I went to a Lights for Liberty rally. At a Japanese Buddhist temple. With speakers that included a Jewish/Spanish protestor from a Holocaust survivor family, a representative of a Native group that was hit by the Trail of Tears, and more.
America's history really is incredibly awful.
I was at the candle light vigil last night here in Madison, and we had a rabbi that detailed the times America turned away Jewish refugees, and talked intimately about their families holocaust story. We had a reverend/county judge that detailed the ways ICE is awful. We had age appropriate children reading the testimonials from the kids in the camps.
Also, this is a city with about 500,000 people within a 30 minute drive of the park the protest was in. There was only about 500 people at the protest. I feel like a .1% turn out for a protest against concentration camps maybe says a lot of bad things about America. The weather was great, the sunset amazing, and the park is accessible (the small parking lot for the park itself was full, but there is a parking garage a half block away) so that isn't what kept people from coming. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I fear most Americans truly dont care.
Nah it's probably that most folks have realized that protests aren't actually doing anything. We've had protests since the first day of this administration and they've done little to actually stop the horrors.
I think they've helped by way of:
Protests -> media attention -> donations -> lawsuits
Things could be much worse without groups like the ACLU and RAICES having the resources to challenge this shit at every opportunity.
I went to a Lights for Liberty rally. At a Japanese Buddhist temple. With speakers that included a Jewish/Spanish protestor from a Holocaust survivor family, a representative of a Native group that was hit by the Trail of Tears, and more.
America's history really is incredibly awful.
I was at the candle light vigil last night here in Madison, and we had a rabbi that detailed the times America turned away Jewish refugees, and talked intimately about their families holocaust story. We had a reverend/county judge that detailed the ways ICE is awful. We had age appropriate children reading the testimonials from the kids in the camps.
Also, this is a city with about 500,000 people within a 30 minute drive of the park the protest was in. There was only about 500 people at the protest. I feel like a .1% turn out for a protest against concentration camps maybe says a lot of bad things about America. The weather was great, the sunset amazing, and the park is accessible (the small parking lot for the park itself was full, but there is a parking garage a half block away) so that isn't what kept people from coming. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I fear most Americans truly dont care.
Nah it's probably that most folks have realized that protests aren't actually doing anything. We've had protests since the first day of this administration and they've done little to actually stop the horrors.
I think they've helped by way of:
Protests -> media attention -> donations -> lawsuits
Things could be much worse without groups like the ACLU and RAICES having the resources to challenge this shit at every opportunity.
That and, if things follow the path of history, it helps for resistance groups to be in touch.
Protests, like voting or hovering ominously over someone while they eat, are just one portion of the tools available to you to enact change against governments hostile to your views. As much as we hope that they can exist in a vacuum and be the only thing that needs to happen, that's only the case if the government is absolutely petrified of you. I think a lot of stories people get told about how to enact political change gloss over the need for multiple levels of approach and advocacy over a long period of time. Leads to a lot of burnout when people run into the reality rather than what they're told.
+11
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
The journalists reporting the smell also didn't help.
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
Josh Marshall thinks this is the image the admin wanted, which is easy to believe.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
Is it that they couldn't get a facade of acceptable conditions up in time... or is it that they don't even give enough of a shit to put up a false front?
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
Is it that they couldn't get a facade of acceptable conditions up in time... or is it that they don't even give enough of a shit to put up a false front?
Even with as incompetent as these chucklefucks are, I find not getting it done in time is the most unlikely option. Either they didn't give a shit, or as ebum said, they wanted this.
Cruelty is the point, and it's both porn for their base (cause you know that the MAGAchuds are getting off on this), and what they THINK will be a "deterrent" for the next group about to make the trek. Not realizing that as inhumane and needlessly mean the conditions are, for a lot of legitimate asylum seekers, it's better than what they're leaving behind.
Pence did get to ask a huddled group of women if they were being treated well, to which they nodded their heads yes, so the admin got that out of it at least. But it's pretty likely those women either a. didn't understand, b. knew if they gave a real answer, they would be punished later for it, or c. were told what to do beforehand. In his "roundtable" afterwards Pence spent a bunch of time praising the compassion and concern of the border patrol agents instead of you know...talking about the people locked in concentration camps.
Hyper religious Pence pulling this stunt sums up pretty much all my frustration and anger about modern Christianity.
Dark_Side on
+40
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Pence claims he asked for things to not be cleaned up before hand to get a real look at conditions, but that sounds like a lie before I finished typing the thing.
