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[Hearthstone] THIS THREAD IS DEAD. POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Increasing health for the shittier heroes seems like a good idea in the absence of more active tuning of their powers. I wonder what their mechanism would be. Like a weekly or biweekly tweaking based on the recent performance of all heroes below average? If it turned out buffing Galakrond to 47 made him above average, would he later get pulled down to e.g., 45? Or would it be some sort of automated scaling system that auto-scales the health more regularly?

    Redesigning damage doesn't seem like a bad idea, although their current proposal is unclear to me. Does that mean you now take 4 damage in round 1 as AFK against someone who picked up a token? Do tokens still do full damage? 1 damage?
    (Edit: OK, I see now. They're saying all cards do 1 damage, but then lowering hero health to compensate so games don't go too long). It doesn't feel quite right that someone who Zereses into an early T6 Ghastcoiler or something can just start throwing out 15+ damage hits in the mid game with some lucky deathrattles, but it's hard to tell if their other idea is really any better or if it just changes which kinds of comps do blowout damage too soon.

    forty on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I don't think slightly more health for subpar heroes matters that much

    like, the hypothetical 47 health galakrond lasts one extra round maybe, and for subpar heroes who're behind early in the game the one extra round may not matter much

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    I don't think slightly more health for subpar heroes matters that much

    like, the hypothetical 47 health galakrond lasts one extra round maybe, and for subpar heroes who're behind early in the game the one extra round may not matter much
    Eh, I disagree. There is definitely a point where having more health improves your placement curve. Maybe 47 isn't it, but it was just an example. Stitches was one of the stronger picks back in the day when all he had was 60 health and no "hero power."

    forty on
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    I don't think slightly more health for subpar heroes matters that much

    like, the hypothetical 47 health galakrond lasts one extra round maybe, and for subpar heroes who're behind early in the game the one extra round may not matter much
    Eh, I disagree. There is definitely a point where having more health improves your placement curve. Maybe 47 isn't it, but it was just an example. Stitches was one of the stronger picks back in the day when all he had was 60 health and no "hero power."

    They should give stitches 60 health again. The power creep has caught up with that.

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Also it's been so long since I've seen him in Battlegrounds I forgot his name is Patchwerk and not Stitches.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    narwhalnarwhal monodon monoceros Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    Was definitely really fun! Which is why I'll make the event next week official: Battlegrounds get together, 1PM EST on September 20th. Send me a message here on the forum, or message me on discord at narwhal#1047 if you want to join us! I should be able to get my friend from today to join too, so we'll have our own private game if there's more than 4 of us! I'm not sure if that affects our ranking at all... all I know is that I tried being nice when playing against my friends and that didn't work out, so if we have a private game I won't feel bad about smooshing people's faces. Mwahaha (Dibby I'm coming to get you now)

    Narwhal#1834
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Private games are unranked.

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    sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    narwhal wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    Was definitely really fun! Which is why I'll make the event next week official: Battlegrounds get together, 1PM EST on September 20th. Send me a message here on the forum, or message me on discord at narwhal#1047 if you want to join us! I should be able to get my friend from today to join too, so we'll have our own private game if there's more than 4 of us! I'm not sure if that affects our ranking at all... all I know is that I tried being nice when playing against my friends and that didn't work out, so if we have a private game I won't feel bad about smooshing people's faces. Mwahaha (Dibby I'm coming to get you now)

    I'd be down. I may also try funny rather than good strategies.

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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    sanstodo wrote: »
    narwhal wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    Was definitely really fun! Which is why I'll make the event next week official: Battlegrounds get together, 1PM EST on September 20th. Send me a message here on the forum, or message me on discord at narwhal#1047 if you want to join us! I should be able to get my friend from today to join too, so we'll have our own private game if there's more than 4 of us! I'm not sure if that affects our ranking at all... all I know is that I tried being nice when playing against my friends and that didn't work out, so if we have a private game I won't feel bad about smooshing people's faces. Mwahaha (Dibby I'm coming to get you now)

    I'd be down. I may also try funny rather than good strategies.

