How is this not criminal fraud? We can put Felicity Huffman in jail for fraud but not these motherfuckers?
I wonder the same, apparently it's not illegal if it's part of a charity scheme.
Well this was a long time coming, the foundational cracks were in full view last year. Pierre and other high level administrators were clearly defrauding the enterprise to the point the NRA was running out of money. I wouldn't at all be surprised if a good chunk of this case comes from whistleblowers who had had enough. In theory this should close down a lucrative conduit for russian influence and money in US politics now. If only someone in Virginia would go after and shut down Liberty University and Falwall Jr., who's doing the exact same thing, except more sex scandals.
Dark_Side on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
What level of court would criminal fraud get handled by? If it's federal, uhhhhhh better wait a few months on that given who is in charge of the DOJ right now.
It's not based on what the crime is but who brings the case. State attorney general bringing the case means it will be in state courts.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I really have to wonder if this case isn't something to knock out a big supporter for insane police behavior and funneling stupid weaponry to cops based on drumming up fear, as part of the nationwide effort to turn the police into something more than a club for abusive assholes.
And isn't our current situation with being federally restricted from accurately tracking gun crimes due largely to the likes of the NRA lobbying to pass legislation prohibiting it? Knocking the NRA out will have to help with trying to get some rationality applied to firearm access, without them shouting down anything that threatens profits.
Also, the NY AG has to have some pretty damning stuff if they're deciding to run with something like this against the NRA, right? This isn't some piddly little Johnny-come-lately racist club or something, this is the NRA and they're calling for total dissolution. That's a hell of a big thing to swing, given how long the NRA has been around and how deeply it has wormed its way into right-wing opinion. What they have must be pretty iron-clad, or at least as iron-clad as it gets when the current president gets to avoid criminal prosecution because his political party votes against it.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
The Washington Post Article on this points that out.
The group’s bitter internal battle burst into public view in April 2019 at the NRA’s annual convention in Indianapolis, when then-NRA President Oliver North was forced out by LaPierre after pressing for an internal financial review.
The Washington Post and other news organizations subsequently revealed how the NRA directed funds to board members and how LaPierre racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges at a Beverly Hills clothing boutique and on foreign travel.
The Post also reported how, after a mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla., LaPierre told close associates he was worried about how easily he could be targeted and needed a more secure place to live and sought to buy a $6 million, 10,000-square-foot French-style country estate in Westlake, Tex.
Ollie North only approves of illicit finances when used to sell arms to foreign nations.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
I know this isn't something that just popped up, but there are obviously political ramifications and I have to wonder if they didn't decide to push the investigation now (where it will potentially help the movement for police defunding) over waiting past the presidential election (which would avoid getting the 2A crowd even more riled up than usual). That's more a curiosity thing, though.
Mostly I'm just pleased it is happening, though. The NRA has needed to die for a looooong time, particularly in a way that no amount of howling from 2nd Amendment crowds can make the slightest change in the result.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it takes a while for these things to go through the official channels, even when being expedited. NY AG Letitia James has been working at this case against the NRA (among others) since she took office. Doing a job like this properly requires a lot of time and effort.
Tweet author is the New York State Attorney General
There’s no weaseling out of this. Hopefully whatever org pops up to replace the NRA if they get dissolved is less effective.
Tweet text:
To be clear, no charity registered in NYS, including the NRA, can dissolve and relocate to another state without the approval of my office or of the Supreme Court of NY.
As long as our lawsuit continues, the NRA must stay right where it is & answer for their deep-rooted fraud.
It's troubling this has to be said because it means the NRA has either declared intent or started the attempt to try and relocate for the sake of avoiding legal ramifications. I fully expect this to get sent up to the SCOTUS.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
IIRC isn't the stat that most people with guns own one or two but people who own more have ALOT more
I don't remeber the exact numbers, but basically there's way more guns than people. Most people don't own guns, most who do own one, and most who own more than one own two (and I think it holds up for 3 and maybe even 4). The graph goes abruptly vertical on the last 1-2%.
