FF6 turning pretty scattered after the world basically ends works just fine for me as part of the narrative. Fighting the Empire is what draws everybody together, then Kefka gets the power of a god and blows everything to pieces. In a very real sense, the heroes fail. It would be easy to just give up and let things stay ruined. Everybody scattering and thinking the world is lost is entirely natural and believable.
But you can get the band back together and show that loss is not defeat. It may be tough and the path may not be clear, but the important thing is to unite and keep fighting. Only then can there be a real future even in the face of ruin, as opposed to letting evil stay in control.
The plots of both 6 and 7 are basically random scattershot messes. They have strong moments, but overall they are both conglomerations of a bunch of disjointed ideas. It's rare that any individual ideas get much time or focus to develop, either.
IMO 10 was the first - and one of the few - to break this mold.
Conversely, I detested FFX for being incredibly linear and too short, after the likes of FFT, FF7-9, and Xenogears. It repeatedly sets up certain moments as these big, moving points, but has done virtually nothing to actually earn those moments. Take moments like the Tidus/Yuna love scene, the "surprise" of Seymour's betrayal, and fighting Tidus's father as Sin. The first two happen with virtually zero actual leadup; Tidus and Yuna have basically one actual scene for developing their relationship, and it's cringy as hell. We hardly know Seymour and are somehow supposed to care that he's a bad guy. Fighting Tidus's father is about the only actually "big" moment in the game that has sufficient development to mean anything, and it's just about the last thing you do.
On top of that, the game is unbelievably padded with the most tedious, grindy shit I've seen in a Final Fantasy game.
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
FF6 turning pretty scattered after the world basically ends works just fine for me as part of the narrative. Fighting the Empire is what draws everybody together, then Kefka gets the power of a god and blows everything to pieces. In a very real sense, the heroes fail. It would be easy to just give up and let things stay ruined. Everybody scattering and thinking the world is lost is entirely natural and believable.
But you can get the band back together and show that loss is not defeat. It may be tough and the path may not be clear, but the important thing is to unite and keep fighting. Only then can there be a real future even in the face of ruin, as opposed to letting evil stay in control.
The plots of both 6 and 7 are basically random scattershot messes. They have strong moments, but overall they are both conglomerations of a bunch of disjointed ideas. It's rare that any individual ideas get much time or focus to develop, either.
IMO 10 was the first - and one of the few - to break this mold.
Conversely, I detested FFX for being incredibly linear and too short, after the likes of FFT, FF7-9, and Xenogears. It repeatedly sets up certain moments as these big, moving points, but has done virtually nothing to actually earn those moments. Take moments like the Tidus/Yuna love scene, the "surprise" of Seymour's betrayal, and fighting Tidus's father as Sin. The first two happen with virtually zero actual leadup; Tidus and Yuna have basically one actual scene for developing their relationship, and it's cringy as hell. We hardly know Seymour and are somehow supposed to care that he's a bad guy. Fighting Tidus's father is about the only actually "big" moment in the game that has sufficient development to mean anything, and it's just about the last thing you do.
On top of that, the game is unbelievably padded with the most tedious, grindy shit I've seen in a Final Fantasy game.
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
Considering that it has been a trope for pretty much any JRPG since the 32-bit era on(dunno to many examples from the 16-bit ones) that if you're a high ranking person in the church you're evil(I think it's more all organized religion is evil, but I'm sure there's some good religious folks somewhere), I think it would have been a much bigger surprise if Seymour wasn't evil.
+6
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Is anyone else finding that whatever materia you have equipped for a boss is invariably useless, and the only way to win is to back out to a previous save and equip for the fight with information you had no way of knowing without Assessing the boss?
Is anyone else finding that whatever materia you have equipped for a boss is invariably useless, and the only way to win is to back out to a previous save and equip for the fight with information you had no way of knowing without Assessing the boss?
If I'm not mistaken you can just hit start and select to come back in right before the last (current) fight. So if you're set up wrong, you know in the first 30 seconds and can fix it.
There were a few times I wasn't optimized but I just pushed through it without worrying too much. Maybe one or two I had to back out because I had an element equipped to my basic attack that the enemy absorbed.
Is anyone else finding that whatever materia you have equipped for a boss is invariably useless, and the only way to win is to back out to a previous save and equip for the fight with information you had no way of knowing without Assessing the boss?
If I'm not mistaken you can just hit start and select to come back in right before the last (current) fight. So if you're set up wrong, you know in the first 30 seconds and can fix it.
There were a few times I wasn't optimized but I just pushed through it without worrying too much. Maybe one or two I had to back out because I had an element equipped to my basic attack that the enemy absorbed.
Yeah I definitely exploited this more than once. Easier than looking it up online.
