The Night's Watch is a weird but very fun sidegame to the main thing, but they are absolutely meant to stir the pot and bully factions into deals. Whether that's good or bad for the game is certainly up for debate.
If this gets run again in any form, or if any of you all ever get a chance to play the real game during a live event, I recommend trying Night's Watch. It's pretty interesting.
yeah, I’d def be into trying out the night watch. from the perspective of a knight (who... didn’t read the nights watch rules) i had no idea when the watch wanted or did anything aside from when they helped attack us for being too conquesty. it was all a big question mark until I finally read their rules two turns ago, when you started talking about special building powers and not getting turned into an other and I was like excuse me
Oh man, from a Lord's perspective, when I read their rules before the game began, I thought "I have to get them on my side." Even then, we still had to be reminded to ask for some of their actions, like inspiration, etc. (not that we actually won any battles using them, ha ha.)
Yeah, I also think in person you would always know what relics and chain powers were in play. That was kind of hard to figure out.
It also lead to a case where I was told after the fact my orders wouldn't work that way (didnt know/forgot about the maximum of support actions) when I attacked Tarth. In real time, I would of been told my mistake and been able to force march my armies to cover other flanks. Oh well.
We're just lucky still that was our only military cock-up rules wise. Some of those other Houses still have horror stories, ha ha.
0
Options
Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
+1
Options
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
Boomthorkell on
+1
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I was prepared to be steadfastly loyal throughout the game and only betray those that had betrayed us first.
Hear me Roar.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
Options
Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
we actually had multiple breaks in our official alliance
Each of them more nerve-wracking than the last. The final break was the only time I was glad we were going last in the initiative order, poor Floosevelt had to write up an entirely separate set of orders for the case where Gardner attacked us.
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also we made a play for Hoare lands early because we had to secure one of our two major borders.
Also Zonugal was the head of Hoare and I would have been awaiting the inevitable knife in my back the entire game if I tried to play nice.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+1
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
we actually had multiple breaks in our official alliance
Each of them more nerve-wracking than the last. The final break was the only time I was glad we were going last in the initiative order, poor Floosevelt had to write up an entirely separate set of orders for the case where Gardner attacked us.
That would have been a magical end to the game. Alas, it took a Targaryen (and apparently Hoare) betrayal to pull ahead. So long as someone winds by something underhanded.
0
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
By the way, this is how the longest stable alliance began.
+1
Options
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
I’m not sure I can really say It’s such a shame that you simply had to take action to establish and maintain multiple alliances with different dynamics that enabled you to win the game
Also to be fair the power balance between Hoare and Targaryen was not the same as Martell Gardener. We needed someone to watch our back, and they help.
With Gardener, it felt like they just gave up trying to win themselves. But, after hearing their side of things I see why they did what they did. Same with Martell.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
Hmm, why not stick with the Mistwood then sack the reach, then call me to stab a larger Durrandon (It's not like I'm going to stab a weaker Kingdom)? I understood your position more, though. It was Gardener, who didn't benefit much at all from Durrandon's resources, or you gaining power, that really confused things there. Like, I liked Hoare and Arryn, and Durrandon, but if any of them ever approached that level of territorial control, I would have stabbed them or reached out to people better placed to. Even I wanted to invade your iron mines, ha ha.
0
Options
Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
And because I see people were talking about them after I went to bed last night, here are our final turn links and relics:
Maester:
-Links:
Steel (forestry): Gain +1 Lumber during Harvest.
Pale Steel (smithing): Gain +1 Iron during Harvest.
Lead (surveying & roads): When your armies Force March, they may move one additional space. In addition, enemy armies on lands you control take ‐1 to Give Battle in Summer.
Yellow Gold (economics): Gain +1 Gold during Harvest. Grandmaester of Fire and Industry: When you Give Battle to an army that is Opposed, gain +1 to the roll.
Platinum (chivalry): While in a land with a Grain icon, your armies gain +1 to Give Battle rolls. In addition, you may lose a raven to Arrange A Marriage with a non‐allied Maester.
Brass (animal husbandry): Gain +1 Cattle during Harvest.
Tin (agriculture): Gain +1 Grain during Harvest.
Copper (history): Once per turn, you may reroll a die roll made when you Arrange A Marriage.
