Nobby was a battlefield scavenger and sold his outfit's weapons when he was quartermaster
His introductory scene is him checking for unlocked properties on his beat so he can nick stuff
His time in the traffic department included dressing up as an old lady and crossing the road very slowly while Colon gave parking tickets to the ensuing traffic jam
He's only tolerated by Vimes because of his street smarts
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited April 10
and?
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited April 10
I mentioned Jim Rockford when I was rattling off TV detectives to rank in my post!
I've also never seen Columbo, which is fucked up now that I think about it, because everything I know about him makes him sound like my kind of character
I also was unaware of the exact wording of the poem
The way I see it, there are five fundamental qualities that go into ranking a TV detective.
Effective: If you can't get the job done, what good are you? Rated from 0 (never solves a case) to 20 (unbeatable crime-stopping machine); rated in double-steps (because this is especially important) Compassionate: Do they take care of people, foster positive relationships, and see people as a case or as a person? Rated from 0 (your stereotypical "cold genius" archetypes) to 10 (kindhearted superheroes). Cop: Are they a cop? Rated from 0 (actively antagonistic towards police) to -10 (active serving member of a police force) Flexible: You need to be adaptive to a variety of situations to be a great TV detective. Rated 0 (trapped in a mold, almost restrictively so), to 10 (capable of fitting into any situation, any setting, and any case) Entertaining: This is TV, after all. Rated from 0 (universally panned) to 10 (a legend of the medium)
It is my theory that if you apply this metric across the board, you'll find most TV detectives fall into a predictable bell curve.
Jim Rockford, for instance...
Effective: 10 He generally solves the case, but, as was correctly pointed out, at a high price. That all balances out to a nice, round 10/20. Compassionate: 6 Try as he might, he can't help but care for people. Not the warmest and most welcoming, but he does have a heart of gold at the end of the day. Cop: -3 Actively antagonistic towards most police, but does have friends within the force. Flexible: 8 A smooth operator if ever there was one. Not the guy you'd want in a gunfight, but from fistfights to interrogations, he keeps his cool and blends in effortlessly. Entertaining: 10 The quintessential "lovable mess of an antihero detective," he defined a generation of TV detectives, with stylistic touches that are still used today.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 30 Just above the curve.
Columbo, meanwhile:
Effective: 20 He knows you did it before you did it. And he knows the one thing that's going to get you. Compassionate: 5 We don't get much of a glimpse of a social life; purports to have a wife and family, but these may be fabrications. 5 is a reasonable facsimile of a rating here. Cop: -5 Actively serving member of the police force, but ethical and with little regard for his position. (Revised from -10; explanation below!) Flexible: 7 A world-class cook with an encyclopedic knowledge, and a cunning ability to be underestimated. Not the most flexible, but (appropriately enough) deceptively flexible. Entertaining: 10 Again, a legend of the medium. His influence cannot be denied.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 37 Again, a strong entry, ahead of the curve.
I also was unaware of the exact wording of the poem
I completely agree that ACAB, but in the case of homicide detectives at least, if I were using your scale I'd probably tweak it to be less of a strict "are they a cop" and more "are they a cop and how much do they abuse that power".
Like with Columbo, I think it's fine to dock him points for being part of that system, but not the full 10 because he's pretty straightforward/honest about his position and doesn't hold it over people, as far as that goes. More of a -5 or -6 (compared to like half the characters The Wire, who would rate around a -40).
I completely agree that ACAB, but in the case of homicide detectives at least, if I were using your scale I'd probably tweak it to be less of a strict "are they a cop" and more "are they a cop and how much do they abuse that power".
Like with Columbo, I think it's fine to dock him points for being part of that system, but not the full 10 because he's pretty straightforward/honest about his position and doesn't hold it over people, as far as that goes. More of a -5 or -6 (compared to like half the characters The Wire, who would rate around a -40).
This is probably a fair adjustment to the metric.