Most gun owners (66%) say they own more than one gun, with about three-in-ten (29%) saying they own five or more guns. This is, perhaps, not surprising, considering that eight-in-ten gun owners cite more than one reason for owning a gun – including 44% who say there is more than one major reason – and may need different types of guns for different purposes. In fact, most gun owners who cite only one reason for owning a gun say they own a single gun (65%); in contrast, 74% of those who say they own a gun for more than one reason report having at least two guns.
It is a case where the people with a bunch of guns are really inflating it.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead. It died over 40 years ago. Movement conservatives and the Republican Party killed it. What’s left now is just grifters and conmen sitting on its bones hawking away the last vestiges of its cachet for a quick buck.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
This sort of pedantry is pointless and unnecessary, because it doesn't fucking matter that they're still oh-so-magnanimously offering free hunting firearm safety courses to high school students and whatever. That doesn't excuse any of the heinous shit they've been up to for decades, not just in terms of financial crimes but also, you know, serving to line the pockets of gun manufacturers at the expense of the lives of innocent Americans. No, that's not hyperbole to say. They literally use mass shootings as excuses to propagandize harder.
The NRA has made America a more dangerous country to live in. Any "responsible gun owner" should be rooting for the organization to be razed.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
There's an entire case out of SDNY about it. We been talking about it in here.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
The charging document from the Attorney General for the State of New York.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
This sort of pedantry is pointless and unnecessary, because it doesn't fucking matter that they're still oh-so-magnanimously offering free hunting firearm safety courses to high school students and whatever. That doesn't excuse any of the heinous shit they've been up to for decades, not just in terms of financial crimes but also, you know, serving to line the pockets of gun manufacturers at the expense of the lives of innocent Americans. No, that's not hyperbole to say. They literally use mass shootings as excuses to propagandize harder.
The NRA has made America a more dangerous country to live in. Any "responsible gun owner" should be rooting for the organization to be razed.
Cool, thanks for the specific numbers, it was very helpful.
@shryke@moniker thanks for the lead, I see from 2015-2018 the NRA reported a reduction of $63 million in unrestricted net assets, which I will continue to do more research to find how that impacted their educational and training outreach.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
It hasn’t been their de facto primary mission since the ‘77 coup in Cleveland
Their actual mission since then has been to turn gun ownership into another battlefield in the culture war while lining the pockets of the firearms industry and (as we now have considerable evidence of) their own leadership.
Edit: oh and also apparently to act as a cut-out for Russian spies? I almost forgot about that crazy detail.
Elldren on
fuck gendered marketing
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
That coup in 1977 was weird because it wasn't event rooted in anything really happening, not a response to any sort of legislation or whatever. Some really crazy people who regard guns as a sort of golden calf got in charge and changed it into a lobbying firm.
Irony of ironies here is if the NRA was untouched and was still all about gun safety and maintenance, I'd be all for it existing.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
That coup in 1977 was weird because it wasn't event rooted in anything really happening, not a response to any sort of legislation or whatever. Some really crazy people who regard guns as a sort of golden calf got in charge and changed it into a lobbying firm.
Irony of ironies here is if the NRA was untouched and was still all about gun safety and maintenance, I'd be all for it existing.
This is why I’m hoping the NYAG is successful in dissolving it, because then its funds and assets will be distributed to organizations that actually work to promote its original mission
Will it? I wonder if anything to do with guns has become a poisoned well in American culture. Sure, we might get rid of the NRA—and the world will be brighter for it—but whatever comes after will be same parade of grifters and madmen.
Amid last year’s financial crunch, the organization cut funds for gun training, a key purpose spelled out in the NRA charter. Spending for educating gun owners about safety and marksmanship dropped by nearly a quarter from 2017 to 2018, from $42.6 million to $32.7 million.
n 2018, the organization benefited from an increase in money from its members. The NRA recorded $170 million in dues last year, up from $128 million the prior year, according to the 2018 annual report, which was prepared by the NRA’s outside auditors. The report noted that the NRA recorded as revenue some memberships before they were collected.