    I will also have been doing a funny strategy when I lose. :bzz:



    Does anyone know how team games (non private) work for rating? Because I haven't played on NA, so my rating should still be 4k. Does it put you with the highest rated player?

    Grobian on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    narwhal wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    Was definitely really fun! Which is why I'll make the event next week official: Battlegrounds get together, 1PM EST on September 20th. Send me a message here on the forum, or message me on discord at narwhal#1047 if you want to join us! I should be able to get my friend from today to join too, so we'll have our own private game if there's more than 4 of us! I'm not sure if that affects our ranking at all... all I know is that I tried being nice when playing against my friends and that didn't work out, so if we have a private game I won't feel bad about smooshing people's faces. Mwahaha (Dibby I'm coming to get you now)

    I'd be down. I may also try funny rather than good strategies.

    Dumb strats are more fun than good ones anyway

    If they give me a choice of Maiev/Lich King/Jandy/Mukla, you bet your ass we're going to the Banana Republic

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    narwhal wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Had my first Battlegrounds party with @narwhal and her friend today! We played a few matches. It was really fun! It was really fun. Voice chat is a must!! Ya gotta be on VC during it.

    I really like it, it's a great feature. It's fun playing BGs with people on your friends list.

    Was definitely really fun! Which is why I'll make the event next week official: Battlegrounds get together, 1PM EST on September 20th. Send me a message here on the forum, or message me on discord at narwhal#1047 if you want to join us! I should be able to get my friend from today to join too, so we'll have our own private game if there's more than 4 of us! I'm not sure if that affects our ranking at all... all I know is that I tried being nice when playing against my friends and that didn't work out, so if we have a private game I won't feel bad about smooshing people's faces. Mwahaha (Dibby I'm coming to get you now)

    I'd be down. I may also try funny rather than good strategies.

    Dumb strats are more fun than good ones anyway

    If they give me a choice of Maiev/Lich King/Jandy/Mukla, you bet your ass we're going to the Banana Republic

    crzVnfN.png

    WHAT'D I SAY GANG

    WE'RE GOING TO THE BANANA REPUBLICCCCCCCC

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Dancin' Daryl? In WoW, the dancing murloc was named Murkie.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    qY4v0nP.png

    we got FOURTH

    and yknow what i made a giant righteous protector with banans and it was super fun and i still got top 4 so fuck yeah 8-)

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    That shit is bananas.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    LklAw7F.png

    Back over 8k!

    Take it from me, if you go on a crazy salt-fueled bender and lose ~1000 MMR, you too can climb back up :V

    Now I just need ~500 more MMR to get back where I was before I dropped, ha HAAA

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    It's still a bit early, so things could shift, but it looks like Omu ended up significantly better than I expected. She's riding right around the line of T1/T2 right now, which puts her ahead of all the other "you get some more gold" heroes. I didn't expect that the nature of her gold spikes (and their cap) would have her doing even better than Nozdormu, so I definitely underestimated her.

    Looks like I was right on the mark with Lord Barov, though, as he is solidly deep in T4, bottom 10 hero. His curve is significantly slanted toward 7th and 8th place finishes.

    I'm not at all surprised to see Jandice doing so well. I hugely underestimated her in my hasty first impressions post, but when Marty or someone mentioned trading out Battlecry minions, I started thinking about her and realized her power has all sorts of potential and versatility. I initially just thought of it as an ability for dumping your shittiest minion and hoping to get a better one from the tavern for free, completely missing the enormous power of having a guaranteed re-buy of any Battlecry minion in your lineup (and at a discount too since you can sell whatever gets shifted into your lineup if it's junk, or sometimes you hit the nuts and get a minion you actually wanted out of the swap). And as others have noted, she can do ridiculous shit with Pogos if she gets them early enough.

    forty on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    forty wrote: »
    It's still a bit early, so things could shift, but it looks like Omu ended up significantly better than I expected. She's riding right around the line of T1/T2 right now, which puts her ahead of all the other "you get some more gold" heroes. I didn't expect that the nature of her gold spikes (and their cap) would have her doing even better than Nozdormu, so I definitely underestimated her.

