It's two pages ago. We just got bogged down in "but what, truly, is a timeline" again
That people even try seems like smashing your head against a rock.
It's an inherently illogical thing, either go with it or don't, but don't expect perfect consistency from movie to movie or show to show (or even within a particular movie/show/whatever)
because, again, it's inherently illogical
even more so than the usual superhero nonsense
Orca on
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
It's two pages ago. We just got bogged down in "but what, truly, is a timeline" again
That people even try seems like smashing your head against a rock.
It's an inherently illogical thing, either go with it or don't, but don't expect perfect consistency from movie to movie or show to show (or even within a particular movie/show/whatever)
because, again, it's inherently illogical
even more so than the usual superhero nonsense
On top of that, we've got people doing it in different kinds of ways. With timelines, in Endgame, they time travel through the Quantum Realm. In Loki, the TVA just opens portals. With multiverses, again, no talk of those films here, but there was not one consistent method.
It really does seem like they're throwing all this out there so there isn't one definitive explanation and they can just go with what the story needs.
-Loki- on
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
It's two pages ago. We just got bogged down in "but what, truly, is a timeline" again
Time is a flat circle.
Unlike the display of Chris Hemsworth's Mjolnir and magnificently sculpted ass after Russel Crowe's *flick*
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I'm fine with the multiverse being a nebulous thing, just as I'm fine with the time travel being something they've (hopefully) put a hard stop to. The former basically needs to have decent writing to be worthwhile in any way, the latter is almost as easy to write badly as it is to abuse.
And the way they did the time travel required the output of basically two unique geniuses, one to open the door and one to put the doors where they needed to be. Now that Stark is gone, hopefully that's the end of time travel stuff. Giving it the one shot and walking away was certainly the way to go, as it avoids the pitfalls of the comics where it seems like damn near every semi-major event is surrounded by a miasma of additional characters time traveling around it.
It's two pages ago. We just got bogged down in "but what, truly, is a timeline" again
That people even try seems like smashing your head against a rock.
It's an inherently illogical thing, either go with it or don't, but don't expect perfect consistency from movie to movie or show to show (or even within a particular movie/show/whatever)
I'm fine with the multiverse being a nebulous thing, just as I'm fine with the time travel being something they've (hopefully) put a hard stop to. The former basically needs to have decent writing to be worthwhile in any way, the latter is almost as easy to write badly as it is to abuse.
And the way they did the time travel required the output of basically two unique geniuses, one to open the door and one to put the doors where they needed to be. Now that Stark is gone, hopefully that's the end of time travel stuff. Giving it the one shot and walking away was certainly the way to go, as it avoids the pitfalls of the comics where it seems like damn near every semi-major event is surrounded by a miasma of additional characters time traveling around it.
I don't think you can rely on the lack of Stark to shut down time travel. Like Parker said in NWH, "We have super science!" Just have a scene, or even one of those YouTube shorts, where they spin up the time-o-matic machine for some reason and all that happens is a little post-it note pops into existence with "No" written on it, followed by everyone deciding to dismantle the machine and never speak of it again. Or just say that that happened if someone asks why they aren't doing timey-wimey things to solve some problem. The MCU is big and weird enough at this point that it would work. Certainly more interesting than saying they lost the blueprints and can't figure it out without Stark.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
When I said time travel was shutdown, I meant more that it was removed as a consequence free tool in the heroes arsenal. End Game ends with a definite feel of never wanting to mess with time travel again, whereas Strange MoM ends with
America safe in the care of the good guys and seemingly able to pop open stable multiversal portals at will. I suppose there's the Incursion thing to worry about but she seemed perfectly happy to hop about wherever at the end of the film.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
I always felt like time travel was a cop out in Endgame, because they wrote themselves into a wall by having Thanos destroy the stones. They could've just said he cast them into the far reaches of the galaxy and wasn't able to destroy them, so you still get to have everyone split up, and maybe at that point, Nebula gets the gauntlet, undoes everything, but Thanos circa-IW also goes back to how he was, and they have to face him again, so you still get the same showdown, only with Nebula payoff. (And without the mess of the five years still applying to everyone, which is just a clusterf on every level.)
I always felt like time travel was a cop out in Endgame, because they wrote themselves into a wall by having Thanos destroy the stones. They could've just said he cast them into the far reaches of the galaxy and wasn't able to destroy them, so you still get to have everyone split up, and maybe at that point, Nebula gets the gauntlet, undoes everything, but Thanos circa-IW also goes back to how he was, and they have to face him again, so you still get the same showdown, only with Nebula payoff. (And without the mess of the five years still applying to everyone, which is just a clusterf on every level.)