Electrum (astrology): When you would normally gain a Blank X in Beauty on your Bloodlines Card, you may instead choose to make that X either Blue or Green.
-Relic Locations:
Buried in the lands of Blackwater Bay, controlled by House Targaryen
Buried in the lands of Maidenpool, controlled by House Targaryen
-Relics:
Glass Candle: Gain +1 to Forge A Link rolls. If you have the Valyrian Steel Maester link, instead gain +1 to all rolls made at the Citadel Table.
Tome of Yi-Ti: When you Harvest in Summer, gain +1 Cattle and +1 Lumber.
Dragonbinder: You may spend any one Resource card to ignore the effects of Strongholds this round.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
I’m not sure I can really say It’s such a shame that you simply had to take action to establish and maintain multiple alliances with different dynamics that enabled you to win the game
sounds like you played the game!
Ha ha, it was fun, but I wanted to fight more people. I like fairness and egalitarian conflict...everyone deserves the dragon's flame. I will say that hilarious and epic "Ride of the Dragonmaidens" would not have happened without it, though.
Arynn selling us out to Stark on turn 1 ish was something I called in chat. Not being able to pay them back for it more directly is my only regret.
For what it’s worth, you definitely got us back by crippling the war effort against Targaryen.
And the main reason we didn’t do anything was because we genuinely didn’t know you were going to get attacked, then when it was clear that was going to hurt you worse than expected, I didn’t want to pull forces away from the war with Targaryen because I fully expected them to destroy us the moment we let up for even a turn.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
I’m not sure I can really say It’s such a shame that you simply had to take action to establish and maintain multiple alliances with different dynamics that enabled you to win the game
sounds like you played the game!
Ha ha, it was fun, but I wanted to fight more people. I like fairness and egalitarian conflict...everyone deserves the dragon's flame. I will say that hilarious and epic "Ride of the Dragonmaidens" would not have happened without it, though.
We were kinda right there with you, Everyone wanted to kill us and very few people wanted to be our friends. We were laughed at when we suggested people stab their friends on our behalf. Our plan from the start was to rush Targys and start a bloody chaotic fight, but then we ended up in an entrenched land war on all fronts. Now that I understand the map better and Mechanics I'd definitely play a less land based army game and more of a raid everyone and make them pay me to stop style.
Arynn selling us out to Stark on turn 1 ish was something I called in chat. Not being able to pay them back for it more directly is my only regret.
For what it’s worth, you definitely got us back by crippling the war effort against Targaryen.
And the main reason we didn’t do anything was because we genuinely didn’t know you were going to get attacked, then when it was clear that was going to hurt you worse than expected, I didn’t want to pull forces away from the war with Targaryen because I fully expected them to destroy us the moment we let up for even a turn.
At that moment, it was a war of annihilation, lol. It took many turns for even High Command to get weary, though Ser @JusticeforPluto still wanted to fight after the Moongates. I don't even know what would have happened if Hoare hadn't taken the moongates, but I know we weren't in that great a position.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
I’m not sure I can really say It’s such a shame that you simply had to take action to establish and maintain multiple alliances with different dynamics that enabled you to win the game
sounds like you played the game!
Ha ha, it was fun, but I wanted to fight more people. I like fairness and egalitarian conflict...everyone deserves the dragon's flame. I will say that hilarious and epic "Ride of the Dragonmaidens" would not have happened without it, though.
We were kinda right there with you, Everyone wanted to kill us and very few people wanted to be our friends. We were laughed at when we suggested people stab their friends on our behalf. Our plan from the start was to rush Targys and start a bloody chaotic fight, but then we ended up in an entrenched land war on all fronts. Now that I understand the map better and Mechanics I'd definitely play a less land based army game and more of a raid everyone and make them pay me to stop style.
Agreed, true Chaos. You did get that wish in a sense, as well! The Crownlands were indeed sacked, lol.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
There's nowhere else for Durradon to go.
So you could absolutely trust we were going to attack you forever and a day.
And if that didn't appeal, maybe you shouldn't have attacked.
The only difference in policy that my abdication caused is I would have pushed for raising your lands the night I left the game.
Which probably would have resulted in us losing our armies in a similar manner as what happened a few turns later.
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? @Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
0
Options
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
There's nowhere else for Durradon to go.
So you could absolutely trust we were going to attack you forever and a day.
