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Inaugural Coin Return Board of Directors Election [2025] - VOTING closed. Results soon.

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Posts

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Like the thread before it this one is moving too fast in general. For anybody who dares try and wade through it, or just so happens to catch this post:

    I would vouch for @Richy as a solid candidate. I don't know him personally but he's a voice I've enjoyed in the Canadian Politics thread. I've enjoyed that he feels more moderate and varied in his views than a lot of the other thread regulars, which I believe would be a positive trait in this role. Also on a note of general "nice guy"-ness, after I mentioned I was running low on tea since I was laid off, he reached out by PM to offer to send me some he had around. Does this count as bribery or buying my vote? Maybe! But he did announce his claim to run on a platform of corruption and bribery early in the thread, so I view this as sticking to his guns and keeping election promises~

  • xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69?xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69? Registered User regular
    Can we please list the Canadian cabal for transosrency

  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    Can we please list the Canadian cabal for transosrency

    It's usually a capuck up here.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Some general questions for the board candidates, on what have been some serious firecracker topics.

    -your feelings on generative ai, and protection of artists.
    -your feelings on the Palestinian genocide.
    -your feelings on support of minority & LGBT posters, given the PA forums history of driving such people away
    -your feelings on people playing politeness politics while antagonizing other users
    -your feelings on pizza toppings

    To be clear, this is explicitly aimed at the Board candidates here. I know these are contentious topics, I'd rather folks who aren't in the running for the board refrain from debating or answering them. (Please, things are on fire enough for the mods already)

    Fun! I'll respond even though ignoring these is probably better for votes :tongue::lol:

    Generative AI is not bad in and of itself. It's not some fundamentally immoral thing. I hate the term "AI" btw but that ship has sailed. But "AI" art is not some soulless abomination. It could be a cool tool for folks to use to express themselves and do interesting things that they couldn't do otherwise.

    Pretty much all the current big models are Bad and Unethical. Training on data without getting permission is a Bad Thing. It's really not significantly different in idea to how human artists can train and practice and research. But the scope and scale of it and then how it is then packaged as a corporate bundle for $$$$ is Bad.



    What is happening in Palestine is genocide. The Israeli government is Bad for doing this, and not just for what's happened the past half-year or so. Sending weapons to help Israel do this is Bad. My personal belief is that some folks here put the blame too much on the US and the US government and often just Dems, but I think we all agree this is a horrible situation that should not be happening.

    Jewish people around the world or such should not take the blame for this, which is not a common thing here but sometimes comments get a little too close to that for my comfort. Or, well, they did, I'll admit I have not kept up with that conversation here, I found it did not help my mental health and didn't seem to be getting anywhere.



    I don't believe that the forums have a history of driving minority and LGBT posters away in the way that I think you are insinuating, sorry. Have some left? Yes. Have other people that are not LGBT left? Yes. Have other LGBT folks stayed on the forums? Yes. My guess based on my vague recollection of your previous posts is that we won't really agree on this one, as I suspect you are going to blame like, D&D and Jeffe and such as directly driving away LGBT folks via targeted bigotry? And I also see folks that have left due to feeling pushed away from the opposite side, so I think it's not quite as black-and-white as some folks like to imply. However! Feel free to elaborate if you'd like :smile:

    But! Protecting the safety of minority posters is very important to me. It's one of the best things about PA, historically, when you compare it to other places on the Internet that are a lot worse. The forums aren't as safe as they have been in the past (I've mentioned that a few times), but they can be and they should be. I've chatted with Minor Incident and others about some of the transition stuff here that I felt wasn't inclusive enough to really help make sure we were going to be welcoming to minorities, to try and get things changed for the better (and for the most part, I think they have!).



    re: "politeness" this is another thing that I think we'll disagree on, but maybe not! I prefer a polite conversation. I don't think that you (generic "you") care more about something because you are louder and more visibly angry about it. I don't think that being polite to our fellow forumers is something we should abandon. Being nice helps others feel safe and welcome. Being loud and angry stifles conversation. Just because something Bad is happening does not give you an excuse to be rude to your fellow community members. Just because something Bad is happening and I don't seem angry enough does not mean that I don't care about it just as deeply as you do.

