Scottish Labour are having another meltdown because they're not considered to be worth any consideration by the Labour Party and they never learn. This time it's because John McDonnell said Labour won't block an Indy 2.0 referendum, in contradiction to ScotLab policy. Only after the shit hit the fan and after doubling down did he bother speaking to ScotLab leader Richard Leonard. I'm not sure if MCDonnell's walked it back yet.
This is the same shit that happened with Kezia Dugdale and the idiots in ScotLab don't ever learn Corbyns' Labour give no fucks about them.
To be frank no one has any legitimate right to block a second referendum given the change in circumstance since 2014. I say the same thing to Scot Lab as I say to Brexiteers. The only reason to fear a referendum is that you think a democratic vote wouldn't produce the result you want.
So one thing I am wondering: Article 50 requires a nation leave within procedures following its own constitution.
Should Johnson pull shenanigans like “oh, parliament approved a second referendum/general election, lets schedule it for Nov 1, oops thats after the deadline no deal.” could the EU not just declare that unconstitutional(either though the ECJ or a unanimous vote) and unilaterally move the date?
Boris'd just refuse to recognise it, and instruct everyone to behave as if they'd left.
Then ramp up the rhetoric even more.
You mean with rhetoric, or actually tell the people on the ground to enforce a hard border and customs? Cause doing the later would be pretty foolish even for him, unless he wants to find out just how many would just give him the finger when following through means intentionally harming their own country for his ego.
His thing seems to be ignoring reality and treating the world like it's working how he wants it to, I just assume that'd be the ultimate expression of it; we said we were going to leave on the 31st and we did. The EU says otherwise, but we left them, so why would their opinion matter?
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Paddy Power are giving odds on the first commodity to be rationed by the UK government in 2019
Fuel is at 4/1, bread is 16/1
Edit: also offering 11/4 on KFC closing outlets in the UK during 2019 due to a chicken shortage, which seems oddly specific
It's happened before in the UK, just last year. They switched suppliers...and the supplier was completely unable to meet demand, so they had to shut down stores for a few days until they could switch back.
Some 45,000 dairy cows could be culled in Northern Ireland, in the event of a no-deal Brexit if new higher tariffs are applied to British milk, senior industry figures have warned.
Northern Ireland is particularly vulnerable because about a third of its dairy output is processed in the Republic of Ireland, which would continue to be part of the EU.
The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October and one source said the culling of cattle could start within weeks of that date if that happened without the UK and EU agreeing a deal.
In a statement Defra said: "A widespread cull of livestock is absolutely not something that the government anticipates nor is planning for in the event of no-deal.
"We will always back Britain and Northern Ireland's great farmers and make sure that Brexit works for them.
"The government is boosting its preparations to ensure we are fully prepared to leave the EU on 31 October, whatever the circumstances."
But another industry insider told Newsnight that despite their warnings there had been a "metaphorical shrug of the shoulders from ministers".
More likely the meat goes in dog food or just gets wasted. There's usually rules saying unless an animal has been raised specifically from birth for meat it can't be used for human consumption.
More likely the meat goes in dog food or just gets wasted. There's usually rules saying unless an animal has been raised specifically from birth for meat it can't be used for human consumption.
More likely the meat goes in dog food or just gets wasted. There's usually rules saying unless an animal has been raised specifically from birth for meat it can't be used for human consumption.
IIRC the horse meat scandal was due to horse culling in Romania and trying to find a way to make it more profitable. Just because there are rules....
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
Kind of a tangent from the Brexit concerns, but the Institute of Fiscal Studies released a paper a couple of days ago talking about the characteristics of the top 1% and 0.1% of earners in the UK. Nestled away in the discussion of six figure salaries is the note that 43% of UK adults don't pay income tax because their income isn't high enough.
That's fucking astonishing to me. Nearly half of everyone in the UK earns less than £12,500 a year. No wonder people are feeling desperate and searching for someone to blame.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Kind of a tangent from the Brexit concerns, but the Institute of Fiscal Studies released a paper a couple of days ago talking about the characteristics of the top 1% and 0.1% of earners in the UK. Nestled away in the discussion of six figure salaries is the note that 43% of UK adults don't pay income tax because their income isn't high enough.
