Valve is doing the same thing. Yes, making money tempers their design decisions in the games, but only in that they want to release something that gleams. Also, I think it's clear from Half-Life 2: Episode 2 that they've still got a hell of a lot of mileage to go from cinematic linearity. You might think it's getting stale, and all power to you, but Valve sold one hell of a lot of copies of the Orange Box. Half-Life 2 and it's Episodes have been a spectacular financial success, and unless Half-Life 2: Episode 3 is about Gordon waking up from the bad dream of the previous games and then solving physics problems for the next four hours, then they'll continue making a ludicrous amount of money.
Finally, Valve seem to be acutely aware of the potential problem you mentioned about having to constantly do new stuff. Here's the thing. From Half-Life 2, to Half-Life 2: Episode 1, to Half-Life 2: Episode 2, each has had a fantastic catalogue of unique sequences that the others didn't do. Given what's been set up for Half-Life 2: Episode 3, I believe they'll continue down this path.
I don't really think Valve's cinematic linearity is looking dated, just the implementation. Long sections with relatively little character interaction were good in the past since voice-acting and animation was expensive. Valve's new move seems to be towards refining the cinematic experience to be more engaging - more movie like. If you compare the amount of player interaction with NPCs from HL2 to Ep1 to Ep2 the amount of interaction and engagement with NPCs has gone up dramatically - you never feel alone pretty much.
I want to make a game that's like GTA meets Oblivion, where these schoolkids (bunch of chubby nerds, outcasts at their school) fall through some portal that takes them to a fantasy land where there are no rules, they train and learn to fight and are treated like kings. They're free to roam wherever they like, into any building, talk to any NPC, get jobs, hire people, work for people, do anything. All completely non-linear.
I call it "A Band of Pricks".
Or, more seriously, if we do actually want to get a mod together, I'll be around on msn later on today for some chatting.
Are online Co-op mods particularly hard to do in Source? Because, you know, HL2's art assets lend themselves quite nicely to a group of people trekking through some prettily-lit post-apocalyptic wasteland, fighting off bandits and distributing ammo... But I suppose that's quite close to Left4Dead's concept, really.
Oh, the things which could be done with Ep2's car...
I've held on to one idea that I had, but it'd be way out of scope for most mod teams. I do like the idea of giving the player a single detailed environment to play in, rather than effectively walking down a perpetual corridor.
Especially if you pull the tricks that Adam Foster did with Minerva: Metastasis, where you use every available inch of a map - horizontally and vertically - for something. I do like the idea of a nice big explorable environment.
I'd still love to design and work out this idea I had for something set entirely in a relatively small house. Like, not an FPS, no guns or real monsters or anything, but you're someone who's exploring this house and trying to figure out what's actually going on, why you're there in the first place (and not like those "escape the room!" Flash games that have you solving contrived puzzles to open a cupboard), with the whole focus being on story and atmosphere.
It's something I'll be making on my own, if I ever get round to it.
I'd still love to design and work out this idea I had for something set entirely in a relatively small house. Like, not an FPS, no guns or real monsters or anything, but you're someone who's exploring this house and trying to figure out what's actually going on, why you're there in the first place (and not like those "escape the room!" Flash games that have you solving contrived puzzles to open a cupboard), with the whole focus being on story and atmosphere.
It's something I'll be making on my own, if I ever get round to it.
Sounds a bit like the indie adventure game Scratches. Only that wasn't continuos first person (collection of screens that you 'moved' through. Very old skool in that respect). Still had a pretty awesome atmosphere to it, at least I felt.
Sounds interesting.. I might read up some more about that. I like the idea of giving the player a minimal briefing as to why they're there in the first place, and letting them attach their own meaning to it, like asking whose house it actually is, why they're here exploring it, and uncovering the story through their exploration.
So, thanks to this thread, I finally started playing through the Episodes, taking a break from my prior diet of Vampire, Fallout Tactics, and X-Com.
Holy Shite.
- "All right, let's get on the elevator. . . oh look! Piece of falling debris! Oh look! Elevator broken! Ha ha ha! Now let's see the cutscene where Alyx and I wake up and. . . oh. I was supposed to catch that. And now we're dead.