    That said. Using politeness as a shield to antagonize others is Not Okay. Moderators shouldn't be like, "well he said please and thank you, so that's not really worth an infraction." If you're breaking the rules, you should expect moderator action. If you're breaking the rules while typing in ALL CAPS you should expect it, if you're breaking the rules while typing "calmly" and academically you should expect it.

    Do you have any specific concerns about the new CoRe rules that you think folks will try to get around by being polite?



    I am a picky eater. Sorry not sorry. Yes, more picky than you, person who is about to chime in and say "oh I'm also picky!" So for pizza, I just do plain cheese. Also, for those of you organizing parties/get-togethers with pizza, order more cheese. You know what happens? Everyone goes up to get pizza, and they get a slice of pepperoni. Or sausage. Or whatever. And then also a slice of cheese because hey everyone likes cheese pizza. And then you know which pizza disappears first!? Cheese! And then you know how much it sucks to be the kid who only likes cheese pizza!?!?!?!?!?!?

    *cough*. Sorry. Childhood trauma coming out a bit there. :lol:

    Your response to the struggles of the queer community really rankle me. Perhaps you are not aware of the history, but I can assure you it has happened. It has been very much a user problem combined with, imo, insufficient moderation coverage to actually address the issues. D&D was banned from having a thread on it for years and I was thrilled it happened. That should say something about how bad that was. SE++ threads were intermittent at best in part because of the hostility towards the queer community. It has even come up in G&T in passing, but that is usually more transitory at least.

    This forum has always had lofty ideals towards the topic, but has often failed to live up to them. I hope we can do better in the new space. I don't think the place has ever meant it, but it has been there. And I definitely do not like seeing that dismissed as grudges against specific portions of the forum.

    I do not think the forums have a particular history of "driving away" LGBT folks, as the question implied. I understand you may disagree with that, and I accept that, we won't agree on everything.

    Presumably we do agree that the future of the forums on CoRe needs to be better than the PA forums have been in the past on a variety of issues, including this. If you do have any questions about how I would handle any specific situation in this space, feel free to ask :smile:

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    anyway, in the interest of clearing up any cobwebs, i do got a question for all the candidates:

    why, in your estimation, would any of the voters possibly view you as a piece of shit? what do you think you are contributing to this? what do you think you have no control over? how will you adjust how you interact accordingly going forward as a member of the board, literally holding people's money in your hands?

    I honestly don't think any voters would see me in such a light. Worst case they probably see me as "generically bad D&D poster" if you have bad opinions of D&D? Turns out I'm more of a CF or G&T poster than D&D, but people don't have generically bad opinions of CF or G&T, so wouldn't get any such a label from there.

    I'm probably not planning to change super much based on that. I welcome feedback from folks, privately or otherwise. Whether or not I am in a position of leadership on CoRe, if you've got a problem with me I would love to hear from you and try to do better. But I'm not really gonna change things based on imaged generically vague positions, I guess.

    I do try to and self-evaluate and get better over time, as hopefully we all do. It's tough!

    Alrighty, when I asked for an AI art ban in the G&T Discord you were pretty flippant and rude to me about it, and frankly doesn't seem like behavior anyone in leadership should be displaying. You have a snarky, condescending side to you that isn't obvious and that isn't something a leader should possess imo. I am no longer in that discord and a large part of that is because of that conversation and your contributions to it. Just so you know!

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Ok, I think this thread has generated more notifications for me today than I've had all year prior. And I'm working right now, so forgive me if I don't answer right away.

    sig.gif
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    General opinion on candidates:

    Actively want to see on the board:

    Tynic, Fishman, Amateurhour. I think all three have generally been a positive influence on the boards in basically any topic they've been involved in.

    Positive:

    Tef, Spono, Raijin, Solysp/Kayne Red Robe. I have a positive experience with all of them but don't feel as certain that temperament + experience makes them the best candidates, but they will still be on my list.

