Jonathan Swan of Axios: Scoop from @alexi: Through a Trump admin leak, the House Oversight Committee has obtained documents related to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's security clearances that the Trump administration refused to provide.
Its Axios, so I'd be willing to bet this is an intentional leak of something comparatively innocuous to what they really don't want Oversight to see.
BREAKING: The House Oversight and Reform Committee is demanding 10 years of Donald Trump’s financial records from an accounting firm, according to two Republicans on the panel
Politico is a news agency.
They don't want just the tax returns. They want all of it.
BREAKING: The House Oversight and Reform Committee is demanding 10 years of Donald Trump’s financial records from an accounting firm, according to two Republicans on the panel
Politico is a news agency.
They don't want just the tax returns. They want all of it.
The Democrat-led committee asked Mazars USA, a tax and accounting firm, for documents this month related to Trump’s personal finances, with a particular focus on his failed bid to purchase the Buffalo Bills before he became president.
In other, more salient words "with a particular focus on allegations of bank fraud and tax evasion."
Below the fold:
It reflects an effort by the committee, under Chairman Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), to corroborate aspects of former Trump attorney and fixer Michael Cohen’s testimony before the panel last month.
Cohen told lawmakers that Trump inflated his personal net worth as he sought to buy the NFL team. He also claimed that Trump sought to reduce his tax burden by deflating the value of certain assets.
What does it mean for them to be demanding this stuff? Do they have the authority?
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
It sounds like the committee sent a letter asking for the documents. If they don't receive the documents, they will no doubt use their subpoena power to get them anyway.
What does it mean for them to be demanding this stuff? Do they have the authority?
Of course, they can ask for and if necessary subpoena anything. Congress is the oversight body of our government, not the DOJ. The DOJ investigates crime, not ethics or conflicts of interest.
BREAKING: The House Oversight and Reform Committee is demanding 10 years of Donald Trump’s financial records from an accounting firm, according to two Republicans on the panel
Politico is a news agency.
They don't want just the tax returns. They want all of it.
EDIT: analysis:
I don't see a request for tax returns in here, although it may turn up. This is more checking Cohen's testimony regarding Trump's loose accounting practices, specifically focused on inflating/deflating his wealth as needed, depending on if he's bragging or paying taxes.
Watch him try to claim executive privilege over stuff he did 5+ years before becoming president.
He’s already pseudo claimed it for stuff that happened during the campaign, I imagine he’ll try and do it for tax information and school records and anything else he doesn’t want getting out.
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Technically it's Ways and Means, not Judiciary, but using an arcane law the chairman just requested from the IRS/Treasury six years of tax returns for the President and it seems like all his businesses as well.
Cite is Ari Melber on MSNBC.
Dems turning up the oversight to 11 in the wake of Mueller ending.
Technically it's Ways and Means, not Judiciary, but using an arcane law the chairman just requested from the IRS/Treasury six years of tax returns for the President and it seems like all his businesses as well.
Cite is Ari Melber on MSNBC.
Dems turning up the oversight to 11 in the wake of Mueller ending.
Oh wow. That's a useful law (it literally says Ways and Means can demand the financial records of any person or business and the Treasury department has no option but to hand them over. Per linked article... basically explicitly for the purpose of rooting out conflicts of interest).
Please excuse me while I pour a tall glass of schadenfreude.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
And something important to note, this isn't a law that directs Trump to release his tax returns, that he can wilfully defy and everyone turns a blind eye like every other law he's wilfully defied.
This is the Treasury that is compelled to release these returns, and if they don't, they are breaking the law.
It's one thing for Trump's cronies to not hold him accountable for breaking the law and talk in vague statements. It's another thing for them to directly do it themselves.
And something important to note, this isn't a law that directs Trump to release his tax returns, that he can wilfully defy and everyone turns a blind eye like every other law he's wilfully defied.
This is the Treasury that is compelled to release these returns, and if they don't, they are breaking the law.
