Congressional Investigations Into Trump White House

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  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The thing is, pursuing all this and getting people all charged to the fullest extent would not result in trading Trump for Pence. It would result in basically going down the chain of succession until you hit either a Democrat or a Republican who was not involved in the 2016 election in any way.

    Pelosi would be POTUS if both Trump and Pence were impeached. Speaker of the House follows VP in succession.

    Which pretty much guarantees they won't both be impeached, since they need Republican Senate votes!

    She could temporarily step down in favor of a suitable R. Didn't something like that happen with Nixon?

    Not exactly. In the window between Agnew resigning and Ford being appointed, Speaker Carl Albert (D-OK) would have succeeded after Nixon's departure, and said that if that did happen, he would appoint a Republican as Vice President and then resign, since the nation voted a Republican into the White House. (Of course, 1972 and 2016 are very different elections.)

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    The White House is just going to ignore Judiciary and Oversight as much as they can. This is all going to end up in court.

    Kaitlan Collins of CNN: White House officials are preparing to push back on Chairman Nadler's expansive document request to preserve what they say is the president's right to confidentiality. Part of that will likely include an effort to limit # of documents they have to produce from his time in office.

    They also just outright refused Cummings requests on Kushner and security clearance.

    Manu Raju of CNN: WH rejects Elijah Cummings’ request for information about specific details about the security clearance process and Kushner’s clearance - and Cummings says he will now decide next steps. Here’s the WH letter:

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The thing is, pursuing all this and getting people all charged to the fullest extent would not result in trading Trump for Pence. It would result in basically going down the chain of succession until you hit either a Democrat or a Republican who was not involved in the 2016 election in any way.

    Pelosi would be POTUS if both Trump and Pence were impeached. Speaker of the House follows VP in succession.

    Which pretty much guarantees they won't both be impeached, since they need Republican Senate votes!

    She could temporarily step down in favor of a suitable R. Didn't something like that happen with Nixon?

    Not exactly. In the window between Agnew resigning and Ford being appointed, Speaker Carl Albert (D-OK) would have succeeded after Nixon's departure, and said that if that did happen, he would appoint a Republican as Vice President and then resign, since the nation voted a Republican into the White House. (Of course, 1972 and 2016 are very different elections.)

    Knew I was getting some details wrong. My broader point, though, is that it may be necessary to do something similar to get Rs to vote for impeachment (they'd presumably be more likely to do so if whoever got the big chair was an R), and that it might be worth it. Assuming no pardons for Trump and co.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The R's don't fear Trump. The R's fear Trump's voters. Impeaching him doesn't make those voters go away.

    Until you remove or mitigate the threat of those voters, an impeachment vote will not pass.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The White House is just going to ignore Judiciary and Oversight as much as they can. This is all going to end up in court.

    Kaitlan Collins of CNN: White House officials are preparing to push back on Chairman Nadler's expansive document request to preserve what they say is the president's right to confidentiality. Part of that will likely include an effort to limit # of documents they have to produce from his time in office.

    They also just outright refused Cummings requests on Kushner and security clearance.

    Manu Raju of CNN: WH rejects Elijah Cummings’ request for information about specific details about the security clearance process and Kushner’s clearance - and Cummings says he will now decide next steps. Here’s the WH letter:

    You get a subpoena! You get a subpoena!

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The White House is just going to ignore Judiciary and Oversight as much as they can. This is all going to end up in court.

    Kaitlan Collins of CNN: White House officials are preparing to push back on Chairman Nadler's expansive document request to preserve what they say is the president's right to confidentiality. Part of that will likely include an effort to limit # of documents they have to produce from his time in office.

    They also just outright refused Cummings requests on Kushner and security clearance.

    Manu Raju of CNN: WH rejects Elijah Cummings’ request for information about specific details about the security clearance process and Kushner’s clearance - and Cummings says he will now decide next steps. Here’s the WH letter:

    So they reject the easy way and now get the hard way.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The White House is just going to ignore Judiciary and Oversight as much as they can. This is all going to end up in court.