    Forum profile private, not voting for:

    Kelor, Ahava. If I can't check your profile to refresh myself then I can't consider voting for you, and I also personally think that being a board member will require as much/more scrutiny than having an open profile on the current forums.

    Would be extremely unhappy on the board:

    ElJeffe. This has been litigated quite a lot but I neither trust him with access to user information nor think he would be a positive influence on the direction of the forums.

    Neutral/no opinion:

    The rest.

    I ate an engineer
  • andrewandrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Christ, eljeffe, still with the deflection. Have some fucking humility.

    You went away for, what, 4 hours and cobbled that shit together?

    Do something good for the community that you supposedly care about. Hang the ambition up for a bit.

    If you're still interested a year from now then put your hat in the ring, but right now you're not even giving the impression that you care enough to be self reflective. You blew up the previous thread and made yourself the main character. You're clearly too petty to be given any responsibility.

    Pull out and save us all the headaches.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Some general questions for the board candidates, on what have been some serious firecracker topics.

    -your feelings on generative ai, and protection of artists.
    -your feelings on the Palestinian genocide.
    -your feelings on support of minority & LGBT posters, given the PA forums history of driving such people away
    -your feelings on people playing politeness politics while antagonizing other users
    -your feelings on pizza toppings

    To be clear, this is explicitly aimed at the Board candidates here. I know these are contentious topics, I'd rather folks who aren't in the running for the board refrain from debating or answering them. (Please, things are on fire enough for the mods already)

    Fun! I'll respond even though ignoring these is probably better for votes :tongue::lol:

    Generative AI is not bad in and of itself. It's not some fundamentally immoral thing. I hate the term "AI" btw but that ship has sailed. But "AI" art is not some soulless abomination. It could be a cool tool for folks to use to express themselves and do interesting things that they couldn't do otherwise.

    Pretty much all the current big models are Bad and Unethical. Training on data without getting permission is a Bad Thing. It's really not significantly different in idea to how human artists can train and practice and research. But the scope and scale of it and then how it is then packaged as a corporate bundle for $$$$ is Bad.



    What is happening in Palestine is genocide. The Israeli government is Bad for doing this, and not just for what's happened the past half-year or so. Sending weapons to help Israel do this is Bad. My personal belief is that some folks here put the blame too much on the US and the US government and often just Dems, but I think we all agree this is a horrible situation that should not be happening.

    Jewish people around the world or such should not take the blame for this, which is not a common thing here but sometimes comments get a little too close to that for my comfort. Or, well, they did, I'll admit I have not kept up with that conversation here, I found it did not help my mental health and didn't seem to be getting anywhere.



    I don't believe that the forums have a history of driving minority and LGBT posters away in the way that I think you are insinuating, sorry. Have some left? Yes. Have other people that are not LGBT left? Yes. Have other LGBT folks stayed on the forums? Yes. My guess based on my vague recollection of your previous posts is that we won't really agree on this one, as I suspect you are going to blame like, D&D and Jeffe and such as directly driving away LGBT folks via targeted bigotry? And I also see folks that have left due to feeling pushed away from the opposite side, so I think it's not quite as black-and-white as some folks like to imply. However! Feel free to elaborate if you'd like :smile:

    But! Protecting the safety of minority posters is very important to me. It's one of the best things about PA, historically, when you compare it to other places on the Internet that are a lot worse. The forums aren't as safe as they have been in the past (I've mentioned that a few times), but they can be and they should be. I've chatted with Minor Incident and others about some of the transition stuff here that I felt wasn't inclusive enough to really help make sure we were going to be welcoming to minorities, to try and get things changed for the better (and for the most part, I think they have!).



    re: "politeness" this is another thing that I think we'll disagree on, but maybe not! I prefer a polite conversation. I don't think that you (generic "you") care more about something because you are louder and more visibly angry about it. I don't think that being polite to our fellow forumers is something we should abandon. Being nice helps others feel safe and welcome. Being loud and angry stifles conversation. Just because something Bad is happening does not give you an excuse to be rude to your fellow community members. Just because something Bad is happening and I don't seem angry enough does not mean that I don't care about it just as deeply as you do.