It's one thing for Trump's cronies to not hold him accountable for breaking the law and talk in vague statements. It's another thing for them to directly do it themselves.
I imagine all records related to anyone with the last name Trump were destroyed within a month of him taking the oath of office.
And something important to note, this isn't a law that directs Trump to release his tax returns, that he can wilfully defy and everyone turns a blind eye like every other law he's wilfully defied.
This is the Treasury that is compelled to release these returns, and if they don't, they are breaking the law.
It's one thing for Trump's cronies to not hold him accountable for breaking the law and talk in vague statements. It's another thing for them to directly do it themselves.
I imagine all records related to anyone with the last name Trump were destroyed within a month of him taking the oath of office.
Technically it's Ways and Means, not Judiciary, but using an arcane law the chairman just requested from the IRS/Treasury six years of tax returns for the President and it seems like all his businesses as well.
Cite is Ari Melber on MSNBC.
Dems turning up the oversight to 11 in the wake of Mueller ending.
Kinda interesting that the Mueller investigation coming to an end in such an unspectacular way has the potential to be one of the worst things that could happen to him. Because while the investigation was running, next to nothing was leaking out into the public space, and Democrats were very cautious about what they did and didn't pursue.
Now? The gloves are off. There's no ongoing investigation that they don't know the details of for them to potentially accidentally interfere with. And if the most recent leaks are true, that the investigators are saying it's way worse than what Barr and Co tried to get people to believe (and according to polling, didn't), that opens up even more avenues of attack.
Basically while the Mueller investigation was in progress, Democrats felt they had to step lightly. Now? Not so much.
Technically it's Ways and Means, not Judiciary, but using an arcane law the chairman just requested from the IRS/Treasury six years of tax returns for the President and it seems like all his businesses as well.
Cite is Ari Melber on MSNBC.
Dems turning up the oversight to 11 in the wake of Mueller ending.
Kinda interesting that the Mueller investigation coming to an end in such an unspectacular way has the potential to be one of the worst things that could happen to him. Because while the investigation was running, next to nothing was leaking out into the public space, and Democrats were very cautious about what they did and didn't pursue.
Now? The gloves are off. There's no ongoing investigation that they don't know the details of for them to potentially accidentally interfere with. And if the most recent leaks are true, that the investigators are saying it's way worse than what Barr and Co tried to get people to believe (and according to polling, didn't), that opens up even more avenues of attack.
Basically while the Mueller investigation was in progress, Democrats felt they had to step lightly. Now? Not so much.
While the Mueller investigation was in progress Republicans also held all the gavels. This was basically announced before the new Congress sat. It's just that doing these things takes time when you want to be sure you win the court challenge. Also, passing other legislation as well as turning the damn government back on.
So I'm kind of curious, is there any reason for one of these committees to not subpoena people by default?
A number.
1) you look less partisan.
2) it really doesnt cost you much time
3) it potentially creates felonies in stupid people. (Destroying records you have a resonable belief might be subpoenaed)
4) its always better to be on good terms with subjects of investigation. People who have documents or testimony that is relevant may not be targets and so being on good terms with them makes them more likely to produce information
5) it hides your motives with respect to number 4 which can get people youre targeting to give up info they might not otherwise
Has this been mentioned? Because while it flew under the radar, we probably should have known something like this was going on:
I'd have been surprised, nay shocked, if this kind of fuckery had NOT happened.
At this point, the only two things that would shock me, is Trump not doing something brazenly unethical and for his own selfish reasons, or him doing something competently after thinking it through.
I fully expect impulsive stupidity and obvious conflicts of interest to be the baseline for almost all his decisions.
EDIT: Apparently it's even worse. Not only did he nominate this guy, he tried to fast track it, even over Barr. That's right, he put someone protecting his tax returns over someone protecting his criminal liabilities. Again, impulsive stupidity, and obvious conflicts of interests. Fuuuuuuuck.
So I'm kind of curious, is there any reason for one of these committees to not subpoena people by default?
