My motherboard is going. It was an ASUS ROG Crosshair 8 Hero. It lasted 2.5 years and is still under warranty.
what are the signs of a mobo going? just curious as i'm always second guessing everything else before the mobo.
The motherboard can be a culprit or not for just about anything, which is why the standard procedure is to not identify the motherboard as a problem but to rule out literally everything else.
Reseat the GPU, reseat the RAM, drop to one RAM stick, swap out the PSU, strip down unnecessary components, ..... dammit, swap out the CPU? Find another GPU?
It starts to get very painful and prohibitive depending on what you have kicking around, or what your friends maybe have to loan ya for swaps, but eventually you get it working and isolate/replace a component, or you give up and try replacing the motherboard.
Which is exactly what the shop I went to did. They moved the RAM and CPU to a different device, ran stress tests and everything ran beautifully.
They have my full trust. They know I'm going through some family emergencies, they're the ones who (re)built the computer after I built it and it was unstable.
So when I last built my own system Samsung Evos were pretty much what you wanted for SSDs. Have NVME M.2s changed that any? Is Samsung still the best choice, or are there other competitive brands now?
EDIT: People put heatsinks on their M.2s?!
EVOs are still great, but the other TLC drives pretty much caught up so that you can get 90% of the performance for 60 or 70% of the price.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I still just buy Samsungs.
I dunno, found something that works and it's a boat I don't want to rock!
Samsung still makes great drives but they cost too much compared to the competition. They aren't any faster or offer anything more to justify the extra cost. In fact, most of the cheaper drives are as fast if not faster.
Samsung were once the gold standard, but I don't think that really applies anymore.
My first rule of buying hard drives since... 1996? 1995? is that you go with the longer warranty. If the drive manufacturer only believes it will last 2 years, why shouldn't you?
I bought a 1TB Samsung PCIe 3.0 instead of the 4.0, on sale for a fine price.
Generally I would recommend shopping for a high quality 3.0 instead of the 4.0, you'll do better $/performance by far and the 4.0 run hot and aren't justified/proven as yet imo.
I am running this one in my "slow" slot while I wait it out and one day move up to a 4.0, it's not like you are trapped by making this decision.
There's little functional difference for gaming between a 5600x, 5800x, or 5900x. Sure, there are some minor framerate differences here and there, but all of them are just fucking phenomenal gaming processors. As such, I feel like the only reason to go bigger than a 5600x is if you need the extra processing power for tasks like content creation. If you don't, you might as well get the lower TDP part and shave a bit off your power bill.
I feel like I made a mistake going from a 3600 to a 5600x....but I cant cancel an order from AMD and fuck it, havent been able to get anything else.
There's little functional difference for gaming between a 5600x, 5800x, or 5900x. Sure, there are some minor framerate differences here and there, but all of them are just fucking phenomenal gaming processors. As such, I feel like the only reason to go bigger than a 5600x is if you need the extra processing power for tasks like content creation. If you don't, you might as well get the lower TDP part and shave a bit off your power bill.
I figure at least matching the core/thread count of the new generation of consoles will be good.
Yeah, I was worried about 6 cores being outdated.
I'd just wait until mid year and see if they launch XT versions and grab a 5800x/5900x. If you're going to go up might as well get some cores out of it.
Can't cancel an order from AMD apparently. Lesson learned, make sure you know what you are buying before you order from them.
Just gotta decide if I want to keep the CPU, or deal with CS trying to get a return.
Could also flip it at cost + ship, plenty of people I'm sure would buy it off r/HWS and you wouldn't be at a loss, just time and energy.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
My first rule of buying hard drives since... 1996? 1995? is that you go with the longer warranty. If the drive manufacturer only believes it will last 2 years, why shouldn't you?
Yeah. It's kind of like the PSU rule: If the manufacturer has less than a 10 year warranty, look elsewhere.
I think WD is the other one that does 5 year warranties?
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I bought a 1TB Samsung PCIe 3.0 instead of the 4.0, on sale for a fine price.