Overall, the spending of the NRA and its associated groups outpaced revenue. In 2018, the NRA and its affiliates brought in $412 million and spent $423 million. In 2017, they had revenue of $378 million and spent $379 million.
The annual report, together with state filings, shows that the NRA has run a deficit for the past three years.
From The Mercury News ‘A look inside the finances of the NRA’
I just wanted numbers. I haven’t been a member since 2015, so I was interested in how their alleged main focus, education and training, suffered from their financial woes.
I see that there has been a significant reduction. So the one useful arm of the NRA has been slowly crippled.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
This sort of pedantry is pointless and unnecessary, because it doesn't fucking matter that they're still oh-so-magnanimously offering free hunting firearm safety courses to high school students and whatever. That doesn't excuse any of the heinous shit they've been up to for decades, not just in terms of financial crimes but also, you know, serving to line the pockets of gun manufacturers at the expense of the lives of innocent Americans. No, that's not hyperbole to say. They literally use mass shootings as excuses to propagandize harder.
The NRA has made America a more dangerous country to live in. Any "responsible gun owner" should be rooting for the organization to be razed.
For a given definition of "responsible" that is "agrees with you".
Also the talking point about manufacturers is just so big brained. Why exactly is it not in the interest of people who want to be able to lawfully purchase firearms that manufacturers continue to exist?
That coup in 1977 was weird because it wasn't event rooted in anything really happening, not a response to any sort of legislation or whatever. Some really crazy people who regard guns as a sort of golden calf got in charge and changed it into a lobbying firm.
Irony of ironies here is if the NRA was untouched and was still all about gun safety and maintenance, I'd be all for it existing.
This is why I’m hoping the NYAG is successful in dissolving it, because then its funds and assets will be distributed to organizations that actually work to promote its original mission
Note that there are two NRA organizations. There's the NRA Foundation, a charitable organization which handles the gun safety stuff, then there's the NRA, which handles lobbying against even the hint of gun control, getting half the country mad at them, and graft. (And stealing funds from the NRA Foundation; that's part of DC's lawsuit against the NRA. The other is illegally mixing the two boards of directors.)
That coup in 1977 was weird because it wasn't event rooted in anything really happening, not a response to any sort of legislation or whatever. Some really crazy people who regard guns as a sort of golden calf got in charge and changed it into a lobbying firm.
Irony of ironies here is if the NRA was untouched and was still all about gun safety and maintenance, I'd be all for it existing.
This is why I’m hoping the NYAG is successful in dissolving it, because then its funds and assets will be distributed to organizations that actually work to promote its original mission
Absolutely, like the GOA.
And the FPC
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
Will it? I wonder if anything to do with guns has become a poisoned well in American culture. Sure, we might get rid of the NRA—and the world will be brighter for it—but whatever comes after will be same parade of grifters and madmen.
Yeah, on the one hand gun rights has become such a culture war issue over the last 40 years. On the other hand, one wonders how much that will continue with the NRA out of the picture and perhaps some popular gun control legislation enacted.
I still suspect the Republican party will simply dig their heels in on the issue and nothing will shift on how the issue maps onto politics but we'll have to see.
This doesn't have anything to do with recent politics. This stems from documents that were leaked last year showing basically all the things the NRA is being charged with.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
This sort of pedantry is pointless and unnecessary, because it doesn't fucking matter that they're still oh-so-magnanimously offering free hunting firearm safety courses to high school students and whatever. That doesn't excuse any of the heinous shit they've been up to for decades, not just in terms of financial crimes but also, you know, serving to line the pockets of gun manufacturers at the expense of the lives of innocent Americans. No, that's not hyperbole to say. They literally use mass shootings as excuses to propagandize harder.