I didn't really find anything on Normal that required specific setups to complete. Almost everything is winnable with weapon abilities and items, honestly.
Hard is proving to be substantially less forgiving. My usual approach of equipping stuff I want to level is consistently getting me Game Over. It's forcing me to respect it, but I have things Assessed now, so being prepared is possible if I can overcome my stubbornness...
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
The first colisseum boss gave me trouble without certain materia, but it was still doable, just took way longer than it should have.
+2
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Deadly Dodge linked to HP Absorb is ridiculous. Allows you to absorb HP with regular attacks (provided you roll before attacking). Basically turns you into a rolling vampire.
I am reminded why I loved the character of Laguna enough for my original screen name on my replay.
"It's still dangerous! And since you're such a cute little girl, the monsters will especially be after you! They'll catch you and then they'll suck all your blood out! If anything like that should happen, Uncle Laguna's gonna cry..."
Just like Ron Burgundy reminding children of the evils of voodoo.
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
Did anyone (like, seriously anyone) watch Seymour's introduction and not think 'Oh, so he's the bad guy'?
Even before Voiceover Tidus gives the "I didn't like him from the moment I saw him" speech.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+6
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
Did anyone (like, seriously anyone) watch Seymour's introduction and not think 'Oh, so he's the bad guy'?
Even before Voiceover Tidus gives the "I didn't like him from the moment I saw him" speech.
And that's before like, half an hour later, the dude's telling you "Ah, cmon, 's just a lil blasphemy, no big."
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Seymour is that one guy you know immediately is going to be the main villian but it takes all the characters in the game about 20-30 hours too late to realize it.
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
Did anyone (like, seriously anyone) watch Seymour's introduction and not think 'Oh, so he's the bad guy'?
Even before Voiceover Tidus gives the "I didn't like him from the moment I saw him" speech.
And that's before like, half an hour later, the dude's telling you "Ah, cmon, 's just a lil blasphemy, no big."
I think like, half the party was pretty down on him. Tidus definitely. I think also Auron and Kimahri. They probably didn't think he was a big of jerk as he turned out to be though.
Yeah you definitely get the sense that Seymour isn't a good guy and corrupt immediately...just not HOW corrupt.
I replayed X right before Remake released and really enjoyed it. The narrative is so focused and cohesive. It always has that steady driving force marching you towards destiny.
Imagine a jRPG with a Deadpool-like main character. With that level of medium-awareness.
[BANG]
"Why did you just shoot the Fantasy Pope in the head?! We were just getting introduced to him to get our rewards for saving that village!"
"Look, literally every pope-figure in every RPG ever has turned out to be evil. He was either secretly worshipping Satan, actually Satan in disguise, and slash or just using the trappings of the religion to control everything to his own ends. I guarantee you I just averted some kind of armageddon, and probably skipped about 30 hours of quests."
Yeah you definitely get the sense that Seymour isn't a good guy and corrupt immediately...just not HOW corrupt.
I replayed X right before Remake released and really enjoyed it. The narrative is so focused and cohesive. It always has that steady driving force marching you towards destiny.
People complain about linear game design because it's 'just a pretty corridor', but this is the upside of it. It's hard to make a focused narrative when you let your player go wherever they want.
Imagine a jRPG with a Deadpool-like main character. With that level of medium-awareness.
[BANG]
"Why did you just shoot the Fantasy Pope in the head?! We were just getting introduced to him to get our rewards for saving that village!"
"Look, literally every pope-figure in every RPG ever has turned out to be evil. He was either secretly worshipping Satan, actually Satan in disguise, and slash or just using the trappings of the religion to control everything to his own ends. I guarantee you I just averted some kind of armageddon, and probably skipped about 30 hours of quests."
Yeah you definitely get the sense that Seymour isn't a good guy and corrupt immediately...just not HOW corrupt.
I replayed X right before Remake released and really enjoyed it. The narrative is so focused and cohesive. It always has that steady driving force marching you towards destiny.
People complain about linear game design because it's 'just a pretty corridor', but this is the upside of it. It's hard to make a focused narrative when you let your player go wherever they want.
I mean, not literally. I can think of a couple examples.
Imagine a jRPG with a Deadpool-like main character. With that level of medium-awareness.
[BANG]
"Why did you just shoot the Fantasy Pope in the head?! We were just getting introduced to him to get our rewards for saving that village!"
"Look, literally every pope-figure in every RPG ever has turned out to be evil. He was either secretly worshipping Satan, actually Satan in disguise, and slash or just using the trappings of the religion to control everything to his own ends. I guarantee you I just averted some kind of armageddon, and probably skipped about 30 hours of quests."
Yeah you definitely get the sense that Seymour isn't a good guy and corrupt immediately...just not HOW corrupt.