- "Oh. So that's where those flying ball thingies from Portal came from."
- "So you expect me to fight zombies in the dark. Not just the dark. PITCH BLACK dark. And Alyx doesn't have a flashlight, so I need to keep the light on the zombies so she can see. . . fuck, battery's out. All right, Alyx, let's hide in this corner here and wait for my battery to recharge. . ."
- "Holy crap, where did she learn to snipe like that?"
- "Man, Valve needs to get together with Universal Studios or Six Flags or Disney Land or something and release "Sitting In A Car And Getting Flung Over A Chasm by Dog And Then Plummeting Through the Guts Of The Citadel: The Ride.""
- ". . . is there room for two in my hazard suit? Is she coming on to me?"
So, thanks to this thread, I finally started playing through the Episodes, taking a break from my prior diet of Vampire, Fallout Tactics, and X-Com.
Holy Shite.
- "Man, Valve needs to get together with Universal Studios or Six Flags or Disney Land or something and release "Sitting In A Car And Getting Flung Over A Chasm by Dog And Then Plummeting Through the Guts Of The Citadel: The Ride.""
Yes. They do. They really do. That sequence lasted all of a few seconds but for me it's probably the closest any game has come to reflecting an actual roller-coaster ride. I think a lot of it had to do with the sense of momentum and the way Alyx is juddering around with the motion of the car. They got the reactions just right.
I think you guys should do a drag racing mod for HL2.
See what I did there?
This Vortigaunt dude is a way better companion than Alyx. I am having so much more fun with him. I swear he said something about a Grim Pinata or similar when I squished a maggot with my crowbar. Plus he gives it all sarcastic about being so excited to see the legendary freeman at work solving door opening puzzles and uses that as an excuse not to, you know, actually help (I get the impression the Valve are becoming somewhat self-conscious about their level designs). That and his ability to singlehandedly rape an entire room of zombines and antilions. EP2 > EP1.
I think you guys should do a drag racing mod for HL2.
See what I did there?
This Vortigaunt dude is a way better companion than Alyx. I am having so much more fun with him. I swear he said something about a Grim Pinata or similar when I squished a maggot with my crowbar.
He says that when you first open up one of those web 'caches' and all the goodies pop out.
I found it funny when you wander across a baricaded corpse with a shotgun next to it and he's like "Ah. An eternity's repose. It brings peaceful thoughts, does it not?" The fact that he's completely oblivious to the implications makes it so funny when he says that.
The vortigaunt was my favorite companion in any shooter ever, I believe. That guy was awesome. Great lines + awesome voice acting + solves all the puzzles for me + wisecracking + kicks butt. I never worried about him dying, and I only kept him in sight to watch all the awesome stuff he does.
What was that one line? "No pit would be complete without a Freeman in it" or something? That combined with how he sticks his head out right when you're coming up was awesome.
The vortigaunt was my favorite companion in any shooter ever, I believe. That guy was awesome. Great lines + awesome voice acting + solves all the puzzles for me + wisecracking + kicks butt. I never worried about him dying, and I only kept him in sight to watch all the awesome stuff he does.
What was that one line? "No pit would be complete without a Freeman coming out of it" or something? That combined with how he sticks his head out right when you're coming up was awesome.
Fixed. I think. Either that or 'emerging from'. Love my vorti-buddy. Alyx's pitiful attempts at humour just do not compare.
Also 'I think you will be very pleased that you rescued those crates'. It's all just so inappropriate.
Especially compared to the drivel that one vortigaunt spews when you first get the airboat in the original HL2. I sat and talked to him for ages with those two humans nagging me to get a move on in the background. Interesting guy, but a lot more serious.
So I'm trying for Episode 2's Puttin' on a Clinic achievement. Can someone explain how this is supposed to be done? I hit the helicopter with bullets for ages and it wouldn't die. I tried it's bombs only but it never game me the achievement. What exactly am I supposed to do?