After an internal review, the new guideline is "A member of a police force is an automatic -5 minimum, with how noble a cop you are rated from -5 to -10. Non-cops can still achieve a rating of -5 or below, depending on how intrinsically tied to the police force they are."
Which bumps Columbo from a 32 to realistically a 37, considerably ahead of the curve and likely one of the highest results on the field. Which feels right.
In high school I had a friend who was really into Monk and he told me Monk's grandparents died in some sort of radioactive accident while experimenting with one of the earliest nuclear reactors
We just debated this, and this is what we determined:
Effective: 16 Universally gets his culprit, but is prone to chase after a red herring on his way to the catch. Compassionate: 4 Deeply loves the people he loves. Generally dislikes people outside of that. Cop: -5 Is not literally a cop, but paid for by the police. Wants to be a police officer. Flexible: 4 Ends up in a huge variety of situations. NEVER wants to be there. Entertaining: 8 Hugely influential in defining the "USA Network Characters Welcome" detective genre. A wonderful performance by Tony Shaloub, marred by some considerable insensitivity that was common of the time.
I completely agree that ACAB, but in the case of homicide detectives at least, if I were using your scale I'd probably tweak it to be less of a strict "are they a cop" and more "are they a cop and how much do they abuse that power".
Like with Columbo, I think it's fine to dock him points for being part of that system, but not the full 10 because he's pretty straightforward/honest about his position and doesn't hold it over people, as far as that goes. More of a -5 or -6 (compared to like half the characters The Wire, who would rate around a -40).
This is probably a fair adjustment to the metric.
After an internal review, the new guideline is "A member of a police force is an automatic -5 minimum, with how noble a cop you are rated from -5 to -10. Non-cops can still achieve a rating of -5 or below, depending on how intrinsically tied to the police force they are."
Which bumps Columbo from a 32 to realistically a 37, considerably ahead of the curve and likely one of the highest results on the field. Which feels right.
I think that's a great way to measure it, and I'm sure the ghost of Columbo appreciates it (although I'm sure he'd have just one more question about it).
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited April 10
Are we judging Jessica Fletcher's effectiveness by how well she solves the murders, or by how well she prevents the small English village she lives in from having the highest per capita murder rate on the planet despite knowing most of the victims and murderers personally ahead of time? Because one of those scores is much higher than the other.
Columbo is the anti-DM. He's the player who takes the DM's perfectly crafted storyline and cracks it over his knee with a series of impeccably timed crit insight checks.
@Dex Dynamo first of all, you gotta give her a ding dang spin -- there's a bunch of seasons of murder, she wrote streaming on amazon prime right now!
as for ratings:
effective: 17 jessica fletcher will absolutely get the killer in the end, but she has a habit of getting in way too over her head because of her snooping. compassionate: 10 her greatest asset is her compassion; she will help anyone out of a jam -- particularly her constantly being framed for murder nephew, grady cop: -3 she absolutely has no respect for the police if they get in her way/disagree with her, but has too many cop friends to overlook. flexible: 6 jessica fletcher will flourish in any scenario you drop her in, but her toolset is solely dedicated to murders and no other crimes. entertaining: 10 angela lansbury is an absolute delight, there are no tools in her kit she doesn't bust out at least once over the course of the show, and the universal appeal of a sassy older lady solving crimes can never be underplayed.
Are we judging Jessica Fletcher's effectiveness by how well she solves the murders, or by how well she prevents the small English village she lives in from having the highest per capita murder rate on the planet despite knowing most of the victims and murderers personally ahead of time? Because one of those scores is much higher than the other.
1. she lives in new england: cabot cove! in maine!
