Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.
The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.
it doesn't at all show that they were right
vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading
Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.
Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?
Swaminathan warned that vaccinated people can still get Covid and pass it on to others, which is why WHO officials have been urging people to continue wearing masks and practice social distancing. “But certainly it reduces your chances of severe hospitalization and death significantly,” she added.
Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
Current evidence suggests vaccinated people spread it less. But they can still spread it.
Also, vaccinated people are still getting it:
People who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are still getting infected with the delta variant, but global health officials said the shots have protected most people from getting severely sick or dying.
Yeah, this is an important point. Plenty of people who are vaccinated are also getting pretty damn sick.
Are they in the hospital? No, the vast majority aren't. They aren't at risk of dying - Which is great! And a testament to the vaccines! But they can still spread this thing to others - including other vaccinated people.
And I will note that the vaccinated people I know of who have gotten infected indicate that the experience is basically 'I'm not in the hospital, but I feel miserable enough I wish I were dead'. The clinical definition of 'mild' feels very different firsthand.
And this is all before the possibility of Long Covid is taken into consideration.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
yeah it would be nice if we could differentiate those refusing from those who have no option because those refusing are killing a lot more than themselves
Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.
The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.
it doesn't at all show that they were right
vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading
Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.
Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?
Swaminathan warned that vaccinated people can still get Covid and pass it on to others, which is why WHO officials have been urging people to continue wearing masks and practice social distancing. “But certainly it reduces your chances of severe hospitalization and death significantly,” she added.
Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
Current evidence suggests vaccinated people spread it less. But they can still spread it.
Also, vaccinated people are still getting it:
People who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are still getting infected with the delta variant, but global health officials said the shots have protected most people from getting severely sick or dying.
I am aware, I’m a microbiologist. Your own information you quoted here is saying the same thing that I am.
Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
So the current data does not suggest that they spread it less, we don’t really know how transmissible the virus or delta variant is from someone who is vaccinated.
I also support anyone who wants to wear a mask to continue to do so. I have one with me wherever I go and still wear one from time to time as well.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
your assertion was that the decision to lift mask mandates was proven correct
that has not been proven correct and recent evidence is suggesting it may have been incorrect
your assertion was that the decision to lift mask mandates was proven correct
that has not been proven correct and recent evidence is suggesting it may have been incorrect
Where did I ever say anything about the decision to lift mask mandates? Please quote it for me.
I specifically made the distinction that the CDC didn’t say “lift mask mandates”, I said their guidance was that fully vaccinated people could feel safe without a mask.
Those are not the same things.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
yeah it would be nice if we could differentiate those refusing from those who have no option because those refusing are killing a lot more than themselves
The "willfully" unvaccinated, or whatever
It seemed pretty obvious to me whenever someone refers to the "unvaccinated" in uncharitable terms that they're meaning to refer to Trump voters who are just refusing to get the vaccine - I don't infer they're meaning to rope my vaccine-ineligible toddler into that group
Then again you should see the shit she pulls at bedtime
SummaryJudgment on
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues
you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago
the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false
Covid infection rates in certain minority groups have consistently outpaced those in White communities; death rates for some Black counties were triple those of comparable White ones. As data start to emerge that richer, Whiter areas are getting more than their fair share of inoculations, officials have announced a series of initiatives, like mass vaccination sites and partnerships with pharmacies in underserved areas, to better target vulnerable minority communities.
