I think at this point Cover's basically fully given up on the dream of having a significant shared audience across Hololive and Holostars and has accepted that there's two mostly separate audiences with very little overlap. I don't think we'll be seeing any more Stars debuts any time soon, but if we do it'll be on the EN side since that's got more space to grow. I don't know what Cover's long term plans are for growing the Stars brand given they don't seem to want to go after the streaming markets that men traditionally do well in.
Hopes are high that EN4 is them specifically trying to grab folks from under-served parts of the world. Early guesses based on graduated indies point at German and Brazilian Vtubers and the "innit" in the title hints at someone being British.
I believe the only other debut that'll happen this fiscal year will be DEV_IS gen 2. Cover's put out auditions for them and I think a second gen will fare better than the first without the confusion that permeated the first gen's debut affecting things. That branch seems to be them trying to find folks who can fill under-served Japanese streaming niches and then training them up to be idols, so if they can pull it off again they'll be sitting pretty.
I think ID4 might happen, but it's very unlikely. I feel like the ID market just doesn't have space to fully support 3 more HoloID girls and they'd need to compete with HoloEN for overseas eyeballs a lot more than their predecessors did. There's implications that Kobo doesn't make much more money than either of her genmates despite having over 1M more subs than theirs combined because so much of her audience is made up of young ID kids with no disposable income.
Feels like nobody in EN actively wants to, outside Bae occasionally with JP or Bettel’s Barbie watchalongs. Callie and Kronii seemed interested or were asked to do so early on but haven’t since Vesper and Magni left.
Mori and Kronii did a few when Vesper and Magni were still around. I don't think they've felt much interest in collabing with any of the other boys. Bae has done some stuff with a few of the boys. I want to say her last collab was when she, Betel and Shinri did a watch along of Barbie movies.
Honestly, if feels like we see more outside of the branch collabing from the Holostar members, when we just look at EN stuff. If we exclude Wrestlemania. We still have collabs from this year Hakka, Flay, Jurad, Axel and Ruze doing stuff with people outside of Cover's portfolio. The other 5 might have had collabs as well that I missed because it's pretty hard to keep track of everything going on in the English corporate vtbuer scene (I want to say Bettel has done something with other people) and there was also the Goose Goose Duck thing, on top of Wrestlemania, as just a huge collab between various vtubers that wasn't confined to one agency.
I know Cover is focused heavily on the concert stuff and that probably eats into the time and mental energy that the girls have for doing other things. That said, part of me is a bit worried that there is an intentional push by someone in upper management for Hololive EN to discourage collabs outside of the Hololive folder.
Dunno. A benefit of a large company roster is never having to go outside the bubble, and this is Vtubing, true extroverts are rare and usually the center of collabs.
And fans will flame the shit out of anybody approaching a Holo in public first, so you have a recipe to get bubbles formed without people spreading out much. JP has this issue less because, as Doki says, there's plenty of large VTuber events to sign, but the EN side is less developed.
Pretty sure outside collabs have to get approved. So that gives plenty of room for a jackass in the higher parts of Cover to screw away with things if they want.
So let me rephrase that, it sometimes feels like there is someone high enough in Hololive EN, that doesn't seem keen at all on the idea of collabs outside of Hololive. We know that the members of Hololive EN have friends outside of the agency, who are vtubers and streamers. So it's kind of odd that there are so few collabs because I kind of doubt that can all be explained away with "everyone is too busy" or "that person is too unhinged, that we worry collabing with them will hurt the brand."
Like if was they just weren't collabing with guys, I could see some logic with that. Currently, Holostars only has 10 people for the English side of things, so I could totally believe that many members of Hololive might feel that there isn't anyone in Holostars they want to collab with. Be that a case of just not meshing with them or a case where even if they do get along, they might feel that their kind of content doesn't mesh well. The gamergate bullshit hasn't been that long ago and there are a still a ton of sexist pigs on the internet, so I could also see a situation where a women has had enough bad experiences on the internet, that they just can't ever feel comfortable making content with guys online; especially, if some of those incidents involved assholes that seemed okay initially before showing their true colors. There is the approach of "not going to collab with the other gender because I want to target viewers that will get butthurt over me interacting with the other gender," I don't really agree with that approach and feel it's likely to lead to some really unpleasant situations. If a talent decides to go that route, well that's on them and can't really stop them. I don't think management should ever push for that though and I would argue intended or not, they are acting in manner that is endangering their people. One reason why I dislike the unicorn and gachikoi crowd, is that you get a fair number of shitty people that take their fandom into realm of stalking and enough of them get pretty unhinged when they feel their oshi is betraying them. (IMO the best way to deal with that crowd is to not indulge in their bullshit and to make it crystal clear that they do not have a special relationship with the talents and are in fact a stranger, that doesn't get any special rights. Also telling them to fuck off early on, might make it less likely they do something or at least make it easiest to spot the dangerous ones).