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
Josh Marshall thinks this is the image the admin wanted, which is easy to believe.
Yeah, he's saying they wanted a picture of a bunch of filthy men on screen because that plays best into their narrative about what is going on.
Speaking of protests against concentration camps, one of the ones in Colorado last night took a turn for the stupid:
Protesters upset with the federal immigration roundups that may occur this weekend in Denver gathered Friday night at the ICE facility in Aurora.
The majority of protesters on site were doing so in a peaceful and law-abiding manner. Another group stormed the barriers near the building and pulled down an American flag off the flag pole in front of the facility and replaced it with a Mexican flag.
Some group, from the one picture I found looking to be masked, came in and pulled down the american flag and replace it with a mexican flag, an upside down american flag or blue lives matter flag (not clear to me) defaced with "Abolish ICE" and some other random flag that had something with swearing or the like written on it that none of the papers I looked at would describe in detail.
I checked a few news sources after seeing this to make sure it was real because this it's so dumb it would be cut from a TV or movie script for being unrealistic.
The rest of the crowd of apparently about 2000 people were protesting peaceful of course.
This kind of stuff is what I've been fearing. I also fear that things are going to escalate. To speak plainly, I'm worried we are going to see violence in future protest. I wish I was being needlessly alarmist, but Charlottseville.
The administration tried to have Pence do a staged tour of a concentration camp to show that things were good and "humane" and it kinda got ruined by, well, one their lack of prep for it, but also the inmates knew enough English to yell shit at the cameras like "NO SHOWER!"
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
Josh Marshall thinks this is the image the admin wanted, which is easy to believe.
Pence also went to a nice clean family facility.
They wanted both images. Pence made sure to post the nice pictures on Twitter and mention that some of those scary brown men in cages that the media told you about had been arrested multiple times.
They brought said media. Of course they wanted those pictures.
I mean, people are going to do more radical things when it’s obvious there’s no peaceful political avenue to affect change on an issue as serious as concentration camps. I can’t really blame them.
I think there's a difference between escalation on the part of protesters and just plain stupidity. This kind of shit with the flags is not functionally any different then a candle-light vigil. It's doesn't do any more. It's not more violent or more destructive or scarier or more confrontational or anything. It's just a worse look on the news for the protests.
shryke on
+7
Options
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
The shooting took place about six hours after a peaceful rally in front of the detention center, police spokesman Loretta Cool said. She said another rally was planned for later Saturday, but it would have to be held in a different area because of the investigation into the police shooting.
Police said the man caused a vehicle to catch fire and that he attempted to ignite a large propane tank and set buildings on fire. Police said that besides the rifle, he had a satchel and flares.
Police said officers called out to the man, and shots were fired.
Cool said all four officers fired their weapons, but she didn’t have specific details of what took place. She said the officers weren’t wearing body cameras, but the area is covered by surveillance cameras from the detention center. She said she didn’t know if the man fired at the officers.
After the gunfire, officers took cover, contained the area and set up medical aid a short distance away, police said.
Officers then located the man and determined he had been shot and was dead at the scene. His name hasn’t been released.
I know I've kinda been harping on this, but it does not take any great intellect to see it coming. I honestly feel this kind of incident was inevitable after it was shown the government will not help.
I mean, people are going to do more radical things when it’s obvious there’s no peaceful political avenue to affect change on an issue as serious as concentration camps. I can’t really blame them.
I think there's a difference between escalation on the part of protesters and just plain stupidity. This kind of shit with the flags is not functionally any different then a candle-light vigil. It's doesn't do any more. It's not more violent or more destructive or scarier or more confrontational or anything. It's just a worse look on the news for the protests.
It got your attention, right?
Anyway it doesn’t need to be a choice between peaceful vigils and like storming the place with weapons and clown masks. Protesting takes many forms. The fascists and their complicit propaganda networks are always going to hippie punch so who cares.
Too soon to assign motives to the person’s actions. The article mentions the planned protest, but nothing that links the attacker with the protestors which sounds very disingenuous.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I mean, people are going to do more radical things when it’s obvious there’s no peaceful political avenue to affect change on an issue as serious as concentration camps. I can’t really blame them.
I think there's a difference between escalation on the part of protesters and just plain stupidity. This kind of shit with the flags is not functionally any different then a candle-light vigil. It's doesn't do any more. It's not more violent or more destructive or scarier or more confrontational or anything. It's just a worse look on the news for the protests.
It got your attention, right?
Anyway it doesn’t need to be a choice between peaceful vigils and like storming the place with weapons and clown masks. Protesting takes many forms. The fascists and their complicit propaganda networks are always going to hippie punch so who cares.
"They are always gonna say something bad, so who cares?" This is silly. Especially in a thread that has spent like half it's length complaining about messaging. This kind of thing is really bad messaging.
If Pence really had any balls and wanted to show what it was like, he would have gone to a camp where they have the kids stuffed like fucking cordwood in rooms and let the pedos and abusers have the run of the place.
But no, of course, like anything else in this administration, it was a literal dog and pony show meant to give the base something they could point to and go "see!!!!!1!!!1 is not that bad!!!!1 librul skum fake news arglebargle"
And thanks to that turd of a comment, the backlash towards Pence is astounding. #FakeChristian is the #1 trend on Twitter currently.
Among those comments is a pretty tremendous one citing Leviticus of all things, directly contradicting the Trump/Pence administration on immigration. LEVITICUS. Even that got "welcome foreigners and love them" right.
It helps that Judaism runs in the maternal line so it doesn't have the "immigrants stealing our women" issue.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
And thanks to that turd of a comment, the backlash towards Pence is astounding. #FakeChristian is the #1 trend on Twitter currently.
It's the football game all over again. At massive expense, another complete set up to dunk on strawmen in the media and the democrats. The entire string got dumped at the same time and rips on CNN instead of NBC who actually put up the video. They probably had the tweets written before they even made the trip to the facility.
Dark_Side on
+5
Options
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
Nothing matters to the Fox News crowd. Those aren't the ones we need to talk to.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Nothing matters to the Fox News crowd. Those aren't the ones we need to talk to.
The GOP is trying to dismantle actual democracy and ensure that the die-hard base is all they need to maintain control of this country. So you're right that it doesn't matter, in one sense.
DarkPrimus on
+8
Options
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
Wrong thread, trump isn’t trying to deport my dog...yet
Nothing matters to the Fox News crowd. Those aren't the ones we need to talk to.
The GOP is trying to dismantle actual democracy and ensure that the die-hard base is all they need to maintain control of this country. So you're right that it doesn't matter, in one sense.
It takes massive embarrassment and sometimes a recession for some people to stand up. People have said this before, but there's many in this country that aren't terribly political, and only vote for change when it directly affects their lives.
It took Bush Jr. 8 years, a tired war, and a stock market crash for people to vote for Obama. Trump seems to be doing the same without the crash or the war... he's doing it by constantly embarrassing anyone of sound mind and intelligence in our country.
As for dismantling democracy, there's only so much you can shaft the system before it's blatant and outrageous. You can only bend the system so much, but if people actually want someone to win... they will win. It also tends to be a one shot deal, much like the recent Georgia governor election. He shafted the system to win, but it won't happen twice. Lawsuits are still going on about that election.
Nothing matters to the Fox News crowd. Those aren't the ones we need to talk to.
The GOP is trying to dismantle actual democracy and ensure that the die-hard base is all they need to maintain control of this country. So you're right that it doesn't matter, in one sense.
It takes massive embarrassment and sometimes a recession for some people to stand up. People have said this before, but there's many in this country that aren't terribly political, and only vote for change when it directly affects their lives.
It took Bush Jr. 8 years, a tired war, and a stock market crash for people to vote for Obama. Trump seems to be doing the same without the crash or the war... he's doing it by constantly embarrassing anyone of sound mind and intelligence in our country.
As for dismantling democracy, there's only so much you can shaft the system before it's blatant and outrageous. You can only bend the system so much, but if people actually want someone to win... they will win. It also tends to be a one shot deal, much like the recent Georgia governor election. He shafted the system to win, but it won't happen twice. Lawsuits are still going on about that election.
Friend, it's already blatant and outrageous. And it's far too early for you to declare "well that's just a one-off" when two separate elections - the last presidential and the last congressional/gubernatorial election - both had blatant and outrageous breaches of our democracy... and those sides made big wins both times.
That picture makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up
+38
Options
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
edited July 2019
The man who was killed attempting to storm the ICE detention center has been identified as a 69 year old Washington native named Willem Van Spronsen, and from early rumblings he was a known figure in the local anarchist activist community.
Edit: specifically I should mention that he'd already made headlines recently by attempting to de-arrest someone at a protest, where he was found to be also carrying a collapsible baton and a pocket knife.
Posts
Protests -> media attention -> donations -> lawsuits
Things could be much worse without groups like the ACLU and RAICES having the resources to challenge this shit at every opportunity.
That and, if things follow the path of history, it helps for resistance groups to be in touch.
Fuck Pence for attempting this shit.
The journalists reporting the smell also didn't help.
Josh Marshall thinks this is the image the admin wanted, which is easy to believe.
Is it that they couldn't get a facade of acceptable conditions up in time... or is it that they don't even give enough of a shit to put up a false front?
Even with as incompetent as these chucklefucks are, I find not getting it done in time is the most unlikely option. Either they didn't give a shit, or as ebum said, they wanted this.
Cruelty is the point, and it's both porn for their base (cause you know that the MAGAchuds are getting off on this), and what they THINK will be a "deterrent" for the next group about to make the trek. Not realizing that as inhumane and needlessly mean the conditions are, for a lot of legitimate asylum seekers, it's better than what they're leaving behind.
Hyper religious Pence pulling this stunt sums up pretty much all my frustration and anger about modern Christianity.
Safe assumption this was the best, cleanest they could manage in this short a time
3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
Yeah, he's saying they wanted a picture of a bunch of filthy men on screen because that plays best into their narrative about what is going on.
This kind of stuff is what I've been fearing. I also fear that things are going to escalate. To speak plainly, I'm worried we are going to see violence in future protest. I wish I was being needlessly alarmist, but Charlottseville.
Pence also went to a nice clean family facility.
They wanted both images. Pence made sure to post the nice pictures on Twitter and mention that some of those scary brown men in cages that the media told you about had been arrested multiple times.
They brought said media. Of course they wanted those pictures.
I think there's a difference between escalation on the part of protesters and just plain stupidity. This kind of shit with the flags is not functionally any different then a candle-light vigil. It's doesn't do any more. It's not more violent or more destructive or scarier or more confrontational or anything. It's just a worse look on the news for the protests.
The Seattle Times and local sources reporting that a Tacoma man was killed in an officer-involved shooting attempting to storm a detention center.
Chicago Sun Times reporting it as well.
I know I've kinda been harping on this, but it does not take any great intellect to see it coming. I honestly feel this kind of incident was inevitable after it was shown the government will not help.
It got your attention, right?
Anyway it doesn’t need to be a choice between peaceful vigils and like storming the place with weapons and clown masks. Protesting takes many forms. The fascists and their complicit propaganda networks are always going to hippie punch so who cares.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
"They are always gonna say something bad, so who cares?" This is silly. Especially in a thread that has spent like half it's length complaining about messaging. This kind of thing is really bad messaging.
Perhaps he meant conditions were too kind, and rations are to be reduced.
But no, of course, like anything else in this administration, it was a literal dog and pony show meant to give the base something they could point to and go "see!!!!!1!!!1 is not that bad!!!!1 librul skum fake news arglebargle"
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Mike Pence is Vice President of the United States
NBC News is NBC News
And thanks to that turd of a comment, the backlash towards Pence is astounding. #FakeChristian is the #1 trend on Twitter currently.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
It's the football game all over again. At massive expense, another complete set up to dunk on strawmen in the media and the democrats. The entire string got dumped at the same time and rips on CNN instead of NBC who actually put up the video. They probably had the tweets written before they even made the trip to the facility.
Nothing matters to the Fox News crowd. Those aren't the ones we need to talk to.
The GOP is trying to dismantle actual democracy and ensure that the die-hard base is all they need to maintain control of this country. So you're right that it doesn't matter, in one sense.
It takes massive embarrassment and sometimes a recession for some people to stand up. People have said this before, but there's many in this country that aren't terribly political, and only vote for change when it directly affects their lives.
It took Bush Jr. 8 years, a tired war, and a stock market crash for people to vote for Obama. Trump seems to be doing the same without the crash or the war... he's doing it by constantly embarrassing anyone of sound mind and intelligence in our country.
As for dismantling democracy, there's only so much you can shaft the system before it's blatant and outrageous. You can only bend the system so much, but if people actually want someone to win... they will win. It also tends to be a one shot deal, much like the recent Georgia governor election. He shafted the system to win, but it won't happen twice. Lawsuits are still going on about that election.
Friend, it's already blatant and outrageous. And it's far too early for you to declare "well that's just a one-off" when two separate elections - the last presidential and the last congressional/gubernatorial election - both had blatant and outrageous breaches of our democracy... and those sides made big wins both times.
pleasepaypreacher.net
That picture makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up
Edit: specifically I should mention that he'd already made headlines recently by attempting to de-arrest someone at a protest, where he was found to be also carrying a collapsible baton and a pocket knife.