    Looks like I was right on the mark with Lord Barov, though, as he is solidly deep in T4, bottom 10 hero. His curve is significantly slanted toward 7th and 8th place finishes.

    I'm not at all surprised to see Jandice doing so well. I hugely underestimated her in my hasty first impressions post, but when Marty or someone mentioned trading out Battlecry minions, I started thinking about her and realized her power has all sorts of potential and versatility. I initially just thought of it as an ability for dumping your shittiest minion and hoping to get a better one from the tavern for free, completely missing the enormous power of having a guaranteed re-buy of any Battlecry minion in your lineup (and at a discount too since you can sell whatever gets shifted into your lineup if it's junk, or sometimes you hit the nuts and get a minion you actually wanted out of the swap). And as others have noted, she can do ridiculous shit with Pogos if she gets them early enough.

    Omu is basically better Bartendo.

    You can ramp super fucking hard while still managing to buy a minion each turn. It's pretty huge. Damage is minimal early on so you ramp and grab good T4 minions like Mechano-Egg etc while everyone else is still working on replacing their weak minions. Token minion on T1 is pretty key to that, though, or the 2/2 Pirate who's name I forgot.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Dibby wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    It's still a bit early, so things could shift, but it looks like Omu ended up significantly better than I expected. She's riding right around the line of T1/T2 right now, which puts her ahead of all the other "you get some more gold" heroes. I didn't expect that the nature of her gold spikes (and their cap) would have her doing even better than Nozdormu, so I definitely underestimated her.

    Looks like I was right on the mark with Lord Barov, though, as he is solidly deep in T4, bottom 10 hero. His curve is significantly slanted toward 7th and 8th place finishes.

    I'm not at all surprised to see Jandice doing so well. I hugely underestimated her in my hasty first impressions post, but when Marty or someone mentioned trading out Battlecry minions, I started thinking about her and realized her power has all sorts of potential and versatility. I initially just thought of it as an ability for dumping your shittiest minion and hoping to get a better one from the tavern for free, completely missing the enormous power of having a guaranteed re-buy of any Battlecry minion in your lineup (and at a discount too since you can sell whatever gets shifted into your lineup if it's junk, or sometimes you hit the nuts and get a minion you actually wanted out of the swap). And as others have noted, she can do ridiculous shit with Pogos if she gets them early enough.

    Omu is basically better Bartendo.
    Yeah, I think I noted that in my original post. But Bartendo is bad, so it's kind of hard to estimate where "better than bad" will end up.

    And yeah, I think we all noted that she's super dependent on landing a token at the start.

    forty on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    The aggressively played Omus I have seen on stream have been strong.

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    BeastehBeasteh THAT WOULD NOT KILL DRACULARegistered User regular
    this deck basically seems unfair on ladder

    ### Guardian Druid
    # Class: Druid
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (0) Innervate
    # 2x (0) Lightning Bloom
    # 2x (1) Animated Broomstick
    # 2x (1) Crystal Power
    # 2x (2) Breath of Dreams
    # 1x (3) Speaker Gidra
    # 2x (4) Overgrowth
    # 2x (5) Anubisath Defender
    # 2x (5) Lake Thresher
    # 1x (5) Teacher's Pet
    # 2x (5) Twilight Runner
    # 2x (6) Emerald Explorer
    # 2x (7) Guardian Animals
    # 2x (7) Overflow
    # 1x (9) Ysera, Unleashed
    # 1x (10) King Phaoris
    # 2x (10) Survival of the Fittest
    #
    AAECAbSKAwTYoAP2rQOSzQP1zgMN/gG5lAPvogPbpQP9rQOMrgPougOVzQO60AO80AOT0QPe0QPw1AMA
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    If you get your ramp and guardian animals early, you just create endless clown cars of horse shit that overwhelm your opponent

    phaoris is the hot new tech to vomit out yet another mass of stats onto the board