This just seems to ignore all the actual collabs that have happened. Seems more like Nerissa is just the one out of Advent with an interest in getting out there, being an actual extrovert, existing connections, or some combination of the above. And the rest of Advent are just... not that.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
The mastermind that's blocking the girls from collabing is known as "social anxiety." Turns out when you hire a bunch of shy girls they don't even reach out to strangers of the same gender within the company for collabs, let alone strangers outside the company entirely. The EN boys don't really have a similar social anxiety problem which is why they reach out so much. That said, they do have gender dynamics and power differential problems that make them approaching the Hololive girls first frowned upon, so it's up to the girls to make the first move which just ramps up that social anxiety even more.
The mastermind that's blocking the girls from collabing is known as "social anxiety." Turns out when you hire a bunch of shy girls they don't even reach out to strangers of the same gender within the company for collabs, let alone strangers outside the company entirely. The EN boys don't really have a similar social anxiety problem which is why they reach out so much. That said, they do have gender dynamics and power differential problems that make them approaching the Hololive girls first frowned upon, so it's up to the girls to make the first move which just ramps up that social anxiety even more.
From a content creator perspective, they also have fandom issues with collabs. Yeah, unicorn idol fans are a problem, but they also pay the girls' bills and are a significant source of angry social media posts, so depending on someone's individual community it might be tough to do anything 'off-brand'.
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I'm aware that social anxiety might be an issue as well, but given that they tend to pick up people with experience. I find it very unlikely that none of them had any women friends from the PL, that none of those friends would be safe to collab with. Hell, there are plenty people both well known and obscure that have probably reached out to them and trying tried befriending them or just networking in general.
Like I said, if it was just the not collabing with the boys, I could see some solid logic there and a decent bit that has nothing to do with unicorns and gachikois being assholes.
Ignoring ReGLOSS because they are fairly new and thus really small and I haven't really seen much of their content, the other branches seem to more in the way of outside collabing and not in that they are participating in big huge events either. They also have members that experience the whole anxiety thing.
So there is an oddity and I really do think the only way you can explain it is that there is some aspect at the corporate level causing this. Might not be some jackass shooting down outside collab perms because they are secretly a shitty unicorn or gachikois or some uber capitalist asshole doing it because "we won't get all the money." Could still be corporate decision because someone is being way too damn skittish about this stuff, be that a fear of damaging the brand or provoking the typical assholes. Could also be an issue that the girls don't feel secure to do so because they don't think management will truly have their backs here, when the typical suspects get pissy that the girls "aren't making the content they are paying them to make."
I'm aware that social anxiety might be an issue as well, but given that they tend to pick up people with experience. I find it very unlikely that none of them had any women friends from the PL, that none of those friends would be safe to collab with.
Nerissa literally collabed with Bao, AmeLee, Ironmouse, Reimu, and Zentreya, and that is just the ones I actively remember seeing clips of or found in like 10 mins of searching YouTube.
Edit: And they made for pretty hilarious clips because every time the host would be trying to be more seiso (I guess because Hololive somehow still has that reputation?) and then Nerissa would just go off to maximum horny mode as she does.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
The mastermind that's blocking the girls from collabing is known as "social anxiety." Turns out when you hire a bunch of shy girls they don't even reach out to strangers of the same gender within the company for collabs, let alone strangers outside the company entirely. The EN boys don't really have a similar social anxiety problem which is why they reach out so much. That said, they do have gender dynamics and power differential problems that make them approaching the Hololive girls first frowned upon, so it's up to the girls to make the first move which just ramps up that social anxiety even more.
Current guesses are 1 Brit, 1 Italian and 1 German with the last still unknown.
I think the speculation is French for the last one but uh no one cares enough to track French content creators so they haven't been fingered yet lmao
I've seen reasonable guesses for the Brit, Italian, and German though.
Can I ask who? I know a Brit and Italian Vtuber who graduated recently.
