I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
+11
Options
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Oh. Meanwhile, the situation in the US seems to be resolved by the simple fact that it turns out Mexico take a dim view of people storming fences too. According to BBC news, they plan to deport the people who tried to breach the barrier.
Oh. Meanwhile, the situation in the US seems to be resolved by the simple fact that it turns out Mexico take a dim view of people storming fences too. According to BBC news, they plan to deport the people who tried to breach the barrier.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
0
Options
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
Depends if Russia escalates, which it may very well do. This is their most significant action in recent years (to my knowledge) in this particular border conflict.
If Russia escalates, Ukraine probably won't have much of a choice but to declare war or to openly acquiesce to Russian demands and essentially become a puppet of Putin's Russia.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
Depends if Russia escalates, which it may very well do. This is their most significant action in recent years (to my knowledge) in this particular border conflict.
If Russia escalates, Ukraine probably won't have much of a choice but to declare war or to openly acquiesce to Russian demands and essentially become a puppet of Putin's Russia.
Well, often there are quite a few ethnic Russians who are pro-Russia in your post-Soviet states bordering Russia, and this forms part of the problem. Russia uses the situation of groups like that to enact policy like the annexation of Crimea, and often has extensive networks of support within the area to assist this.
So a lot of nations bordering Russia have very anti-Russian governments and ethnic groups, but deal with ethnic Russians who in some areas are sizeable minorities or even majorities.
Is it significant that they don't appear to be appealing to the US for help?
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
0
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The President of the Ukraine has officially called for international help.
Is it significant that they don't appear to be appealing to the US for help?
I doubt it, the Trump admin already increased the aid we give them to include lethal arms
Dongs Galore on
+1
Options
ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
Ahhhhh, yes.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
0
Options
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Well, often there are quite a few ethnic Russians who are pro-Russia in your post-Soviet states bordering Russia, and this forms part of the problem. Russia uses the situation of groups like that to enact policy like the annexation of Crimea, and often has extensive networks of support within the area to assist this.
So a lot of nations bordering Russia have very anti-Russian governments and ethnic groups, but deal with ethnic Russians who in some areas are sizeable minorities or even majorities.
All according to plan. Stalin forcibly moved groups of Russians within the Soviet Union to "russify" all the non-Russian states. Putin is taking advantage of this fact to try to recreate the USSR with him at its head.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
Yup. The big thing here is Russia looks (at least at the moment) to be trying to cut off the majority of Ukraine's black sea coast from the rest of the world.
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
Haven't they been trying to get into the UN or NATO the last few years? They just haven't been able to clear the final hurdles due to sabotage from within from pro-Russia countries and/or it takes a long time for membership to be confirmed IIRC.
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
Haven't they been trying to get into the UN or NATO the last few years? They just haven't been able to clear the final hurdles due to sabotage from within from pro-Russia countries and/or it takes a long time for membership to be confirmed IIRC.
Eh. There's been groups within Ukraine going either way. The Russians stepped on them and invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine because the pro-Russian government was thrown out of power during the 2014 revolution. Which the Russians viewed as a western-backed coup to remove pro-Russian elements from the government.
+1
Options
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
Yup. The big thing here is Russia looks (at least at the moment) to be trying to cut off the majority of Ukraine's black sea coast from the rest of the world.
While it might not have the same effect, Ukraine just has a bit of a remembrance day about the famines the U.S.S.R. caused.
Blocking them off from the sea of Azov might not cause a famine, but it's nearly the same when it comes to the economy.
The recent history of Ukraine under Russian control/influence is why I can see these actions pushing Ukraine to declaring a formal state of war with Russia. Nothing good has ever happened to Ukraine while Russia was running the show.
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
Haven't they been trying to get into the UN or NATO the last few years? They just haven't been able to clear the final hurdles due to sabotage from within from pro-Russia countries and/or it takes a long time for membership to be confirmed IIRC.
Ukraine is in the UN. Since 2014 they've been trying to get into NATO, but they have to meet the criteria for membership and also NATO has to decide whether the risk of confrontation with Russia is worth it.
there's some twitter chatter that Ukraine is also asking the parliament to declare a state of war, but I think that's a misstatement/misreading of the martial law declaration
Yeah that is a mistranslation, its state of martial law that they're declaring.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
Haven't they been trying to get into the UN or NATO the last few years? They just haven't been able to clear the final hurdles due to sabotage from within from pro-Russia countries and/or it takes a long time for membership to be confirmed IIRC.
Ukraine is in the UN. Since 2014 they've been trying to get into NATO, but they have to meet the criteria for membership and also NATO has to decide whether the risk of confrontation with Russia is worth it.
addendum: come to think of it, Ukraine is not only in the UN, but was actually a founding UN member in 1945. The USSR initially argued that the SSRs all counted as independent countries. They eventually settled for just the Ukraine and Byelorussian SSRs when the US insisted that under this logic every state of the Union must also be given seats, which would have given the US roughly half the general assembly.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
0
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Maybe it's just temporary until Russia gets what it wants from Ukraine, but that's not a big improvement.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
I mean, what makes you say there is a blockade at all? A blockade is a long-term project; seizing ships, or closing off a shipping lane briefly doesn't count.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
I mean, what makes you say there is a blockade at all? A blockade is a long-term project; seizing ships, or closing off a shipping lane briefly doesn't count.
They’ve closed Crimea’s borders on land and sea. I posted this useful map from the co-chair of the European Commission for Foreign Relations yesterday.