With access to anything in America, race is always a factor. Sure, you can get an appointment at any pharmacy, but pharmacy locations are unequal, and information is unequal. It is not enough to have this "available", outreach needs to be done, and don't assume the vaccination availability you have in your area is universal.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
yeah it would be nice if we could differentiate those refusing from those who have no option because those refusing are killing a lot more than themselves
The "willfully" unvaccinated, or whatever
It seemed pretty obvious to me whenever someone refers to the "unvaccinated" in uncharitable terms that they're meaning to refer to Trump voters who are just refusing to get the vaccine - I don't infer they're meaning to rope my vaccine-ineligible toddler into that group
Then again you should see the shit she pulls at bedtime
And the nature of communicable disease means there is no meaningful distinction. Being unvaccinated doesn't mean that you are risking your life alone. If it did then this wouldn't be nearly as much of a concern.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
yeah it would be nice if we could differentiate those refusing from those who have no option because those refusing are killing a lot more than themselves
The "willfully" unvaccinated, or whatever
It seemed pretty obvious to me whenever someone refers to the "unvaccinated" in uncharitable terms that they're meaning to refer to Trump voters who are just refusing to get the vaccine - I don't infer they're meaning to rope my vaccine-ineligible toddler into that group
Then again you should see the shit she pulls at bedtime
And the nature of communicable disease means there is no meaningful distinction. Being unvaccinated doesn't mean that you are risking your life alone. If it did then this wouldn't be nearly as much of a concern.
You don't think I realize this?
When we're discussing vaccination rates and we're referring to the unwillingness of vaccine eligible people to get vaccinated, people may use the shorthand "the unvaccinated"
Context is important! We parse this all the time.
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
Speaking of which apparently my wife is hesitant to vaccinate our children (assuming the time comes) and I'm not sure why. We're both vaccinated. Her family's vaccinated. My family's vaccinated. There's simply no reason to assume that it would be dangerous for children as well. And the fact that there's this much time between adult vaccination and kids vaccination proves they are putting more research into this to 100% ensure safety.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
your assertion was that the decision to lift mask mandates was proven correct
that has not been proven correct and recent evidence is suggesting it may have been incorrect
Where did I ever say anything about the decision to lift mask mandates? Please quote it for me.
I specifically made the distinction that the CDC didn’t say “lift mask mandates”, I said their guidance was that fully vaccinated people could feel safe without a mask.
Those are not the same things.
your semantics argument doesn't change the fact there is no evidence supporting your claim the CDC's decision has been proven correct
those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues
you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago
the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false
Covid infection rates in certain minority groups have consistently outpaced those in White communities; death rates for some Black counties were triple those of comparable White ones. As data start to emerge that richer, Whiter areas are getting more than their fair share of inoculations, officials have announced a series of initiatives, like mass vaccination sites and partnerships with pharmacies in underserved areas, to better target vulnerable minority communities.
With access to anything in America, race is always a factor. Sure, you can get an appointment at any pharmacy, but pharmacy locations are unequal, and information is unequal. It is not enough to have this "available", outreach needs to be done, and don't assume the vaccination availability you have in your area is universal.
i'm in Virginia, nothing here is universal
those graphs do show a slight disparity that is also improving recently. i don't think anyone is claiming there is no issue with underserved communities
the narrative i am pushing back against is the one that is claiming the underserved communities are a significant subset of those left unvaccinated. i haven't seen anything to suggest they are
it is absolutely important to be doing outreach and try to get shots in arms of every single person we can, but the overwhelming majority of the problem at this point is willful ignorance in the name of political resistance and continuing to play that down is dangerous
Yeah, masks are basically over. I have young kids too and it sucks, but the reality is we just have to stay out of any potentially risky situation until kid vax is available as good fucking luck getting people to mask up simply for the chance they'd encounter a kid.
People actively were jerks to kids for no reason before, this is just par for course.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.
this isn't you quoted but:
"fuck it let the unvaccinated die" doesn't apply just to those people you and SummaryJudgement assumed we'd think about when saying "the unvaccinated".
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
This arose because someone was like "the only possible reason for not being vaccinated by now is being a Trump supporter, so there's no reason not to reopen", and that's just not true. Between people that have poor access to the vaccine, people that need outreach, children, and people that are waiting for their second shot, there's a lot of people that really need protection.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.
this isn't you quoted but:
"fuck it let the unvaccinated die" doesn't apply just to those people you and SummaryJudgement assumed we'd think about when saying "the unvaccinated".