Generally I would recommend shopping for a high quality 3.0 instead of the 4.0, you'll do better $/performance by far and the 4.0 run hot and aren't justified/proven as yet imo.
I am running this one in my "slow" slot while I wait it out and one day move up to a 4.0, it's not like you are trapped by making this decision.
I'm probably going to be buying PCIe 3.0 stuff well into the PCIe 4.0 generation until some actual improvements hit that don't require CrystalDiskMark to actually see.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
I've got all Samsung and Sabrant drives in my machines and neither has failed me yet. There are plenty of good drives out there now though. Short of budget drives almost everything from reputable brands is going to have a good controller and good write endurance now.
Wanted to pull together some good ol SATAs since real world performance doesn't seem to differ that much, but NVMEs have come down so much in price it seems foolish to not consider them. 970 Evos selling for comparable to 860 Evos. What a wonderful modern computing world we live in.
There's a couple of SSD's come with waterblocks now.
So uh...hopefully that's just a niche thing but down the road who knows.
That's... certainly a thing. Back in the day liquid cooling was something only enthusiasts did. These days it looks like everybody and their mom has an AIO hooked up.
Samsung isn't the only game in town anymore. They no longer have a stranglehold on good controller chips, which is what made their SSDs so much better than other brands.
It's worth saying that at least for the bleeding edge PCIE 4th Gen, there's only one controller that's made it to consumer products and its by Phision. Almost all the websites that I rely on for trusted reviews say that there are more mature controllers om the horizon, that will be better performers but that they were delayed a bit coming to market because of the pandemic.
You know, maybe tariffs on GPUs are a good thing. Higher prices equal lower demand equal maybe I can find one easier. I'd long wished they would just put a price on them that closer reflects their demand so the people with the money for them can get them with less hassle. It's a role that fell to scalpers instead. Which is basically wasted money not spent on increasing supply. Also more prone to scams.
I know the tariffs dont go towards increasing supply either. But I would prefer the government get the money than scalpers. Only marginally, but still.
Yeah it doesn't make sense to me how much virtiol there is for scalpers and not the manufacturers that set fraudulent MSRPs and force retailers to follow them. Normally you try and price a product where the demand actually is, and in a capitalist system I can't see why luxury goods of all things should be exempted from the normal dynamics of supply and demand. Lower prices don't actually make these things more accessible or even affordable, just more randomly distributed. A higher retail price would actually still end up lower than the scalper's average prices because there isn't that randomness of some selling to customers for MSRP and some not, or having to pay for the scalper's time and effort.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Yeah it doesn't make sense to me how much virtiol there is for scalpers and not the manufacturers that set fraudulent MSRPs and force retailers to follow them. Normally you try and price a product where the demand actually is, and in a capitalist system I can't see why luxury goods of all things should be exempted from the normal dynamics of supply and demand. Lower prices don't actually make these things more accessible or even affordable, just more randomly distributed. A higher retail price would actually still end up lower than the scalper's average prices because there isn't that randomness of some selling to customers for MSRP and some not, or having to pay for the scalper's time and effort.
the products should be much more expensive is an interesting take, that i happen to not agree with. if the msrp of the RTX3080 was $1200, it'd be scalping for $1800. the issue is not the base price, it's the lack of supply
Dehumanized on
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Yeah it doesn't make sense to me how much virtiol there is for scalpers and not the manufacturers that set fraudulent MSRPs and force retailers to follow them. Normally you try and price a product where the demand actually is, and in a capitalist system I can't see why luxury goods of all things should be exempted from the normal dynamics of supply and demand. Lower prices don't actually make these things more accessible or even affordable, just more randomly distributed. A higher retail price would actually still end up lower than the scalper's average prices because there isn't that randomness of some selling to customers for MSRP and some not, or having to pay for the scalper's time and effort.
the products should be much more expensive is an interesting take, that i happen to not agree with. if the msrp of the RTX3080 was $1200, it'd be scalping for $1800. the issue is not the base price, it's the lack of supply
Not true. The scalpers will raise the price until people aren't buying anymore because they want to unload the cards. As supply increases they'll need to lower their prices because the people willing to buy at the high price will have already bought.