And if that didn't appeal, maybe you shouldn't have attacked.
durrandon begins the game bordering 4 houses. martell borders 2.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
There's nowhere else for Durradon to go.
So you could absolutely trust we were going to attack you forever and a day.
And if that didn't appeal, maybe you shouldn't have attacked.
Well, I get when they demanded 2/3 territories rejecting it totally, but we can't be totally genocidal. There's always somewhere to go (like into me or Gardener or Lannister).
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? @Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
That double oppose was the very first link we took and I am so glad.
Then everyone around us got double purples on brawn and we despaired.
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? @Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
That double oppose was the very first link we took and I am so glad.
Then everyone around us got double purples on brawn and we despaired.
It's so sad we couldn't use those to better effect.
House Hoare and Targaryen have the single longest sequence of a stable alliance of any two houses for the entire game.
Did we? Ah, I suppose Martell and Gardener did have a break that one turn. How purple was your bloodline by the end game?
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me ruing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
There's nowhere else for Durradon to go.
So you could absolutely trust we were going to attack you forever and a day.
And if that didn't appeal, maybe you shouldn't have attacked.
durrandon begins the game bordering 4 houses. martell borders 2.
How long did that take to change?
And I believe we were pushing against another house until your invasion cut off that front.
So we either attack you, or attack Targ for no reason and get completely wiped out as every border becomes hostile.
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Also to be fair the power balance between Hoare and Targaryen was not the same as Martell Gardener. We needed someone to watch our back, and they help.
With Gardener, it felt like they just gave up trying to win themselves. But, after hearing their side of things I see why they did what they did. Same with Martell.
I think it can be easy to view it that way from your position, but in my eyes as Knight Martell, Gardner was absolutely a regional power until the threefold blow of:
Targaryen coming south to route them from Durrandon lands
The Faith Militant appearing (and sacking strongholds of theirs)
Hoare absolutely mercilessly raiding them
(sorry all i do is post lists now that I can't give knight orders anymore)
That brought them low with a quickness, but we were on fairly equal footing for a long time, and each had enough to gain from stability on our border that it never turned into a hot war, regardless of several times it came close. Why would they attack the only remaining regional power? after that, with the faith and Hoare crawling all over their lands? It's a play sure, but I don't think it's hard to understand why they didn't go that route.
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? @Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
Zonugal and I discussed who he was mad at every turn and I did something about it. He didn't have much care for how or when it was done, just that it got done eventually. We were on the same page from the start so I think that probably helped in my autonomy. We'd generally have some back and forth about options but when it came to putting down the steel he just let me do.
+2
Options
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
@Kayne Red Robe generally consulted us all on matters of alliance, but had the final say. I didn't know most of what was going on in the politicking of the lords and I was happy to keep it that way, because I wanted to embrace my role on the team (and because I really like the politicking part and didn't want to horn in, really). I'd say he gave me very general military strategy but left all the tactics up to me, with only occasional requests of army allocations to certain efforts and specific territories to try and keep or hold; I don't think I ever failed to follow through on any of these specific requests, unless I recommended against it
the dynamic of upkeep was absolutely reversed, though. I'd be like "I can disband up to two armies, if I need to, just let me know" and he'd be like NO WE'RE FEEDING THEM ALL AND ALSO A SIXTH ONE AND WE'RE GOING TO MUSTER TO MAX EVERY TURN
+1
Options
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Other knights, how much input did you have on who you fought? @Boomthorkell generally gave me a long leash, always asking my opinion and advice on allies and alliances. Generally I think I got my way, but there were a few times he had reign me in and remind me who worn the crown (I thought we had the Arryns beat, but I also did not know about the double oppose ability their forts had).
Zonugal and I discussed who he was mad at every turn and I did something about it. He didn't have much care for how or when it was done, just that it got done eventually. We were on the same page from the start so I think that probably helped in my autonomy. We'd generally have some back and forth about options but when it came to putting down the steel he just let me do.
Posts
Oh man, from a Lord's perspective, when I read their rules before the game began, I thought "I have to get them on my side." Even then, we still had to be reminded to ask for some of their actions, like inspiration, etc. (not that we actually won any battles using them, ha ha.)
Listen. If I had had one on you, I would have used it too, just for chaos and getting to write ridiculous things about your house.
We’re good.
We're just lucky still that was our only military cock-up rules wise. Some of those other Houses still have horror stories, ha ha.
Bit of pot/kettle with the moralizing about how we should break our alliance eh Boom? :P
we actually had multiple breaks in our official alliance
The difference was, mainly I didn't want my alliance. I wanted to invade the Trident for ages, but had to deal with the unbreakable Southerners and Northerners. The Northerners ended, and then I hoped I could play a normal, scheming house, but I still had to play the White Knight and deal with 2.5 Kingdoms curbstomping Durrandon. Seriously, if either of you had taken me up on betraying the other, I was happy to go attack Lannister, bide some time, then re-invade the Trident and Cracklaw and Gulltown. I was honest with House Gardener that I wouldn't mind if that meant them winning in the endgame if they just dumped all their armies on your west (this was before the Hoare raids, which I actually, briefly, warned against...but then realized the alliance probably wasn't going to break anyways.)
Seriously, my House chats are full of me rueing the fact I can't invade anyone around me because Martell and Gardener won't kill each other, even just a little.
Hear me Roar.
Each of them more nerve-wracking than the last. The final break was the only time I was glad we were going last in the initiative order, poor Floosevelt had to write up an entirely separate set of orders for the case where Gardner attacked us.
Also Zonugal was the head of Hoare and I would have been awaiting the inevitable knife in my back the entire game if I tried to play nice.
For the most part, House Hoare was incredibly loyal to their allies!
You can't go wrong as a Lord expecting the inevitable knife in your back from everyone, in one form or another.
True, ha ha, an alliance based on "they're going to kill both of us and win" is remarkably, and painfully, stable.
The problem was, I could trust that you would go elsewhere, I couldn't trust that Durrandon would not just immediately attack. Plus, every time I tried to negotiate peace with Durrandon they wouldn't budge from "give us all our land back and go fuck yourself." as a negotiating position. Contrary to what it might have looked like, our war goal was to take Mistwood and one of either Blackhaven or Greenstone, but they would never accept peace on those terms. Sooo, without being able to secure peace on one front, we were never going to open a second war front against Gardner, such is life.
That would have been a magical end to the game. Alas, it took a Targaryen (and apparently Hoare) betrayal to pull ahead. So long as someone winds by something underhanded.
By the way, this is how the longest stable alliance began.
I’m not sure I can really say It’s such a shame that you simply had to take action to establish and maintain multiple alliances with different dynamics that enabled you to win the game
sounds like you played the game!
With Gardener, it felt like they just gave up trying to win themselves. But, after hearing their side of things I see why they did what they did. Same with Martell.
Hmm, why not stick with the Mistwood then sack the reach, then call me to stab a larger Durrandon (It's not like I'm going to stab a weaker Kingdom)? I understood your position more, though. It was Gardener, who didn't benefit much at all from Durrandon's resources, or you gaining power, that really confused things there. Like, I liked Hoare and Arryn, and Durrandon, but if any of them ever approached that level of territorial control, I would have stabbed them or reached out to people better placed to. Even I wanted to invade your iron mines, ha ha.
-Links:
Steel (forestry): Gain +1 Lumber during Harvest.
Pale Steel (smithing): Gain +1 Iron during Harvest.
Lead (surveying & roads): When your armies Force March, they may move one additional space. In addition, enemy armies on lands you control take ‐1 to Give Battle in Summer.
Yellow Gold (economics): Gain +1 Gold during Harvest.
Grandmaester of Fire and Industry: When you Give Battle to an army that is Opposed, gain +1 to the roll.
Platinum (chivalry): While in a land with a Grain icon, your armies gain +1 to Give Battle rolls. In addition, you may lose a raven to Arrange A Marriage with a non‐allied Maester.
Brass (animal husbandry): Gain +1 Cattle during Harvest.
Tin (agriculture): Gain +1 Grain during Harvest.
Copper (history): Once per turn, you may reroll a die roll made when you Arrange A Marriage.
Electrum (astrology): When you would normally gain a Blank X in Beauty on your Bloodlines Card, you may instead choose to make that X either Blue or Green.
-Relic Locations:
Buried in the lands of Blackwater Bay, controlled by House Targaryen
Buried in the lands of Maidenpool, controlled by House Targaryen
-Relics:
Glass Candle: Gain +1 to Forge A Link rolls. If you have the Valyrian Steel Maester link, instead gain +1 to all rolls made at the Citadel Table.
