There is a lot of punishment out there if you want to run minion based decks. Inquisitive Creation and the neutral Prisonbreaker are probably the big culprits. Pile on classes with endless removal right now (priest, death knight) and you get something that can get very frustrating very fast.
I haven’t encountered it as much myself but I watched him play for a bit yesterday and I completely understand where he’s coming from.
It's fucking everywhere at my MMR. The majority of my games are against decks that run a majority of spells (yet many can still tempo out a win due to how many spells can put on board pressure) due to how much really strong spell synergy there is right now. Yogg, Prison Breaker, Krakenbane, etc. I don't think the game has ever been remotely this spell heavy.
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
Patch Changes coming on Thursday:
Dev Comment: There were two clear meta offenders that we wanted to address in this patch: Yogg-Saron and the Druid class. Recent additions from the mini-set made for overly-powerful neutral board control tools that were warping the meta. These, combined with stand-out Druid cards, made for a Druid shell that was able to cover its class weaknesses and utilize any number of “finishers” to end the game. These changes focus on weakening the Druid shell that facilitated these powerful finishers, while also removing negative play experiences that we believe are causing more pain than fun. After those adjustments, the Jailer and Tony are out on probation, but we’ll be keeping an eye on them, and the rest of the meta, as we head into the Showdown in the Badlands.
Embrace of Nature
Old: [1 Mana]
New: [2 Mana]
Rake
Old: [1 Mana]
New: [2 Mana]
Dev Comment: Druid has a lot of redundancy right now, but Embrace of Nature and Rake are two cards that stand out as particularly integral to the class. They are also both too efficient for their cost. We considered other adjustments to Druid, but these were the two most stand-out choices.
Prison Breaker
Old: Battlecry: If you’ve cast 5 or more spells this game, deal 3 damage to all enemies.
New: Battlecry: If you’ve cast 5 or more spells this game, deal 2 damage to all enemies.
Dev Comment: The current suite of neutral board clears are a bit too punishing to minion-based decks. This change is to open up a bit of space in the meta for early minion strategies.
Yogg-Saron, Unleashed
Old: [15 Mana] Costs (1) less for each spell you’ve cast this game.
New: [9 Mana] After you use an ability, cast 2 random spells.
Dev Comment: When we made Yogg-Saron, we wanted it to be a powerful, exciting marquee card for the mini-set. Unfortunately, it ended up being too overpowered for too long. We’re removing the cost adjustment effect instead of bumping up its cost for two reasons: 1) we want the card to be played in more than just spell-spamming decks; and 2) this is the change we’re most confident will land at the power level we want. We replaced the cost reduction effect with the new random-spells effect because we wanted something that represented the character’s relationship with magic—and madness!
Tony, King of Piracy
Old: [5 Mana] Both players’ decks are swapped. Finale: Draw a card.
New: [7 Mana] Battlecry: Replace your deck with a copy of your opponent’s. Finale: Draw a card.
Tony is also now Unbanned in Wild.
Dev Comment: When cards are causing problems when they’re played the way they’re designed to be played, that means they’re ripe for a redesign. Piracy is not a victimless crime, and Tony only really appeared when he was causing problems. This change keeps the essence of his effect, but avoids the sharp play experiences he caused.
The Jailer
Old: Battlecry: Destroy your deck. For the rest of the game, your minions are Immune.
New: Battlecry: Destroy your deck. This minion gains Immune.
The Jailer is also now Unbanned in Standard and Wild.
Dev Comment: There was some concern that The Jailer would still work too well even with the updated Tony, so we’re making an adjustment here to tone down The Jailer as well and remove a lot of the polarizing situations he could enable.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
Every single time I saw Rake played, my thought was always "how is this only 1 mana?"
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited October 2023
Embrace and Rake will still see plenty of play I'd expect. One more mana doesn't mean much to a class that has basically infinite. I really wish they would nerf Nourish to give empty mana crystals.
-1 damage on prison breaker hurts. A lot of stuff survives 2 damage so I think it falls out of favor for every class besides Druid and Rogue. I think it's still ok in those decks. The other neutral nerfs I don't quite know what to make of. Yogg Titan is now a worse version of the Yogg locationedit: it does still have its Titan abilities so it's probably not quite as dramatic a change as I implied, but I think they should have nerfed it to 20 mana instead of 15. Tony is really expensive but I could see him getting some play.
Embrace and Rake will still see plenty of play I'd expect. One more mana doesn't mean much to a class that has basically infinite. I really wish they would nerf Nourish to give empty mana crystals.
Eh, it's not about making the cards unplayable. It's about making their cost commensurate with their power, and influencing the overall win rate of decks that play them. Drum Druid plays Embrace, and Moonbeam druid plays Rake, and those decks don't ramp.
I'm sure they'll see less play because Druid will see less play in general after this patch.
Embrace and Rake will still see plenty of play I'd expect. One more mana doesn't mean much to a class that has basically infinite. I really wish they would nerf Nourish to give empty mana crystals.
