From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
@Frankiedarling this would be a far more appropriate thread to talk about pewdiepie in and there's a handy list in the above quote of his racism and sexism you're intent on defending.
I'm not defending him at all. I'm saying that the link between a wacko shouting "sub to pewdiepie" (an annoyingly ubiquitous meme) and said wacko shooting 50 people is pretty damn thin, and jumping on that particular hysteria train is not something I'd recommend.
That doesn't preclude you hating on him though. It would fit right in with our retro "8-chan is a thing OMG" thread, because apparently we all just got on the internet yesterday for the first time.
...you do get that one of the major things the alt right does is recruitment via "edgy memes" I hope?
Are you implying all edgy memes are an alt right recruiting tool?
That goes hand in hand with the increasingly minimal requirements for naming someone alt-right. At this point that terms seems to get slapped on folks with the slightest provocation.
Most edgy memes using alt right terms are, yes. Once you make joking about something acceptable and not shocking, it's a shorter path to the rest from there. It's also a common deflection tool. It's dead serious until someone calls them on it then it's not.
Same way that being racist or alt right or *whatever* is suddenly always "a term slapped on everyone". Its a meme deliberately crafted to deflect blame, AMD way too many people buy it.
The rest are just regular ol racist. Or sexist or whatever the flavor of bullshit happens to be.
Saying it's "just an edgy meme" is dismissing the real harm that that speech does by dismissing it as "just jokes" or "just trolling."
Is every single meme out there an alt-right dogwhistle? No, of course not. But there have been many, many of them created, or co-opted, by them. Don't give them the plausible deniability they crave by handwaving it away.
From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
@Frankiedarling this would be a far more appropriate thread to talk about pewdiepie in and there's a handy list in the above quote of his racism and sexism you're intent on defending.
I'm not defending him at all. I'm saying that the link between a wacko shouting "sub to pewdiepie" (an annoyingly ubiquitous meme) and said wacko shooting 50 people is pretty damn thin, and jumping on that particular hysteria train is not something I'd recommend.
That doesn't preclude you hating on him though. It would fit right in with our retro "8-chan is a thing OMG" thread, because apparently we all just got on the internet yesterday for the first time.
...you do get that one of the major things the alt right does is recruitment via "edgy memes" I hope?
Are you implying all edgy memes are an alt right recruiting tool?
That goes hand in hand with the increasingly minimal requirements for naming someone alt-right. At this point that terms seems to get slapped on folks with the slightest provocation.
Not all, but YES. Look up Pepe the Frog.
I find it hard to believe that someone could be this accidentally obtuse, so I must only surmise that you are knowingly and willfully obtuse and are purposely helping to perpetuate this bullshit that hate exists in a vacuum.
From what I understand Pepe originally had nothing to do with the alt-right and that the creator of Pepe is very upset with how it was co-opted. I'm wanting to think I heard he successfully sued a guy who tried to make an alt-right Pepe childrens' book.
A very simple trick to figure out if an edgy meme is used to normalize hate: is there an actual joke. Someone holding a sign, not funny. An hypothetical grand father dying in the Camps by falling down the guard tower, funny. The difference is rather obvious.
Also, if hatred is somehow the main form of edginess used, that becomes suspicious...
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
First off, he hasn't said/posted "dumb shit". What he has done is had a continued pattern of bigoted behavior, including using slurs while livestreaming and having an individual from non-English speaking nation who was doing odd tasks on Fiver put up a video using slurs unaware, which harmed that individual's ability to earn.
I knew about him using the n-word in a livestream, but I wasn't aware that the Death to All Jews was a stunt that he paid someone for. I was under the impression that he had found that image somewhere online and posted it to laugh about it or something. That's fucking malevolent.
Thanks for the links, everyone.
Nope, he is directly responsible for spreading the hatred, anti-semitism, and alt-right propaganda, no matter what some people would have you believe.
I'm reading that Vox article right now. I really shouldn't be shocked by this, and yet I am.
A lot of people have been actively downplaying his behavior for some time, for a number of reasons. Hopefully, this ends now.
I mean....it's literally happening in this thread right now.
From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
First off, he hasn't said/posted "dumb shit". What he has done is had a continued pattern of bigoted behavior, including using slurs while livestreaming and having an individual from non-English speaking nation who was doing odd tasks on Fiver put up a video using slurs unaware, which harmed that individual's ability to earn.
I knew about him using the n-word in a livestream, but I wasn't aware that the Death to All Jews was a stunt that he paid someone for. I was under the impression that he had found that image somewhere online and posted it to laugh about it or something. That's fucking malevolent.