The NRA has made America a more dangerous country to live in. Any "responsible gun owner" should be rooting for the organization to be razed.
For a given definition of "responsible" that is "agrees with you".
Also the talking point about manufacturers is just so big brained. Why exactly is it not in the interest of people who want to be able to lawfully purchase firearms that manufacturers continue to exist?
Where in my post did I say anything about doing anything to gun manufacturers?
Posts
DC is getting in on suing over all the flagrantly illegal stuff.
I wonder the same, apparently it's not illegal if it's part of a charity scheme.
Well this was a long time coming, the foundational cracks were in full view last year. Pierre and other high level administrators were clearly defrauding the enterprise to the point the NRA was running out of money. I wouldn't at all be surprised if a good chunk of this case comes from whistleblowers who had had enough. In theory this should close down a lucrative conduit for russian influence and money in US politics now. If only someone in Virginia would go after and shut down Liberty University and Falwall Jr., who's doing the exact same thing, except more sex scandals.
And isn't our current situation with being federally restricted from accurately tracking gun crimes due largely to the likes of the NRA lobbying to pass legislation prohibiting it? Knocking the NRA out will have to help with trying to get some rationality applied to firearm access, without them shouting down anything that threatens profits.
Also, the NY AG has to have some pretty damning stuff if they're deciding to run with something like this against the NRA, right? This isn't some piddly little Johnny-come-lately racist club or something, this is the NRA and they're calling for total dissolution. That's a hell of a big thing to swing, given how long the NRA has been around and how deeply it has wormed its way into right-wing opinion. What they have must be pretty iron-clad, or at least as iron-clad as it gets when the current president gets to avoid criminal prosecution because his political party votes against it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The Washington Post Article on this points that out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-lapierre-ny-attorney-general/2020/08/06/8e389794-d794-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
Ollie North only approves of illicit finances when used to sell arms to foreign nations.
As in the case is moving forward because documents were leaked about prosecution happening? Or the case is happening because leaks caused an 18-month investigation, culminating in the current case? I'm just confused by your wording.
I know this isn't something that just popped up, but there are obviously political ramifications and I have to wonder if they didn't decide to push the investigation now (where it will potentially help the movement for police defunding) over waiting past the presidential election (which would avoid getting the 2A crowd even more riled up than usual). That's more a curiosity thing, though.
Mostly I'm just pleased it is happening, though. The NRA has needed to die for a looooong time, particularly in a way that no amount of howling from 2nd Amendment crowds can make the slightest change in the result.
The latter. The documents came out in a New Yorker article last April, amid infighting between LaPierre and Oliver North over who got to fleece their members (or something), NY state started handing out subpoenas a couple weeks later.
(Links and such on page 1, investigation in the OP, Preacher posted the New Yorker article a few posts down)
Tweet author is the New York State Attorney General
There’s no weaseling out of this. Hopefully whatever org pops up to replace the NRA if they get dissolved is less effective.
https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/daily-bulletin-nra-josh-powell-new-york-attorney-general-cuomo/
Joshua Powell, former chief of staff under Wayne LaPierre, decided now was a good time to release a tell-all book, detailing all the waste and fraud going on at the NRA over the years. Note that Joshua Powell is one of the defendants in New York's lawsuit alleging waste and fraud in the NRA, so here's hoping he actually ran that book past a lawyer at some point.
Funnier if he didn't!
I think it was weirder than that. Whether Iran-Contra scared him straight or (more likely) he's always headcanoned it as doing his job rather than breaking the law, Oliver North was allegedly taking steps to clean up the NRA (at least that's what the court filing says) but LaPierre wouldn't let anyone take his personal grift goose away from him, even if all the signs pointed to the NRA loosing everything in the not-so-distant future because of it.
I don't think there's anything weird about the idea that a lot of people would actually believe in the whole "2nd amendment" madness and so actually want the NRA to do the thing it's supposed to do.