    That said. Using politeness as a shield to antagonize others is Not Okay. Moderators shouldn't be like, "well he said please and thank you, so that's not really worth an infraction." If you're breaking the rules, you should expect moderator action. If you're breaking the rules while typing in ALL CAPS you should expect it, if you're breaking the rules while typing "calmly" and academically you should expect it.

    Do you have any specific concerns about the new CoRe rules that you think folks will try to get around by being polite?



    I am a picky eater. Sorry not sorry. Yes, more picky than you, person who is about to chime in and say "oh I'm also picky!" So for pizza, I just do plain cheese. Also, for those of you organizing parties/get-togethers with pizza, order more cheese. You know what happens? Everyone goes up to get pizza, and they get a slice of pepperoni. Or sausage. Or whatever. And then also a slice of cheese because hey everyone likes cheese pizza. And then you know which pizza disappears first!? Cheese! And then you know how much it sucks to be the kid who only likes cheese pizza!?!?!?!?!?!?

    *cough*. Sorry. Childhood trauma coming out a bit there. :lol:

    Your response to the struggles of the queer community really rankle me. Perhaps you are not aware of the history, but I can assure you it has happened. It has been very much a user problem combined with, imo, insufficient moderation coverage to actually address the issues. D&D was banned from having a thread on it for years and I was thrilled it happened. That should say something about how bad that was. SE++ threads were intermittent at best in part because of the hostility towards the queer community. It has even come up in G&T in passing, but that is usually more transitory at least.

    This forum has always had lofty ideals towards the topic, but has often failed to live up to them. I hope we can do better in the new space. I don't think the place has ever meant it, but it has been there. And I definitely do not like seeing that dismissed as grudges against specific portions of the forum.

    I do not think the forums have a particular history of "driving away" LGBT folks, as the question implied. I understand you may disagree with that, and I accept that, we won't agree on everything.

    Presumably we do agree that the future of the forums on CoRe needs to be better than the PA forums have been in the past on a variety of issues, including this. If you do have any questions about how I would handle any specific situation in this space, feel free to ask :smile:

    I am mostly alarmed by your dismissal of the issue as a forum beef rather than taking it at face value.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Milski wrote: »
    General opinion on candidates:

    Actively want to see on the board:

    Tynic, Fishman, Amateurhour. I think all three have generally been a positive influence on the boards in basically any topic they've been involved in.

    Positive:

    Tef, Spono, Raijin, Solysp/Kayne Red Robe. I have a positive experience with all of them but don't feel as certain that temperament + experience makes them the best candidates, but they will still be on my list.

    Forum profile private, not voting for:

    Kelor, Ahava. If I can't check your profile to refresh myself then I can't consider voting for you, and I also personally think that being a board member will require as much/more scrutiny than having an open profile on the current forums.

    Would be extremely unhappy on the board:

    ElJeffe. This has been litigated quite a lot but I neither trust him with access to user information nor think he would be a positive influence on the direction of the forums.

    Neutral/no opinion:

    The rest.

    I'd agree with much of this

    Solar on
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    [

    What are you most excited for about moving to a community lead model vs what we have had in the recent past?[/quote]

    Added batsignals as is the fashion[/quote]

    We’ve been basically rudderless for the better part of ten years.

    Allowed to exist but mostly ignored.

    I’m excited to finally be able to work to improve the community based directly on their input. The forum is a place for the forumers and there word should mean something and it will at Coin Return

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 31
    andrew wrote: »
    Christ, eljeffe, still with the deflection. Have some fucking humility.

    You went away for, what, 4 hours and cobbled that shit together?

    Do something good for the community that you supposedly care about. Hang the ambition up for a bit.

    If you're still interested a year from now then put your hat in the ring, but right now you're not even giving the impression that you care enough to be self reflective. You blew up the previous thread and made yourself the main character. You're clearly too petty to be given any responsibility.

    Pull out and save us all the headaches.