Eh, it's not about making the cards unplayable. It's about making their cost commensurate with their power, and influencing the overall win rate of decks that play them...
I didn't mean to suggest they should be rendered unplayable. My point was that I really don't think this moves the needle for the decks that use those cards.
Good point, but three of those have a downside IMO.
I forgot about Tournament Medic.
Sure, but the downside is for the extra stats. I'm mostly just pointing out that 4 mana for 8 health has been around for a long while and isn't really a power creep without a big ass effect.
Also rune requirements make things trickier to value. 2+ rune cards better be pretty good due to their deck restrictions. I could be missing something but Maw and Paw doesn't look good to me.
+1
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
*grumble*grumble*wellyeahbutstill*grumble*
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
The Titan casually dropping his huge ass sword on Rexxar made me lol as well.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Legend get!
From Diamond 5 to the finish line I ran the paladin deck I posted a page or two back. I wasn't very good about tracking stats this go around but I estimate something around 60% win rate. Overall, it was a very smooth ride.
Also, I'm rank 11698 lolol. That means I'm a super legend, right?
In spite of its descent in the meta, I made the final climb to dad legend yet again with good old Unholy DK. The climb wasn't easy, a lot of +2 stars, -1 or 2 stars hopping for a while.
Ran into every class on the climb except DH, Rogue, and Shaman, so really quite the variety overall, but weirdly I would hit the same class in streaks surprisingly often. Final two wins were against two mages in a row.
forty on
+3
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited October 2023
Got my first legend of the modern era just squeaking in on the last day. In wild, so I can't compete with you guys numbers, though.
I played exclusively odd paladin for a week. At the start I had an insane win streak of 15 games or so (the achievement only tracks up to 12).
At the end it was of course a bit of a slog. A lot of pirate rogues who can win on the mulligan. I only faced one other odd paladin which helped me a lot I think, because people were misplaying against me all the time.
Grobian on
+7
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
Vilespine's brother from another mother.
Man, I did not miss that card at all.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
+1
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
they sure did put some cards into this game in the last [checks wrist] four years, huh
why the hell not let's go again. D5 in one session, pretty sweet.
Edit: D3, putting the lab constructors back in favor of the 2/5 taunt guys has helped a lot.
bwanie on
+3
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
First neutral Hero. You keep your class identity in terms of discover and so on.
The board empty thing is confirmed to remove everything. If it was anything occupying board space, it's gone.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited November 2023
What are the magic bullets?
edit: found it
They are all "deal two damage to a target" then get an additional effect based on the spell schools
Arcane - refresh 2 mana
Fel - draw a card
Shadow - summon a random 3 cost minion
Frost - gain 4 armor
Fire - deal 1 to all minions
Nature - get a random spell
Holy - give a random friendly minion +2/+2
Seven random hero powers. Each is targeted deal 2 damage, and then one of
-Refresh 2 mana crystals
-Gain 4 armor
-1 damage to all enemy minions
-Random friendly +2/+2
-Discover a spell
-Summon a random 3 cost minion
-Draw a card
Posts
Dev Comment: There were two clear meta offenders that we wanted to address in this patch: Yogg-Saron and the Druid class. Recent additions from the mini-set made for overly-powerful neutral board control tools that were warping the meta. These, combined with stand-out Druid cards, made for a Druid shell that was able to cover its class weaknesses and utilize any number of “finishers” to end the game. These changes focus on weakening the Druid shell that facilitated these powerful finishers, while also removing negative play experiences that we believe are causing more pain than fun. After those adjustments, the Jailer and Tony are out on probation, but we’ll be keeping an eye on them, and the rest of the meta, as we head into the Showdown in the Badlands.
Embrace of Nature
Old: [1 Mana]
New: [2 Mana]
Rake
Old: [1 Mana]
New: [2 Mana]
Dev Comment: Druid has a lot of redundancy right now, but Embrace of Nature and Rake are two cards that stand out as particularly integral to the class. They are also both too efficient for their cost. We considered other adjustments to Druid, but these were the two most stand-out choices.
Prison Breaker
Old: Battlecry: If you’ve cast 5 or more spells this game, deal 3 damage to all enemies.
New: Battlecry: If you’ve cast 5 or more spells this game, deal 2 damage to all enemies.
Dev Comment: The current suite of neutral board clears are a bit too punishing to minion-based decks. This change is to open up a bit of space in the meta for early minion strategies.
Yogg-Saron, Unleashed
Old: [15 Mana] Costs (1) less for each spell you’ve cast this game.
New: [9 Mana] After you use an ability, cast 2 random spells.
Dev Comment: When we made Yogg-Saron, we wanted it to be a powerful, exciting marquee card for the mini-set. Unfortunately, it ended up being too overpowered for too long. We’re removing the cost adjustment effect instead of bumping up its cost for two reasons: 1) we want the card to be played in more than just spell-spamming decks; and 2) this is the change we’re most confident will land at the power level we want. We replaced the cost reduction effect with the new random-spells effect because we wanted something that represented the character’s relationship with magic—and madness!