Or they could have pulled a bit from the avengers run with the incursions and have them all get destroyed, except for the time stone, which poofed (presumably because of something strange set up ahead of time for this hypothetical), and then you can have the time travel shenanigans when it resurfaces, without leaving the door open to further shenigans. Though I forgot what happened to the stones in that run.
I like Thanos destroying the stones a lot more than him sending them away. He literally just gathered them all from the far reaches of the galaxy, he knows that's doable. It wouldn't make sense.
Also a large part of endgame is being a celebration of the MCU, which the time travel aspect allowed them to indulge in, by going back to various other events and interacting with characters who are long dead.
I always felt like time travel was a cop out in Endgame, because they wrote themselves into a wall by having Thanos destroy the stones. They could've just said he cast them into the far reaches of the galaxy and wasn't able to destroy them, so you still get to have everyone split up, and maybe at that point, Nebula gets the gauntlet, undoes everything, but Thanos circa-IW also goes back to how he was, and they have to face him again, so you still get the same showdown, only with Nebula payoff. (And without the mess of the five years still applying to everyone, which is just a clusterf on every level.)
Or they could have pulled a bit from the avengers run with the incursions and have them all get destroyed, except for the time stone, which poofed (presumably because of something strange set up ahead of time for this hypothetical), and then you can have the time travel shenanigans when it resurfaces, without leaving the door open to further shenigans. Though I forgot what happened to the stones in that run.
In Infinity, Thanos figured out that one was not destroyed and attacked Earth for it while most of the top tier heroes were offworld fighting the Builders. It fell to Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, and Generic Spider Hero (Blade in an off brand Spidey costume) to fight him off. They didn't really win, but Thanos eventually confirmed there was no stone hidden on Earth and gave up.
They started randomly resurfacing later in possession of people believed to be dead. Gamora and Wolverine were two of them. Beyond that I cannot remember, and since that ran next to the Avengers of 10,000 BC and the whole Old King Thor end of the universe thing with Doom's final form I read that instead.
I like Thanos destroying the stones a lot more than him sending them away. He literally just gathered them all from the far reaches of the galaxy, he knows that's doable. It wouldn't make sense.
That even could've figured in to future cosmic related stuff, with things going wonky in the universe because the stones had been destroyed. Maybe have the Abstracts finally show up and be all "You did what with our shit?"
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
That said I thought strange and the time stone would figure more prominently; when thanos uses the stone on Wanda iirc it still has the spell rune imagery and I thought for sure strange would have set some kinda trap spell or something that let him reset things
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
Right, and in those stories Thanos loses. They wanted Thanos to Win, is the point.
Like shit, it's a plot point in the OG Infinity Gauntlet saga that Thanos subconsciously wants to lose because he feels unworthy, which is how he keeps getting godlike powers and immediately getting clowned on.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
Right, and in those stories Thanos loses. They wanted Thanos to Win, is the point.
I was saying do that for endgame. Leave the "win" from IW in tact.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
Right, and in those stories Thanos loses. They wanted Thanos to Win, is the point.
..he loses in endgame anyway. Technically twice if you count you count the loss for each Thanos.
He died having won. The universe suffered for 4 years and is irrecoverably scarred by his actions. He won Infinity War.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
They wanted Thanos to capital-W Win in infinity, and once that’s done the only way to really get around it is time bullshit.
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
Right, and in those stories Thanos loses. They wanted Thanos to Win, is the point.
..he loses in endgame anyway. Technically twice if you count you count the loss for each Thanos.
He died having won. The universe suffered for 4 years and is irrecoverably scarred by his actions. He won Infinity War.
That all happened in Endgame though. You can still leave the win from Infinity War in tact without having to time time shenanigans, is what I was trying to say.
Frankly, time travel stories that end with everything returning to the status quo with no-one the wiser are the worst, most pointless stories. It was very gutsy to have the blip be something that went on for five years and people remember.
It's also very comic-booky to have such a world changing event not mentioned after a couple of years unless it's a central part of a story or something the writer really likes so they slip in a mention
It's interesting to see how the different properties are handling the Blip.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It's also very comic-booky to have such a world changing event not mentioned after a couple of years unless it's a central part of a story or something the writer really likes so they slip in a mention
It's interesting to see how the different properties are handling the Blip.
Spider Man FFH was a weird one because near as I could tell everyone Parker knew got dusted.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Whilst we made a big thing of the blip, there’s yet to be any recognition of the fairly seismic global impact of The Eternals finale.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Frankly, time travel stories that end with everything returning to the status quo with no-one the wiser are the worst, most pointless stories. It was very gutsy to have the blip be something that went on for five years and people remember.