They can't just fix an arbitrary price above retail or they'd be selling for $10000.
the specific values are meaningless, the reality of the products being scalped for a higher value is the thing that would simply not change. there isn't enough stock, and a higher MSRP only hurts the buyers more
Dehumanized on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really bad one from a marketing perspective because you know what's going to happen? Some people are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years. Consoles are rare right now, but the difference between consoles and PC's is nobody is buying thousands of consoles to mine bitcoin.
jungleroomx on
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
the specific values are meaningless, the reality of the products being scalped for a higher value is the thing that would simply not change. there isn't enough stock, and a higher MSRP only hurts the buyers more
Again, that doesn't hold. The scalpers are simply eating up the consumer surplus and in realtime (compared to manufacturing pricing) determining the price people are willing to pay for the boards.
If there was enough supply to meet demand, the scalpers wouldn't be able to sell at the higher price. Supply is nowhere near demand, so they can sell at the price that people are willing to pay to avoid trying for months to get their hands on a card.
The price they're charging isn't arbitrary. It's within a band around what the market will accept. The true value of the cards, if you will, at the current supply.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
Nah. Just means we won't be able to crank shit to the max on the latest and greatest. It'll be a more console-like experience if you can't ante up.
And I figure this sort of thing will only last a few years.
...
of course that's what I said about the goddamn cryptocoin-caused shortages so yeah, maybe we're all fucked, I dunno
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
This could've all been avoided if a couple thousand FOMO ass idiots didn't pay for video cards at double MSRP from scalpers, and if there were any laws against 2nd hand stuff. Or if Amazon or Newegg gave even 1% of a rats ass that the people using their storefront are engaging in price gouging.
I think we're seeing the end of PC gaming for the masses, getting gentrified out of the market
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
You must be new here. I remember back in the 90's when things were moving so fast, not just to play the latest and greatest at the highest settings, but to play the latest AT ALL required $1000 CPUs. When memory was prohibitively expensive period, and you more than likely barely met the minimum requirements for anything. It was extreme controversial that Quake 3 had no software mode. When there were 3 different main 3D APIs, 1 of which was proprietary, and computers were being sold with 3 different video cards to provide the best performance in all of them.
And nobody complained about being "priced out of the hobby". Not every game, not every piece of hardware, was for everyone. But plenty were. For every Unreal or Quake 3, there was an evergreen, runs on anything title like Myst or Civilization 2.
If RTX 3000 cards are priced out of your range, you won't be able to play Cyperpunk 2077 with all the ray tracing maxed out. Boo hoo. I actually see GTX 1650 cards with regularity, and that'll 1080P with medium settings just about anything you throw at it.
I made due for decades with mid range, budget or second hand parts, and loved PC gaming. Expecting to get the creme de la creme for under $2500 total is such a recent and frankly bizarre state of affairs. In 1997 getting "The Ultimate Gaming Machine" cost $5000 in 1997 money! If anything the current state of things is a reversion to the mean.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Yeah, I remember when a low-to-middle of the road computer was $2500, and you couldn't even get anything for under $1000 (I think around $1500 was the floor? Maybe? It's been awhile).
We've had it pretty fucking good for about a decade, but it looks like we're going back to the bad old days.
Orca on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
You must be new here. I remember back in the 90's when things were moving so fast, not just to play the latest and greatest at the highest settings, but to play the latest AT ALL required $1000 CPUs. When memory was prohibitively expensive period, and you more than likely barely met the minimum requirements for anything. It was extreme controversial that Quake 3 had no software mode. When there were 3 different main 3D APIs, 1 of which was proprietary, and computers were being sold with 3 different video cards to provide the best performance in all of them.