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Beasteh wrote: »
    this deck basically seems unfair on ladder

    ### Guardian Druid
    # Class: Druid
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (0) Innervate
    # 2x (0) Lightning Bloom
    # 2x (1) Animated Broomstick
    # 2x (1) Crystal Power
    # 2x (2) Breath of Dreams
    # 1x (3) Speaker Gidra
    # 2x (4) Overgrowth
    # 2x (5) Anubisath Defender
    # 2x (5) Lake Thresher
    # 1x (5) Teacher's Pet
    # 2x (5) Twilight Runner
    # 2x (6) Emerald Explorer
    # 2x (7) Guardian Animals
    # 2x (7) Overflow
    # 1x (9) Ysera, Unleashed
    # 1x (10) King Phaoris
    # 2x (10) Survival of the Fittest
    #
    AAECAbSKAwTYoAP2rQOSzQP1zgMN/gG5lAPvogPbpQP9rQOMrgPougOVzQO60AO80AOT0QPe0QPw1AMA
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    If you get your ramp and guardian animals early, you just create endless clown cars of horse shit that overwhelm your opponent

    phaoris is the hot new tech to vomit out yet another mass of stats onto the board

    yes good i'm glad Phaoris is back in the meta

    i cracked him back a while back but he's been sitting there stagnating

    time to bust him out again

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Eh0eZqMXYAI5vB_.png

    thanks, video game..............????

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    The last 3 times I've gotten 4th I've lost MMR.

    Also I just got 5th and got +0

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Biggie smalls is first place on easy if they survive into top 4. Holy shit.

    h46lo71foe3v.jpeg

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Damn, George gave you a hell of a minion.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    reduce George's HP to 2 gold when

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    ronzo wrote: »
    The last 3 times I've gotten 4th I've lost MMR.

    Also I just got 5th and got +0

    make that a 4th 4th place finish with negative MMR gain, right around 7k

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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    I'm currently on a downward rating spiral (I think I dropped 500 so far, can't get over 9k again). I probably need to think more about my plays and games to see what I do wrong.

    But sometimes you just face a Reno who gets triple token-cat on 7 gold into discover gold grubber and make it golden and then he just smashes everyone for 10+ every battle. (there were no murlocs in the game)


    Oh, that reminds me of something I thought of: What about a hero power like "[Passive] If you win a battle, deal 1 damage to every other hero"? Or even "[X gold] Deal 1 damage to every other hero". How much would that have to cost? It's probably too hard on self-damage comps (Lich/Demons) and feels unfun? Could you balance it with a lower starting health? And/or only make it available in non-demon games?

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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    Jandice needs a nerf, if she finds a single pogo the game effectively becomes "can you survive getting hit by a 100/100+ pogo turn 10-on.

    How that made it out of testing I dont understand. Probably some bullshit about how they only thought it would be used for buffers and not for crazy pogo stacks

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Damn, George gave you a hell of a minion.

    I had 2 gold grubbers and George came in with the the triple, thanks for the divine shield buddy.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    ronzo wrote: »
    Jandice needs a nerf, if she finds a single pogo the game effectively becomes "can you survive getting hit by a 100/100+ pogo turn 10-on.

    How that made it out of testing I dont understand. Probably some bullshit about how they only thought it would be used for buffers and not for crazy pogo stacks

    Managed to get my (golden, shielded, taunted) pogo to 404/408 (record for largest minion!), then met yogg (me and him are only ones left) with a bunch of poison murlocs. Brought me down to 1 hp.

    Got golden brann into amalgadon (shield, windfury) hero power to redo (poison, some other nonsense).

    Luck and divine landing on amalgadon and 1st place.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Grobian wrote: »
    I'm currently on a downward rating spiral (I think I dropped 500 so far, can't get over 9k again). I probably need to think more about my plays and games to see what I do wrong.