    Kaitlan Collins of CNN: White House officials are preparing to push back on Chairman Nadler's expansive document request to preserve what they say is the president's right to confidentiality. Part of that will likely include an effort to limit # of documents they have to produce from his time in office.

    They also just outright refused Cummings requests on Kushner and security clearance.

    Manu Raju of CNN: WH rejects Elijah Cummings’ request for information about specific details about the security clearance process and Kushner’s clearance - and Cummings says he will now decide next steps. Here’s the WH letter:

    As an aside, Cummings literally wrote the update to the Presidential Records Act in 2014 to include electronic documents.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Imagine writing on a piece of paper that the chairman of the house committee on oversight doesn't have the right to request records for the purpose of oversight.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Imagine writing on a piece of paper that the chairman of the house committee on oversight doesn't have the right to request records for the purpose of oversight.
    No kidding.

    It also speaks volumes that this was literally just a pleasant "can we see these papers?" It was the nice route being taken, so now the gloves come off. Which I can't wait for.

    Ultimately the White House is stalling, because the clock is ever-ticking on this term.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    So it seems like the House is becoming increasingly bold in their attacks on Trump by the day - what's the end game here? Impeachment won't pass the Senate with the information we have right now. Are the Dems just putting it out there early to warm the public up to the idea? Are they sure they really want to trade Trump for Pence? Or is all of this really just posturing for 2020?

    I know it seems weird after the last decade or more of the Republican party, but not every action taken by an American party is an act taken solely to win power in some way. Sometimes politicians are actually taking their constitutional duties seriously and not only trying to get power.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    So it seems like the House is becoming increasingly bold in their attacks on Trump by the day - what's the end game here? Impeachment won't pass the Senate with the information we have right now. Are the Dems just putting it out there early to warm the public up to the idea? Are they sure they really want to trade Trump for Pence? Or is all of this really just posturing for 2020?

    I know it seems weird after the last decade or more of the Republican party, but not every action taken by an American party is an act taken solely to win power in some way. Sometimes politicians are actually taking their constitutional duties seriously and not only trying to get power.

    I mean everyone of the investigations into Trump is a valid one at this point, shit if any we still don't have enough from what he's openly admitted to doing. This is what the GOP should have been doing two fucking years ago.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The thing is, pursuing all this and getting people all charged to the fullest extent would not result in trading Trump for Pence. It would result in basically going down the chain of succession until you hit either a Democrat or a Republican who was not involved in the 2016 election in any way.

    Pelosi would be POTUS if both Trump and Pence were impeached. Speaker of the House follows VP in succession.

    Which pretty much guarantees they won't both be impeached, since they need Republican Senate votes!

    Maybe not?

    I mean, if we do find the megaton that finally, truely breaks Trump's base, the GOP will be looking at a scenario where they are going to, in the Britsh parlance, get proper fucked in 2020, and the choice will be leave Trump in charge, get absolutely devastated and find out if Cohen was right about what he'll do when he loses. Or endure President Pelosi for what will likely be a year or less and get someone else on the ballot who hasn't turned into a radioactive face-eating parasite, get absolutely wrecked but hopefully still have 41 seats in the Senate.

    While I would never trust the GoP to do the right thing, I do trust them to do the most shamelessly selfish thing to survive, and in this scenario that would be to stab Trump in the back for the slim chance they are still a national party in 2024.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    That megaton does not exist.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Not that it'll happen, but I'm sure the Pubs would love having Pelosi as president going into 2020. It's exactly the kind of thing that would galvanize the Republicans in the face of everyone turning on Trump.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    That megaton does not exist.

    I'd imagine it absolutely exists and is currently residing in a highly guarded area in Russia. Trump and the gop may not have any record of his communications with Putin, but Russia certainly does

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    That megaton does not exist.

    I'd imagine it absolutely exists and is currently residing in a highly guarded area in Russia. Trump and the gop may not have any record of his communications with Putin, but Russia certainly does

    Syphon's point is there is nothing that can be found discovered or disclosed that would shake Trump from the base of the GOP. We could have on video proof of him bowing to Putin and putting Russia's interest over our own and that would not harm him with his base.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    As we saw with the shutdown and the Trump's approval ratings subsequent bounce back, his base does not give a shit so long as they're not personally impacted. (And even then they'll whip up some mighty find cognitive disonnance to shift the blame or excuse it.)

    It took 35 days of shut down to drop Trump's approval from like 42% to 37% and it pretty quickly bounced back after it was over.

    Trump would basically have to go door to door in rural America, setting people's homes on fire, for him to truly lose his base.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    The thing is, pursuing all this and getting people all charged to the fullest extent would not result in trading Trump for Pence. It would result in basically going down the chain of succession until you hit either a Democrat or a Republican who was not involved in the 2016 election in any way.

    Pelosi would be POTUS if both Trump and Pence were impeached. Speaker of the House follows VP in succession.

    Which pretty much guarantees they won't both be impeached, since they need Republican Senate votes!

    Maybe not?

    I mean, if we do find the megaton that finally, truely breaks Trump's base, the GOP will be looking at a scenario where they are going to, in the Britsh parlance, get proper fucked in 2020, and the choice will be leave Trump in charge, get absolutely devastated and find out if Cohen was right about what he'll do when he loses. Or endure President Pelosi for what will likely be a year or less and get someone else on the ballot who hasn't turned into a radioactive face-eating parasite, get absolutely wrecked but hopefully still have 41 seats in the Senate.

    While I would never trust the GoP to do the right thing, I do trust them to do the most shamelessly selfish thing to survive, and in this scenario that would be to stab Trump in the back for the slim chance they are still a national party in 2024.

    2020 is also when Trump is up for reelection. I’m not sure what electoral scenario could have the Senate Republicans losing in an absolute landslide so that the Senate has the 2/3 majority needed to remove the President from office, but also Trump wins reelection.

    Maybe incompetent Russian hackers?

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    yeah i'd put that scenario at just under "howard schultz gets the dem nom" odds

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  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Based on what happened in Texas, I'd say it could happen if Beto got the nom and lost.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    yeah i'd put that scenario at just under "howard schultz gets the dem nom" odds

    After Trump ran the GOP primary from poll-to-poll, partially due to the sheer number of candidates, I wouldn't put Schultz' chances at zero just yet.

    So when do we find out just how many subpoenas are getting fired out of a cannon at the White House over their "We're pretty sure Congressional oversight is optional" thing?

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    yeah i'd put that scenario at just under "howard schultz gets the dem nom" odds

    After Trump ran the GOP primary from poll-to-poll, partially due to the sheer number of candidates, I wouldn't put Schultz' chances at zero just yet.

    So when do we find out just how many subpoenas are getting fired out of a cannon at the White House over their "We're pretty sure Congressional oversight is optional" thing?

    They need to have more subpoena cannons forged first.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    does anyone have a link to sarah sanders response to this where she basically screamed "democrats are killing live babies!"

    Just because I caught it while reading on my comp at work and now I think it has to have been some kind of exhaustion-induced nightmare

    Prohass on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Prohass wrote: »
    does anyone have a link to sarah sanders response to this where she basically screamed "democrats are killing live babies!"

    Just because I caught it while reading on my comp at work and now I think it has to have been some kind of exhaustion-induced nightmare

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/wh-nadler-dems-harassing-trump-distract-socialist-agenda-killing-babies

    Sorry. It is a nightmare, but we're all living it

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Deflector screens to maximum!

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    That megaton does not exist.

    Yes, we get that the white supremacist, homophobic, xenophobic, right-wing, militant, warped-Christian, gun-totting, sexist, fascist will back Trump to hell or high water. No one is disputing that. What people are disputing is this defeatist notion, that that toxic group has sway in enough places to lock things in place for their shitty ideology. They don't, there are only a few places where their numbers and reliable turnout is barely enough to outright lock out everyone else. A few more, where they can afford a few mistakes, but if too many happen, some non-republican can barely squeak in. Off the top of my head, most are seats races are dealing with setup where the hardcore crowd that eats up Trump's shit, sits well under 40%.

    What republicans are going to be asking themselves, as these investigations drag on. Is not, "are Trump and his people happy with me?" It's going to be, "can I survive the next election with just there support? If not, how much of shit do I have to give about this group mounting a successful primary challenge because if I survive the primary, these losers will either back me, stay home or throw a vote to some lunatic fringe right party that will never win." Like Foefaller said, they act in self interest and there is a scenario, where plenty of them will turn on Trump because kissing his ass, isn't what's best for this ability at winning the next election. Hell, I'm curious to see where some of these investigations lead because it could do a real number on the far right's ability to successfully primary people. I would not be surprised if a ton of powerbrokers on the right ended up in jail because they finally get caught pulling a ton of illegal shit. If they don't have any money, they can't fund any campaigns and if they're in jail, they don't get to jump on social media to stir shit up.

    I mean, 2018 pretty much showed that there are moderate republican, republican sympathetic independents & what passes for true independent have their limits. It also showed that a ton of apolitical types, also reached a limit to how much of this shit they could stand. Worth keeping in mind that going into 2018's elections, we had what is considered a fairly solid economy that people gave Trump credit for (pretty sure he gets zero credit based on my understanding of economics). He also had a Congress where both chambers shielded him from investigations and having to oppose popular legislation he didn't like. Also that Congress went to great lengths strongly insisting that he was really wearing clothes, that only smart people could see, while strutting about naked with a giant smug shit eating grin on his face, as he committed several unforced errors. Things are only going to get worse for Trump from here on because the House is doing it's fucking job, by providing oversight and looking into all the red flags. The democrats already said "fuck that noise, punching this fucker in his shit eating griining face," when he proceeded to fuckup with his partial shut-down instead of trying to cover his sorry ass. I suspect they'll force him to either sign popular legislation he opposes or have to own up to vetoing it, it'll be hard, but I think they'll find a few spots where McConnell won't be able to cover for him.

    Edit: I just don't see how this probe is going to magically help Trump. Like I strongly suspect, that if it could help Trump, the GOP wouldn't have spent the last two years using every trick they could to make it look like they took these concerns seriously. I mean they at would have let them get cred for doing their job and not letting a criminal president run rampant. They covered for his ass because there is damaging information that they didn't want to get out. Again, they didn't keep it contained because they see Trump's base as the end all be all to their continued successes, that group is awful and A-OK with their gun running roughshod over everyone, until they get trampled by his shit. What they were concerned about, was how that would play with everyone else that isn't Trump's base because many of them do still have to continue to give a shit about people that don't want a King Trump, that does as he pleases.

    Mill on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Guys, this is not a thread to talk about elections. Knock it off.

    You can't have run out of on-topic things to say on page 2.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud my moons are good moons Registered User regular
    If there is a Presidential Right To Confidentiality then they can just troll release completely redacted documents. That doesn't mean they DON'T release the documents at all! Why are we not court testing all of these executive overreaches? Or maybe I guess we are in fact court testing all of them constantly.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    That announcement is from yesterday so I imagine it’ll be a bit still.

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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud my moons are good moons Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    That announcement is from yesterday so I imagine it’ll be a bit still.
    ....good point

    Quid
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    I think the reality is that these probes will merely confirm many of the things that have been rumored already. I don't think there is a megaton that we haven't heard about yet, either because it didn't happen or because no one who knows about it has talked. If the House comes forward with a report that says "It's true, all of it, here's the evidence." I don't think that leads to a successful impeachment, though perhaps the House will initiate it. The problem is that Trump is very popular among GOP voters, not just his "base," and they don't care that he did these things. And the GOP senators are terrified of those voters.