And nobody complained about being "priced out of the hobby". Not every game, not every piece of hardware, was for everyone. But plenty were. For every Unreal or Quake 3, there was an evergreen, runs on anything title like Myst or Civilization 2.
If RTX 3000 cards are priced out of your range, you won't be able to play Cyperpunk 2077 with all the ray tracing maxed out. Boo hoo. I actually see GTX 1650 cards with regularity, and that'll 1080P with medium settings just about anything you throw at it.
I made due for decades with mid range, budget or second hand parts, and loved PC gaming. Expecting to get the creme de la creme for under $2500 total is such a recent and frankly bizarre state of affairs. In 1997 getting "The Ultimate Gaming Machine" cost $5000 in 1997 money! If anything the current state of things is a reversion to the mean.
I expect that with technology, price increases are due to the technology, and not unregulated secondary markets, shitty retailers, and negligent manufacturers. The problems with 90's gaming were the costs of doing business, the problems with 20's gaming is the cost of unregulated markets. They aren't really comparable other than "shit be expensive."
The reason a top tier PC is over $3k now is because some fuckknuckle techbro in Cali needs another jetski and bought several hundred GPU's from his friend at MSI and is selling them on ebay, not because 3D acceleration is a brand new technology and the market is tiny. I'm really not willing to accept scalping as the norm.
This could've all been avoided if a couple thousand FOMO ass idiots didn't pay for video cards at double MSRP from scalpers, and if there were any laws against 2nd hand stuff. Or if Amazon or Newegg gave even 1% of a rats ass that the people using their storefront are engaging in price gouging.
I think we're seeing the end of PC gaming for the masses, getting gentrified out of the market
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
You must be new here. I remember back in the 90's when things were moving so fast, not just to play the latest and greatest at the highest settings, but to play the latest AT ALL required $1000 CPUs. When memory was prohibitively expensive period, and you more than likely barely met the minimum requirements for anything. It was extreme controversial that Quake 3 had no software mode. When there were 3 different main 3D APIs, 1 of which was proprietary, and computers were being sold with 3 different video cards to provide the best performance in all of them.
And nobody complained about being "priced out of the hobby". Not every game, not every piece of hardware, was for everyone. But plenty were. For every Unreal or Quake 3, there was an evergreen, runs on anything title like Myst or Civilization 2.
If RTX 3000 cards are priced out of your range, you won't be able to play Cyperpunk 2077 with all the ray tracing maxed out. Boo hoo. I actually see GTX 1650 cards with regularity, and that'll 1080P with medium settings just about anything you throw at it.
I made due for decades with mid range, budget or second hand parts, and loved PC gaming. Expecting to get the creme de la creme for under $2500 total is such a recent and frankly bizarre state of affairs. In 1997 getting "The Ultimate Gaming Machine" cost $5000 in 1997 money! If anything the current state of things is a reversion to the mean.
I expect that with technology, price increases are due to the technology, and not unregulated secondary markets, shitty retailers, and negligent manufacturers. The problems with 90's gaming were the costs of doing business, the problems with 20's gaming is the cost of unregulated markets. They aren't really comparable other than "shit be expensive."
The reason a top tier PC is over $3k now is because some fuckknuckle techbro in Cali needs another jetski and bought several hundred GPU's from his friend at MSI and is selling them on ebay, not because 3D acceleration is a brand new technology and the market is tiny. I'm really not willing to accept scalping as the norm.
IMHO what we are seeing are the consequences of prices being held too low despite the technology being new and revolutionary and the market price, were it allowed to be discovered, being much higher. Ray tracing is every bit as new and expensive as raster acceleration was in the 90s. It's expensive in terms of die size, wattage, cooling, process size, etc. The pentium 2 debuted at $1000 and left the pentium and k6-2 in the dust. That RTX was consistently under $1000 is practically charity.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Fucking over consumers to stabilize the supply chain sure is a hell of a fix.
