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Congressional Investigations Into Trump White House

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    It's really amazing how fast the federal government completely collapses once one party realizes they can get away with anything if they don't experience shame.

    Like that's my take away from this shit show; trump is doing stuff that no other president would have even considered because of how fundamentally wrong it was, but the fucker is effectively able to ignore any consequences for his actions and stuff the most ridiculously corrupt people imaginable into places to help facilitate it and the seante blitely stands by and let's it happen.

    Political norms are important but they are also weak in the face of a lack of social mechanisms to enforce them.

    And it's pretty clear by now that the electorates in democracies are simply utterly incapable of enforcing any sort of adherence to those norms or values. They care too much about their side winning.

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    DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    It's really amazing how fast the federal government completely collapses once one party realizes they can get away with anything if they don't experience shame.

    Like that's my take away from this shit show; trump is doing stuff that no other president would have even considered because of how fundamentally wrong it was, but the fucker is effectively able to ignore any consequences for his actions and stuff the most ridiculously corrupt people imaginable into places to help facilitate it and the seante blitely stands by and let's it happen.

    Political norms are important but they are also weak in the face of a lack of social mechanisms to enforce them.

    And it's pretty clear by now that the electorates in democracies are simply utterly incapable of enforcing any sort of adherence to those norms or values. They care too much about their side winning.

    I hope America still has democrat elections after a few months of Trump unleashed. Because it looks like all checks and balances are gone.

    Dirtmuncher on
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    RaijuRaiju Shoganai JapanRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    The blatantly obvious dismantling of government institutions and brazen corruption of these offices and courts are most definitely a feature and not a bug with this administration. Trump's base elected him to do these exact things to stick their thumb in the eye of deep state big government and pwn the libs, because it's awesome and it means their tribe is winning to the detriment of everyone else.

    Raiju on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Part of the Southern Strategy is unifying those people who are upset that The North won. They will absolutely continue to move in the direction that essentially reverses that outcome.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    It's really amazing how fast the federal government completely collapses once one party realizes they can get away with anything if they don't experience shame.

    Like that's my take away from this shit show; trump is doing stuff that no other president would have even considered because of how fundamentally wrong it was, but the fucker is effectively able to ignore any consequences for his actions and stuff the most ridiculously corrupt people imaginable into places to help facilitate it and the seante blitely stands by and let's it happen.

    It's two parts. The party to not feel shame, and the electorate to not give a damn.

    Don't give a shit if it's media narratives, people being more shitty than once thought, or just general apathy. Fact is, they wouldn't be doing so if they didn't have the implicit support of 40+% of the country, and in enough areas to make sure they've got ~50%+1 of the voteshare in government.

    It's really fucked that a country founded on, and proud of*, the ideals of democracy and the rule of law, has more than an insignificant minority of people who will flagrantly shit on those ideals when it benefits them to do so.

    * to the point of obnoxiousness sometimes.

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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Subtle.
    donald trump: Congratulations to Attorney General Bill Barr for taking charge of a case that was totally out of control and perhaps should not have even been brought. Evidence now clearly shows that the Mueller Scam was improperly brought & tainted. Even Bob Mueller lied to Congress!

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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Goddamn

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    And now we move into the open dictatorship/violence phase of facism.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Subtle.
    donald trump: Congratulations to Attorney General Bill Barr for taking charge of a case that was totally out of control and perhaps should not have even been brought. Evidence now clearly shows that the Mueller Scam was improperly brought & tainted. Even Bob Mueller lied to Congress!

    So out of control it... successfully convinced twelve peers of Roger Stone's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    moniker wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Subtle.
    donald trump: Congratulations to Attorney General Bill Barr for taking charge of a case that was totally out of control and perhaps should not have even been brought. Evidence now clearly shows that the Mueller Scam was improperly brought & tainted. Even Bob Mueller lied to Congress!

    So out of control it... successfully convinced twelve peers of Roger Stone's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Clearly they were all in on it.

    That's not a joke. If I were a juror on that case, I would legit be concerned for my safety as this escalates.

    Edit: hell, typing "roger stone trial juror" has a Washington Post piece by one of them, presumably under their real name.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I wonder if Susan Collins is disappointed.