That's fucking astonishing to me. Nearly half of everyone in the UK earns less than £12,500 a year. No wonder people are feeling desperate and searching for someone to blame.
the number is roughly the same here. it's crazy
and they also get to pay all the most regressive taxes like sales tax and FICA/SSI
Kind of a tangent from the Brexit concerns, but the Institute of Fiscal Studies released a paper a couple of days ago talking about the characteristics of the top 1% and 0.1% of earners in the UK. Nestled away in the discussion of six figure salaries is the note that 43% of UK adults don't pay income tax because their income isn't high enough.
That's fucking astonishing to me. Nearly half of everyone in the UK earns less than £12,500 a year. No wonder people are feeling desperate and searching for someone to blame.
That is shocking, I tried to find similar data for sweden and the lowest median income of any county for ages 20-64 is a southern place called Perstorp where it was 268000 SEK (~£23k) for 2017. And the theory is that they are close enough to denmark that some people work over there so their income don’t show up in the statistics.
I would like to know how those figures break down. I know wages have been stagnating for a while but how much of that 43% are home-makers, students, etc? The figure says "adults", not "earners" or the employed.
Kind of a tangent from the Brexit concerns, but the Institute of Fiscal Studies released a paper a couple of days ago talking about the characteristics of the top 1% and 0.1% of earners in the UK. Nestled away in the discussion of six figure salaries is the note that 43% of UK adults don't pay income tax because their income isn't high enough.
That's fucking astonishing to me. Nearly half of everyone in the UK earns less than £12,500 a year. No wonder people are feeling desperate and searching for someone to blame.
That is shocking, I tried to find similar data for sweden and the lowest median income of any county is a southern place called Perstorp where it was 268000 SEK (~£23k) for 2017. And the theory is that they are close enough to denmark that some people work over there so their income don’t show up in the statistics.
it could be the scandinavian economic model is generally far more successful than the anglo-saxon model
Scottish Labour are very, very annoyed with John McDonnell and the recent OK sure shrug about another Scottish Independence vote. I wonder if McDonnell even bothered telling them ahead of time what he was going to do. If McDonnell wanted to make his own party in Scotland look irrelevant and powerless (and you could very well argue that they are), he's done a spectacular job.
Scottish Labour are very, very annoyed with John McDonnell and the recent OK sure shrug about another Scottish Independence vote. I wonder if McDonnell even bothered telling them ahead of time what he was going to do. If McDonnell wanted to make his own party in Scotland look irrelevant and powerless (and you could very well argue that they are), he's done a spectacular job.
The rank hypocrisy of Scottish Labour supporting a second EU Referendum but opposing a second Indy Ref would stagger me if not for my constant exposure to SLab over the last 39 years of my life.
In NL at least, such figures are skewed because they are 18-75y
This means that a lot of people are not really in the work pool:
University Students
A decade of Pensioners
Partners in single income families
People on some sort of disability income
Unemployed
People who don't work officially, but also don't rely on the state (a lot of unreported work, but also people who 'avoid' the system, from homeless to criminals to people with enough wealth not to work)
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would dash across London in a cab to Buckingham Palace and tell Queen Elizabeth “We’re taking over” should Prime Minister Boris Johnson refuse to quit if he lost a no-confidence vote, Corbyn’s deputy says.
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
I would like to know how those figures break down. I know wages have been stagnating for a while but how much of that 43% are home-makers, students, etc? The figure says "adults", not "earners" or the employed.
I don’t see why that matters
Upkeep costs on these crazy meat-husks are similar regardless of employment status
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would dash across London in a cab to Buckingham Palace and tell Queen Elizabeth “We’re taking over” should Prime Minister Boris Johnson refuse to quit if he lost a no-confidence vote, Corbyn’s deputy says.
Were it anyone but Corbyn, I would take this as a not-so-subtle hint that he has a working majority to form a new government during the 14 day period.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
I would like to know how those figures break down. I know wages have been stagnating for a while but how much of that 43% are home-makers, students, etc? The figure says "adults", not "earners" or the employed.