Tome of Yi-Ti: When you Harvest in Summer, gain +1 Cattle and +1 Lumber.
Dragonbinder: You may spend any one Resource card to ignore the effects of Strongholds this round.
Ha ha, it was fun, but I wanted to fight more people. I like fairness and egalitarian conflict...everyone deserves the dragon's flame. I will say that hilarious and epic "Ride of the Dragonmaidens" would not have happened without it, though.
For what it’s worth, you definitely got us back by crippling the war effort against Targaryen.
And the main reason we didn’t do anything was because we genuinely didn’t know you were going to get attacked, then when it was clear that was going to hurt you worse than expected, I didn’t want to pull forces away from the war with Targaryen because I fully expected them to destroy us the moment we let up for even a turn.
Ha ha ha ha ha, it was a beautiful beginning.
We were kinda right there with you, Everyone wanted to kill us and very few people wanted to be our friends. We were laughed at when we suggested people stab their friends on our behalf. Our plan from the start was to rush Targys and start a bloody chaotic fight, but then we ended up in an entrenched land war on all fronts. Now that I understand the map better and Mechanics I'd definitely play a less land based army game and more of a raid everyone and make them pay me to stop style.
The Lannisters.
At that moment, it was a war of annihilation, lol. It took many turns for even High Command to get weary, though Ser @JusticeforPluto still wanted to fight after the Moongates. I don't even know what would have happened if Hoare hadn't taken the moongates, but I know we weren't in that great a position.
Agreed, true Chaos. You did get that wish in a sense, as well! The Crownlands were indeed sacked, lol.
There's nowhere else for Durradon to go.
So you could absolutely trust we were going to attack you forever and a day.
And if that didn't appeal, maybe you shouldn't have attacked.
The only difference in policy that my abdication caused is I would have pushed for raising your lands the night I left the game.
Which probably would have resulted in us losing our armies in a similar manner as what happened a few turns later.
durrandon begins the game bordering 4 houses. martell borders 2.
Well, I get when they demanded 2/3 territories rejecting it totally, but we can't be totally genocidal. There's always somewhere to go (like into me or Gardener or Lannister).
That double oppose was the very first link we took and I am so glad.
Then everyone around us got double purples on brawn and we despaired.
It's so sad we couldn't use those to better effect.
How long did that take to change?
And I believe we were pushing against another house until your invasion cut off that front.
So we either attack you, or attack Targ for no reason and get completely wiped out as every border becomes hostile.
I think it can be easy to view it that way from your position, but in my eyes as Knight Martell, Gardner was absolutely a regional power until the threefold blow of:
(sorry all i do is post lists now that I can't give knight orders anymore)
That brought them low with a quickness, but we were on fairly equal footing for a long time, and each had enough to gain from stability on our border that it never turned into a hot war, regardless of several times it came close. Why would they attack the only remaining regional power? after that, with the faith and Hoare crawling all over their lands? It's a play sure, but I don't think it's hard to understand why they didn't go that route.
Zonugal and I discussed who he was mad at every turn and I did something about it. He didn't have much care for how or when it was done, just that it got done eventually. We were on the same page from the start so I think that probably helped in my autonomy. We'd generally have some back and forth about options but when it came to putting down the steel he just let me do.
@Kayne Red Robe generally consulted us all on matters of alliance, but had the final say. I didn't know most of what was going on in the politicking of the lords and I was happy to keep it that way, because I wanted to embrace my role on the team (and because I really like the politicking part and didn't want to horn in, really). I'd say he gave me very general military strategy but left all the tactics up to me, with only occasional requests of army allocations to certain efforts and specific territories to try and keep or hold; I don't think I ever failed to follow through on any of these specific requests, unless I recommended against it
the dynamic of upkeep was absolutely reversed, though. I'd be like "I can disband up to two armies, if I need to, just let me know" and he'd be like NO WE'RE FEEDING THEM ALL AND ALSO A SIXTH ONE AND WE'RE GOING TO MUSTER TO MAX EVERY TURN
I was the bark, @Bendery It Like Beckham was the bite.
But yeah, I gave him full autonomy when it came to combat, simply expressing national desires to guide his military processes.
House Hoare was a passionate group.