    Just vote against him good gods. We had an entire thread of this. This thread is for the elections, and it's already hard enough to keep up with the questions

    Fencingsax on
  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    -your feelings on generative ai, and protection of artists.
    -your feelings on the Palestinian genocide.
    -your feelings on support of minority & LGBT posters, given the PA forums history of driving such people away
    -your feelings on people playing politeness politics while antagonizing other users
    -your feelings on pizza toppings

    To be clear, this is explicitly aimed at the Board candidates here. I know these are contentious topics, I'd rather folks who aren't in the running for the board refrain from debating or answering them. (Please, things are on fire enough for the mods already)

    "The Zombie Penguin"

    I'm an AI researcher working on Generative AI, and I am 100% in favour of the protection of artists. I find the work of Meta and OpenAI absolutely unethical, in the way they trampled on and disregarded copyrights and the rights of content creators. For my research I created a data sharing agreement with the help of my university's research office, and I meet with the owners of the content I need for my AI, explain to them what I want and what I plan to do with it, and get their signed consent to use their content.

    I am in favour of diversity and inclusion on this board. I firmly believe diversity is a source of strength, and homogeneity and uniformity are weaknesses. I will strive to create a more welcoming, diverse and inclusive community.

    Pineapple on pizza is delicious.

    The most divisive candidate yet!

    Now Playing:
    Celeste [Switch] - She'll be wrestling with inner demons when she comes...
    Octopath Traveler - MY BLADE IS UNBENDING
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    andrew wrote: »
    Christ, eljeffe, still with the deflection. Have some fucking humility.

    You went away for, what, 4 hours and cobbled that shit together?

    Do something good for the community that you supposedly care about. Hang the ambition up for a bit.

    If you're still interested a year from now then put your hat in the ring, but right now you're not even giving the impression that you care enough to be self reflective. You blew up the previous thread and made yourself the main character. You're clearly too petty to be given any responsibility.

    Pull out and save us all the headaches.

    Just vote against him good gods. We had an entire thread of this. This thread is for the elections, and it's already hard enough to keep up with the questions

    There's voting against someone because you're like "ah maybe not them" and there's voting against someone cos you think they're an awful choice

    Making it clear which one is kinda important.

  • SolyspSolysp Previously Kayne Red Robe Registered User regular
    I should note as professional bonafides my current job is as site chairperson in regards to procedural compliance with our quality systems. So if you want someone who is experienced in reading a bunch of long winded procedural documents and making sure a bunch of different teams of people agree on their interpretation and follow them that's my whole deal.

  • RatherDashingRatherDashing Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Expendable wrote: »
    @ElJeffe
    Though if any other candidate also wants to comment on how they would address such a situation in their candidacy that's okay.

    I need some more time to think on general questions for all and specific questions to other candidates, but given what was going on yesterday this question has been festering in my mind for a bit now and I need to have it addressed. I'm going to include my previous posts on the matter for context.
    Expendable wrote: »
    I was very much under the impression that retired mod user status did not have access to Reports but merely the mod social forum where things were discussed like kids and stuff. I felt that was unnecessary to maintain and could be done outside of official forum means but nobody asked me.

    I was also under the impression that when that retired status was revoked and a retired mod was displayed as a regular user just like me that they had permissions and access that were exactly like my own.

    Finding out that not only was this not so but the access was used is quite troubling to me. I definitely feel like I was mislead and lied to deliberately. I do agree that such a deception and misuse of access should be public knowledge, triply so if said misuser of access is pursuing a position of power and authority.

    Unless there is some sort of forthright apology that details the wrongdoing and to my satisfaction demonstrates a willingness to learn and apply lessons to prevent such lapse of judgement from happening again I definitely won't be voting for that person. So thanks for finally bringing the issue to my attention as should have been done in the past, but at least it's public knowledge now.
    Expendable wrote: »

    This does not seem to address the issue I had earlier which is that you retained mod privileges while sporting a normal user icon after having a retired mod badge. And during that time you were openly presenting to us as being a normal user you participated in reports.