It's also a really stupid one because you know what's going to happen? People are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
You must be new here. I remember back in the 90's when things were moving so fast, not just to play the latest and greatest at the highest settings, but to play the latest AT ALL required $1000 CPUs. When memory was prohibitively expensive period, and you more than likely barely met the minimum requirements for anything. It was extreme controversial that Quake 3 had no software mode. When there were 3 different main 3D APIs, 1 of which was proprietary, and computers were being sold with 3 different video cards to provide the best performance in all of them.
And nobody complained about being "priced out of the hobby". Not every game, not every piece of hardware, was for everyone. But plenty were. For every Unreal or Quake 3, there was an evergreen, runs on anything title like Myst or Civilization 2.
If RTX 3000 cards are priced out of your range, you won't be able to play Cyperpunk 2077 with all the ray tracing maxed out. Boo hoo. I actually see GTX 1650 cards with regularity, and that'll 1080P with medium settings just about anything you throw at it.
I made due for decades with mid range, budget or second hand parts, and loved PC gam9ing. Expecting to get the creme de la creme for under $2500 total is such a recent and frankly bizarre state of affairs. In 1997 getting "The Ultimate Gaming Machine" cost $5000 in 1997 money! If anything the current state of things is a reversion to the mean.
I expect that with technology, price increases are due to the technology, and not unregulated secondary markets, shitty retailers, and negligent manufacturers. The problems with 90's gaming were the costs of doing business, the problems with 20's gaming is the cost of unregulated markets. They aren't really comparable other than "shit be expensive."
The reason a top tier PC is over $3k now is because some fuckknuckle techbro in Cali needs another jetski and bought several hundred GPU's from his friend at MSI and is selling them on ebay, not because 3D acceleration is a brand new technology and the market is tiny. I'm really not willing to accept scalping as the norm.
IMHO what we are seeing are the consequences of prices being held too low despite the technology being new and revolutionary and the market price, were it allowed to be discovered, being much higher. Ray tracing is every bit as new and expensive as raster acceleration was in the 90s. It's expensive in terms of die size, wattage, cooling, process size, etc. The pentium 2 debuted at $1000 and left the pentium and k6-2 in the dust. That RTX was consistently under $1000 is practically charity.
If it was practically charity Nvidias net worth wouldn't have doubled from 2018 to 2020.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
They made a gamble that they could make raytracing a thing
that gamble paid off, and now we have an entirely new featureset driving adoption of cards. It's pretty similar in kind to the 3d revolution of yesteryear.
Ryzen 5800s are now easily available in the the UK, to the extent that they're actually being discounted. The "per core" price is now in a par with the 5600X (£300 for the 5600X, £400 for the 5800X, give or take £10.) and availability is actually better. There are indications that the supply situation is easing, and while I wouldn't at all mind getting a 5900X, those are still scarce as hen's teeth.
AMD GPUs are simply not available at reasonable prices (£750 for a 6800 non-XT? lolnop!), and Nvidia GPUs barely more so. I have said previously that there's not much point upgrading my CPU while I can't upgrade my video card, but now I'm wondering if I should get what I can get while I can get it.
Opinions?
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Ryzen 5800s are now easily available in the the UK, to the extent that they're actually being discounted. The "per core" price is now in a par with the 5600X (£300 for the 5600X, £400 for the 5800X, give or take £10.) and availability is actually better. There are indications that the supply situation is easing, and while I wouldn't at all mind getting a 5900X, those are still scarce as hen's teeth.
AMD GPUs are simply not available at reasonable prices (£750 for a 6800 non-XT? lolnop!), and Nvidia GPUs barely more so. I have said previously that there's not much point upgrading my CPU while I can't upgrade my video card, but now I'm wondering if I should get what I can get while I can get it.
Opinions?
What are you swinging right now?
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
They made a gamble that they could make raytracing a thing
that gamble paid off, and now we have an entirely new featureset driving adoption of cards. It's pretty similar in kind to the 3d revolution of yesteryear.