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
This arose because someone was like "the only possible reason for not being vaccinated by now is being a Trump supporter, so there's no reason not to reopen", and that's just not true. Between people that have poor access to the vaccine, people that need outreach, children, and people that are waiting for their second shot, there's a lot of people that really need protection.
And my point is that Trumpers, anti-vaxxers, whatever you want to call them, will not obey any restrictions you put on them. Absolutely every protection you want to implement, they will ignore, to the point of killing people over it.
I get that you're trying to protect groups of people who haven't gotten the vaccine but still want it. But outside of forcing these anti-vaxx fuckers at gunpoint to take the vaccine, I think you're out of options. Mask, no mask, it doesn't matter. In my part of the country, it's been effectively no-mask for the past 12 months, every CDC policy change and news article you guys bring up here is a fart in the wind, it brings about absolutely no change in anyone's behavior here.
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
This arose because someone was like "the only possible reason for not being vaccinated by now is being a Trump supporter, so there's no reason not to reopen", and that's just not true. Between people that have poor access to the vaccine, people that need outreach, children, and people that are waiting for their second shot, there's a lot of people that really need protection.
There's also the immunosuppressed for whom the vaccines are less effective, and those who are medically unable to be vaccinated.
Anyhow, I think the way to get numbers up for vaccination in areas where rates are low is to make it incredibly easy to get, and take the vaccines to the people. I already posted the example of my local Health Authority doing beach side vaccination clinics with no appointment and (since we're in Canada), no requirement to provide your personal health ID number. Now, they're doing an additional approach of:
Speaking of which apparently my wife is hesitant to vaccinate our children (assuming the time comes) and I'm not sure why. We're both vaccinated. Her family's vaccinated. My family's vaccinated. There's simply no reason to assume that it would be dangerous for children as well. And the fact that there's this much time between adult vaccination and kids vaccination proves they are putting more research into this to 100% ensure safety.
Meanwhile I asked my wife to put in a message to our 11 year old's doctor if there is some criteria we can use to get her vaccinated early even though its technically not approved for her.
I don't really want her going to in-person middle school without a vaccine.
But kids and people with medical conditions that prevent them from getting vaccinated are the only reason I care about unvaccinated people. Also them being a pool for mutations and such.
Otherwise I would say strongly fuck 'em. If someone is willfully unvaccinated and get sick and die oh well.
Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.
The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.
it doesn't at all show that they were right
vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading
Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.
Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?
Swaminathan warned that vaccinated people can still get Covid and pass it on to others, which is why WHO officials have been urging people to continue wearing masks and practice social distancing. “But certainly it reduces your chances of severe hospitalization and death significantly,” she added.
Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
Current evidence suggests vaccinated people spread it less. But they can still spread it.
Also, vaccinated people are still getting it:
People who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are still getting infected with the delta variant, but global health officials said the shots have protected most people from getting severely sick or dying.
I am aware, I’m a microbiologist. Your own information you quoted here is saying the same thing that I am.
Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
So the current data does not suggest that they spread it less, we don’t really know how transmissible the virus or delta variant is from someone who is vaccinated.
I also support anyone who wants to wear a mask to continue to do so. I have one with me wherever I go and still wear one from time to time as well.
No, my own quote is saying the opposite. That's why I quoted the first paragraph as well. There's other articles on this too. There are concerns about the ability of vaccinated people to both contract and spread the disease. Especially the delta variant, which is rapidly just becoming "Covid".
Around my town the pandemic is over now that the mandates have ended. Mask compliance was very good for over a year, and now my family are often the only masked people around. We get stares too - though nobody’s hassled us yet. The attitude seems to be that since vaccines are widely available that the only people with masks are politically motivated.
Of course, my kids are too young, and about that “everyone has been vaccinated”
Not so much. Those numbers have barely moved for weeks, including the second dose not catching up to the single dose.