I don’t see why that matters
Upkeep costs on these crazy meat-husks are similar regardless of employment status
well if 43% of adults make less than £12,500 but only half of them are employed, it sort of makes the 43% figure sensationally inflated. a certain subset of adults can be expected to not be employed, so for purposes of a discussion of what people earn, they are essentially tipping the scales.
or, alternately, it's entirely possible it's only talking about people who are employed, in which case that's an unacceptably high number in my opinion
Scottish Labour are very, very annoyed with John McDonnell and the recent OK sure shrug about another Scottish Independence vote. I wonder if McDonnell even bothered telling them ahead of time what he was going to do. If McDonnell wanted to make his own party in Scotland look irrelevant and powerless (and you could very well argue that they are), he's done a spectacular job.
The rank hypocrisy of Scottish Labour supporting a second EU Referendum but opposing a second Indy Ref would stagger me if not for my constant exposure to SLab over the last 39 years of my life.
McDonnell has apparently also said that they will block a yes/no ref question
Supposedly, they want the option of a Federal UK on there, and this is totally consistent with the fact that Dugdale pushed that internally for her entire tenure and the Labour leadership pushed her out over it (among other things)
Relatedly, nationalist twitter is having tremendous fun with the fact that Scottish Labour is arguing that UK Labour should be required to respect the expressed will of Scottish Labour, in matters pertaining to Scotland.
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would dash across London in a cab to Buckingham Palace and tell Queen Elizabeth “We’re taking over” should Prime Minister Boris Johnson refuse to quit if he lost a no-confidence vote, Corbyn’s deputy says.
Were it anyone but Corbyn, I would take this as a not-so-subtle hint that he has a working majority to form a new government during the 14 day period.
But since it is, it's just one more thing showing what really matters to him.
McDonnell has apparently also said that they will block a yes/no ref question
Supposedly, they want the option of a Federal UK on there, and this is totally consistent with the fact that Dugdale pushed that internally for her entire tenure and the Labour leadership pushed her out over it (among other things)
What difference will that make now? We're almost certainly leaving the EU and 3 other parliaments will have to agree to a plan for Federalisation. If they put it on the ballot we could say aye and England can go naw then it's back to the same shit we have now.
Plus we've had this carrot dangled in front of us in 2014 with no follow through. It was just proposed to split the vote then. It'd be daft to fall for it again.
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would dash across London in a cab to Buckingham Palace and tell Queen Elizabeth “We’re taking over” should Prime Minister Boris Johnson refuse to quit if he lost a no-confidence vote, Corbyn’s deputy says.
Were it anyone but Corbyn, I would take this as a not-so-subtle hint that he has a working majority to form a new government during the 14 day period.
Yes, according to below FT writer the Liberals would prefer a no deal Brexit to Corbyn as PM.
McDonnell has apparently also said that they will block a yes/no ref question
Supposedly, they want the option of a Federal UK on there, and this is totally consistent with the fact that Dugdale pushed that internally for her entire tenure and the Labour leadership pushed her out over it (among other things)
What difference will that make now? We're almost certainly leaving the EU and 3 other parliaments will have to agree to a plan for Federalisation. If they put it on the ballot we could say aye and England can go naw then it's back to the same shit we have now.
Plus we've had this carrot dangled in front of us in 2014 with no follow through. It was just proposed to split the vote then. It'd be daft to fall for it again.
I'm honestly not sure
The obvious intention is to split the yes vote but I can see it pulling in wavering no voters and splitting that vote instead/as well
Given the way brexit has gone down I can also see people being extremely suspicious of an open ended option that depends on the goodwill of the UK government
Also it seems like a vote to federalise the home nations should be a uk-wide vote
That's just the same as last time though with Clegg, you don't say "We expect to lose". They are right though, Corbyn is a threat to a lot of things through sheer ineptitude alone, and that's why it's so easy for Tories to rally against him. If someone else had been in charge of Labour last time I imagine May wouldn't have bothered calling that election. And she wouldn't have "won" it either.
That's just the same as last time though with Clegg, you don't say "We expect to lose". They are right though, Corbyn is a threat to a lot of things through sheer ineptitude alone, and that's why it's so easy for Tories to rally against him. If someone else had been in charge of Labour last time I imagine May wouldn't have bothered calling that election. And she wouldn't have "won" it either.
Nah, the press would have murdered Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper, only reason it didn't quite work on Corbyn is his core supporters don't trust the non-left media.