Thanks for the links, everyone.
Nope, he is directly responsible for spreading the hatred, anti-semitism, and alt-right propaganda, no matter what some people would have you believe.
I'm reading that Vox article right now. I really shouldn't be shocked by this, and yet I am.
Edit: Ah, so that's what "red-pilled" means. I'm getting too old for the internet, clearly.
Yeah, same boat here (although I knew about red-pilling). How come so many YouTube celebrities seem to go insane over a few years? Does YouTube fame come with slow, but inevitable psychological damage?
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
@Frankiedarling this would be a far more appropriate thread to talk about pewdiepie in and there's a handy list in the above quote of his racism and sexism you're intent on defending.
I'm not defending him at all. I'm saying that the link between a wacko shouting "sub to pewdiepie" (an annoyingly ubiquitous meme) and said wacko shooting 50 people is pretty damn thin, and jumping on that particular hysteria train is not something I'd recommend.
That doesn't preclude you hating on him though. It would fit right in with our retro "8-chan is a thing OMG" thread, because apparently we all just got on the internet yesterday for the first time.
...you do get that one of the major things the alt right does is recruitment via "edgy memes" I hope?
Are you implying all edgy memes are an alt right recruiting tool?
That goes hand in hand with the increasingly minimal requirements for naming someone alt-right. At this point that terms seems to get slapped on folks with the slightest provocation.
Not all, but YES. Look up Pepe the Frog.
I find it hard to believe that someone could be this accidentally obtuse, so I must only surmise that you are knowingly and willfully obtuse and are purposely helping to perpetuate this bullshit that hate exists in a vacuum.
From what I understand Pepe originally had nothing to do with the alt-right and that the creator of Pepe is very upset with how it was co-opted. I'm wanting to think I heard he successfully sued a guy who tried to make an alt-right Pepe childrens' book.
Yes. But I also think that it was no big surprise that the “So nihilistic and edgy we hang out with Nazis” culture of the early Internet mutated into something nasty.
And that was where Pepe was born. The best that frog could ever have hoped for was to be forgotten before it all went to shit.
THQ Nordic's twitter account has been returning to relative normality recently. Replies talking about games, not so many talking about the 8chan fiasco.
But now, their latest tweet has at least some people chatting about the murderous Nazis they hung out with. So maybe their mistake isn't blowing over quite as fast as I'd feared? Blech, whatever, can't exactly feel good about any of this right now.
Guys, you can continue to talk about THQNordic here. But we already have a thread for the New Zealand attack, there's no reason to have the discussion in two places.
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
From my (admittedly brief) look into Pewdiepie it looks to me that he has said some dumb shit and posted some dumb shit. I'm not a fan because he's clearly a meme-spewing cancer upon the Youtube. Can someone either give me a brief rundown of why I should dislike him even more or point me towards an info source?
First off, he hasn't said/posted "dumb shit". What he has done is had a continued pattern of bigoted behavior, including using slurs while livestreaming and having an individual from non-English speaking nation who was doing odd tasks on Fiver put up a video using slurs unaware, which harmed that individual's ability to earn.
I knew about him using the n-word in a livestream, but I wasn't aware that the Death to All Jews was a stunt that he paid someone for. I was under the impression that he had found that image somewhere online and posted it to laugh about it or something. That's fucking malevolent.
Thanks for the links, everyone.
Nope, he is directly responsible for spreading the hatred, anti-semitism, and alt-right propaganda, no matter what some people would have you believe.
I'm reading that Vox article right now. I really shouldn't be shocked by this, and yet I am.
Edit: Ah, so that's what "red-pilled" means. I'm getting too old for the internet, clearly.
Yeah, same boat here (although I knew about red-pilling). How come so many YouTube celebrities seem to go insane over a few years? Does YouTube fame come with slow, but inevitable psychological damage?
the creators are vulnerable to the same exploitable flaw in the youtube algorithm that pushes recommendations towards more and more fringe and reactionary content. there is a lot of money in courting relationships with the fringe personalities that youtube is sending their users towards for radicalization
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
I was hoping that was the case as I know they had issues with people making some disturbingly racist mods for stellaris and paradox telling them to take a long walk off a short pier
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
So what you are saying is that I should buy their Rome game and more Stellaris.
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
So what you are saying is that I should buy their Rome game and more Stellaris.
Well, I mean, now that I'm not buying THQ Nordic stuff any more, I do have some more money left over.
I don't really care about Imperator, but there is some Cities Skylines DLC I don't have yet.