Russia knows there is no coherent western response from Europe, NATO and the US to it's aggressive actions in Ukraine.
It is exerting it's influence and authority in the region, displaying what it can and will do in order to ensure local polities are aware of that. Classic imperial power play. I doubt they actually want that much concrete territory or anything other than what they currently have, although sole control of access to Azov would be of strategic use to them.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
I mean, what makes you say there is a blockade at all? A blockade is a long-term project; seizing ships, or closing off a shipping lane briefly doesn't count.
They’ve closed Crimea’s borders on land and sea. I posted this useful map from the co-chair of the European Commission for Foreign Relations yesterday.
I don't think the Ukraine have declared war on Russia. It seems they're debating declaring martial law, not war, and requesting international support.
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
I mean, what makes you say there is a blockade at all? A blockade is a long-term project; seizing ships, or closing off a shipping lane briefly doesn't count.
They’ve closed Crimea’s borders on land and sea. I posted this useful map from the co-chair of the European Commission for Foreign Relations yesterday.
Posts
I mean, yeah. There's no version of this where Ukrainian forces try to escalate this that doesn't end with Russia bordering Poland again. They're going to prepare for Russia's next move, not make their own.
Yeah, there's a few reports that the Ukraine have declared war, but I think they're mistranslated.
... to where?
To Honduras? Where they emigrated from?
Ukraine didn't declare war when Russia annexed Crimea, and unofficially seized the Donbas which resulted in heavy fighting and a bunch of deaths.
They're not going to declare war over a few boats and injuries.
Depends if Russia escalates, which it may very well do. This is their most significant action in recent years (to my knowledge) in this particular border conflict.
If Russia escalates, Ukraine probably won't have much of a choice but to declare war or to openly acquiesce to Russian demands and essentially become a puppet of Putin's Russia.
What, no.
So a lot of nations bordering Russia have very anti-Russian governments and ethnic groups, but deal with ethnic Russians who in some areas are sizeable minorities or even majorities.
So that excuse not to deploy US troops is nice and fresh in everyone's minds ahead of whatever happens next.
Not the dictators that are propped up by the Russians.
Is it significant that they don't appear to be appealing to the US for help?
I doubt it, the Trump admin already increased the aid we give them to include lethal arms
All according to plan. Stalin forcibly moved groups of Russians within the Soviet Union to "russify" all the non-Russian states. Putin is taking advantage of this fact to try to recreate the USSR with him at its head.
You may already know all this.
The US did sign up to the Budapest Memorandum though, didn’t it?
Not that it matters since Obama was prevented from doing anything when Crimea was annexed in the first place.
Sure sounds like it from his tweet few posts up.
It isn't just about boats, its about Ukraine being blockaded out of the Sea of Azov.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
There's a reason the Baltics are very very eager members of NATO.
Ukraine is sadly the last one left and so is gonna get hung out to dry. Russia won't let them go (as we've already seen) because they are the last one in the border region that hasn't already picked a side.
Yup. The big thing here is Russia looks (at least at the moment) to be trying to cut off the majority of Ukraine's black sea coast from the rest of the world.
Haven't they been trying to get into the UN or NATO the last few years? They just haven't been able to clear the final hurdles due to sabotage from within from pro-Russia countries and/or it takes a long time for membership to be confirmed IIRC.
Eh. There's been groups within Ukraine going either way. The Russians stepped on them and invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine because the pro-Russian government was thrown out of power during the 2014 revolution. Which the Russians viewed as a western-backed coup to remove pro-Russian elements from the government.
While it might not have the same effect, Ukraine just has a bit of a remembrance day about the famines the U.S.S.R. caused.
Blocking them off from the sea of Azov might not cause a famine, but it's nearly the same when it comes to the economy.
The recent history of Ukraine under Russian control/influence is why I can see these actions pushing Ukraine to declaring a formal state of war with Russia. Nothing good has ever happened to Ukraine while Russia was running the show.
Ukraine is in the UN. Since 2014 they've been trying to get into NATO, but they have to meet the criteria for membership and also NATO has to decide whether the risk of confrontation with Russia is worth it.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
addendum: come to think of it, Ukraine is not only in the UN, but was actually a founding UN member in 1945. The USSR initially argued that the SSRs all counted as independent countries. They eventually settled for just the Ukraine and Byelorussian SSRs when the US insisted that under this logic every state of the Union must also be given seats, which would have given the US roughly half the general assembly.
What makes you think its a permanent blockade? I've been reading but details seem pretty sparse still.
Well given they went and spent a bunch of time and money building a bridge from Russia to the Crimea just before they started the blockade it would seem that they’re planning for the long term.
Maybe it's just temporary until Russia gets what it wants from Ukraine, but that's not a big improvement.
I mean, what makes you say there is a blockade at all? A blockade is a long-term project; seizing ships, or closing off a shipping lane briefly doesn't count.
They’ve closed Crimea’s borders on land and sea. I posted this useful map from the co-chair of the European Commission for Foreign Relations yesterday.
It is exerting it's influence and authority in the region, displaying what it can and will do in order to ensure local polities are aware of that. Classic imperial power play. I doubt they actually want that much concrete territory or anything other than what they currently have, although sole control of access to Azov would be of strategic use to them.
Again, a temporary closing doesn't mean a blockade.
I just watched some ships pass under the bridge here:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/
What was the flag on the ship? Because I'm not seeing a lot (any) Ukrainian on that map.