Pod Saves guys went over this, if Congress doesn't make good faith efforts to request documents before the subpoena it can be successfully challenged in court.
So I'm kind of curious, is there any reason for one of these committees to not subpoena people by default?
Pod Saves guys went over this, if Congress doesn't make good faith efforts to request documents before the subpoena it can be successfully challenged in court.
Also why it took them so long to get the request out; they needed to carefully word it so to be as difficult to challenge as possible.
So I'm kind of curious, is there any reason for one of these committees to not subpoena people by default?
Pod Saves guys went over this, if Congress doesn't make good faith efforts to request documents before the subpoena it can be successfully challenged in court.
Also why it took them so long to get the request out; they needed to carefully word it so to be as difficult to challenge as possible.
Yep. Trump has something like a 6% win rate in the Courts so far, when typically Administrations win north of 70% of regulatory challenges. The House isn't going to miss crossing a T and having to start over.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
So today's the deadline for the IRS commissioner to turn over Trump's taxes to the chair of Ways and Means, though the Treasury Department is being pretty quiet thus far.
So today's the deadline for the IRS commissioner to turn over Trump's taxes to the chair of Ways and Means, though the Treasury Department is being pretty quiet thus far.
I really hope they do without a fuss. Yet there's this morbid part of me that is curious as to what will happen if they don't.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
No, Mnuchin, banging gravel is what you’re supposed to do. Waters has a gavel.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
To be extremely charitable, she was kind of setting a trap for him.
Of course, he walked right into it by not listening to what she was saying because he felt he knew better than her. And saying he would never be back was... not wise.
Mnuchin is in a terrible spot. There's specifically a law stating he has to turn over Trump's tax documents and the White House has no actual legal standing to stop it (though they'll try), so he's basically in the position of having to stall as much as possible before the hammer drops. He's probably looking at jail time if he doesn't do it and Trump will absolutely shitcan him if he does.
Honestly, if I was him, I would just quit and get as far as fucking possible from that situation.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Mnuchin is in a terrible spot. There's specifically a law stating he has to turn over Trump's tax documents and the White House has no actual legal standing to stop it (though they'll try), so he's basically in the position of having to stall as much as possible before the hammer drops. He's probably looking at jail time if he doesn't do it and Trump will absolutely shitcan him if he does.
Honestly, if I was him, I would just quit and get as far as fucking possible from that situation.
I'm not sure how he thought that was going to go well for him.
This is why you don't deploy sarcasm against people you don't have power over. They will just take you seriously and now you have nothing to do but try and scuttle backwards.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Mnuchin doesn't understand the whole "time and place" thing when it comes to sarcasm. When you're testifying, it isn't the time. Because what you say matters, and is literal.
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Its Axios, so I'd be willing to bet this is an intentional leak of something comparatively innocuous to what they really don't want Oversight to see.
Politico is a news agency.
They don't want just the tax returns. They want all of it.
In other, more salient words "with a particular focus on allegations of bank fraud and tax evasion."
Below the fold:
Do better, politico.
Of course, they can ask for and if necessary subpoena anything. Congress is the oversight body of our government, not the DOJ. The DOJ investigates crime, not ethics or conflicts of interest.
Here's the actual letter:
https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/documents/2019-03-20.EEC to Wahba-Mazars.pdf
EDIT: analysis:
I don't see a request for tax returns in here, although it may turn up. This is more checking Cohen's testimony regarding Trump's loose accounting practices, specifically focused on inflating/deflating his wealth as needed, depending on if he's bragging or paying taxes.
I believe you mean potential, possible executive privilege that he may or not invoke so can't comply, y'know, just in case he does, maybe.
What are the limits anyway, anything the president has ever done in his life? Best not to find out!
He’s already pseudo claimed it for stuff that happened during the campaign, I imagine he’ll try and do it for tax information and school records and anything else he doesn’t want getting out.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
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Cite is Ari Melber on MSNBC.