Tony, King of Piracy
Old: [5 Mana] Both players’ decks are swapped. Finale: Draw a card.
New: [7 Mana] Battlecry: Replace your deck with a copy of your opponent’s. Finale: Draw a card.
Tony is also now Unbanned in Wild.
Dev Comment: When cards are causing problems when they’re played the way they’re designed to be played, that means they’re ripe for a redesign. Piracy is not a victimless crime, and Tony only really appeared when he was causing problems. This change keeps the essence of his effect, but avoids the sharp play experiences he caused.
The Jailer
Old: Battlecry: Destroy your deck. For the rest of the game, your minions are Immune.
New: Battlecry: Destroy your deck. This minion gains Immune.
The Jailer is also now Unbanned in Standard and Wild.
Dev Comment: There was some concern that The Jailer would still work too well even with the updated Tony, so we’re making an adjustment here to tone down The Jailer as well and remove a lot of the polarizing situations he could enable.
-1 damage on prison breaker hurts. A lot of stuff survives 2 damage so I think it falls out of favor for every class besides Druid and Rogue. I think it's still ok in those decks. The other neutral nerfs I don't quite know what to make of. Yogg Titan is now a worse version of the Yogg locationedit: it does still have its Titan abilities so it's probably not quite as dramatic a change as I implied, but I think they should have nerfed it to 20 mana instead of 15. Tony is really expensive but I could see him getting some play.
Jailer may as well not exist now.
I'm sure they'll see less play because Druid will see less play in general after this patch.
Maybe some kind of Order in the Court/Jailer/Fanottem, Lord of the Opera combo?
Nah.
I didn't mean to suggest they should be rendered unplayable. My point was that I really don't think this moves the needle for the decks that use those cards.
Nothing says Powercreep Might Be A Thing These Days like a 4-mana minion packing 8 health.
I forgot about Tournament Medic.
Also rune requirements make things trickier to value. 2+ rune cards better be pretty good due to their deck restrictions. I could be missing something but Maw and Paw doesn't look good to me.
Great stuff as usual.
I felt that.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
From Diamond 5 to the finish line I ran the paladin deck I posted a page or two back. I wasn't very good about tracking stats this go around but I estimate something around 60% win rate. Overall, it was a very smooth ride.
Also, I'm rank 11698 lolol. That means I'm a super legend, right?
went from DR5 no stars to endboss in 21 games. Need a little break. Mech rogue with the Thunderbringer package is bonkers. Wish me luck
### robots_yo
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Wolf
#
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (1) Drone Deconstructor
# 2x (1) Frequency Oscillator
# 2x (1) Gear Shift
# 2x (2) From the Scrapheap
# 2x (2) Invent-o-matic
# 2x (2) Pit Stop
# 2x (2) Security Automaton
# 2x (2) Serrated Bone Spike
# 2x (3) Coppertail Snoop
# 1x (3) Mimiron, the Mastermind
# 2x (3) SP-3Y3-D3R
# 2x (4) Scourge Illusionist
# 1x (5) Ini Stormcoil
# 1x (6) Crabatoa
# 1x (6) V-07-TR-0N Prime
# 1x (8) Thunderbringer
# 1x (10) Neptulon the Tidehunter
#
AAECAd75AwbYtgTsugS/zgS29gXq+gX2owYM958EkrUE9d0EoZMF2dAF1fYFv/cFpvgF5voFofwF5/0Fuf4FAAA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I have no idea how trolleys got rolled into warlock lore but i'm here for it.
The wave of hate I felt while reading this card text could power a moderate town for a minimum of six months.
Ran into every class on the climb except DH, Rogue, and Shaman, so really quite the variety overall, but weirdly I would hit the same class in streaks surprisingly often. Final two wins were against two mages in a row.
I played exclusively odd paladin for a week. At the start I had an insane win streak of 15 games or so (the achievement only tracks up to 12).
At the end it was of course a bit of a slog. A lot of pirate rogues who can win on the mulligan. I only faced one other odd paladin which helped me a lot I think, because people were misplaying against me all the time.
Vilespine's brother from another mother.
Man, I did not miss that card at all.
Edit: D3, putting the lab constructors back in favor of the 2/5 taunt guys has helped a lot.
First neutral Hero. You keep your class identity in terms of discover and so on.
The board empty thing is confirmed to remove everything. If it was anything occupying board space, it's gone.
edit: found it
They are all "deal two damage to a target" then get an additional effect based on the spell schools
Arcane - refresh 2 mana
Fel - draw a card
Shadow - summon a random 3 cost minion
Frost - gain 4 armor
Fire - deal 1 to all minions
Nature - get a random spell
Holy - give a random friendly minion +2/+2
-Refresh 2 mana crystals
-Gain 4 armor
-1 damage to all enemy minions
-Random friendly +2/+2
-Discover a spell
-Summon a random 3 cost minion
-Draw a card