I replayed X right before Remake released and really enjoyed it. The narrative is so focused and cohesive. It always has that steady driving force marching you towards destiny.
People complain about linear game design because it's 'just a pretty corridor', but this is the upside of it. It's hard to make a focused narrative when you let your player go wherever they want.
Give me a Cautious Hero JRPG.
+2
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Getting towards the end of FFVIIR
Yay! Red XIII joined my party!
Immediately followed by
Psyche! You can't control him, give him commands, change his gear, or even look at his stats in the menu. He's basically a summon that doesn't listen to you and never goes away.
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Ok. Finally beat FFVIIR. Can somebody explain the ending?
I was totally lost from the moment
Sephiroth appears in the road after the motorcycle bit
+1
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
As far as I understand it
there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.
Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.
An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.
Oh brilliant
+5
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.
Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.
An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.
I've got some disagreement there.
From all indications, there is only one single version of Sephiroth in the game, and he already knows how everything will play out. This Sephiroth suggests he's been basically to the end of time as part of the planet and doesn't like where it leaves him, but he's definitely from the future made by the events of the original FF7 game. He's executing his part of the story that gets things moving with JENOVA but he's also controlling the Whispers somehow in order to change events in his favor; the Whispers, however, still are attempting to steer events towards the original story (this is explicitly why the President stays dead when Sephiroth kills him, but the Whispers revive Barret when he is killed). Any multiples of Sephiroth is just him manifesting via Hojo's experimental subjects that were infused with JENOVA cells, which is also how Sephiroth is connected to Cloud; these are still part of Future Sephiroth, though, who seems to have wholly replaced the "contemporary" Sephiroth. This is a power Sephiroth was shown to have in the original game, where the actual physical Sephiroth is embedded in solid materia and has been influencing the world by controlling his clones and sending visions (mostly to Cloud).
Then Sephiroth seems to swipe the Whisper mojo and open some sort of crack in reality, which is presumably a future in which he can influence things to his advantage. Aerith, who seems to have at least partial awareness of the situation (and has suggestions of being completely aware, but is just keeping it low-key), "sabotages" Sephiroth's portal by infusing it with some Cetra magic. According to her, passing through the portal at this point means nothing is certain and everything can go off the rails. They might win. Sephiroth might win. They might all lose. But the point seems to be that the Whispers are now no longer part of the equation and the future is wide open in terms of possibility, so now both Sephiroth and Aerith knows some of what will happen but don't know everything for certain.
So the future story should no longer have any involvement by fate and (very hopefully) no involvement with the Whispers, but Sephiroth will still need certain things to happen. However, none of it will be forced to happen any longer and AVALANCHE, Rufus and flunkies, Sephiroth and his clones, and everybody from Cosmo Valley could join forces and create a traveling theater if they wanted.
There also seems to be the aforementioned side-effects like Zack being alive. Some people say it's in an alternate dimension, but the story made no mention of alternate dimensions so I think Zack just survived past events that should have killed him. Multiple members of AVALANCHE that also originally died survived the falling of the plate this time around, so the story has definitely already begun creeping into the territory of becoming the wild unknown.
Or in shorter form
everything we see of Sephiroth is a Future Sephiroth who has come back in time to break history in his favor. The Whispers guard the timeline, he steals their power to break fate to help himself, and Aerith uses her power to make anything possible for the future. The future is now uncertain, and there are additional fractures like Zack still being alive, along with some of the members of Avalanche.
there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.
Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.
An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.
Sephiroth = Thanos
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
Boy did that Honey Bee sequence go places...
I was ecstatic they did the
cut them/rip them/smash them
dialogue. They did their homework.
I'm sad it wasn't as customizable though, what with deciding whether Cloud gets picked or not based on how the shopping/prep work you do goes.
cj iwakura on
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'm sad it wasn't as customizable though, what with deciding whether Cloud gets picked or not based on how the shopping/prep work you do goes.
Is it not?
there are different dresses depending on dialogue choices and sidequest completion, I believe 9 total, 3 for each candidate. Just assumed that the best dress in the group wins.
Oh brilliant
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I'm sad it wasn't as customizable though, what with deciding whether Cloud gets picked or not based on how the shopping/prep work you do goes.
Is it not?
there are different dresses depending on dialogue choices and sidequest completion, I believe 9 total, 3 for each candidate. Just assumed that the best dress in the group wins.
Ah. I just recall that the original let you do stuff like pick out a dress, hunt for make up, etc. I did all the sidequests, and it seemed like it just defaulted to the blue dress.
(I never did see the infamous hot tub scene though... maybe I missed it?)
Posts
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I'd argue the game was never even kind of trying to sell Seymour as a good guy. He was clearly signaled as a bad guy from the get go.