    I have thought about it a fair bit the past few hours and I cannot come up with any explanation that doesn't involve a knowing amount of willful deception. Why should I vote for you to have a position of authority if I can't trust you to present yourself to the community in an honest way? How can I trust that you won't try to retain or copy access to sensitive data and keep it after some period of time when you no longer rightfully have that authority?

    I've noticed when I raise concerns like this they tend to be ignored, and if specifically called out "the pace of the thread" or something similar is blamed. That's either a dramatic inattention to detail and should be disqualifying for the position you seek, or ignoring an inconvenient truth.

    You're actively soliciting my vote. Why do you deserve it? How do I know this is isn't going to happen again?

    To sum up, I do not know the circumstances that led to you moving from a Retired Mod badge that was made in MS Paint or something to a Regular User flair, but my understanding and impression of you posting among us as a Regular User, especially given that you had made comments about not wanting to be involved in moderation any longer, was that you had the same access and privileges afforded to me or any other Regular User. To later find out that while you were showing the same level that I do you actually still had elevated permissions and used those permissions to read and comment on Reports, whether you were the one being reported or not, strikes me as a deliberate deception and breach of trust. And now you're asking for my vote to be in a position of trust and authority and access to far more sensitive data.

    To me this looks like you put your personal desires for access above the good of the community, like you take the required trust of such a position for granted or uncharitably only see it as a tool to use for the betterment of yourself. What do you say to Members like me who have never really had a meaningful interaction with you but now have this information? Plus the questions in my previous posts.

    (Above spoilered for long.)

    For anyone who hasn't been following along, the basic story is this:

    Moderators, in the vast majority of cases, were never stripped of their powers if they decided to step down. Moderators who were demodded because they were no longer in good standing were an exception, as were mods who specifically asked to have powers removed, generally for personal reasons. As I was neither in poor standing nor specifically requested to have my powers removed, I retained them.

    It was also customary for ex-mods (which, until recently, wasn't much of a concept and definitely not a formally defined thing) to hang around the mod forum, both out of cameraderie with other mods, with whom they'd probably formed friendships, and just to chime in on various issues when a discussion arose. It was generally considered that having more voices present in a conversation was better than fewer, and so this was never an issue. Conversations sometimes took place in the main mod forum, and they sometimes took place in the special reports forum - as with any users, mods are capable of running off-topic, and it wasn't unheard for a report-generated thread to run with 40 replies that had increasingly little to do with the report or the reported user.

    I was part of this system, and behaved as "retired" mods historically had since the dawn of the forums, with the complete knowledge and explicit endorsement of the admins at the time. As an ex-mod, I respected that mine was strictly an advisory role, and tried to respect this. I tried not to question any decisions made by existing mods, even if I might disagree with them, and I generally saw my role as to say my piece if I thought I had some historical knowledge or insight that others might now (especially as the crop of active D&D mods, who I very much respected, were all new).

    Some people - principally in SE, a place I never really hung out - later complained that my still having a mod badge beneath my name was confusing, and it should be removed. Hahn, then admin, experimented with various things (such as just removing my badge) before ultimately settling on a new "Retired Mod" status. Currently, though I'm a retired mod, with the privileges of such, I don't have the badge, and honestly this thing has been so convoluted that I honestly don't remember the ins and outs of my avatar's whirlwind journey. Some people feel this was a concerted effort at subterfuge, thought I don't think this was Hahn's intention, and it certainly wasn't mine. I have never pretended not to have access to the mod forum, or - until recently - the reports forum. (More on that later.)

    Certain mods, who can come forward if they wish, but I'm not going to name names, took issue at what they saw as "misconduct." This included responding to threads in the reports forum that were indirectly about me. This is something I tried to avoid, and when I did participate it was generally because of a larger issue that was being discussed. (Other current mods have since mentioned they have done the same.) The particular example that was circulated in the locked thread was related to a report of someone other than me, during which another mod mentioned me in the context of not understanding my intentions as regards some semi-related post I had made; I posted in there to respond to what I saw as more or less a question directed at me, and tried to tie it into the larger discussion.