Yes. But that doesn't mean the cost is justified. I can buy a freesync 120hz HDR monitor for the same price as a 60hz non freesync non hdr monitor was 2 years ago, it doesn't make it charity.
Gaming GPU revenue for the quarter of Nov 2020 was up 37%, and was almost double that of data center
If anything, the signs are pointing to the fact that GPUs should be cheaper than they are right now.
Raising the price does nothing. Scalpers are raising the price, it's not magically making it easier to find a part. This is 100% a supply problem.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
It's a supply issue due to other supply issues. Silicon IC space is very hard to come by right now because the raw materials are hard to come by and the production space is extremely limited. Lunar new year starting isn't going to help.
I wouldn't expect IC production and shipment to be anything approaching normal before summer.
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Which is exactly what the shop I went to did. They moved the RAM and CPU to a different device, ran stress tests and everything ran beautifully.
They have my full trust. They know I'm going through some family emergencies, they're the ones who (re)built the computer after I built it and it was unstable.
So uh...hopefully that's just a niche thing but down the road who knows.
EVOs are still great, but the other TLC drives pretty much caught up so that you can get 90% of the performance for 60 or 70% of the price.
I dunno, found something that works and it's a boat I don't want to rock!
Samsung were once the gold standard, but I don't think that really applies anymore.
Generally I would recommend shopping for a high quality 3.0 instead of the 4.0, you'll do better $/performance by far and the 4.0 run hot and aren't justified/proven as yet imo.
I am running this one in my "slow" slot while I wait it out and one day move up to a 4.0, it's not like you are trapped by making this decision.
Could also flip it at cost + ship, plenty of people I'm sure would buy it off r/HWS and you wouldn't be at a loss, just time and energy.
Yeah. It's kind of like the PSU rule: If the manufacturer has less than a 10 year warranty, look elsewhere.
I think WD is the other one that does 5 year warranties?
I'm probably going to be buying PCIe 3.0 stuff well into the PCIe 4.0 generation until some actual improvements hit that don't require CrystalDiskMark to actually see.
That's... certainly a thing. Back in the day liquid cooling was something only enthusiasts did. These days it looks like everybody and their mom has an AIO hooked up.
It's worth saying that at least for the bleeding edge PCIE 4th Gen, there's only one controller that's made it to consumer products and its by Phision. Almost all the websites that I rely on for trusted reviews say that there are more mature controllers om the horizon, that will be better performers but that they were delayed a bit coming to market because of the pandemic.
I know the tariffs dont go towards increasing supply either. But I would prefer the government get the money than scalpers. Only marginally, but still.
Next: water cooled RAM!
the products should be much more expensive is an interesting take, that i happen to not agree with. if the msrp of the RTX3080 was $1200, it'd be scalping for $1800. the issue is not the base price, it's the lack of supply
Not true. The scalpers will raise the price until people aren't buying anymore because they want to unload the cards. As supply increases they'll need to lower their prices because the people willing to buy at the high price will have already bought.
They can't just fix an arbitrary price above retail or they'd be selling for $10000.
It's also a really bad one from a marketing perspective because you know what's going to happen? Some people are just gonna go buy a console instead of dropping $1000 on a 3070 and congrats you just lost a customer for several years. Consoles are rare right now, but the difference between consoles and PC's is nobody is buying thousands of consoles to mine bitcoin.
Again, that doesn't hold. The scalpers are simply eating up the consumer surplus and in realtime (compared to manufacturing pricing) determining the price people are willing to pay for the boards.
If there was enough supply to meet demand, the scalpers wouldn't be able to sell at the higher price. Supply is nowhere near demand, so they can sell at the price that people are willing to pay to avoid trying for months to get their hands on a card.
The price they're charging isn't arbitrary. It's within a band around what the market will accept. The true value of the cards, if you will, at the current supply.
Well we're getting that anyway, most likely. And if the manufacturers are still selling out, then they've won.
Gonna be fun to lose gaming as a hobby because we all get priced out of participating.