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
So what you are saying is that I should buy their Rome game and more Stellaris.
Since they finally - long overdue - shitcanned New White Wolf, I will probably buy the merc edition of btech when it hits a decent discount, since I no longer have to budget for Biomutant.
I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Reposting in this thead because it's generally applicable:
Emma Gonzalez is a youth activist you've probably heard of.
Edgy memes definitely go under "racist jokes" and "racist icons" in the pyramid. The alt right is a movement and movements go through what are called "purity spirals." Movements don't tolerate dissent, so the only way to stand out is to be more pure, more hardcore and extreme in the beliefs than everyone else, which then becomes normal so people have to become even more extreme, and so on. That's the process of radicalization of movements, and THQNordic (among others) has definitely been encouraging this.
A decade or so ago this phenomenon was known as a slippery slope
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I think 'slippery slope' turned into more of a description of the fallacy that something will inevitably lead to terribleness. "If we let TEH GAYS marry, then people will be marrying their dogs!" kinds of crap which doesn't really happen. Purity spirals and radicalization meanwhile are things that we are seeing happening right now.
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
So what you are saying is that I should buy their Rome game and more Stellaris.
I have all the Stellaris and Cities DLC.
At one point, even though I have zero interest in it, I even bought Crusader Kings on sale on sheer principle.
I think 'slippery slope' turned into more of a description of the fallacy that something will inevitably lead to terribleness. "If we let TEH GAYS marry, then people will be marrying their dogs!" kinds of crap which doesn't really happen. Purity spirals and radicalization meanwhile are things that we are seeing happening right now.
Radicalization is pretty well studied and doesn't have much to do with "if this happens, what is to stop this slightly worse thing from happening" and more just "X causally leads to Y."
I think 'slippery slope' turned into more of a description of the fallacy that something will inevitably lead to terribleness. "If we let TEH GAYS marry, then people will be marrying their dogs!" kinds of crap which doesn't really happen. Purity spirals and radicalization meanwhile are things that we are seeing happening right now.
Radicalization is pretty well studied and doesn't have much to do with "if this happens, what is to stop this slightly worse thing from happening" and more just "X causally leads to Y."
That's not what the pyramid portrays, and if it does, "indifference causally leads to mass murder" would be startling and fascinating.
I have been burned before on this forum making slippery slope arguments because people were keen to point out that it was always a fallacy. My secondary gain here is seeing this particular slippery slope argument prove that every slippery slope isn't a fallacy.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
He also said "subscribe to PewDiePie" during his livestream of the entire thing.
Fucking hell.
"Subscribe to PewDiePie" has become a Schrodinger's Douchebag dogwhistle for the alt-right:
So we've moved on from "n-word n-word n-word" to "subscribe to PewDiePie"
Truly remarkable progress
I remember the "okay" symbol's meaning changing to "white power". Is that still a thing?
This got lost in the thread, but the shooter flashed this symbol in court today supposedly.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
It's a pyramid, not a slippery slope. The bottom layers support the top. Gamergoobers and the like support an environment that then becomes conducive to eventual stochastic terrorism, even if most of them aren't doing it. Without the support structure, the higher (worse) levels cannot exist.
It's a pyramid, not a slippery slope. The bottom layers support the top. Gamergoobers and the like support an environment that then becomes conducive to eventual stochastic terrorism, even if most of them aren't doing it. Without the support structure, the higher (worse) levels cannot exist.
I think it's both, because a slippery slope implies inevitability in ways that pyramids do not and is more useful to your initial argument. The bricks in a pyramid do support the upper layers, but they don't migrate upward themselves. Moreover, to destroy the pyramid, you must remove the top layers first, lest you be crushed by them while assaulting the foundation.
But it's your argument; I was just trying to make a petty point that only matters to me. I don't believe you are incorrect; I just couldn't help myself.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's a pyramid, not a slippery slope. The bottom layers support the top. Gamergoobers and the like support an environment that then becomes conducive to eventual stochastic terrorism, even if most of them aren't doing it. Without the support structure, the higher (worse) levels cannot exist.
Possibility x time = certainty. Which is kind of how stochastic terrorism as a concept works anyways. The existence of a layer makes it easier to people to move to the next, and with enough time some of them will. Which makes a pyramid structure rather apt, actually.
Indifference means the more openly bigoted people get to operate more freely. The more openly bigoted but not actively violent people provide the reasoning for the ones that do use violence.
In the NZ shooting thread I posted that people will cling to any excuse to avoid putting any blame on the political right. Frankie is the absolute poster boy for that behavior. Excuses and deflections after one another all to avoid saying “pew die pie engages in some shitty speech that helpsmotivate people to commit heinous acts”.