Now we only have 3 active cases in town currently (2 of them new in the last week), so I get the idea that it’s not running rampant here. But still, until we get school age kids covered I’m having a hard time letting the masks go.
Around my town the pandemic is over now that the mandates have ended. Mask compliance was very good for over a year, and now my family are often the only masked people around. We get stares too - though nobody’s hassled us yet. The attitude seems to be that since vaccines are widely available that the only people with masks are politically motivated.
Of course, my kids are too young, and about that “everyone has been vaccinated”
Not so much. Those numbers have barely moved for weeks.
Now we only have 3 active cases in town currently (2 of them new in the last week), so I get the idea that it’s not running rampant here. But still, until we get school age kids covered I’m having a hard time letting the masks go.
This just boggles my brain. That people object to other people protecting themselves in a manner that does not impact them, IN THE FUCKING SLIGHTEST!
This isn't open carry, or smoking, or gross public intoxication, where your acts might directly affect me. This is people wearing a cloth over their face so they don't catch a potentially fatal disease.
Just fucking tired of people being assholes, all the fucking time.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
I also feel obligated to point out that the CDC didn't even issue guidance saying "masks are over!", the guidance said "it's OK for groups of people who are all fully vaccinated to be indoors with each other, but if you don't know everyone's status then everyone should still be masked."
The problem was that they did so inartfully that all anyone heard was "masks are over!"
I also feel obligated to point out that the CDC didn't even issue guidance saying "masks are over!", the guidance said "it's OK for groups of people who are all fully vaccinated to be indoors with each other, but if you don't know everyone's status then everyone should still be masked."
The problem was that they did so inartfully that all anyone heard was "masks are over!"
Are you sure? I remember them saying "you don't need to wear masks if you are fully vaccinated."
It was a whole thing.
The "vaccinated people can be indoors with each other" was significantly earlier.
We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.
Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.
It's like the parable of the man stuck in the flood and god, but shorter.
A man is dying of Covid and he asks god "why didn't you save me" and God replies "I gave you a safe effective vaccine available for free with no appointment at the place you stop at twice a week to buy racks of Busch Light"
I also feel obligated to point out that the CDC didn't even issue guidance saying "masks are over!", the guidance said "it's OK for groups of people who are all fully vaccinated to be indoors with each other, but if you don't know everyone's status then everyone should still be masked."
The problem was that they did so inartfully that all anyone heard was "masks are over!"
Straight from their webpage
In general, you do not need to wear a mask in outdoor settings.
Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing
Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.
Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
This arose because someone was like "the only possible reason for not being vaccinated by now is being a Trump supporter, so there's no reason not to reopen", and that's just not true. Between people that have poor access to the vaccine, people that need outreach, children, and people that are waiting for their second shot, there's a lot of people that really need protection.
I know the vaguely defined "access" is a very popular go to. But frankly its credibility wearing a bit thin at this point.
Literally every chain grocery store in my city has a pharmacy giving vaccines out-and has for damn near 2 months now. As do all the pharmacy chains. As do all the Targets and Walmarts. At this point avoiding going anywhere with the shot is more of a challenge.
This is a snap shot of covid vaccine locations in the Northside of Milwaukee, which is the primarily black area in one of the most segregated cities in the US. This should be the exact type of 'food desert' type access problem, a kind of worse case scenario example.
I had to add the stars, since there's more than 1 page of google results, and I'm sure its still missing some since I drive through the area most mornings. This doesn't include the various pop ups at churches, community events, etc that are held in that area by the city health department.
for reference, freeway to freeway is about 6.5 miles E-W.
Look, we can all construct corner cases of the disabled, single parent, 3rd shift worker with 2 jobs. But if you're going to tell me the reason 6 in 10 adults who live in that picture don't have a vaccine because of access...I have to wonder why CVS and Walgreens bother building those stores, since apparently no one goes into them.