    But sometimes you just face a Reno who gets triple token-cat on 7 gold into discover gold grubber and make it golden and then he just smashes everyone for 10+ every battle. (there were no murlocs in the game)


    Oh, that reminds me of something I thought of: What about a hero power like "[Passive] If you win a battle, deal 1 damage to every other hero"? Or even "[X gold] Deal 1 damage to every other hero". How much would that have to cost? It's probably too hard on self-damage comps (Lich/Demons) and feels unfun? Could you balance it with a lower starting health? And/or only make it available in non-demon games?

    Given that I dropped 1000 MMR from 8.5k and then climbed back up to 8k, and that I really wasn't doing anything differently, I can tell you that the reason is sometimes you just get fucking highrolled and there's nothing you can do about it. I'm playing Maiev, a Tier 1 Hero, and I get an awful fucking start and sputter out into 7th place. Like sometimes you run up against the person that got an early triple into something really strong and you lose half your health and you have to throw your hands up and go "welp!!!"

    I've been noting if I'm doing well or not more often and if I'm behind, I stay on T3 a bit longer and shore up my weak board and just try to play for 4th. Sometimes that doesn't even work, though, but. Well, yeah, I'm Millhouse with a decent board and get paired up against Jandy in first place with a 100/100+ Pogo and it's like, might as well concede cause I'm gonna lose this one.

    Sometimes you just get got. Sometimes you do the getting. It balances out, eventually.

    This is why I'm looking forward to variable health heroes and flattened damage scaling, though. Should reduce snowballing and highrolling.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    ronzo wrote: »
    Jandice needs a nerf, if she finds a single pogo the game effectively becomes "can you survive getting hit by a 100/100+ pogo turn 10-on.

    How that made it out of testing I dont understand. Probably some bullshit about how they only thought it would be used for buffers and not for crazy pogo stacks

    This one I think is a genuine sleeper because every pro who looked at her also was like "eehh, I guess situationally useful to swap out battlecry minions? I dunno, weak overall."

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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    3clipse wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    Jandice needs a nerf, if she finds a single pogo the game effectively becomes "can you survive getting hit by a 100/100+ pogo turn 10-on.

    How that made it out of testing I dont understand. Probably some bullshit about how they only thought it would be used for buffers and not for crazy pogo stacks

    This one I think is a genuine sleeper because every pro who looked at her also was like "eehh, I guess situationally useful to swap out battlecry minions? I dunno, weak overall."

    Pros really look down on the "stay on 2 for infinite pogos" strats. What they failed to realize is that all you have to do is find a single pogo, and HP'ing it every single turn is actually worth it.

    Consistency is king in BG. I suspect if they nerf it, it will be that the swapped minion loses all of its carried/saved buffs

    ronzo on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    ronzo wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    Jandice needs a nerf, if she finds a single pogo the game effectively becomes "can you survive getting hit by a 100/100+ pogo turn 10-on.

    How that made it out of testing I dont understand. Probably some bullshit about how they only thought it would be used for buffers and not for crazy pogo stacks

    This one I think is a genuine sleeper because every pro who looked at her also was like "eehh, I guess situationally useful to swap out battlecry minions? I dunno, weak overall."

    Pros really look down on the "stay on 2 for infinite pogos" strats. What they failed to realize is that all you have to do is find a single pogo, and HP'ing it every single turn is actually worth it.

    Consistency is king in BG. I suspect if they nerf it, it will be that the swapped minion loses all of its carried/saved buffs

    Right, my point is just that I actually give Blizzard a pass for once on this because it slipped past everyone, and normally the broken stuff at least a few pros have said before release "uh hey I have concerns."

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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Lich King with Pirate Boats is so dumb.

    I started doing 30+ damage regularly because I essentially had two boards of minions

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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    I wish there was a way to voluntarily give up my bonus ranked stars. I'm stuck right at Gold 5 right now, just trading wins with people running perfect meta decks, and the x2 bonus stars aren't really helping my climb as much as not being matched against my full MMR would be right now

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    I find it very frustrating that we can't see our ladder MMR if they're going to use it for matchmaking.

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    I find it very frustrating that we can't see our ladder MMR if they're going to use it for matchmaking.
    I think blizzards information asymmetry is very frustrating in all aspects.

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