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
And holeeeeefuck are the members of those subs ever losing their minds over it. I do not envy the subs' moderators.
I think Paradox proper drew some hard lines in the sand on their own forums a few years back when the European nationalists got a little too unhinged even by the standards. I was honestly surprised to see the subreddits doing it given the attitudes. (You can't talk about alliances or multispecies empires in the Stellaris sub without getting thirty people berating you for not committing genocide, at least some of whom are doing so in complete earnest.)
It's good that it's happening though. I love Paradox's grand-strategy games, but their communities have made art forms of letting some really, really shady stuff slide for years, and I'm glad that people running at least the unofficial communities have finally gotten tired of it enough to risk the pushback they're getting. As far as trying to clean up some game communities go, I think the people picking that particular fight are in for a hell of an uphill battle.
about a year ago, the Daily Stormer's (neo-nazi blog of some repute) style guide leaked online and a few think pieces got written about it. You can find it if you google around, but suffice to say it explains with surprising lucidity the way such as humor, memes and general trolling are used to advance the cause of white supremacy
While racial slurs are allowed/recommended, not every reference to non-whites should be a slur. . . . It should not come across as genuine raging vitriol. That is a turnoff to the overwhelming majority of people... The unindoctrinated should not be able to tell if we are joking or not. This is obviously a ploy and I actually do want to gas [racial slur -sic]. But that’s neither here nor there.”
For legal reasons the guide bars writers from openly inciting violence; “however, whenever someone does something violent, it should be made light of.” The ultimate goal is to “dehumanize the enemy, to the point where people are ready to laugh at their deaths.”
the goal of all this is to normalize a pattern of thought that ultimately leads a handful of people to become such as the christchurch shooters; most people will find it ultimately harmless or even banal (at least, banal in the context of the racism we already know exists), but there's a deliberate intent behind it
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Jesus. How can you write something that vile and consider yourself good or right?
Jesus. How can you write something that vile and consider yourself good or right?
Well, we're talking the Daily Stormer there, so they are actual Hitler-worshipping Nazis who believe the wrong side won WWII. It's difficult to be more morally bankrupt and self-deluded than those oxygen thieves are.
(Though honestly, the main difference between them and a lot of the other groups discussed in this thread is that they're comfortable saying the quiet part out loud instead of merely implying behind layers of jussajoakbro.)
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Most edgy memes using alt right terms are, yes. Once you make joking about something acceptable and not shocking, it's a shorter path to the rest from there. It's also a common deflection tool. It's dead serious until someone calls them on it then it's not.
Same way that being racist or alt right or *whatever* is suddenly always "a term slapped on everyone". Its a meme deliberately crafted to deflect blame, AMD way too many people buy it.
The rest are just regular ol racist. Or sexist or whatever the flavor of bullshit happens to be.
Is every single meme out there an alt-right dogwhistle? No, of course not. But there have been many, many of them created, or co-opted, by them. Don't give them the plausible deniability they crave by handwaving it away.
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From what I understand Pepe originally had nothing to do with the alt-right and that the creator of Pepe is very upset with how it was co-opted. I'm wanting to think I heard he successfully sued a guy who tried to make an alt-right Pepe childrens' book.
Also, if hatred is somehow the main form of edginess used, that becomes suspicious...
Right now we are at “not all memes are alt right recruiting tools therefore it’s wrong (hysterical) to say that alt right uses memes as a recruiting tool”
Despite the fact that alt fighters openly admit they use memes for recruiting
I mean....it's literally happening in this thread right now.
Also don't go to Twitter.
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Yeah, same boat here (although I knew about red-pilling). How come so many YouTube celebrities seem to go insane over a few years? Does YouTube fame come with slow, but inevitable psychological damage?
To bring things back on topic, this is why what THQNordic did cannot be allowed to be just buried with a meaningless nonpology. They didn't just go onto 8chan, they also engaged with and supported the sort of memes that are used to radicalize and indoctrinate.
Yes. But I also think that it was no big surprise that the “So nihilistic and edgy we hang out with Nazis” culture of the early Internet mutated into something nasty.
And that was where Pepe was born. The best that frog could ever have hoped for was to be forgotten before it all went to shit.
But now, their latest tweet has at least some people chatting about the murderous Nazis they hung out with. So maybe their mistake isn't blowing over quite as fast as I'd feared? Blech, whatever, can't exactly feel good about any of this right now.
Theyre actively encouraging this radicalization with this AMA and saying that the comments could be 'from one of our games.'