Austin has apparently reached, "well, this was the 7 day moving average which was previously the threshold for stage 3 lockdown." but we're not going back to stage 3 because... reasons.
Which is a little frustrating because we were at a handful of cases a week for a while there.
I'm glad I went out and did the social stuff while it was sane, but... we'll see how this shakes out.
Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.
I've been watching people walk by "Masks are required to enter" signs without a mask on for the past 12 months, the requirements were never real to begin with.
The sign says "required to enter" but if those in charge of the stores aren't willing to take a stance at actually enforcing the rules, then what motivation is there for anyone to actually follow the sign?
"Well they'll ring me up anyway" is not much of a deterrance.
To be frank, nobody in the service/retail industry, from the manager on down, is paid enough to put their life on the line like that (well they're not paid enough, period, but that's another topic).
And make no mistake, that's exactly what they're thinking about when they're calculating if they should enforce the requirement or not. x2 for a red state, x3 if your governor is a shithead and never implemented a mask mandate, and even urged businesses to stay open and maintain normal operations at the start of the pandemic.
Hell, my employer had a mask mandate and I was one of two people in the whole company following it. The guy in charge of enforcing it, sending us emails regularly to remind us that masks are required, refused to wear one and never enforced it because, "masks are political."
I just think some of you are way out of touch with how badly parts of this country threw themselves at the virus, and would and will continue to do so, no matter what policy you put in place. After 12+ months of this shit I'm absolutely done giving a shit if they fuck around and find out anymore.
If only those who are fucking around would be the only ones who would be finding out.
But diseases don't care about politics, and these bad actors legitimately don't care about any collateral harm they cause.
DarkPrimus on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2021
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
I just replied with "conspiracy theories are just a way for people to shift blame from their own actions on to unknowable forces of evil nobody can ever hope to stop" and actually felt proud of myself because I think the dude stopped to think about it for a split second. Or maybe not. In either case, not going back there ever again.
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
This seems like a blend of the American and Chinese conspiracy theories. The Chinese conspiracy theorists think it was made by the US military. The US conspiracy theorists think it was made by China. This guy believes ... both?
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
This seems like a blend of the American and Chinese conspiracy theories. The Chinese conspiracy theorists think it was made by the US military. The US conspiracy theorists think it was made by China. This guy believes ... both?
The secret Chinese Pentagon run by space lizards.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
This seems like a blend of the American and Chinese conspiracy theories. The Chinese conspiracy theorists think it was made by the US military. The US conspiracy theorists think it was made by China. This guy believes ... both?
Yes.
Both. It was made in Wuhan by the US military.
Also, used the phrase, "I've done my research". but couldn't answer how the evolution was "impossible." I did ask if the C was pairing with the T, since that's the only evolutionary impossibility (except for A and G, but yeah) WRT DNA I can think of, and it was handwaved and said it was something.
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
I just replied with "conspiracy theories are just a way for people to shift blame from their own actions on to unknowable forces of evil nobody can ever hope to stop" and actually felt proud of myself because I think the dude stopped to think about it for a split second. Or maybe not. In either case, not going back there ever again.
I have a nuclear physicist navy friend who lives in your city (I'm 100% serious about this) and while a liberal, has a tendency to buy deep into conspiracy theories (he's acknowledged this and is aware but his brain latches on real hard all the time), so I'm suddenly asking myself, "Okay so do I need to talk to him today?"
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2021
And just now!
My fucking landlord decided now was the time for me to hear about HER enlightened opinion on how horrible the vaccine is!
And, I don't know why, but I said I've lost people to COVID and she did this little smile and said "Are you sure it was COVID?"
Lady, fuck you. If I didn't have to stay here for another year while I finished clearing out my student loans I would paid the money to break my lease right now because of that shit.
jungleroomx on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
God some dude at a gas station last night was spouting about how the way COVID 19 came about was "impossible" through evolution and it was made by the US Military in China, according to his nuclear physicist navy friend.