That's just the same as last time though with Clegg, you don't say "We expect to lose". They are right though, Corbyn is a threat to a lot of things through sheer ineptitude alone, and that's why it's so easy for Tories to rally against him. If someone else had been in charge of Labour last time I imagine May wouldn't have bothered calling that election. And she wouldn't have "won" it either.
Seeing as Corbyn is pro-leave, putting him in charge of a bollocks to brexit coalition would be daft
That's just the same as last time though with Clegg, you don't say "We expect to lose". They are right though, Corbyn is a threat to a lot of things through sheer ineptitude alone, and that's why it's so easy for Tories to rally against him. If someone else had been in charge of Labour last time I imagine May wouldn't have bothered calling that election. And she wouldn't have "won" it either.
Seeing as Corbyn is pro-leave, putting him in charge of a bollocks to brexit coalition would be daft
Seriously, I really struggle to see the Lib Dems acting like "yellow Tories" here. If you're against the idea of Brexit you should be against the idea of Corbyn as PM.
British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would dash across London in a cab to Buckingham Palace and tell Queen Elizabeth “We’re taking over” should Prime Minister Boris Johnson refuse to quit if he lost a no-confidence vote, Corbyn’s deputy says.
Were it anyone but Corbyn, I would take this as a not-so-subtle hint that he has a working majority to form a new government during the 14 day period.
Yes, according to below FT writer the Liberals would prefer a no deal Brexit to Corbyn as PM.
That's just the same as last time though with Clegg, you don't say "We expect to lose". They are right though, Corbyn is a threat to a lot of things through sheer ineptitude alone, and that's why it's so easy for Tories to rally against him. If someone else had been in charge of Labour last time I imagine May wouldn't have bothered calling that election. And she wouldn't have "won" it either.
Seeing as Corbyn is pro-leave, putting him in charge of a bollocks to brexit coalition would be daft
Seriously, I really struggle to see the Lib Dems acting like "yellow Tories" here. If you're against the idea of Brexit you should be against the idea of Corbyn as PM.
Not really a transitional Corbyn government would be reliant on SNP and Lib Dem votes and would have to deliver a GE or referendum very quickly before it fell apart.
The Liberals really do have long standing ideological differences with Labour, that mean more to them than stopping Brexit.
As far as I can figure out from that link, the Lib Dem statement is entirely about Brexit. Is there something showing that's not the case?
Because a pro-Remain party should definitely not trust Corbyn and that's got nothing to do with being "tory".
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
it is entirely possible the lib dems are both the tory-lite party and so would not want to put corbyn in the leadership and also don't believe corbyn is pro-remain and would not want to put him in the leadership
because i mean
both are certainly true
Chanus on
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The caretaker government is presumably only about Brexit, though. Unless I am mistaken.
The posturing from both Labour and Lib Dems about not working with each other is just stupid. The only thing such a coalition needs to do is be able to form a majority after a VONC in Johnson, allowing them to be in charge long enough to request an extension from the EU to avoid no deal. It’s not a long-term thing.
Ideally they’d then immediately try to get a general election, but I’m not sure how that would work as they wouldn’t have a 2/3rds majority for it, but maybe they just no-confidence themselves?
Any proposal involving Labour must account for the fact that, like Boris, the only thing Corbyn wants is to be in charge and he's quite willing to burn down the country to get it. He's just less honest about it.
EDIT: to be fair, it's possible he genuinely believes he can manage a "better" Brexit, in the context of the 1970s world he apparently still lives in... but, again and of course, only if he's in charge. So that just makes him dishonest and delusional.
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This is the same shit that happened with Kezia Dugdale and the idiots in ScotLab don't ever learn Corbyns' Labour give no fucks about them.
You mean with rhetoric, or actually tell the people on the ground to enforce a hard border and customs? Cause doing the later would be pretty foolish even for him, unless he wants to find out just how many would just give him the finger when following through means intentionally harming their own country for his ego.
It's happened before in the UK, just last year. They switched suppliers...and the supplier was completely unable to meet demand, so they had to shut down stores for a few days until they could switch back.
No-deal Brexit risks cattle cull in NI, industry insiders warn
Ah, but are they EU rules? #lifehacks
IIRC the horse meat scandal was due to horse culling in Romania and trying to find a way to make it more profitable. Just because there are rules....