Nah. Just means we won't be able to crank shit to the max on the latest and greatest. It'll be a more console-like experience if you can't ante up.
And I figure this sort of thing will only last a few years.
...
of course that's what I said about the goddamn cryptocoin-caused shortages so yeah, maybe we're all fucked, I dunno
I think we're seeing the end of PC gaming for the masses, getting gentrified out of the market
No plans on overclocking, so does the following look reasonable?
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor
Motherboard: ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB Founders Edition Video Card
Case: NZXT H210i Mini ITX Tower Case
Power Supply: NZXT C 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit
Looks more than reasonable to me, in fact it should absolutely crush 1080p. Looks decent enough for 1440p.
You must be new here. I remember back in the 90's when things were moving so fast, not just to play the latest and greatest at the highest settings, but to play the latest AT ALL required $1000 CPUs. When memory was prohibitively expensive period, and you more than likely barely met the minimum requirements for anything. It was extreme controversial that Quake 3 had no software mode. When there were 3 different main 3D APIs, 1 of which was proprietary, and computers were being sold with 3 different video cards to provide the best performance in all of them.
And nobody complained about being "priced out of the hobby". Not every game, not every piece of hardware, was for everyone. But plenty were. For every Unreal or Quake 3, there was an evergreen, runs on anything title like Myst or Civilization 2.
If RTX 3000 cards are priced out of your range, you won't be able to play Cyperpunk 2077 with all the ray tracing maxed out. Boo hoo. I actually see GTX 1650 cards with regularity, and that'll 1080P with medium settings just about anything you throw at it.
I made due for decades with mid range, budget or second hand parts, and loved PC gaming. Expecting to get the creme de la creme for under $2500 total is such a recent and frankly bizarre state of affairs. In 1997 getting "The Ultimate Gaming Machine" cost $5000 in 1997 money! If anything the current state of things is a reversion to the mean.
We've had it pretty fucking good for about a decade, but it looks like we're going back to the bad old days.
I expect that with technology, price increases are due to the technology, and not unregulated secondary markets, shitty retailers, and negligent manufacturers. The problems with 90's gaming were the costs of doing business, the problems with 20's gaming is the cost of unregulated markets. They aren't really comparable other than "shit be expensive."
The reason a top tier PC is over $3k now is because some fuckknuckle techbro in Cali needs another jetski and bought several hundred GPU's from his friend at MSI and is selling them on ebay, not because 3D acceleration is a brand new technology and the market is tiny. I'm really not willing to accept scalping as the norm.
It really wouldn't. This is a supply problem
IMHO what we are seeing are the consequences of prices being held too low despite the technology being new and revolutionary and the market price, were it allowed to be discovered, being much higher. Ray tracing is every bit as new and expensive as raster acceleration was in the 90s. It's expensive in terms of die size, wattage, cooling, process size, etc. The pentium 2 debuted at $1000 and left the pentium and k6-2 in the dust. That RTX was consistently under $1000 is practically charity.
If it was practically charity Nvidias net worth wouldn't have doubled from 2018 to 2020.
that gamble paid off, and now we have an entirely new featureset driving adoption of cards. It's pretty similar in kind to the 3d revolution of yesteryear.
AMD GPUs are simply not available at reasonable prices (£750 for a 6800 non-XT? lolnop!), and Nvidia GPUs barely more so. I have said previously that there's not much point upgrading my CPU while I can't upgrade my video card, but now I'm wondering if I should get what I can get while I can get it.
Opinions?
What are you swinging right now?
Yes. But that doesn't mean the cost is justified. I can buy a freesync 120hz HDR monitor for the same price as a 60hz non freesync non hdr monitor was 2 years ago, it doesn't make it charity.
Gaming GPU revenue for the quarter of Nov 2020 was up 37%, and was almost double that of data center
If anything, the signs are pointing to the fact that GPUs should be cheaper than they are right now.
I wouldn't expect IC production and shipment to be anything approaching normal before summer.