    "Susan Collins is very, very disappointed."
    - Millennial Politics is a progressive YouTube channel.
    And that really troubles her.

    You own this, Senator Collins. You and the other 51 Senators of your party who chose to give this fucker carte blanche (no surprise he's grabbing it with both hands) to do what he wants. And the 195 Republican Congresspeople who did so too.

    I just wish you would receive even a fraction of the suffering that Trump is going to inflict on people, especially if he's gifted (because he doesn't fucking deserve it) a second term.

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    FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    Collins should have just become a school librarian. At least then the level of emotion she portrays would meet the crimes she witnesses.

    You know, like not paying the $0.25 fee when printing off your homework.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    People should stop asking Collins if she’s disappointed and start asking her if she made a mistake not voting for witnesses or for voting to acquit. Really make her own it.

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    Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    People should stop asking Collins if she’s disappointed and start asking her if she made a mistake not voting for witnesses or for voting to acquit. Really make her own it.

    They should really ask something like "Given the gravity of your error, when do you plan to apologize to the American people? When can we expect your resignation?"



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Figgy wrote: »
    Collins should have just become a school librarian. At least then the level of emotion she portrays would meet the crimes she witnesses.

    You know, like not paying the $0.25 fee when printing off your homework.

    As a school librarian I take offense at this post. She would be an absolutely terrible school librarian and we do not make students pay to print anything.

    Librarian's ghost on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    Collins should have just become a school librarian. At least then the level of emotion she portrays would meet the crimes she witnesses.

    You know, like not paying the $0.25 fee when printing off your homework.

    As a school librarian I take offense at this post. She would be an absolutely terrible school librarian and we do not make students pay to print anything.

    She is a Republican so would presumably "fix" that problem

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    Collins should have just become a school librarian. At least then the level of emotion she portrays would meet the crimes she witnesses.

    You know, like not paying the $0.25 fee when printing off your homework.

    As a school librarian I take offense at this post. She would be an absolutely terrible school librarian and we do not make students pay to print anything.

    I wouldn't trust her with interlibrary loan, let alone admin rights to OCLC.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Yesterday, Bill Barr gave a speech criticizing progressive DAs who seek reduced punishment times for various crimes as "ignoring the rule of law."

    Just in case it wasn't obvious enough to anyone yet that these folks think everyone else needs to be bound by the law, but that they get to ignore it.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Congress really should look into noted anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist Giuliani

    https://www.newsweek.com/giuliani-calls-ny-prosecutors-assholes-idiots-who-are-motivated-jealousy-says-my-attitude-1478930
    Giuliani was also critical of philanthropist George Soros, a Holocaust survivor who has found himself at the center of many political conspiracy theories including his alleged level of influence over the FBI and the U.S. State Department.

    "Don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic if I oppose him," Giuliani said. "Soros is hardly a Jew. I'm more of a Jew than Soros is. I probably know more about—he doesn't go to church, he doesn't go to religion—synagogue. He doesn't belong to a synagogue, he doesn't support Israel, he's an enemy of Israel. He's elected eight anarchist DA's in the United States. He's a horrible human being."

    Giuliani also claimed that Soros installed former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. "[Soros] put all four ambassadors there," Giuliani said. "And he's employing the FBI agents."
    Giuliani also said he trusted his former associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman who were arrested trying to leave the country in October because they looked like "Miami people."

    "I know a lot of Miami people that look like that that are perfectly legitimate and act like them. Neither one of them have ever been convicted of a crime. Neith one. And generally that's my cutoff point, because if you do it based on allegations and claims and—you're not gonna work with anybody. Particularly in business," Giuliani said.
    So what other criminals is he working with?

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Yesterday, Bill Barr gave a speech criticizing progressive DAs who seek reduced punishment times for various crimes as "ignoring the rule of law."