The vortigaunt was my favorite companion in any shooter ever, I believe. That guy was awesome. Great lines + awesome voice acting + solves all the puzzles for me + wisecracking + kicks butt. I never worried about him dying, and I only kept him in sight to watch all the awesome stuff he does.
What was that one line? "No pit would be complete without a Freeman coming out of it" or something? That combined with how he sticks his head out right when you're coming up was awesome.
Fixed. I think. Either that or 'emerging from'. Love my vorti-buddy. Alyx's pitiful attempts at humour just do not compare.
Also 'I think you will be very pleased that you rescued those crates'. It's all just so inappropriate.
Especially compared to the drivel that one vortigaunt spews when you first get the airboat in the original HL2. I sat and talked to him for ages with those two humans nagging me to get a move on in the background. Interesting guy, but a lot more serious.
Definitely reminded me of the Vorti who teaches you how to use the bugbait.
So I'm trying for Episode 2's Puttin' on a Clinic achievement. Can someone explain how this is supposed to be done? I hit the helicopter with bullets for ages and it wouldn't die. I tried it's bombs only but it never game me the achievement. What exactly am I supposed to do?
I don't think it can be killed at all by bullets. And maye you missed without realising.
So I'm trying for Episode 2's Puttin' on a Clinic achievement. Can someone explain how this is supposed to be done? I hit the helicopter with bullets for ages and it wouldn't die. I tried it's bombs only but it never game me the achievement. What exactly am I supposed to do?
I don't think it can be killed at all by bullets. And maye you missed without realising.
Hey, I'd be willing to help with a Source mod. I poked around with the sdk tools for a while, mostly with the lip synch and such, made a few machinima.
I think we should make DNF, try to get it out first.
Ok, since we're all here discussing HL2, can you guys help me with a technical problem?
When trying to run EP2, I'm getting these weird graphical problems. Almost everything looks likes it's got weird little shiny red or white dots on it. It's like a texture problem or something else, I don't know.
It doesn't happen in either HL2 or EP1. And nothing I do with the video settings seems to be making it go away.
but i fully expect you both to be online when i've had breakfast
In all serousness however, I've nothing in the way of programming skills and wouldn't exactly be overly of use to any modification efforts. Forgive the reasoning, but I largely got caught up in the moment.
To yourself and darleysam though, I take my hat off to your enthusiasm.
Huh, I never thought there were so many different ideas about half life as a game. Not that any one person is right, but the half life series was always about understanding your environment, and what you would do if you were there. It pays to be curious about everything, like why are those things there, and why does this particular courtyard look this way and are those noises behind me something I should be concerned about. There are some puzzles, yes. But they're never impossible. Solving them immerses you more, not the opposite. What you get out of HL is totally dependent on how much thought you put into it.
Case in point, a friend of mine was playing half life on my PC and kind of rushed through the first half an hour. The more curious he was and the more I told him about what was going on, the more fun it was. HL doesn't have levels, it has a place, a time, and an environment.
So I'm trying for Episode 2's Puttin' on a Clinic achievement. Can someone explain how this is supposed to be done? I hit the helicopter with bullets for ages and it wouldn't die. I tried it's bombs only but it never game me the achievement. What exactly am I supposed to do?
I don't think it can be killed at all by bullets. And maye you missed without realising.
Posts
with some time to get used to the source engine
i might even be able to program as well
team effort and all that
Hi5 all round.
hi5 for everybody
I don't really think Valve's cinematic linearity is looking dated, just the implementation. Long sections with relatively little character interaction were good in the past since voice-acting and animation was expensive. Valve's new move seems to be towards refining the cinematic experience to be more engaging - more movie like. If you compare the amount of player interaction with NPCs from HL2 to Ep1 to Ep2 the amount of interaction and engagement with NPCs has gone up dramatically - you never feel alone pretty much.
c++ that shit, carcharodontosaurus!
MOD TEAM ASSEMBLE
alright now
let's do this
MOD TEAM ASSEMBLE
Design is law!
Oh wait, I jinxed it
i had this awesome idea a while ago called corporate takeover
but i am open to suggestions
I call it "A Band of Pricks".