I just replied with "conspiracy theories are just a way for people to shift blame from their own actions on to unknowable forces of evil nobody can ever hope to stop" and actually felt proud of myself because I think the dude stopped to think about it for a split second. Or maybe not. In either case, not going back there ever again.
I have a nuclear physicist navy friend who lives in your city (I'm 100% serious about this) and while a liberal, has a tendency to buy deep into conspiracy theories (he's acknowledged this and is aware but his brain latches on real hard all the time), so I'm suddenly asking myself, "Okay so do I need to talk to him today?"
Shit bruh.
If it's the same guy then slap him once for me.
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
My fucking landlord decided now was the time for me to hear about HER enlightened opinion on how horrible the vaccine is!
And, I don't know why, but I said I've lost people to COVID and she did this little smile and said "Are you sure it was COVID?"
Lady, fuck you. If I didn't have to stay here for another year while I finished clearing out my student loans I would paid the money to break my lease right now because of that shit.
Holy shit, pardon me, but your landlord is a piece of human garbage.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that at all.
TetraNitroCubane on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
My fucking landlord decided now was the time for me to hear about HER enlightened opinion on how horrible the vaccine is!
And, I don't know why, but I said I've lost people to COVID and she did this little smile and said "Are you sure it was COVID?"
Lady, fuck you. If I didn't have to stay here for another year while I finished clearing out my student loans I would paid the money to break my lease right now because of that shit.
Holy shit, pardon me, but your landlord is a piece of human garbage.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that at all.
This I already knew
Her halloween costume was her husband dressed up in a gorilla suit with a leash on it while she wore a Civil War uniform.
My fucking landlord decided now was the time for me to hear about HER enlightened opinion on how horrible the vaccine is!
And, I don't know why, but I said I've lost people to COVID and she did this little smile and said "Are you sure it was COVID?"
Lady, fuck you. If I didn't have to stay here for another year while I finished clearing out my student loans I would paid the money to break my lease right now because of that shit.
Holy shit, pardon me, but your landlord is a piece of human garbage.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that at all.
This I already knew
Her halloween costume was her husband dressed up in a gorilla suit with a leash on it while she wore a Civil War uniform.
Posts
Yeah, this is an important point. Plenty of people who are vaccinated are also getting pretty damn sick.
Are they in the hospital? No, the vast majority aren't. They aren't at risk of dying - Which is great! And a testament to the vaccines! But they can still spread this thing to others - including other vaccinated people.
And I will note that the vaccinated people I know of who have gotten infected indicate that the experience is basically 'I'm not in the hospital, but I feel miserable enough I wish I were dead'. The clinical definition of 'mild' feels very different firsthand.
And this is all before the possibility of Long Covid is taken into consideration.
yeah it would be nice if we could differentiate those refusing from those who have no option because those refusing are killing a lot more than themselves
I am aware, I’m a microbiologist. Your own information you quoted here is saying the same thing that I am.
So the current data does not suggest that they spread it less, we don’t really know how transmissible the virus or delta variant is from someone who is vaccinated.
I also support anyone who wants to wear a mask to continue to do so. I have one with me wherever I go and still wear one from time to time as well.
that has not been proven correct and recent evidence is suggesting it may have been incorrect
Where did I ever say anything about the decision to lift mask mandates? Please quote it for me.
I specifically made the distinction that the CDC didn’t say “lift mask mandates”, I said their guidance was that fully vaccinated people could feel safe without a mask.
Those are not the same things.
The "willfully" unvaccinated, or whatever
It seemed pretty obvious to me whenever someone refers to the "unvaccinated" in uncharitable terms that they're meaning to refer to Trump voters who are just refusing to get the vaccine - I don't infer they're meaning to rope my vaccine-ineligible toddler into that group
Then again you should see the shit she pulls at bedtime
Here's data from last week.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html With access to anything in America, race is always a factor. Sure, you can get an appointment at any pharmacy, but pharmacy locations are unequal, and information is unequal. It is not enough to have this "available", outreach needs to be done, and don't assume the vaccination availability you have in your area is universal.
