Square loses yet another talented director. The director's seat of FF remains cursed, going as far back as FFXII. You know why Nomura gets so much undeserved flak from the fanbase? Because he's one of the very very few consistent faces that we can associate with the brand. It's frankly miraculous that he's stuck around for as long as he had, and I'm honestly worried that after Kingdom Hearts III wraps up that the pressure will finally get to him, causing him to leave the director duties of FFVII Remake even though that will result in even more online backlash (that once again, he doesn't deserve...people seem really convinced that he likes juggling a hundred projects at once and having his major games delayed constantly). You can argue about Tabata's results, but you can't argue that he worked himself to the bone just to get this game out. Final Fantasy games seem to be a jail sentence for many directors, even the successful ones. Yoshi-P saved FFXIV and turned it into legitimately one of the best games in the franchise, but he's also forever chained to that game and will likely never be able to make anything else.

    3. This now affects all future announcements. This one might be a small thing that blows over, but it's already taking effect: there's supposed to be a Dissidia NT announcement stream on November 10, and already the comments sections are filling up with "What will you cancel THIS time?"

    4. It's currently the biggest evidence that Square is mismanaging Final Fantasy. The insider word is that Tabata wanted to make his own original not-Final Fantasy IP, and Square kept pressuring him to turn the project into an FF game, something that's been done many times in the past, going as far back as FFX. Frustrated, he finally chose to call it quits, going off to make his dream game with another studio.

    I honestly don't want Final Fantasy XVI. I don't even want to hear it's in development. Not until they finally get their shit together and feel confident that they can plan, develop, and release a quality game within a reasonable time frame. If they do the same thing they've always done, show off an announcement CG trailer and a few conceptually cool characters and settings, I just wouldn't care anymore. I'm already sitting around waiting for Final Fantasy VII Remake, a project I'm very worried about now (not that it will be cancelled, absolutely not, but of whatever compromises they'll need to make just to get it out).

    And for some unfathomable reason this seems to ONLY be happening with their flagship series. Octopath Traveler and Dragon Quest XI both came out at a reasonable time frame with seemingly no development drama, and both are fantastic. This is specifically a Final Fantasy problem, and it entirely seems to be the result of too much ambition and not enough focus.

    Truthfully, I feel like this is going to keep happening until they stop with the "We have to reinvent EVERYTHING with every new Final Fantasy" approach and stick to a more cohesive vision and game design, like they did for Final Fantasy I-VII. Stop coming up with a new, untested battle system and refine what already works. Stop trying to create the next graphical showcase and focus on art style (Dragon Quest XI may not be as technically impressive as God of War 2018, but it's still insanely gorgeous. You don't need THE BEST GRAPHICS IN THE WORLD, because I'm still immersed regardless). Prioritize the things that people value in a Final Fantasy game (good characters, an engaging story, a large imaginative world) instead of inserting mechanics and features to try and chase the latest mainstream trend. If you want to do a Battle Royale Final Fantasy, make a separate spinoff game about it instead of delaying your major numbered title trying to fit that shit in.

    There needs to be a change. This has been a problem as far back as Final Fantasy XII, and they still haven't learn their lesson.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Things have got to be a complete mess behind the scenes at Squeenix. I'm sure no one's happy Kingdom Hearts III took so goddamn long. They have not handled the shifts in AAA development well at all.

    Though I will say one thing: the amount of DLC planned for XV was absolutely bananapants. Just do three or four and then move on to help other games.

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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Things have got to be a complete mess behind the scenes at Squeenix. I'm sure no one's happy Kingdom Hearts III took so goddamn long. They have not handled the shifts in AAA development well at all.

    Though I will say one thing: the amount of DLC planned for XV was absolutely bananapants. Just do three or four and then move on to help other games.

    In all fairness, I believe the licensing nightmare associated with KH played a big role in delaying the third game.

    That and a crap engine. After seeing the immediate improved results with Unreal, I suspect it won’t be long until they decide to close their Luminous studio for good.

    It would be a step in the right direction honesty, if they finally stop literally burning money trying to create a new faulty engine and just stick to what works.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Yeah they should absolutely just commit to Unreal. DQXI looked and played fantastic on it.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Stop trying to make games as a platform or service in and of their selves, and just make a fucking game.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Yeah I've not been a fan of SE reinventing the wheel with each FF game. Sure there is something to be said about trying something new, but their method is just overly time consuming and very expensive. I've no problem with them trying some new things, just don't burn your ships down just to build new ones.

    I enjoyed XV, warts and all. Sure it wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I would personally like to see them take those systems and mechanics and use them as a springboard for a hypothetical XVI. I think there is promise there.
    Building upon whats been done, improving on things that need improving, and designing XVI off those systems from the word go could, IMHO, lead to something special.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    I agree, re: Kingdom Hearts 3 delays. No, I don't think I could specifically pinpoint one or two reasons why that game has taken as long as it has, but I would give big credit to Disney both for causing the delays and for keeping the game on track.

    Disney had their own tumultuous 5 year window of acquiring a bunch of new IPs, and I'm sure some of them will be showing up in the game. There's no doubt in my mind that they purposely held back the development of the game to include some of their recent, new, and upcoming animated content into it. At the same time, they're probably laying on some pressure to SE to put that stuff in, and get it shipped so they can finally see a return on investment and put that stuff fresh into young minds to go see the movies.

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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Axen wrote: »
    Yeah I've not been a fan of SE reinventing the wheel with each FF game. Sure there is something to be said about trying something new, but their method is just overly time consuming and very expensive. I've no problem with them trying some new things, just don't burn your ships down just to build new ones.

    I enjoyed XV, warts and all. Sure it wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I would personally like to see them take those systems and mechanics and use them as a springboard for a hypothetical XVI. I think there is promise there.
    Building upon whats been done, improving on things that need improving, and designing XVI off those systems from the word go could, IMHO, lead to something special.

    I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face: FFX had the best battle system of the series. The perfect refinement of the ATB system, where all turns are instant and you can swap out party members on the fly.

    Think of how much more improved any one of their battle systems would be if they just stuck with one for several games instead of tossing everything out and starting over. In another timeline, FFXIII would have released with an evolved Gambit System, and may have been the far better game for it.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Yeah I've not been a fan of SE reinventing the wheel with each FF game. Sure there is something to be said about trying something new, but their method is just overly time consuming and very expensive. I've no problem with them trying some new things, just don't burn your ships down just to build new ones.

    I enjoyed XV, warts and all. Sure it wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I would personally like to see them take those systems and mechanics and use them as a springboard for a hypothetical XVI. I think there is promise there.
    Building upon whats been done, improving on things that need improving, and designing XVI off those systems from the word go could, IMHO, lead to something special.

    I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face: FFX had the best battle system of the series. The perfect refinement of the ATB system, where all turns are instant and you can swap out party members on the fly.

    Think of how much more improved any one of their battle systems would be if they just stuck with one for several games instead of tossing everything out and starting over. In another timeline, FFXIII would have released with an evolved Gambit System, and may have been the far better game for it.

    X-2 I think is maybe better, but...

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    If XVI is another near-future-ish world, I'm out. I want another full-fantasy FF like IX.

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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    50/50 they just rebrand FFVIIR as FFXVI after another few years of not figuring their shit out

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