2. most of the cases she solves are not in her hometown. like, i can only think of a handful
3. how dare you
"Dex Dynamo" first of all, you gotta give her a ding dang spin -- there's a bunch of seasons of murder, she wrote streaming on amazon prime right now!
as for ratings:
effective: 8 jessica fletcher will absolutely get the killer in the end, but she has a habit of getting in way too over her head because of her snooping. compassionate: 10 her greatest asset is her compassion; she will help anyone out of a jam -- particularly her constantly being framed for murder nephew, grady cop: 3 she absolutely has no respect for the police if they get in her way/disagree with her, but has too many cop friends to overlook. flexible: 6 jessica fletcher will flourish in any scenario you drop her in, but her toolset is solely dedicated to murders and no other crimes. entertaining: 10 angela lansbury is an absolute delight, there are no tools in her kit she doesn't bust out at least once over the course of the show, and the universal appeal of a sassy older lady solving crimes can never be underplayed.
final score: 36 just the absolute best
That would put her roughly on par with Columbo (who I could see being a 6 in Flexibility for the same reason) which feels right
Are we judging Jessica Fletcher's effectiveness by how well she solves the murders, or by how well she prevents the small English village she lives in from having the highest per capita murder rate on the planet despite knowing most of the victims and murderers personally ahead of time? Because one of those scores is much higher than the other.
1. she lives in new england: cabot cove! in maine!
2. most of the cases she solves are not in her hometown. like, i can only think of a handful
3. how dare you
Oh, man, I fucked up. I got major chunks of her character mixed up with Miss Marple.
Sorry, Rorshach Kringle. Sorry, Jessica Fletcher.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited April 10
Also on a tangentially related note, even though the Simpsons sort of made him a cultural pariah that is inextricably linked to senile old folks, Matlock is a perfectly entertaining show about basically an old man Phoenix Wright.
He's a defense attorney who goes out and finds the real culprit!
"Dex Dynamo" first of all, you gotta give her a ding dang spin -- there's a bunch of seasons of murder, she wrote streaming on amazon prime right now!
as for ratings:
effective: 8 jessica fletcher will absolutely get the killer in the end, but she has a habit of getting in way too over her head because of her snooping. compassionate: 10 her greatest asset is her compassion; she will help anyone out of a jam -- particularly her constantly being framed for murder nephew, grady cop: 3 she absolutely has no respect for the police if they get in her way/disagree with her, but has too many cop friends to overlook. flexible: 6 jessica fletcher will flourish in any scenario you drop her in, but her toolset is solely dedicated to murders and no other crimes. entertaining: 10 angela lansbury is an absolute delight, there are no tools in her kit she doesn't bust out at least once over the course of the show, and the universal appeal of a sassy older lady solving crimes can never be underplayed.
final score: 36 just the absolute best
That would put her roughly on par with Columbo (who I could see being a 6 in Flexibility for the same reason) which feels right
Quick point of order! You've got Cop as a 3, but this only goes from 0 to negative 10. So this should (I'm assuming) be -3, giving her an overall score of 33. On the flipside, I'm not sure if you meant to give her an Effectiveness rating of 8, since it's out of 20 and not 10. If you meant 8/10 i.e. 16/20, you're looking at an overall score of 39.
The way I see it, there are five fundamental qualities that go into ranking a TV detective.
Effective: If you can't get the job done, what good are you? Rated from 0 (never solves a case) to 20 (unbeatable crime-stopping machine); rated in double-steps (because this is especially important) Compassionate: Do they take care of people, foster positive relationships, and see people as a case or as a person? Rated from 0 (your stereotypical "cold genius" archetypes) to 10 (kindhearted superheroes). Cop: Are they a cop? Rated from 0 (actively antagonistic towards police) to -10 (active serving member of a police force) Flexible: You need to be adaptive to a variety of situations to be a great TV detective. Rated 0 (trapped in a mold, almost restrictively so), to 10 (capable of fitting into any situation, any setting, and any case) Entertaining: This is TV, after all. Rated from 0 (universally panned) to 10 (a legend of the medium)
It is my theory that if you apply this metric across the board, you'll find most TV detectives fall into a predictable bell curve.
Jim Rockford, for instance...