Yeah, I know a few months ago, people were noting that a number of indies in Europe were graduating. So Hololive EN gen 4 was probably the deal or at least part of it. I know there were a few small agencies cropping up or getting new waves IIRC.
Guess now I get to figure out if I'll be able to catch many of their streams or if they'll end up having schedules where I just don't catch many of the streams. Though that only matters if I decide I want to watch their content. I've hit the point where I can't really keep up with all the vtubers that have caught my interest.
If they're based on Europe, why are their debuts at four in the morning?
Nowadays Cover does everything important (3D showcases, debuts, official streams, etc) for EN at or around noon JST. They'll most likely reveal their first week's schedule during their debuts.
I'm aware that social anxiety might be an issue as well, but given that they tend to pick up people with experience. I find it very unlikely that none of them had any women friends from the PL, that none of those friends would be safe to collab with. Hell, there are plenty people both well known and obscure that have probably reached out to them and trying tried befriending them or just networking in general.
Like I said, if it was just the not collabing with the boys, I could see some solid logic there and a decent bit that has nothing to do with unicorns and gachikois being assholes.
Ignoring ReGLOSS because they are fairly new and thus really small and I haven't really seen much of their content, the other branches seem to more in the way of outside collabing and not in that they are participating in big huge events either. They also have members that experience the whole anxiety thing.
So there is an oddity and I really do think the only way you can explain it is that there is some aspect at the corporate level causing this. Might not be some jackass shooting down outside collab perms because they are secretly a shitty unicorn or gachikois or some uber capitalist asshole doing it because "we won't get all the money." Could still be corporate decision because someone is being way too damn skittish about this stuff, be that a fear of damaging the brand or provoking the typical assholes. Could also be an issue that the girls don't feel secure to do so because they don't think management will truly have their backs here, when the typical suspects get pissy that the girls "aren't making the content they are paying them to make."
Cover didn't hire for streaming experience or sociability, they hired for talent and having an impressive portfolio even if that didn't involve streaming or being a VTuber. There were very few expectations around having experience being a Vtuber at the time of Myth, Hope, and Council's auditions since the EN Vtuber scene was extremely sparse and most of the girls who were Vtubers at the time of their auditions hadn't been doing it for longer than a year. Calli, Ina, Bae, and Mumei have collabed with women they were friends from before their time at Holo (Ina might not count there since Sana was also a part of Holo at the time) and Calli, Ina, Kiara, and Nerissa have all collabed with Vtubers they made friends with after joining Holo. Bae and Kronii have brought their real life friends on stream, Calli, Kiara, and Nerissa have brought their families on stream and Shiori made a visual novel with one of her Vtuber friends from before Holo.
When I say social anxiety is the main thing stopping them, look at something like this clip where Gura can barely function interacting with people in her own company. I could dig up similar things for pretty much any HoloEN girl besides Calli, Kiara, and Nerissa. There's no boogeyman at Cover that's blocking the HoloEN girls from collabing with anyone.
I'm aware that social anxiety might be an issue as well, but given that they tend to pick up people with experience. I find it very unlikely that none of them had any women friends from the PL, that none of those friends would be safe to collab with. Hell, there are plenty people both well known and obscure that have probably reached out to them and trying tried befriending them or just networking in general.
Like I said, if it was just the not collabing with the boys, I could see some solid logic there and a decent bit that has nothing to do with unicorns and gachikois being assholes.
Ignoring ReGLOSS because they are fairly new and thus really small and I haven't really seen much of their content, the other branches seem to more in the way of outside collabing and not in that they are participating in big huge events either. They also have members that experience the whole anxiety thing.
So there is an oddity and I really do think the only way you can explain it is that there is some aspect at the corporate level causing this. Might not be some jackass shooting down outside collab perms because they are secretly a shitty unicorn or gachikois or some uber capitalist asshole doing it because "we won't get all the money." Could still be corporate decision because someone is being way too damn skittish about this stuff, be that a fear of damaging the brand or provoking the typical assholes. Could also be an issue that the girls don't feel secure to do so because they don't think management will truly have their backs here, when the typical suspects get pissy that the girls "aren't making the content they are paying them to make."
I think we're doing a whole heap of unverifiable speculation all up and down the spectrum that ultimately doesn't lead anywhere or clarify anything
+4
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I'm aware that social anxiety might be an issue as well, but given that they tend to pick up people with experience. I find it very unlikely that none of them had any women friends from the PL, that none of those friends would be safe to collab with. Hell, there are plenty people both well known and obscure that have probably reached out to them and trying tried befriending them or just networking in general.