Or, more seriously, if we do actually want to get a mod together, I'll be around on msn later on today for some chatting.
but i fully expect you both to be online when i've had breakfast
Fertilised.
Oh, the things which could be done with Ep2's car...
It's something I'll be making on my own, if I ever get round to it.
Sounds a bit like the indie adventure game Scratches. Only that wasn't continuos first person (collection of screens that you 'moved' through. Very old skool in that respect). Still had a pretty awesome atmosphere to it, at least I felt.
Holy Shite.
- "Oh. So that's where those flying ball thingies from Portal came from."
- "So you expect me to fight zombies in the dark. Not just the dark. PITCH BLACK dark. And Alyx doesn't have a flashlight, so I need to keep the light on the zombies so she can see. . . fuck, battery's out. All right, Alyx, let's hide in this corner here and wait for my battery to recharge. . ."
- "Holy crap, where did she learn to snipe like that?"
- "Man, Valve needs to get together with Universal Studios or Six Flags or Disney Land or something and release "Sitting In A Car And Getting Flung Over A Chasm by Dog And Then Plummeting Through the Guts Of The Citadel: The Ride.""
- ". . . is there room for two in my hazard suit? Is she coming on to me?"
Yes. They do. They really do. That sequence lasted all of a few seconds but for me it's probably the closest any game has come to reflecting an actual roller-coaster ride. I think a lot of it had to do with the sense of momentum and the way Alyx is juddering around with the motion of the car. They got the reactions just right.
See what I did there?
This Vortigaunt dude is a way better companion than Alyx. I am having so much more fun with him. I swear he said something about a Grim Pinata or similar when I squished a maggot with my crowbar. Plus he gives it all sarcastic about being so excited to see the legendary freeman at work solving door opening puzzles and uses that as an excuse not to, you know, actually help (I get the impression the Valve are becoming somewhat self-conscious about their level designs). That and his ability to singlehandedly rape an entire room of zombines and antilions. EP2 > EP1.
He says that when you first open up one of those web 'caches' and all the goodies pop out.
I found it funny when you wander across a baricaded corpse with a shotgun next to it and he's like "Ah. An eternity's repose. It brings peaceful thoughts, does it not?" The fact that he's completely oblivious to the implications makes it so funny when he says that.
Fixed. I think. Either that or 'emerging from'. Love my vorti-buddy. Alyx's pitiful attempts at humour just do not compare.
Also 'I think you will be very pleased that you rescued those crates'. It's all just so inappropriate.
Especially compared to the drivel that one vortigaunt spews when you first get the airboat in the original HL2. I sat and talked to him for ages with those two humans nagging me to get a move on in the background. Interesting guy, but a lot more serious.
Definitely reminded me of the Vorti who teaches you how to use the bugbait.
I don't think it can be killed at all by bullets. And maye you missed without realising.
Yeah. I killed it with it's own bombs, no misses, Achievement Earned.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/digitalarcanist/stats/HL2:EP2
I think we should make DNF, try to get it out first.
When trying to run EP2, I'm getting these weird graphical problems. Almost everything looks likes it's got weird little shiny red or white dots on it. It's like a texture problem or something else, I don't know.
It doesn't happen in either HL2 or EP1. And nothing I do with the video settings seems to be making it go away.
Any ideas?
In all serousness however, I've nothing in the way of programming skills and wouldn't exactly be overly of use to any modification efforts. Forgive the reasoning, but I largely got caught up in the moment.
To yourself and darleysam though, I take my hat off to your enthusiasm.
Case in point, a friend of mine was playing half life on my PC and kind of rushed through the first half an hour. The more curious he was and the more I told him about what was going on, the more fun it was. HL doesn't have levels, it has a place, a time, and an environment.
He has a gun and a beard and he knows how to use it!
But yes.
Oh man you know what? I must have read the achievement 25 times at least and I was misreading it as "without any missiles".
Band of Brothers?
But that bottom shop is from Dreamcatcher. Which is... a really... bad movie. Really bad. Worse than you are imagining right now as you read this.