Considering that it has been a trope for pretty much any JRPG since the 32-bit era on(dunno to many examples from the 16-bit ones) that if you're a high ranking person in the church you're evil(I think it's more all organized religion is evil, but I'm sure there's some good religious folks somewhere), I think it would have been a much bigger surprise if Seymour wasn't evil.
If I'm not mistaken you can just hit start and select to come back in right before the last (current) fight. So if you're set up wrong, you know in the first 30 seconds and can fix it.
There were a few times I wasn't optimized but I just pushed through it without worrying too much. Maybe one or two I had to back out because I had an element equipped to my basic attack that the enemy absorbed.
Yeah I definitely exploited this more than once. Easier than looking it up online.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Hard is proving to be substantially less forgiving. My usual approach of equipping stuff I want to level is consistently getting me Game Over. It's forcing me to respect it, but I have things Assessed now, so being prepared is possible if I can overcome my stubbornness...
"It's still dangerous! And since you're such a cute little girl, the monsters will especially be after you! They'll catch you and then they'll suck all your blood out! If anything like that should happen, Uncle Laguna's gonna cry..."
Just like Ron Burgundy reminding children of the evils of voodoo.
Did anyone (like, seriously anyone) watch Seymour's introduction and not think 'Oh, so he's the bad guy'?
Even before Voiceover Tidus gives the "I didn't like him from the moment I saw him" speech.
And that's before like, half an hour later, the dude's telling you "Ah, cmon, 's just a lil blasphemy, no big."
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
I think like, half the party was pretty down on him. Tidus definitely. I think also Auron and Kimahri. They probably didn't think he was a big of jerk as he turned out to be though.
I replayed X right before Remake released and really enjoyed it. The narrative is so focused and cohesive. It always has that steady driving force marching you towards destiny.
[BANG]
"Why did you just shoot the Fantasy Pope in the head?! We were just getting introduced to him to get our rewards for saving that village!"
"Look, literally every pope-figure in every RPG ever has turned out to be evil. He was either secretly worshipping Satan, actually Satan in disguise, and slash or just using the trappings of the religion to control everything to his own ends. I guarantee you I just averted some kind of armageddon, and probably skipped about 30 hours of quests."
People complain about linear game design because it's 'just a pretty corridor', but this is the upside of it. It's hard to make a focused narrative when you let your player go wherever they want.
I mean, not literally. I can think of a couple examples.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Give me a Cautious Hero JRPG.
Immediately followed by
Raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly.
Except after the first time you're like "OKAY WE GET IT! YOU LOOK COOL, LETS GO!"
"LAB RAT DOG."
It's less about the looking cool than the silly flop on top of it.
"Yeah, we're kind of short lately, some girl has been going around robbing the local shops blind."
Meant the animation itself.
She needs to steal all their levels and gear as well.
Because she's just that good a thief.
Cloud and the gang just got really rusty in between games.
I was totally lost from the moment
Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.
An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.
I've got some disagreement there.
Then Sephiroth seems to swipe the Whisper mojo and open some sort of crack in reality, which is presumably a future in which he can influence things to his advantage. Aerith, who seems to have at least partial awareness of the situation (and has suggestions of being completely aware, but is just keeping it low-key), "sabotages" Sephiroth's portal by infusing it with some Cetra magic. According to her, passing through the portal at this point means nothing is certain and everything can go off the rails. They might win. Sephiroth might win. They might all lose. But the point seems to be that the Whispers are now no longer part of the equation and the future is wide open in terms of possibility, so now both Sephiroth and Aerith knows some of what will happen but don't know everything for certain.
So the future story should no longer have any involvement by fate and (very hopefully) no involvement with the Whispers, but Sephiroth will still need certain things to happen. However, none of it will be forced to happen any longer and AVALANCHE, Rufus and flunkies, Sephiroth and his clones, and everybody from Cosmo Valley could join forces and create a traveling theater if they wanted.
There also seems to be the aforementioned side-effects like Zack being alive. Some people say it's in an alternate dimension, but the story made no mention of alternate dimensions so I think Zack just survived past events that should have killed him. Multiple members of AVALANCHE that also originally died survived the falling of the plate this time around, so the story has definitely already begun creeping into the territory of becoming the wild unknown.
Or in shorter form
I was ecstatic they did the
I'm sad it wasn't as customizable though, what with deciding whether Cloud gets picked or not based on how the shopping/prep work you do goes.
Is it not?
Ah. I just recall that the original let you do stuff like pick out a dress, hunt for make up, etc. I did all the sidequests, and it seemed like it just defaulted to the blue dress.
(I never did see the infamous hot tub scene though... maybe I missed it?)