And the nature of communicable disease means there is no meaningful distinction. Being unvaccinated doesn't mean that you are risking your life alone. If it did then this wouldn't be nearly as much of a concern.
Unless your nieces are willing to 2nd Amendment over a grocery store clerk telling them to wear a mask I feel extremely confident that nobody is actually talking about them and you're just inserting them on your own.
I shouldn't have to build a fence out of caveats and nuance for you to understand nobody's talking about kids, man.
You don't think I realize this?
When we're discussing vaccination rates and we're referring to the unwillingness of vaccine eligible people to get vaccinated, people may use the shorthand "the unvaccinated"
Context is important! We parse this all the time.
your semantics argument doesn't change the fact there is no evidence supporting your claim the CDC's decision has been proven correct
i'm in Virginia, nothing here is universal
those graphs do show a slight disparity that is also improving recently. i don't think anyone is claiming there is no issue with underserved communities
the narrative i am pushing back against is the one that is claiming the underserved communities are a significant subset of those left unvaccinated. i haven't seen anything to suggest they are
it is absolutely important to be doing outreach and try to get shots in arms of every single person we can, but the overwhelming majority of the problem at this point is willful ignorance in the name of political resistance and continuing to play that down is dangerous
People actively were jerks to kids for no reason before, this is just par for course.
this isn't you quoted but:
"fuck it let the unvaccinated die" doesn't apply just to those people you and SummaryJudgement assumed we'd think about when saying "the unvaccinated".
Try anti-vaxxers instead.
This arose because someone was like "the only possible reason for not being vaccinated by now is being a Trump supporter, so there's no reason not to reopen", and that's just not true. Between people that have poor access to the vaccine, people that need outreach, children, and people that are waiting for their second shot, there's a lot of people that really need protection.
And my point is that Trumpers, anti-vaxxers, whatever you want to call them, will not obey any restrictions you put on them. Absolutely every protection you want to implement, they will ignore, to the point of killing people over it.
I get that you're trying to protect groups of people who haven't gotten the vaccine but still want it. But outside of forcing these anti-vaxx fuckers at gunpoint to take the vaccine, I think you're out of options. Mask, no mask, it doesn't matter. In my part of the country, it's been effectively no-mask for the past 12 months, every CDC policy change and news article you guys bring up here is a fart in the wind, it brings about absolutely no change in anyone's behavior here.
And yes, the kids suffer for it.
There's also the immunosuppressed for whom the vaccines are less effective, and those who are medically unable to be vaccinated.
Anyhow, I think the way to get numbers up for vaccination in areas where rates are low is to make it incredibly easy to get, and take the vaccines to the people. I already posted the example of my local Health Authority doing beach side vaccination clinics with no appointment and (since we're in Canada), no requirement to provide your personal health ID number. Now, they're doing an additional approach of:
The Vaccine Bus!
and everybody's jumping
new york to san francisco
an immunity disco
Meanwhile I asked my wife to put in a message to our 11 year old's doctor if there is some criteria we can use to get her vaccinated early even though its technically not approved for her.
I don't really want her going to in-person middle school without a vaccine.
But kids and people with medical conditions that prevent them from getting vaccinated are the only reason I care about unvaccinated people. Also them being a pool for mutations and such.
Otherwise I would say strongly fuck 'em. If someone is willfully unvaccinated and get sick and die oh well.
No, my own quote is saying the opposite. That's why I quoted the first paragraph as well. There's other articles on this too. There are concerns about the ability of vaccinated people to both contract and spread the disease. Especially the delta variant, which is rapidly just becoming "Covid".
Of course, my kids are too young, and about that “everyone has been vaccinated”
Not so much. Those numbers have barely moved for weeks, including the second dose not catching up to the single dose.