Effective: 10 He generally solves the case, but, as was correctly pointed out, at a high price. That all balances out to a nice, round 10/20. Compassionate: 6 Try as he might, he can't help but care for people. Not the warmest and most welcoming, but he does have a heart of gold at the end of the day. Cop: -3 Actively antagonistic towards most police, but does have friends within the force. Flexible: 8 A smooth operator if ever there was one. Not the guy you'd want in a gunfight, but from fistfights to interrogations, he keeps his cool and blends in effortlessly. Entertaining: 10 The quintessential "lovable mess of an antihero detective," he defined a generation of TV detectives, with stylistic touches that are still used today.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 30 Just above the curve.
Columbo, meanwhile:
Effective: 20 He knows you did it before you did it. And he knows the one thing that's going to get you. Compassionate: 5 We don't get much of a glimpse of a social life; purports to have a wife and family, but these may be fabrications. 5 is a reasonable facsimile of a rating here. Cop: -10 Actively serving member of the police force. Flexible: 7 A world-class cook with an encyclopedic knowledge, and a cunning ability to be underestimated. Not the most flexible, but (appropriately enough) deceptively flexible. Entertaining: 10 Again, a legend of the medium. His influence cannot be denied.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 32 Again, a strong entry, ahead of the curve.
where can I watch the Rockford Files these days anyway
IMDb TV, which is accessible through the Amazon Prime video app without a subscription (1st season available), or watchable online (the entire series)
Idk, I'd give Columbo a -8 for being a cop at the most. He doesn't dress like a cop, he's never on time. He has no regard for appearing like police or treating people as a cop might. He drives with an expired license, and has seemingly no knowledge of road safety/laws in the episode where he has to get a driving test. I can't imagine he was good as a beat cop at all and was probably promoted just to get him out of his department.
I also was unaware of the exact wording of the poem
In the meantime, I read/watched a bunch of Poirot stuff last year, so based on my hazy recollection here's my rating! (Feel free to point out what I might have missed.)
Effectiveness: 18 Holy shit is he ever. He's a master of reading people and has an incredible eye for finding the relevance of even the tiniest physical clue. He gets 2 points off because there are times where he already knows what happened but strings things out just for the thrill of the hunt. Compassionate: 4 Kind of like Monk. He's not a total recluse like Holmes, but he's definitely aloof and tends to approach most cases as a puzzle to be solved more than anything. He can read people, but doesn't have a ton of individual empathy. Cop: -1 He'd generally prefer the cops to just get out of his way, and treats them more like servants than anything else. He might be friendly with some people on the force? But I get the impression that's mostly so they'll keep asking him to come do his thing. Edit: He does claim that he used to be a cop in Brussels, but his whole past is pretty shady so it's hard to say what he really got up to. Flexibility: 9 Possibly his greatest asset. Not only can he solve any type of crime, he's pretty much ready to go at a moment's notice. In Murder on the Orient Express he's on the train by total chance when the murder happens, and immediately he's just like "okay yes let's get this shit." He also prides himself on basically thinking outside the box, letting his intuition guide him wherever things lead. Entertainingness: 6 So I actually like Poirot a lot, but sometimes he comes off a little dry and maybe a little too perfect/all-knowing. The fact that he's always confident and in control is kind of dull at times.
Final score: 36. Feels about right for him. He should probably get some points for the mustache, so add at your discretion.
Someone needs to make a show about a detective whose just dog shit. Like they solve 1 in 20 crimes. Real obvious shit too where you're just screaming at the TV screen telling him the butler did it and he's like "welp, another unsolved mystery."
How does Remington Steele rate? I don't remember enough about the show to decide.
Also The Equalizer is sort of a detective, what about him? Talking about the original show, not the movie.
Can I request a review and rating of the Shawn Spencer / Burton Guster duo
I'm eating dinner rn, but I will revisit this
But i do think it is important to note: Very low cop, despite working with police, because they are, at the same time, actively grifting money FROM the police.
Posts
nobby is clean, just very very dumb
and unwashed
His introductory scene is him checking for unlocked properties on his beat so he can nick stuff
His time in the traffic department included dressing up as an old lady and crossing the road very slowly while Colon gave parking tickets to the ensuing traffic jam
He's only tolerated by Vimes because of his street smarts
Oh yeah??? Well I missed that and apologize!