Dems turning up the oversight to 11 in the wake of Mueller ending.
Oh wow. That's a useful law (it literally says Ways and Means can demand the financial records of any person or business and the Treasury department has no option but to hand them over. Per linked article... basically explicitly for the purpose of rooting out conflicts of interest).
Please excuse me while I pour a tall glass of schadenfreude.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
This is the Treasury that is compelled to release these returns, and if they don't, they are breaking the law.
It's one thing for Trump's cronies to not hold him accountable for breaking the law and talk in vague statements. It's another thing for them to directly do it themselves.
I imagine all records related to anyone with the last name Trump were destroyed within a month of him taking the oath of office.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I doubt the IRS has destroyed any records.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Kinda interesting that the Mueller investigation coming to an end in such an unspectacular way has the potential to be one of the worst things that could happen to him. Because while the investigation was running, next to nothing was leaking out into the public space, and Democrats were very cautious about what they did and didn't pursue.
Now? The gloves are off. There's no ongoing investigation that they don't know the details of for them to potentially accidentally interfere with. And if the most recent leaks are true, that the investigators are saying it's way worse than what Barr and Co tried to get people to believe (and according to polling, didn't), that opens up even more avenues of attack.
Basically while the Mueller investigation was in progress, Democrats felt they had to step lightly. Now? Not so much.
While the Mueller investigation was in progress Republicans also held all the gavels. This was basically announced before the new Congress sat. It's just that doing these things takes time when you want to be sure you win the court challenge. Also, passing other legislation as well as turning the damn government back on.
It makes an honest mistake into a felony.
A number.
1) you look less partisan.
2) it really doesnt cost you much time
3) it potentially creates felonies in stupid people. (Destroying records you have a resonable belief might be subpoenaed)
4) its always better to be on good terms with subjects of investigation. People who have documents or testimony that is relevant may not be targets and so being on good terms with them makes them more likely to produce information
5) it hides your motives with respect to number 4 which can get people youre targeting to give up info they might not otherwise
Ilya Marritz is a reporter for WNYC
I'd have been surprised, nay shocked, if this kind of fuckery had NOT happened.
At this point, the only two things that would shock me, is Trump not doing something brazenly unethical and for his own selfish reasons, or him doing something competently after thinking it through.
I fully expect impulsive stupidity and obvious conflicts of interest to be the baseline for almost all his decisions.
EDIT: Apparently it's even worse. Not only did he nominate this guy, he tried to fast track it, even over Barr. That's right, he put someone protecting his tax returns over someone protecting his criminal liabilities. Again, impulsive stupidity, and obvious conflicts of interests. Fuuuuuuuck.
Maggie Haberman is a NYT columnist.
Pod Saves guys went over this, if Congress doesn't make good faith efforts to request documents before the subpoena it can be successfully challenged in court.
Also why it took them so long to get the request out; they needed to carefully word it so to be as difficult to challenge as possible.
Yep. Trump has something like a 6% win rate in the Courts so far, when typically Administrations win north of 70% of regulatory challenges. The House isn't going to miss crossing a T and having to start over.
I really hope they do without a fuss. Yet there's this morbid part of me that is curious as to what will happen if they don't.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
The key word here is try:
NBC News is a news agency.
I'm not sure how he thought that was going to go well for him.
Of course, he walked right into it by not listening to what she was saying because he felt he knew better than her. And saying he would never be back was... not wise.
Mnuchin is in a terrible spot. There's specifically a law stating he has to turn over Trump's tax documents and the White House has no actual legal standing to stop it (though they'll try), so he's basically in the position of having to stall as much as possible before the hammer drops. He's probably looking at jail time if he doesn't do it and Trump will absolutely shitcan him if he does.
Honestly, if I was him, I would just quit and get as far as fucking possible from that situation.
It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
This is why you don't deploy sarcasm against people you don't have power over. They will just take you seriously and now you have nothing to do but try and scuttle backwards.