Like I said, if it was just the not collabing with the boys, I could see some solid logic there and a decent bit that has nothing to do with unicorns and gachikois being assholes.
Ignoring ReGLOSS because they are fairly new and thus really small and I haven't really seen much of their content, the other branches seem to more in the way of outside collabing and not in that they are participating in big huge events either. They also have members that experience the whole anxiety thing.
So there is an oddity and I really do think the only way you can explain it is that there is some aspect at the corporate level causing this. Might not be some jackass shooting down outside collab perms because they are secretly a shitty unicorn or gachikois or some uber capitalist asshole doing it because "we won't get all the money." Could still be corporate decision because someone is being way too damn skittish about this stuff, be that a fear of damaging the brand or provoking the typical assholes. Could also be an issue that the girls don't feel secure to do so because they don't think management will truly have their backs here, when the typical suspects get pissy that the girls "aren't making the content they are paying them to make."
I think we're doing a whole heap of unverifiable speculation all up and down the spectrum that ultimately doesn't lead anywhere or clarify anything
Posts
Hopes are high that EN4 is them specifically trying to grab folks from under-served parts of the world. Early guesses based on graduated indies point at German and Brazilian Vtubers and the "innit" in the title hints at someone being British.
I believe the only other debut that'll happen this fiscal year will be DEV_IS gen 2. Cover's put out auditions for them and I think a second gen will fare better than the first without the confusion that permeated the first gen's debut affecting things. That branch seems to be them trying to find folks who can fill under-served Japanese streaming niches and then training them up to be idols, so if they can pull it off again they'll be sitting pretty.
I think ID4 might happen, but it's very unlikely. I feel like the ID market just doesn't have space to fully support 3 more HoloID girls and they'd need to compete with HoloEN for overseas eyeballs a lot more than their predecessors did. There's implications that Kobo doesn't make much more money than either of her genmates despite having over 1M more subs than theirs combined because so much of her audience is made up of young ID kids with no disposable income.
Honestly, if feels like we see more outside of the branch collabing from the Holostar members, when we just look at EN stuff. If we exclude Wrestlemania. We still have collabs from this year Hakka, Flay, Jurad, Axel and Ruze doing stuff with people outside of Cover's portfolio. The other 5 might have had collabs as well that I missed because it's pretty hard to keep track of everything going on in the English corporate vtbuer scene (I want to say Bettel has done something with other people) and there was also the Goose Goose Duck thing, on top of Wrestlemania, as just a huge collab between various vtubers that wasn't confined to one agency.
I know Cover is focused heavily on the concert stuff and that probably eats into the time and mental energy that the girls have for doing other things. That said, part of me is a bit worried that there is an intentional push by someone in upper management for Hololive EN to discourage collabs outside of the Hololive folder.
And fans will flame the shit out of anybody approaching a Holo in public first, so you have a recipe to get bubbles formed without people spreading out much. JP has this issue less because, as Doki says, there's plenty of large VTuber events to sign, but the EN side is less developed.
And Kiara will almost certainly collab with Mint at some point.
If there's any restrictions on collabs I'm not sure it's been taken too seriously at the moment.
So let me rephrase that, it sometimes feels like there is someone high enough in Hololive EN, that doesn't seem keen at all on the idea of collabs outside of Hololive. We know that the members of Hololive EN have friends outside of the agency, who are vtubers and streamers. So it's kind of odd that there are so few collabs because I kind of doubt that can all be explained away with "everyone is too busy" or "that person is too unhinged, that we worry collabing with them will hurt the brand."
Like if was they just weren't collabing with guys, I could see some logic with that. Currently, Holostars only has 10 people for the English side of things, so I could totally believe that many members of Hololive might feel that there isn't anyone in Holostars they want to collab with. Be that a case of just not meshing with them or a case where even if they do get along, they might feel that their kind of content doesn't mesh well. The gamergate bullshit hasn't been that long ago and there are a still a ton of sexist pigs on the internet, so I could also see a situation where a women has had enough bad experiences on the internet, that they just can't ever feel comfortable making content with guys online; especially, if some of those incidents involved assholes that seemed okay initially before showing their true colors. There is the approach of "not going to collab with the other gender because I want to target viewers that will get butthurt over me interacting with the other gender," I don't really agree with that approach and feel it's likely to lead to some really unpleasant situations. If a talent decides to go that route, well that's on them and can't really stop them. I don't think management should ever push for that though and I would argue intended or not, they are acting in manner that is endangering their people. One reason why I dislike the unicorn and gachikoi crowd, is that you get a fair number of shitty people that take their fandom into realm of stalking and enough of them get pretty unhinged when they feel their oshi is betraying them. (IMO the best way to deal with that crowd is to not indulge in their bullshit and to make it crystal clear that they do not have a special relationship with the talents and are in fact a stranger, that doesn't get any special rights. Also telling them to fuck off early on, might make it less likely they do something or at least make it easiest to spot the dangerous ones).