    Zek on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I think the reality is that these probes will merely confirm many of the things that have been rumored already. I don't think there is a megaton that we haven't heard about yet, either because it didn't happen or because no one who knows about it has talked. If the House comes forward with a report that says "It's true, all of it, here's the evidence." I don't think that leads to a successful impeachment, though perhaps the House will initiate it. The problem is that Trump is very popular among GOP voters, not just his "base," and they don't care that he did these things. And the GOP senators are terrified of those voters.

    I'll still be pretty happy with half the Cabinet sitting in prison after being fined $Teapot Dome.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Half his original Cabinet is already gone.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Half his original Cabinet is already gone.

    From Government, but not to ADX Florence. Yet.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I don't remember seeing this get talked about here. Warning: Basic Paywall.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-intelligence-panel-hires-former-racketeering-and-organized-crime-prosecutor-to-run-trump-probe/2019/03/05/2e24082a-3f6a-11e9-922c-64d6b7840b82_story.html?utm_term=.fbbf0dc8c033
    The House Intelligence Committee has hired a former federal prosecutor with a history of trying securities fraud, racketeering and international organized crime to lead its investigation of President Trump’s alleged ties to Russia, the panel announced Tuesday.

    The appointment of Daniel Goldman, who oversaw prosecutions of Russian organized crime networks during his 10 years in the office of the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, suggests that the intelligence panel’s chairman, Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), plans to scrutinize Trump’s finances and foreign contacts as he investigates whether Trump colluded with foreign governments to sway the 2016 election.
    Goldman’s experience with Russian organized crime is punctuated by a racketeering, gambling and money-laundering case he oversaw that resulted in the conviction of more than 30 people in 2014. Goldman also successfully prosecuted members of the Genovese crime family, including securing a murder conviction for its acting boss.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    It continues to be infuriating that Republicans are holding the president to a lower standard of accountability than anyone I work with.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Bloomberg are reporting that Adam Schiff has added another prosecutor to his committee’s staff, and another Daniel to boot.

    This time it’s Daniel Noble, co-chief of the complex fraud and cybercrimes unit at the US Attorney’s office in Manhattan.


    Jennifer is the White House reporter for Bloomberg News.


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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Half his original Cabinet is already gone.

    From Government, but not to ADX Florence. Yet.

    I also like to think, there is a point where, it'll be really hard for Trump and the GOP to argue he isn't abusing the power of the pardon, while also not seriously upsetting a ton of people, who realize they'd be turbo fucked if they done even a quarter of this shit. I mean, he'll throw half these fuckers under the bus to cover his ass, but I don't doubt for a second that he'll pardon some of these fuckers. Just that I imagine that there are going to be a shit ton of people facing some serous legal problems in the new few months.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I have a feeling he won't pull out the pardon card until his immediate family are indicted, but at that point he'll start throwing them out fast and loose.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    I have a feeling he won't pull out the pardon card until his immediate family are indicted, but at that point he'll start throwing them out fast and loose.

    In times past, Trump has been just as ruthless towards his family as he has been for any underling. He drove his older brother to suicide to become the heir apparent, and stripped his father of all his wealth and power to avoid a change of heart at the last minute and estate taxes. He kicked one of his grandnephews off the family medical coverage because the infant had cerebral palsy.

    Trump is a malignant narcissist. His pattern has always been to throw as many people under the bus as necessary to try to save himself. He does not view other people as other human beings. He might see his children as extensions of himself (at which point he might try to protect them), or he might see them as trophies or valuable property. If the latter, just as things, they're fair game too; they'll just be the last things tossed off the sinking ship to stay above water instead of the first.

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