I don't remeber the exact numbers, but basically there's way more guns than people. Most people don't own guns, most who do own one, and most who own more than one own two (and I think it holds up for 3 and maybe even 4). The graph goes abruptly vertical on the last 1-2%.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/ It is a case where the people with a bunch of guns are really inflating it.
I'm pretty sure North would have been getting his beak wet plenty, the whole NRA board is basically rotten with grift. While it's possible North realized the hinky financials meant trouble and needed house cleaning, it's just as possible he wanted the same thing LaPierre had and tried to organize a hostile takeover to consolidate power under himself.
It's exactly what he was doing. It's why Ackerman McQueen was helping him. They had the dirt, they were trying to push out LaPierre. It's why the NRA terminated the 38 year contract they had with Ackerman McQueen, despite the NRA claiming it was for a billing dispute.
Ollie North's a traitorous piece of shit who never deserves the benefit of any doubt.
And this is precisely why dissolution is the right course of action. The NRA that promoted marksmanship and gun safety and operated safe and friendly ranges for sport shooters and hunters is dead. It died over 40 years ago. Movement conservatives and the Republican Party killed it. What’s left now is just grifters and conmen sitting on its bones hawking away the last vestiges of its cachet for a quick buck.
Do you have any data or sources that suggest despite the corrupt and ineffective leadership of the NRA, that they are not continuing to promote marksmanship, gun safety, and operating safe and friendly ranges for shooters and hunters?
Because I have my issues with the NRA, yet I still see their instructors conducting training courses and still see them attempting to educate people.
This sort of pedantry is pointless and unnecessary, because it doesn't fucking matter that they're still oh-so-magnanimously offering free hunting firearm safety courses to high school students and whatever. That doesn't excuse any of the heinous shit they've been up to for decades, not just in terms of financial crimes but also, you know, serving to line the pockets of gun manufacturers at the expense of the lives of innocent Americans. No, that's not hyperbole to say. They literally use mass shootings as excuses to propagandize harder.
The NRA has made America a more dangerous country to live in. Any "responsible gun owner" should be rooting for the organization to be razed.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
There's an entire case out of SDNY about it. We been talking about it in here.
The charging document from the Attorney General for the State of New York.
Cool, thanks for the specific numbers, it was very helpful.
@shryke @moniker thanks for the lead, I see from 2015-2018 the NRA reported a reduction of $63 million in unrestricted net assets, which I will continue to do more research to find how that impacted their educational and training outreach.
It hasn’t been their de facto primary mission since the ‘77 coup in Cleveland
Their actual mission since then has been to turn gun ownership into another battlefield in the culture war while lining the pockets of the firearms industry and (as we now have considerable evidence of) their own leadership.
Edit: oh and also apparently to act as a cut-out for Russian spies? I almost forgot about that crazy detail.
Irony of ironies here is if the NRA was untouched and was still all about gun safety and maintenance, I'd be all for it existing.
This is why I’m hoping the NYAG is successful in dissolving it, because then its funds and assets will be distributed to organizations that actually work to promote its original mission
From The Mercury News ‘A look inside the finances of the NRA’
I just wanted numbers. I haven’t been a member since 2015, so I was interested in how their alleged main focus, education and training, suffered from their financial woes.
I see that there has been a significant reduction. So the one useful arm of the NRA has been slowly crippled.
For a given definition of "responsible" that is "agrees with you".
Also the talking point about manufacturers is just so big brained. Why exactly is it not in the interest of people who want to be able to lawfully purchase firearms that manufacturers continue to exist?
Absolutely, like the GOA.
And the FPC
Yeah, on the one hand gun rights has become such a culture war issue over the last 40 years. On the other hand, one wonders how much that will continue with the NRA out of the picture and perhaps some popular gun control legislation enacted.
I still suspect the Republican party will simply dig their heels in on the issue and nothing will shift on how the issue maps onto politics but we'll have to see.
Where in my post did I say anything about doing anything to gun manufacturers?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar