I think the point is that even off of suicide watch there are measures that could have and should have been taken to prevent Epstein from killing himself. And they weren’t, for some reason.
Like having a cell mate would be a low cost, low effort thing to do.
So we are OK with Epstein getting away with it because it would be inhumane to bring him to trial? How tender-hearted.
They didn't need to have a guard shake him awake every 15 minutes or whatever you think. A camera watched 24/7 would have been fine. Hardly sadistic.
I think people might have some skewed views on suicide watch, judging by posts like this.
Suicide watch, especially intense suicide watch, is not just visual monitoring. It's a lot more invasive. This is because 24/7 monitoring without more invasive, labour-intensive measures — someone in the room at all times, within arm's reach, for example — is ineffective. People who really, really want to kill themselves can do a lot of damage very quickly, and they are resourceful. This is my understanding based on reading and translating correctional reports from max sec facilities and psych wards; I'm not a professional. Watching someone isn't enough. You have to be poised to intervene within seconds or actually sustain intervention over the crisis period.
They didn't even do the bloody minimum. It's not that he slashed his throat and bled out rapidly before help arrived. He was left alone all night, against policy (he was supposed to have a cellmate), and not checked on or monitored at all.
Why are we pretending that the only choice is between leaving him completely alone and giving him the Chelsea Manning treatment?
I feel that the urge to be all nice and sensible and say pooh-pooh to silly conspiracy theories is very helpful to Epstein and his friends. Remember we probably live in a reality where the Republican party appears to have conspired with Russia to win the Presidential election, and definitely live in a reality where Watergate occurred. While aliens and demonic pizza parlors don't exist, evil men covering up evil deeds together definitely do.
So we are OK with Epstein getting away with it because it would be inhumane to bring him to trial? How tender-hearted.
They didn't need to have a guard shake him awake every 15 minutes or whatever you think. A camera watched 24/7 would have been fine. Hardly sadistic.
What you describe is what I would call basic safety protocol and nothing at all like suicide watch. Shaking him awake every 15 minutes wouldn't even qualify. Epstein's death was the failure of the system to provide the basics either through negligence or malice. Either way doesn't much matter since it is another example of why we need prison reform.
I'm not willing to reject out of hand that Epstein was murdered or neglected because of powerful interests protecting themselves. It's a suspicious death, suspiciously timed, and should be investigated rigorously! But it is a conspiracy theory, with all the same patterns of thought behind it.
It's also entirely plausible that he was suicidal because he had lost everything and was doomed to misery and fear, and he managed to kill himself. Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
In hindsight, putting him on isolation was not the right call, and the people who made that decision will be asked to explain themselves, and any gap in the records will look real bad.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
I don't think we will ever find out if it was negligence or malice. But I think it looks pretty bloody fishy. I think that the prison will run an investigation, someone will be disciplined, and it will be chalked down to low staffing levels.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
I don't think we will ever find out if it was negligence or malice. But I think it looks pretty bloody fishy. I think that the prison will run an investigation, someone will be disciplined, and it will be chalked down to low staffing levels.
Yeah this will 100% be pinned on blue collar guards and a a white collar administrator or two and everyone will be expected to move on.
There is already talk of low staffing levels and too much overtime being to blame. This AP report has an anonymous source inside the prison saying the guard on Epstein was on his fifth straight overtime shift.
I just find it hard to believe that the prison that was trusted with El Chapo + various terrorists and is generally thought to have it's shit together is suddenly a bunch of bumbling idiots when it comes to this specific prisoner.
So we are OK with Epstein getting away with it because it would be inhumane to bring him to trial? How tender-hearted.
They didn't need to have a guard shake him awake every 15 minutes or whatever you think. A camera watched 24/7 would have been fine. Hardly sadistic.
What you describe is what I would call basic safety protocol and nothing at all like suicide watch. Shaking him awake every 15 minutes wouldn't even qualify. Epstein's death was the failure of the system to provide the basics either through negligence or malice. Either way doesn't much matter since it is another example of why we need prison reform.
Yeah. I've been the guy babysitting the patient/detainee in a paper gown. It gets really exhausting being asked if they can go to the bathroom, have a crayon, have a drink of water, change the tv channel, etc etc. It's also really easy to get complacent and not yell out, "Hands" every few minutes because they keep hiding their hands. Again, my experience is in an ED/Hospital and I can only imagine in a detention facility it would be even worse because guards aren't really trained to give a shit... quite the opposite in my experience.
I've cleaned poop off walls, had people spit at me or try to fling hand-cups of piss at me, try and rip the door down or hurt themselves in a way that gets "*the leathers". It's all really exhausting as the sitter/guard.
*We called the true restraints that prevent all hand/leg movement "the leathers" because most restraints were just like a seatbelt and some long shackles made of woven fabric that prevented clapping your hands in front of you, but still let you roll around in bed or scratch an itch. The leathers were a belt with two loops and a strap that went around the foot of the bed that prevented all motion, and we hated using it because it really only makes someone more agitated.
Fighting someone who wants to hurt themselves to stop them from hurting themselves feels like defeat even if you win. I've got a lot of respect for people who work in mental health facilities and want to do good and I'm sorry there are so many funding issues, training issues and for lack of a better term - sadists who get into the mix as employees who give everyone a bad rap. Please don't take my critique or disagreement as an attack on your profession Gizmo.
His own actions put him into a situation where he no longer wanted to live.
To be brutally honest, I don’t much care even if we were all to agree that it’s “cruel” to force someone to live with the circumstances of their own actions.
I reject this attitude because it's almost impossible to have this simultaneously while having any any concern about the horrors of our prison system in general. I cannot square the circle of both caring about the humanity of prisoners in general with being specifically willing to discard that as soon as somebody horrific enough comes along.
So, I wanted to come back to this and explain myself.
First, my response was really to Winky regarding my general philosophy on the ethics of “keeping someone alive who doesn’t want to be alive.” In an ideal world, divorced of the context of the current issues with prison which I neither deny nor condone, I think people should be “kept alive” to face consequences, I suppose, though I think it’s a heavy question and one I need to genuinely think about more. I took Winky’s position to be a general philosophical position and mine was in the same vein.
Second, what do you mean by “willing to discard”? I’m not really sure I would support the idea of ethical suicide for anyone facing the consequences of their own actions. If you’re referring to the specifics related to issues that prison reform seeks to exist, I agree. I’m not condoning torturing prisoners in any way. But I don’t think there should be a reprieve from the mental anguish people probably suffer from when facing any number of reasonable punishments, such as a lifetime of incarceration. I’m not condoning or suggesting that exploiting the fucked up prison system to enact retribution on vile criminals is a good thing, believe me. I support prison reform.
I admit that my sympathy toward someone suffering from anguish over the future they created for themselves decreases the worse the crimes are and how much they’ve negatively impacted others, but I’m only human and I’m certainly not sitting here pushing or suggesting some agenda of screwing with prisoners in a lopsided way.
I read your post as supporting some other suggestions in the thread to put him on indefinite suicide watch or otherwise utilize atypical measures to deny him even normal concessions to the well-being of prisoners. If you just meant to say "prisoners shouldn't have a right to non-medically-relevant voluntary suicide" I don't have super strong feelings on it.
His own actions put him into a situation where he no longer wanted to live.
To be brutally honest, I don’t much care even if we were all to agree that it’s “cruel” to force someone to live with the circumstances of their own actions.
I reject this attitude because it's almost impossible to have this simultaneously while having any any concern about the horrors of our prison system in general. I cannot square the circle of both caring about the humanity of prisoners in general with being specifically willing to discard that as soon as somebody horrific enough comes along.
So, I wanted to come back to this and explain myself.
First, my response was really to Winky regarding my general philosophy on the ethics of “keeping someone alive who doesn’t want to be alive.” In an ideal world, divorced of the context of the current issues with prison which I neither deny nor condone, I think people should be “kept alive” to face consequences, I suppose, though I think it’s a heavy question and one I need to genuinely think about more. I took Winky’s position to be a general philosophical position and mine was in the same vein.
Second, what do you mean by “willing to discard”? I’m not really sure I would support the idea of ethical suicide for anyone facing the consequences of their own actions. If you’re referring to the specifics related to issues that prison reform seeks to exist, I agree. I’m not condoning torturing prisoners in any way. But I don’t think there should be a reprieve from the mental anguish people probably suffer from when facing any number of reasonable punishments, such as a lifetime of incarceration. I’m not condoning or suggesting that exploiting the fucked up prison system to enact retribution on vile criminals is a good thing, believe me. I support prison reform.
I admit that my sympathy toward someone suffering from anguish over the future they created for themselves decreases the worse the crimes are and how much they’ve negatively impacted others, but I’m only human and I’m certainly not sitting here pushing or suggesting some agenda of screwing with prisoners in a lopsided way.
I read your post as supporting some other suggestions in the thread to put him on indefinite suicide watch or otherwise utilize atypical measures to deny him even normal concessions to the well-being of prisoners. If you just meant to say "prisoners shouldn't have a right to non-medically-relevant voluntary suicide" I don't have super strong feelings on it.
Definitely the latter, not the former, for my philosophy.
Federal agents, including FBI and CBP were seen on the dock and grounds of Little Saint James, the island owned by accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The U.S. Attorney's Office and SDNY declined to comment on the operation.
ABC News is the news division of one of the three major television networks in the US
I'm fairly surprised that this didn't happen sooner. Thinking about it, shouldn't this have been done when he was arrested originally? Hopefully no one else had access while he was away, but that can't be true, can it?
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Federal agents, including FBI and CBP were seen on the dock and grounds of Little Saint James, the island owned by accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The U.S. Attorney's Office and SDNY declined to comment on the operation.
ABC News is the news division of one of the three major television networks in the US
I'm fairly surprised that this didn't happen sooner. Thinking about it, shouldn't this have been done when he was arrested originally? Hopefully no one else had access while he was away, but that can't be true, can it?
I think this comes back to "dead people can't object to you searching their stuff".
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Federal agents, including FBI and CBP were seen on the dock and grounds of Little Saint James, the island owned by accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The U.S. Attorney's Office and SDNY declined to comment on the operation.
ABC News is the news division of one of the three major television networks in the US
I'm fairly surprised that this didn't happen sooner. Thinking about it, shouldn't this have been done when he was arrested originally? Hopefully no one else had access while he was away, but that can't be true, can it?
I'm sure someone already did go through it.
As for the delay, well this is ultimately an operation by AG Barr who is a known liar and someone who has no issue covering for the president.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I don't think it was a murder staged as a suicide, but a suicide not interrupted. It seems pretty bloody fishy that the only thing that saved him last time was a cellmate - and then they moved him to solitary? Why?
The reason could just be that his lawyers pushed for it specifically so that he could get it over with.
Can lawyers even request a move to solitary? That's normally a punishment.
I can only cite Orange is the New Black here, but I believe there are degrees of solitary ranging from "single occupancy cells" (adseg?) to "the hole" (Solitary-solitary).
Like how Manafort's 'solitary' confinement was probably not remotely similar to Manning's.
Man, I still can't belive all of this. And a big part of me wants to believe there's a conspiracy not just some piece of shit offed himself before he stood trial for his crimes. It just seems to simple and clean for a man this dirty to end his life and end this investigation , even if that's what likely happened.
God it grinds my gears so fucking much every time I hear about him owning an island.
Hey man, just con your way into a rich people party and blackmail a billionaire and you can own your own island, too. Anyone can do it! It's certainly not a sign of a broken society!
You could buy 10 islands for the price of owning a home in Manhattan, for perspective
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Its in the US Virgin Islands. Lots of not particularly wealthy people "own" islands too, there's a lot of lakes in North America with lots of tiny islands with a cottage on them. People hear owns an island and they assume they've got their own nation, but its just some property surrounded by water.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
I think if it was Joey No-Name I would not doubt Institutional neglect as a cause, but this wasn't Joey No-Name. This was a big name criminal with dirt on several high-profile dudes. His death isn't the kind of shit that gets mentioned in a little notice at the back of page 21 if its mentioned at all. His death is Headline News.
I find it implausible that an institution that knows that people are watching for Epstein news, that knows that Epstein has tried suicide before, knows that a shitstorm will come down on them(as has already happened) if he offs himself don't get their fucking shit together and still fails to do even the bares minimum to prevent it.
In other words the idea that even a dysfunctional institution wouldn't try to unfuck themselves when face with such a potential scandal in the making? That is equally implausible.
Neglect vs Malice, and its equal odds. Yay, what a world to live in
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
Its in the US Virgin Islands. Lots of not particularly wealthy people "own" islands too, there's a lot of lakes in North America with lots of tiny islands with a cottage on them. People hear owns an island and they assume they've got their own nation, but its just some property surrounded by water.
I live in a renovated stoveworks by a railroad crossing.
An island is an island.
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Again the bigger issue, is that Epstein's death really highlights the failure of the US prison system. You have the ambiguity of not knowing if he offed himself out of pure spite & cowardice or if he did so because of the US prison system being a giant human rights abuse. That ambiguity shouldn't exist.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the manner of his death ends up being something where a better run prison would have been able to prevent without suicide watch. As Preacher mentions, there are a few things we should have in place outside of suicide watch to prevent some of the fuck awful shit that happens in our prison system.
I've read a few articles over the years about prison guards being in short supply intentionally because it keeps wages up and let's the ones who do work make 30% or more of their salary in overtime.
We're very short on trained mental health counseling in the prison system. We should be doing better. Doing better right now means turning a profit.
Really, we've monetized everything a government should provide it's people to the point it feels less like a country sometimes than it does a huge grift.
Ugh I hate that my first thought at seeing CBP mentioned there is that I can't help wondering what their role is considering the implication that Epstein traffics children illegally and currently our policy towards illegally trafficked kids is to throw them in cages and lose them.
Its in the US Virgin Islands. Lots of not particularly wealthy people "own" islands too, there's a lot of lakes in North America with lots of tiny islands with a cottage on them. People hear owns an island and they assume they've got their own nation, but its just some property surrounded by water.
I suspect it is harder to enforce the law there though. In the same way any isolated location is.
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Its in the US Virgin Islands. Lots of not particularly wealthy people "own" islands too, there's a lot of lakes in North America with lots of tiny islands with a cottage on them. People hear owns an island and they assume they've got their own nation, but its just some property surrounded by water.
I suspect it is in harder to enforce the law there though. In the same way any isolated location is.
Ugh I hate that my first thought at seeing CBP mentioned there is that I can't help wondering what their role is considering the implication that Epstein traffics children illegally and currently our policy towards illegally trafficked kids is to throw them in cages and lose them.
The least-shitty parts of CBP/ICE are the ones that are devoted to combating trafficking and child exploitation... the same parts that have been underfunded as of late, not coincidentally.
Ugh I hate that my first thought at seeing CBP mentioned there is that I can't help wondering what their role is considering the implication that Epstein traffics children illegally and currently our policy towards illegally trafficked kids is to throw them in cages and lose them.
The least-shitty parts of CBP/ICE are the ones that are devoted to combating trafficking and child exploitation... the same parts that have been underfunded as of late, not coincidentally.
They seem to have redefined "child trafficking" as "crossing the border with a child and no visa" and left pedos like Epstein quite unbothered.
Apparently the jail was short-staffed and using non-trained staff to guard prisoners. Honestly, had Epstein known all this he might have just walked out the door and left.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I've read a few articles over the years about prison guards being in short supply intentionally because it keeps wages up and let's the ones who do work make 30% or more of their salary in overtime.
We're very short on trained mental health counseling in the prison system. We should be doing better. Doing better right now means turning a profit.
Really, we've monetized everything a government should provide it's people to the point it feels less like a country sometimes than it does a huge grift.
Well, if you're not trained well, you're going to do each task more slowly and be less able to monitor multiple things at once (or even know what to do in the first place, like check on people every X minutes). Also note these 2 guards were not -just- assigned to Epstein, they had the entire unit to look after too.
I hope this isn't too much of a topic shift, but I keep an eye on some of the Alt-right, basically so I know when they start warming up the cattle-cars. They're scared. In the past 36 hours I have seen (and in some cases, been subject to) banhammers, sudden reversals, and the kind of erratic behavior you expect in Trump himself. They can't let go of their Clinton Conspiracy obsession but they *need* this to go away without all of Epstein's connections to the Trump administration coming out.
I'm sure they'll settle around a narrative eventually, they've trained their brains to handle massive amounts of cognitive dissonance, but it's a small, bitter comfort.
Oh, and my prediction: Epstein committed suicide; some clerk will be blamed for it, 20-30 years from now a tape will surface showing orders from on high came down to talk Epstein into it and make sure that no one was around to stop it. Strategic incompetence is the most common form of actual conspiracy; because it's already supported by natural entropy.
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Like having a cell mate would be a low cost, low effort thing to do.
They didn't even do the bloody minimum. It's not that he slashed his throat and bled out rapidly before help arrived. He was left alone all night, against policy (he was supposed to have a cellmate), and not checked on or monitored at all.
Why are we pretending that the only choice is between leaving him completely alone and giving him the Chelsea Manning treatment?
I feel that the urge to be all nice and sensible and say pooh-pooh to silly conspiracy theories is very helpful to Epstein and his friends. Remember we probably live in a reality where the Republican party appears to have conspired with Russia to win the Presidential election, and definitely live in a reality where Watergate occurred. While aliens and demonic pizza parlors don't exist, evil men covering up evil deeds together definitely do.
What you describe is what I would call basic safety protocol and nothing at all like suicide watch. Shaking him awake every 15 minutes wouldn't even qualify. Epstein's death was the failure of the system to provide the basics either through negligence or malice. Either way doesn't much matter since it is another example of why we need prison reform.
It's also entirely plausible that he was suicidal because he had lost everything and was doomed to misery and fear, and he managed to kill himself. Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't think we will ever find out if it was negligence or malice. But I think it looks pretty bloody fishy. I think that the prison will run an investigation, someone will be disciplined, and it will be chalked down to low staffing levels.
Yeah this will 100% be pinned on blue collar guards and a a white collar administrator or two and everyone will be expected to move on.
There is already talk of low staffing levels and too much overtime being to blame. This AP report has an anonymous source inside the prison saying the guard on Epstein was on his fifth straight overtime shift.
I just find it hard to believe that the prison that was trusted with El Chapo + various terrorists and is generally thought to have it's shit together is suddenly a bunch of bumbling idiots when it comes to this specific prisoner.
Yeah. I've been the guy babysitting the patient/detainee in a paper gown. It gets really exhausting being asked if they can go to the bathroom, have a crayon, have a drink of water, change the tv channel, etc etc. It's also really easy to get complacent and not yell out, "Hands" every few minutes because they keep hiding their hands. Again, my experience is in an ED/Hospital and I can only imagine in a detention facility it would be even worse because guards aren't really trained to give a shit... quite the opposite in my experience.
I've cleaned poop off walls, had people spit at me or try to fling hand-cups of piss at me, try and rip the door down or hurt themselves in a way that gets "*the leathers". It's all really exhausting as the sitter/guard.