Columbo dumps his cheese right into the eggs and whisks them together when making an omelette. That is good.
Effective: If you can't get the job done, what good are you? Rated from 0 (never solves a case) to 20 (unbeatable crime-stopping machine); rated in double-steps (because this is especially important)
Compassionate: Do they take care of people, foster positive relationships, and see people as a case or as a person? Rated from 0 (your stereotypical "cold genius" archetypes) to 10 (kindhearted superheroes).
Cop: Are they a cop? Rated from 0 (actively antagonistic towards police) to -10 (active serving member of a police force)
Flexible: You need to be adaptive to a variety of situations to be a great TV detective. Rated 0 (trapped in a mold, almost restrictively so), to 10 (capable of fitting into any situation, any setting, and any case)
Entertaining: This is TV, after all. Rated from 0 (universally panned) to 10 (a legend of the medium)
It is my theory that if you apply this metric across the board, you'll find most TV detectives fall into a predictable bell curve.
Jim Rockford, for instance...
Effective: 10 He generally solves the case, but, as was correctly pointed out, at a high price. That all balances out to a nice, round 10/20.
Compassionate: 6 Try as he might, he can't help but care for people. Not the warmest and most welcoming, but he does have a heart of gold at the end of the day.
Cop: -3 Actively antagonistic towards most police, but does have friends within the force.
Flexible: 8 A smooth operator if ever there was one. Not the guy you'd want in a gunfight, but from fistfights to interrogations, he keeps his cool and blends in effortlessly.
Entertaining: 10 The quintessential "lovable mess of an antihero detective," he defined a generation of TV detectives, with stylistic touches that are still used today.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 30 Just above the curve.
Columbo, meanwhile:
Effective: 20 He knows you did it before you did it. And he knows the one thing that's going to get you.
Compassionate: 5 We don't get much of a glimpse of a social life; purports to have a wife and family, but these may be fabrications. 5 is a reasonable facsimile of a rating here.
Cop: -5 Actively serving member of the police force, but ethical and with little regard for his position. (Revised from -10; explanation below!)
Flexible: 7 A world-class cook with an encyclopedic knowledge, and a cunning ability to be underestimated. Not the most flexible, but (appropriately enough) deceptively flexible.
Entertaining: 10 Again, a legend of the medium. His influence cannot be denied.
Total score (from -10 to 50): 37 Again, a strong entry, ahead of the curve.
IMDb TV, which is accessible through the Amazon Prime video app without a subscription (1st season available), or watchable online (the entire series)
John Cassavetes just bludgeoned Blythe Danner to death!
Like with Columbo, I think it's fine to dock him points for being part of that system, but not the full 10 because he's pretty straightforward/honest about his position and doesn't hold it over people, as far as that goes. More of a -5 or -6 (compared to like half the characters The Wire, who would rate around a -40).
This is probably a fair adjustment to the metric.
After an internal review, the new guideline is "A member of a police force is an automatic -5 minimum, with how noble a cop you are rated from -5 to -10. Non-cops can still achieve a rating of -5 or below, depending on how intrinsically tied to the police force they are."
Which bumps Columbo from a 32 to realistically a 37, considerably ahead of the curve and likely one of the highest results on the field. Which feels right.
We just debated this, and this is what we determined:
Effective: 16 Universally gets his culprit, but is prone to chase after a red herring on his way to the catch.
Compassionate: 4 Deeply loves the people he loves. Generally dislikes people outside of that.
Cop: -5 Is not literally a cop, but paid for by the police. Wants to be a police officer.
Flexible: 4 Ends up in a huge variety of situations. NEVER wants to be there.
Entertaining: 8 Hugely influential in defining the "USA Network Characters Welcome" detective genre. A wonderful performance by Tony Shaloub, marred by some considerable insensitivity that was common of the time.