Now we only have 3 active cases in town currently (2 of them new in the last week), so I get the idea that it’s not running rampant here. But still, until we get school age kids covered I’m having a hard time letting the masks go.
This just boggles my brain. That people object to other people protecting themselves in a manner that does not impact them, IN THE FUCKING SLIGHTEST!
This isn't open carry, or smoking, or gross public intoxication, where your acts might directly affect me. This is people wearing a cloth over their face so they don't catch a potentially fatal disease.
Just fucking tired of people being assholes, all the fucking time.
The problem was that they did so inartfully that all anyone heard was "masks are over!"
Are you sure? I remember them saying "you don't need to wear masks if you are fully vaccinated."
It was a whole thing.
The "vaccinated people can be indoors with each other" was significantly earlier.
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Straight from their webpage
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
I know the vaguely defined "access" is a very popular go to. But frankly its credibility wearing a bit thin at this point.
Literally every chain grocery store in my city has a pharmacy giving vaccines out-and has for damn near 2 months now. As do all the pharmacy chains. As do all the Targets and Walmarts. At this point avoiding going anywhere with the shot is more of a challenge.
This is a snap shot of covid vaccine locations in the Northside of Milwaukee, which is the primarily black area in one of the most segregated cities in the US. This should be the exact type of 'food desert' type access problem, a kind of worse case scenario example.
I had to add the stars, since there's more than 1 page of google results, and I'm sure its still missing some since I drive through the area most mornings. This doesn't include the various pop ups at churches, community events, etc that are held in that area by the city health department.
for reference, freeway to freeway is about 6.5 miles E-W.
Look, we can all construct corner cases of the disabled, single parent, 3rd shift worker with 2 jobs. But if you're going to tell me the reason 6 in 10 adults who live in that picture don't have a vaccine because of access...I have to wonder why CVS and Walgreens bother building those stores, since apparently no one goes into them.
Which is a little frustrating because we were at a handful of cases a week for a while there.
I'm glad I went out and did the social stuff while it was sane, but... we'll see how this shakes out.
If only those who are fucking around would be the only ones who would be finding out.
But diseases don't care about politics, and these bad actors legitimately don't care about any collateral harm they cause.
I just replied with "conspiracy theories are just a way for people to shift blame from their own actions on to unknowable forces of evil nobody can ever hope to stop" and actually felt proud of myself because I think the dude stopped to think about it for a split second. Or maybe not. In either case, not going back there ever again.
This seems like a blend of the American and Chinese conspiracy theories. The Chinese conspiracy theorists think it was made by the US military. The US conspiracy theorists think it was made by China. This guy believes ... both?
The secret Chinese Pentagon run by space lizards.
Yes.
Both. It was made in Wuhan by the US military.
Also, used the phrase, "I've done my research". but couldn't answer how the evolution was "impossible." I did ask if the C was pairing with the T, since that's the only evolutionary impossibility (except for A and G, but yeah) WRT DNA I can think of, and it was handwaved and said it was something.
I have a nuclear physicist navy friend who lives in your city (I'm 100% serious about this) and while a liberal, has a tendency to buy deep into conspiracy theories (he's acknowledged this and is aware but his brain latches on real hard all the time), so I'm suddenly asking myself, "Okay so do I need to talk to him today?"
My fucking landlord decided now was the time for me to hear about HER enlightened opinion on how horrible the vaccine is!
And, I don't know why, but I said I've lost people to COVID and she did this little smile and said "Are you sure it was COVID?"
Lady, fuck you. If I didn't have to stay here for another year while I finished clearing out my student loans I would paid the money to break my lease right now because of that shit.
Shit bruh.
If it's the same guy then slap him once for me.
Holy shit, pardon me, but your landlord is a piece of human garbage.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that at all.
This I already knew
Her halloween costume was her husband dressed up in a gorilla suit with a leash on it while she wore a Civil War uniform.
This I also found out recently.
Ho-leeeee shit