    Another issue brought up was that sometimes my contributions might rise to a level of "advocacy" for certain rules, positions, or groups. That is a fair complaint. I care about this place, I care about its people, I have opinions, and sometimes I apparently let these opinions move a bit beyond simple historical observation. I take responsibility for this, and I apologize. I do wish someone had brought this to my attention, because I would have been happy to course-correct. What's past is past, though, and here we are.

    I feel this whole situation largely arose from a bunch of people largely trying to do their best for the community while part of a cobbled-together, wildly imperfect system. Imperfect people in an imperfect system will make imperfect choices. I like to think that every last person in this election is willing to admit that they will also wind up making imperfect decisions if they're elected. As long as they are receptive to feedback, willing to self-reflect, and pledge to do better, I have no problem with that. It's the best any of us can do. I think that going into CoRe with a very specific set of rules, roles, and expectations will be invaluable, and will prevent this sort of thing happening in the future.

    And that's my piece. If you want to read more about it, there are hundreds of pages of what can charitably be called "discussion" in the locked thread, and may God have mercy on your soul. I will not be fielding any additional questions on this issue, as I don't think there's much more for me to say that has not been said a dozen times in a dozen ways. If you find any of this behavior disqualifying, I invite you to vote your conscience. If you find this explanation satisfactory, cool, I think I can help make CoRe a great place for everyone.

    Hopefully this doesn't seem like too much of a direct follow up to the other thread; it is genuinely not intended to be. But a genuine question regarding your plans if elected:

    Do you think retired mods should have access mod forums and reports in an advisory role on CoRe?

    Any other candidates can feel free to weigh in on how they'd rule this one.

    RatherDashing on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Question for everyone, there's been an effort over the last year or two to basically ban posting of Twitter embeds on the forums. What are your thoughts on this, are you for or against it? Please explain your reasoning.
    [/quote]

    Twitter is kind of an abomination these days. I think with the rise of Bluesky, there are increasingly few reasons to stick around on the Nazi platform. On the one hand, there are still a handful of voices on there who say relevant things. On the other hand, I think a community premised on progressive values and modeling what we think of as exemplary behavior has an ethical responsibility that likely precludes engaging with a place like Twitter. I won't say I'm hard in the paint in favor of a ban, but I strongly lean that way.

    Would you say I had a plethora of pinatas?

    Legos are cool, MOCs are cool, check me out on Rebrickable!
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Oh, checking the avatars in the profiles, one of the names in the list I DO know - I have had the chance to interact with @Fencingsax in several threads, like the RPG games one, and I can vouch for him as a solid dude willing to listen to people and generally trying to get where people come from.

    Steam ID: Right here.
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Some people - principally in SE, a place I never really hung out - later complained that my still having a mod badge beneath my name was confusing, and it should be removed. Hahn, then admin, experimented with various things (such as just removing my badge) before ultimately settling on a new "Retired Mod" status. Currently, though I'm a retired mod, with the privileges of such, I don't have the badge, and honestly this thing has been so convoluted that I honestly don't remember the ins and outs of my avatar's whirlwind journey. Some people feel this was a concerted effort at subterfuge, thought I don't think this was Hahn's intention, and it certainly wasn't mine. I have never pretended not to have access to the mod forum, or - until recently - the reports forum. (More on that later.)

    The continued suggestion that people just had issue with your shiny bit a flare and not the fact that you had access to mod privileges is increasingly frustrating me.

    I for one didn't give a flying rip about the badge; you honestly could have kept it for all I cared: people were just told it was the reason you were still able to get into the mod areas and I was genuinely surprised to learn that you retained those privileges despite visibly having the "Retired Mod" status revoked and being reduced to a normal "User," just like me and the other 2000 citizens that inhabit this forum.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • YellowhammerYellowhammer Registered User regular
    For my top choices, I like @Raijin Quickfoot because he's an ordinary kind of guy with an extraordinary desire to make the world better, @amateurhour because he's always looks to engage in good faith and is a kind, thoughtful guy. I think @Fencingsax has always been remarkable fair and kind any interaction I've had with them. The rest are good as well, these are just the standouts in my mind.