Final Score: 27 Just above the curve.
hard to say; while i'm culturally familiar with J-Fletch, I've never truly dug into Murder, She Wrote
where would you rate her, @Rorshach Kringle
I think that's a great way to measure it, and I'm sure the ghost of Columbo appreciates it (although I'm sure he'd have just one more question about it).
Columbo is the anti-DM. He's the player who takes the DM's perfectly crafted storyline and cracks it over his knee with a series of impeccably timed crit insight checks.
as for ratings:
effective: 17 jessica fletcher will absolutely get the killer in the end, but she has a habit of getting in way too over her head because of her snooping.
compassionate: 10 her greatest asset is her compassion; she will help anyone out of a jam -- particularly her constantly being framed for murder nephew, grady
cop: -3 she absolutely has no respect for the police if they get in her way/disagree with her, but has too many cop friends to overlook.
flexible: 6 jessica fletcher will flourish in any scenario you drop her in, but her toolset is solely dedicated to murders and no other crimes.
entertaining: 10 angela lansbury is an absolute delight, there are no tools in her kit she doesn't bust out at least once over the course of the show, and the universal appeal of a sassy older lady solving crimes can never be underplayed.
final score: 40 just the absolute best
1. she lives in new england: cabot cove! in maine!
2. most of the cases she solves are not in her hometown. like, i can only think of a handful
3. how dare you
That would put her roughly on par with Columbo (who I could see being a 6 in Flexibility for the same reason) which feels right
Oh, man, I fucked up. I got major chunks of her character mixed up with Miss Marple.
Sorry, Rorshach Kringle. Sorry, Jessica Fletcher.
He's a defense attorney who goes out and finds the real culprit!
what a strange shirt
Quick point of order! You've got Cop as a 3, but this only goes from 0 to negative 10. So this should (I'm assuming) be -3, giving her an overall score of 33. On the flipside, I'm not sure if you meant to give her an Effectiveness rating of 8, since it's out of 20 and not 10. If you meant 8/10 i.e. 16/20, you're looking at an overall score of 39.
okay yeah that's what i meant for sure
i don't read nothing
e: adjusting my score accordingly, i got j.b. fletch at 40
Idk, I'd give Columbo a -8 for being a cop at the most. He doesn't dress like a cop, he's never on time. He has no regard for appearing like police or treating people as a cop might. He drives with an expired license, and has seemingly no knowledge of road safety/laws in the episode where he has to get a driving test. I can't imagine he was good as a beat cop at all and was probably promoted just to get him out of his department.
Effectiveness: 18 Holy shit is he ever. He's a master of reading people and has an incredible eye for finding the relevance of even the tiniest physical clue. He gets 2 points off because there are times where he already knows what happened but strings things out just for the thrill of the hunt.
Compassionate: 4 Kind of like Monk. He's not a total recluse like Holmes, but he's definitely aloof and tends to approach most cases as a puzzle to be solved more than anything. He can read people, but doesn't have a ton of individual empathy.
Cop: -1 He'd generally prefer the cops to just get out of his way, and treats them more like servants than anything else. He might be friendly with some people on the force? But I get the impression that's mostly so they'll keep asking him to come do his thing. Edit: He does claim that he used to be a cop in Brussels, but his whole past is pretty shady so it's hard to say what he really got up to.
Flexibility: 9 Possibly his greatest asset. Not only can he solve any type of crime, he's pretty much ready to go at a moment's notice. In Murder on the Orient Express he's on the train by total chance when the murder happens, and immediately he's just like "okay yes let's get this shit." He also prides himself on basically thinking outside the box, letting his intuition guide him wherever things lead.
Entertainingness: 6 So I actually like Poirot a lot, but sometimes he comes off a little dry and maybe a little too perfect/all-knowing. The fact that he's always confident and in control is kind of dull at times.
Final score: 36. Feels about right for him. He should probably get some points for the mustache, so add at your discretion.
Also The Equalizer is sort of a detective, what about him? Talking about the original show, not the movie.
I'm eating dinner rn, but I will revisit this
But i do think it is important to note: Very low cop, despite working with police, because they are, at the same time, actively grifting money FROM the police.