*We called the true restraints that prevent all hand/leg movement "the leathers" because most restraints were just like a seatbelt and some long shackles made of woven fabric that prevented clapping your hands in front of you, but still let you roll around in bed or scratch an itch. The leathers were a belt with two loops and a strap that went around the foot of the bed that prevented all motion, and we hated using it because it really only makes someone more agitated.
Fighting someone who wants to hurt themselves to stop them from hurting themselves feels like defeat even if you win. I've got a lot of respect for people who work in mental health facilities and want to do good and I'm sorry there are so many funding issues, training issues and for lack of a better term - sadists who get into the mix as employees who give everyone a bad rap. Please don't take my critique or disagreement as an attack on your profession Gizmo.
Definitely the latter, not the former, for my philosophy.
ABC News is the news division of one of the three major television networks in the US
I'm fairly surprised that this didn't happen sooner. Thinking about it, shouldn't this have been done when he was arrested originally? Hopefully no one else had access while he was away, but that can't be true, can it?
I think this comes back to "dead people can't object to you searching their stuff".
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I'm sure someone already did go through it.
As for the delay, well this is ultimately an operation by AG Barr who is a known liar and someone who has no issue covering for the president.
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I can only cite Orange is the New Black here, but I believe there are degrees of solitary ranging from "single occupancy cells" (adseg?) to "the hole" (Solitary-solitary).
Like how Manafort's 'solitary' confinement was probably not remotely similar to Manning's.
Nobody should be able to own a fucking island
Hey man, just con your way into a rich people party and blackmail a billionaire and you can own your own island, too. Anyone can do it! It's certainly not a sign of a broken society!
It's about 1/3 the size of a small family farm per googled statistics; it's just real estate.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I think if it was Joey No-Name I would not doubt Institutional neglect as a cause, but this wasn't Joey No-Name. This was a big name criminal with dirt on several high-profile dudes. His death isn't the kind of shit that gets mentioned in a little notice at the back of page 21 if its mentioned at all. His death is Headline News.
I find it implausible that an institution that knows that people are watching for Epstein news, that knows that Epstein has tried suicide before, knows that a shitstorm will come down on them(as has already happened) if he offs himself don't get their fucking shit together and still fails to do even the bares minimum to prevent it.
In other words the idea that even a dysfunctional institution wouldn't try to unfuck themselves when face with such a potential scandal in the making? That is equally implausible.
Neglect vs Malice, and its equal odds. Yay, what a world to live in
I live in a renovated stoveworks by a railroad crossing.
An island is an island.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I also wouldn't be surprised if the manner of his death ends up being something where a better run prison would have been able to prevent without suicide watch. As Preacher mentions, there are a few things we should have in place outside of suicide watch to prevent some of the fuck awful shit that happens in our prison system.
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Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
We're very short on trained mental health counseling in the prison system. We should be doing better. Doing better right now means turning a profit.
Really, we've monetized everything a government should provide it's people to the point it feels less like a country sometimes than it does a huge grift.
I suspect it is harder to enforce the law there though. In the same way any isolated location is.
Well, no-one is likely to drop in unexpectedly.
The least-shitty parts of CBP/ICE are the ones that are devoted to combating trafficking and child exploitation... the same parts that have been underfunded as of late, not coincidentally.
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They seem to have redefined "child trafficking" as "crossing the border with a child and no visa" and left pedos like Epstein quite unbothered.
Not saying he was murdered, but, he was murdered
the klept is real
Simultaneously increases both the odds of negligence and murder.
Enough training to give enough of a fuck to see if a man is hanging himself I suppose
I'm sure they'll settle around a narrative eventually, they've trained their brains to handle massive amounts of cognitive dissonance, but it's a small, bitter comfort.
Oh, and my prediction: Epstein committed suicide; some clerk will be blamed for it, 20-30 years from now a tape will surface showing orders from on high came down to talk Epstein into it and make sure that no one was around to stop it. Strategic incompetence is the most common form of actual conspiracy; because it's already supported by natural entropy.