    Just in case it wasn't obvious enough to anyone yet that these folks think everyone else needs to be bound by the law, but that they get to ignore it.

    again, I can't ironically awesome that. jfc.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Clinton-era DOJ IG notes that the judge is now well within her rights to drag the DOJ before her and demand an explanation:
    The remedy is that it’s completely within Judge Jackson’s power to call a hearing and find out what the hell is going on. She now has two sentencing memos that conflict with each other. If I’m the judge, I want to know what explains this irregularity.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/12/trump-openly-corrupts-doj-former-insider-sounds-alarm/?outputType=amp

    With sentencing scheduled for next Thursday (20 Feb), one imagines that would happen soonish if at all.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    Yep. This is basically why they're lifetime appointments... monarchs used to do this shit all the time.

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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    Yep. This is basically why they're lifetime appointments... monarchs used to do this shit all the time.

    It's why the GOP has been focusing on installing their judges to maintain their influence despite a declining base.

    Edit:
    Changed for clarity

    GONG-00 on
    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    Yep. This is basically why they're lifetime appointments... monarchs used to do this shit all the time.

    It's why the TOP has been focusing on installing their judges to maintain their influence despite a declining base.

    TOP? A typo?

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    Yep. This is basically why they're lifetime appointments... monarchs used to do this shit all the time.

    It's why the TOP has been focusing on installing their judges to maintain their influence despite a declining base.

    TOP? A typo?

    Trump's Own Party is more accurate.

    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
    xu257gunns6e.png
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    And incredibly useless when people are trying to understand what you're saying.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Odds are she'd just get told (especially as a woman and an Obama appointee), "STFD, STFU, and do as the Boss commands, or you're gone too."

    She's a Federal judge. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure she'd need to be removed via impeachment and nobody has the 60 votes for that. She is fairly insulated.

    Trump can commute the sentence and there isn't much she can do about it but he can't fire her.

    67 votes in the Senate. After Pelosi decides to draft Articles against her. Which... there aren't enough laughing emoji on the internet to express myself adequately to that suggestion

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    The GOP desires one party rule and the dismantling of government

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Disco11 wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    Yes. Issuing a pardon to someone crime-ing on your behalf is a huge problem and abuse of the pardon power. It's also a lot more reassuring in comparison to making DOJ an extension of the Republican Party.

    moniker on
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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Also accepting the pardon carries an admission of guilt.

    Trump and Barr giving him a Get Out Of Jail Free card, while corrupt as fuck, doesn't carry the same caveates.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Also accepting the pardon carries an admission of guilt.

    Trump and Barr giving him a Get Out Of Jail Free card, while corrupt as fuck, doesn't carry the same caveates.

    Does admitting guilt actually matter if conservatives don't care? It's not like it's going to prevent him from doing what he's been doing. Frankly, the only way I can see to stop him from going and committing more crimes is to put in in jail.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Also accepting the pardon carries an admission of guilt.

    Trump and Barr giving him a Get Out Of Jail Free card, while corrupt as fuck, doesn't carry the same caveates.

    That doesn't really matter, aside from Appeals. He was convicted as guilty and is currently a felon.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    Because Trump was able to successfully demonstrate his control of the criminal justice system, which is a pretty significant expansion of direct Presidential power. The point is power. And money.

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    A pardon involves the one being pardoned accepting responsibility and admitting guilt. Not sure we can check those boxes off with Stone.

    There's a real distinct possibility that Judge Jackson shrugs all this off and says, "Whatever, eight years." Then Trump can commute the sentence to 0 days.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    The main problem with yesterday's events wasn't that Roger Stone is going to get off with likely very few consequences. The problem is that this demonstrates that criminal proceedings are a purely political affair henceforth

    I don't understand why though.... Can't he just have issued a pardon? Won't he be doing that anyway?

    A pardon involves the one being pardoned accepting responsibility and admitting guilt. Not sure we can check those boxes off with Stone.

    There's a real distinct possibility that Judge Jackson shrugs all this off and says, "Whatever, eight years." Then Trump can commute the sentence to 0 days.

    Before this bullshit started, like last Thursday, I saw lawyerly speculation that Jackson would feel some pressure to be lenient because she had clashed with Stone during the trial over twitter use and such like. Pretty safe to say all that is completely off the table now.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    All of which was because Stone wouldn't stop fucking around.
    And now we see, none of them will.
    (Well, we knew that, but it's been thoroughly confirmed.)

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