They're promoting this weird mix of anti Muslim 'crusades' memes with the deus vult garbage that leaked out of things like Crusader Kings 2 which ends up creating a bunch of super nuts anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the references to places like Antioch that the shooter referenced. It's a pipeline
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the creators are vulnerable to the same exploitable flaw in the youtube algorithm that pushes recommendations towards more and more fringe and reactionary content. there is a lot of money in courting relationships with the fringe personalities that youtube is sending their users towards for radicalization
Good news is that the Paradox game reddits are clamping down on historically based hate speech.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I was hoping that was the case as I know they had issues with people making some disturbingly racist mods for stellaris and paradox telling them to take a long walk off a short pier
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So what you are saying is that I should buy their Rome game and more Stellaris.
Well, I mean, now that I'm not buying THQ Nordic stuff any more, I do have some more money left over.
I don't really care about Imperator, but there is some Cities Skylines DLC I don't have yet.
Since they finally - long overdue - shitcanned New White Wolf, I will probably buy the merc edition of btech when it hits a decent discount, since I no longer have to budget for Biomutant.
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Edgy memes definitely go under "racist jokes" and "racist icons" in the pyramid. The alt right is a movement and movements go through what are called "purity spirals." Movements don't tolerate dissent, so the only way to stand out is to be more pure, more hardcore and extreme in the beliefs than everyone else, which then becomes normal so people have to become even more extreme, and so on. That's the process of radicalization of movements, and THQNordic (among others) has definitely been encouraging this.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I have all the Stellaris and Cities DLC.
At one point, even though I have zero interest in it, I even bought Crusader Kings on sale on sheer principle.
Radicalization is pretty well studied and doesn't have much to do with "if this happens, what is to stop this slightly worse thing from happening" and more just "X causally leads to Y."
That's not what the pyramid portrays, and if it does, "indifference causally leads to mass murder" would be startling and fascinating.
I have been burned before on this forum making slippery slope arguments because people were keen to point out that it was always a fallacy. My secondary gain here is seeing this particular slippery slope argument prove that every slippery slope isn't a fallacy.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
This got lost in the thread, but the shooter flashed this symbol in court today supposedly.
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I think it's both, because a slippery slope implies inevitability in ways that pyramids do not and is more useful to your initial argument. The bricks in a pyramid do support the upper layers, but they don't migrate upward themselves. Moreover, to destroy the pyramid, you must remove the top layers first, lest you be crushed by them while assaulting the foundation.
But it's your argument; I was just trying to make a petty point that only matters to me. I don't believe you are incorrect; I just couldn't help myself.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Possibility x time = certainty. Which is kind of how stochastic terrorism as a concept works anyways. The existence of a layer makes it easier to people to move to the next, and with enough time some of them will. Which makes a pyramid structure rather apt, actually.
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And holeeeeefuck are the members of those subs ever losing their minds over it. I do not envy the subs' moderators.
I think Paradox proper drew some hard lines in the sand on their own forums a few years back when the European nationalists got a little too unhinged even by the standards. I was honestly surprised to see the subreddits doing it given the attitudes. (You can't talk about alliances or multispecies empires in the Stellaris sub without getting thirty people berating you for not committing genocide, at least some of whom are doing so in complete earnest.)
It's good that it's happening though. I love Paradox's grand-strategy games, but their communities have made art forms of letting some really, really shady stuff slide for years, and I'm glad that people running at least the unofficial communities have finally gotten tired of it enough to risk the pushback they're getting. As far as trying to clean up some game communities go, I think the people picking that particular fight are in for a hell of an uphill battle.
For legal reasons the guide bars writers from openly inciting violence; “however, whenever someone does something violent, it should be made light of.” The ultimate goal is to “dehumanize the enemy, to the point where people are ready to laugh at their deaths.”
the goal of all this is to normalize a pattern of thought that ultimately leads a handful of people to become such as the christchurch shooters; most people will find it ultimately harmless or even banal (at least, banal in the context of the racism we already know exists), but there's a deliberate intent behind it
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Well, we're talking the Daily Stormer there, so they are actual Hitler-worshipping Nazis who believe the wrong side won WWII. It's difficult to be more morally bankrupt and self-deluded than those oxygen thieves are.
(Though honestly, the main difference between them and a lot of the other groups discussed in this thread is that they're comfortable saying the quiet part out loud instead of merely implying behind layers of jussajoakbro.)
History and culture are taught in a very sanitized, forgiving manner. This kind of thing is not remarkable except in that you're learning about it.