Anyway, teaser in 15m here:
Doll girl
Artist
uwu
Current guesses are 1 Brit, 1 Italian and 1 German with the last still unknown.
I've seen reasonable guesses for the Brit, Italian, and German though.
SoyaPoya has some indications for Cecilia
Yuniiho is strongly fingered for Raora
Like I said, if it was just the not collabing with the boys, I could see some solid logic there and a decent bit that has nothing to do with unicorns and gachikois being assholes.
Ignoring ReGLOSS because they are fairly new and thus really small and I haven't really seen much of their content, the other branches seem to more in the way of outside collabing and not in that they are participating in big huge events either. They also have members that experience the whole anxiety thing.
So there is an oddity and I really do think the only way you can explain it is that there is some aspect at the corporate level causing this. Might not be some jackass shooting down outside collab perms because they are secretly a shitty unicorn or gachikois or some uber capitalist asshole doing it because "we won't get all the money." Could still be corporate decision because someone is being way too damn skittish about this stuff, be that a fear of damaging the brand or provoking the typical assholes. Could also be an issue that the girls don't feel secure to do so because they don't think management will truly have their backs here, when the typical suspects get pissy that the girls "aren't making the content they are paying them to make."
She's
Nerissa literally collabed with Bao, AmeLee, Ironmouse, Reimu, and Zentreya, and that is just the ones I actively remember seeing clips of or found in like 10 mins of searching YouTube.
Edit: And they made for pretty hilarious clips because every time the host would be trying to be more seiso (I guess because Hololive somehow still has that reputation?) and then Nerissa would just go off to maximum horny mode as she does.
Wait, chasing after fugitives? Are they after Advent? Is it Bauver? :O
Steam: pazython
huh, they got some Keenbiscuit art commissioned just for their teaser videos, that's fun
Yeah, I know a few months ago, people were noting that a number of indies in Europe were graduating. So Hololive EN gen 4 was probably the deal or at least part of it. I know there were a few small agencies cropping up or getting new waves IIRC.
Guess now I get to figure out if I'll be able to catch many of their streams or if they'll end up having schedules where I just don't catch many of the streams. Though that only matters if I decide I want to watch their content. I've hit the point where I can't really keep up with all the vtubers that have caught my interest.
Nowadays Cover does everything important (3D showcases, debuts, official streams, etc) for EN at or around noon JST. They'll most likely reveal their first week's schedule during their debuts.
Cover didn't hire for streaming experience or sociability, they hired for talent and having an impressive portfolio even if that didn't involve streaming or being a VTuber. There were very few expectations around having experience being a Vtuber at the time of Myth, Hope, and Council's auditions since the EN Vtuber scene was extremely sparse and most of the girls who were Vtubers at the time of their auditions hadn't been doing it for longer than a year. Calli, Ina, Bae, and Mumei have collabed with women they were friends from before their time at Holo (Ina might not count there since Sana was also a part of Holo at the time) and Calli, Ina, Kiara, and Nerissa have all collabed with Vtubers they made friends with after joining Holo. Bae and Kronii have brought their real life friends on stream, Calli, Kiara, and Nerissa have brought their families on stream and Shiori made a visual novel with one of her Vtuber friends from before Holo.
When I say social anxiety is the main thing stopping them, look at something like this clip where Gura can barely function interacting with people in her own company. I could dig up similar things for pretty much any HoloEN girl besides Calli, Kiara, and Nerissa. There's no boogeyman at Cover that's blocking the HoloEN girls from collabing with anyone.
I think we're doing a whole heap of unverifiable speculation all up and down the spectrum that ultimately doesn't lead anywhere or clarify anything
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Putting the smol models over the in-game characters is such a good idea lmao
Right, the vtubing fandom