That's fucking astonishing to me. Nearly half of everyone in the UK earns less than £12,500 a year. No wonder people are feeling desperate and searching for someone to blame.
the number is roughly the same here. it's crazy
and they also get to pay all the most regressive taxes like sales tax and FICA/SSI
That is shocking, I tried to find similar data for sweden and the lowest median income of any county for ages 20-64 is a southern place called Perstorp where it was 268000 SEK (~£23k) for 2017. And the theory is that they are close enough to denmark that some people work over there so their income don’t show up in the statistics.
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it could be the scandinavian economic model is generally far more successful than the anglo-saxon model
Scottish Labour are very, very annoyed with John McDonnell and the recent OK sure shrug about another Scottish Independence vote. I wonder if McDonnell even bothered telling them ahead of time what he was going to do. If McDonnell wanted to make his own party in Scotland look irrelevant and powerless (and you could very well argue that they are), he's done a spectacular job.
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The rank hypocrisy of Scottish Labour supporting a second EU Referendum but opposing a second Indy Ref would stagger me if not for my constant exposure to SLab over the last 39 years of my life.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
This means that a lot of people are not really in the work pool:
University Students
A decade of Pensioners
Partners in single income families
People on some sort of disability income
Unemployed
People who don't work officially, but also don't rely on the state (a lot of unreported work, but also people who 'avoid' the system, from homeless to criminals to people with enough wealth not to work)
reuters is an international news organization
I don’t see why that matters
Upkeep costs on these crazy meat-husks are similar regardless of employment status
Were it anyone but Corbyn, I would take this as a not-so-subtle hint that he has a working majority to form a new government during the 14 day period.
well if 43% of adults make less than £12,500 but only half of them are employed, it sort of makes the 43% figure sensationally inflated. a certain subset of adults can be expected to not be employed, so for purposes of a discussion of what people earn, they are essentially tipping the scales.
or, alternately, it's entirely possible it's only talking about people who are employed, in which case that's an unacceptably high number in my opinion
McDonnell has apparently also said that they will block a yes/no ref question
Supposedly, they want the option of a Federal UK on there, and this is totally consistent with the fact that Dugdale pushed that internally for her entire tenure and the Labour leadership pushed her out over it (among other things)
KFC generally uses fresh chicken so hiccups in the supply chain can close locations pretty rapidly.
But since it is, it's just one more thing showing what really matters to him.
What difference will that make now? We're almost certainly leaving the EU and 3 other parliaments will have to agree to a plan for Federalisation. If they put it on the ballot we could say aye and England can go naw then it's back to the same shit we have now.
Plus we've had this carrot dangled in front of us in 2014 with no follow through. It was just proposed to split the vote then. It'd be daft to fall for it again.
Yellow Tories, continue to yellow Tory...
I'm honestly not sure
The obvious intention is to split the yes vote but I can see it pulling in wavering no voters and splitting that vote instead/as well
Given the way brexit has gone down I can also see people being extremely suspicious of an open ended option that depends on the goodwill of the UK government
Also it seems like a vote to federalise the home nations should be a uk-wide vote
Nah, the press would have murdered Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper, only reason it didn't quite work on Corbyn is his core supporters don't trust the non-left media.
Seeing as Corbyn is pro-leave, putting him in charge of a bollocks to brexit coalition would be daft
MWO: Adamski
Seriously, I really struggle to see the Lib Dems acting like "yellow Tories" here. If you're against the idea of Brexit you should be against the idea of Corbyn as PM.
Seems to read that they don't believe Corbyn would avoid Brexit
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Not really a transitional Corbyn government would be reliant on SNP and Lib Dem votes and would have to deliver a GE or referendum very quickly before it fell apart.
The Liberals really do have long standing ideological differences with Labour, that mean more to them than stopping Brexit.
Because a pro-Remain party should definitely not trust Corbyn and that's got nothing to do with being "tory".
because i mean
both are certainly true
Ideally they’d then immediately try to get a general election, but I’m not sure how that would work as they wouldn’t have a 2/3rds majority for it, but maybe they just no-confidence themselves?
EDIT: to be fair, it's possible he genuinely believes he can manage a "better" Brexit, in the context of the 1970s world he apparently still lives in... but, again and of course, only if he's in charge. So that just makes him dishonest and delusional.