Sometimes time travel that ends at status quo is fine. Star Trek has a few. Like the one with Kirk not able to save the woman he falls in love with or it will lead to Germany winning WW2, or the DS9 Bell Riots episodes. I would generally agree with you though.
they always get great people to do this stuff. when we went to disneyland/california adventure several years ago they had just added the marvel characters. The actress for Gamora was fantastic. We saw her walking somewhere and shouted "Gamora you're the best" and without missing a beat she shouted back "I know." I enjoyed those interactions more than anything else while we were there.
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Time is a flat circle.
That people even try seems like smashing your head against a rock.
It's an inherently illogical thing, either go with it or don't, but don't expect perfect consistency from movie to movie or show to show (or even within a particular movie/show/whatever)
because, again, it's inherently illogical
even more so than the usual superhero nonsense
As proven by the intro to the Loki finale.
On top of that, we've got people doing it in different kinds of ways. With timelines, in Endgame, they time travel through the Quantum Realm. In Loki, the TVA just opens portals. With multiverses, again, no talk of those films here, but there was not one consistent method.
It really does seem like they're throwing all this out there so there isn't one definitive explanation and they can just go with what the story needs.
Unlike the display of Chris Hemsworth's Mjolnir and magnificently sculpted ass after Russel Crowe's *flick*
~ Buckaroo Banzai
And the way they did the time travel required the output of basically two unique geniuses, one to open the door and one to put the doors where they needed to be. Now that Stark is gone, hopefully that's the end of time travel stuff. Giving it the one shot and walking away was certainly the way to go, as it avoids the pitfalls of the comics where it seems like damn near every semi-major event is surrounded by a miasma of additional characters time traveling around it.
It doesn't have to be, it's just hard.
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I don't think you can rely on the lack of Stark to shut down time travel. Like Parker said in NWH, "We have super science!" Just have a scene, or even one of those YouTube shorts, where they spin up the time-o-matic machine for some reason and all that happens is a little post-it note pops into existence with "No" written on it, followed by everyone deciding to dismantle the machine and never speak of it again. Or just say that that happened if someone asks why they aren't doing timey-wimey things to solve some problem. The MCU is big and weird enough at this point that it would work. Certainly more interesting than saying they lost the blueprints and can't figure it out without Stark.
Or they could have pulled a bit from the avengers run with the incursions and have them all get destroyed, except for the time stone, which poofed (presumably because of something strange set up ahead of time for this hypothetical), and then you can have the time travel shenanigans when it resurfaces, without leaving the door open to further shenigans. Though I forgot what happened to the stones in that run.
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In Infinity, Thanos figured out that one was not destroyed and attacked Earth for it while most of the top tier heroes were offworld fighting the Builders. It fell to Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, and Generic Spider Hero (Blade in an off brand Spidey costume) to fight him off. They didn't really win, but Thanos eventually confirmed there was no stone hidden on Earth and gave up.
They started randomly resurfacing later in possession of people believed to be dead. Gamora and Wolverine were two of them. Beyond that I cannot remember, and since that ran next to the Avengers of 10,000 BC and the whole Old King Thor end of the universe thing with Doom's final form I read that instead.
That even could've figured in to future cosmic related stuff, with things going wonky in the universe because the stones had been destroyed. Maybe have the Abstracts finally show up and be all "You did what with our shit?"
https://youtu.be/v-rHrkgVIsw
It’s nice not having to wait forever if you don’t or can’t see it in Theaters
That said I thought strange and the time stone would figure more prominently; when thanos uses the stone on Wanda iirc it still has the spell rune imagery and I thought for sure strange would have set some kinda trap spell or something that let him reset things
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Depends on the story you want to tell. They could have done it more like the comics where Thanos keeps the stones, there's no timeskip and basically the whole universe has shows up to fight him.
Right, and in those stories Thanos loses. They wanted Thanos to Win, is the point.
Like shit, it's a plot point in the OG Infinity Gauntlet saga that Thanos subconsciously wants to lose because he feels unworthy, which is how he keeps getting godlike powers and immediately getting clowned on.
I was saying do that for endgame. Leave the "win" from IW in tact.
He died having won. The universe suffered for 4 years and is irrecoverably scarred by his actions. He won Infinity War.
That all happened in Endgame though. You can still leave the win from Infinity War in tact without having to time time shenanigans, is what I was trying to say.
It's interesting to see how the different properties are handling the Blip.
Spider Man FFH was a weird one because near as I could tell everyone Parker knew got dusted.
There haven't been a ton of things set post Eternals AFAIK
Sometimes time travel that ends at status quo is fine. Star Trek has a few. Like the one with Kirk not able to save the woman he falls in love with or it will lead to Germany winning WW2, or the DS9 Bell Riots episodes. I would generally agree with you though.
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Can't wait to see how people (especially kids, because people aren't going to be expecting MoM to be what it is) react to that now.
When I saw MoM there was a couple and their kid wasn’t even 10.
Kinda felt bad for them. There were some very not kid friendly parts.