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    I feel like there’s really just the one drama going on, it’s just been going on for years and years

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    For life in general it is definitely the former.

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    i have a strong opinion :)

    sig.gif
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Dabble wrote: »
    I feel obligated to inform everyone that Kime is an avid fan of Heroes of the Storm. Which may be indicitave of a serious sickness.


    Ok serious question for any and all candidates.

    In a hypothetical scenario of a mod that ends up not meshing with the new style, whether that ends with them being overly harsh, overly lax, showing favoritism or anything like that. This is brought to the board by several individuals, but not a crushing wave of reports.

    How is this is handled?

    I, too, am a member of the Heroes of the Storm is the best MOBA and it's not even close fight me you heathens Club.

    1v1 Murky vs Murky, winner takes the losers votes!

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    localhjay wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    anyway, in the interest of clearing up any cobwebs, i do got a question for all the candidates:

    why, in your estimation, would any of the voters possibly view you as a piece of shit? what do you think you are contributing to this? what do you think you have no control over? how will you adjust how you interact accordingly going forward as a member of the board, literally holding people's money in your hands?

    I honestly don't think any voters would see me in such a light. Worst case they probably see me as "generically bad D&D poster" if you have bad opinions of D&D? Turns out I'm more of a CF or G&T poster than D&D, but people don't have generically bad opinions of CF or G&T, so wouldn't get any such a label from there.

    I'm probably not planning to change super much based on that. I welcome feedback from folks, privately or otherwise. Whether or not I am in a position of leadership on CoRe, if you've got a problem with me I would love to hear from you and try to do better. But I'm not really gonna change things based on imaged generically vague positions, I guess.

    I do try to and self-evaluate and get better over time, as hopefully we all do. It's tough!

    Alrighty, when I asked for an AI art ban in the G&T Discord you were pretty flippant and rude to me about it, and frankly doesn't seem like behavior anyone in leadership should be displaying. You have a snarky, condescending side to you that isn't obvious and that isn't something a leader should possess imo. I am no longer in that discord and a large part of that is because of that conversation and your contributions to it. Just so you know!

    I very specifically recall that, in part because of how suddenly extreme your reaction was to me. It surprised me!

    I went back to doublecheck the "conversation" (it was very short). It was pretty easy to find, you used a rather.... unique insult to me.

    Here's the entirety of my one post on the subject. There was nothing else before and after that I said about AI art in this conversation, and HJay left right after. If folks do find this to be too flippant and too rude and too condescending, then that's OK. Not everyone will agree with everyone else's posting styles, and maybe that's just a bridge too far and you can't handle voting for me. That's life.

    But for the record, I thought I was being pretty neutral...

    So, context: you said, rather aggressively, that all AI art should be banned on the server. I responded:
    The value of AI and such is a whole big thing that isn't entirely settled among forumers and such. You don't have to like everything that's posted here lest it be banned :smile:

    I'm sorry that you took this as me condescending to you, it wasn't intentional. But I do just want to be clear to other posters on what you're referring too, because I hope most won't agree this was way past the line or anything?

    Sorry yeah, your tone here is just screaming "this is nonsense" it doesn't feel genuine at all. Maybe this is simply a vibes based thing but that response is terrible and not one I wanna see from potential leadership. I was not requesting a ban just because I disliked it, I wanted to avoid difficult conversations around AI in a casual discord setting. Instead you made it about my preferences. The DnD threads on AI were... A spectacle to say the least. Personally your whole attitude towards AI alone makes you a shaky candidate at best.

  • xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69?xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69? Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    Hopefully the board is a mixture of personalities, interests, and all that. We have a mixture of lurkers and hyperactive posters, folks who frequent a few threads and those who are prolific across the site. It wouldnt be ideal for everyone running to be hyperaware with drama!

    The most important job is just getting us to the 2nd election intact, the last year has shown that dysfunctional as the place can be, the wheels generally stay on despite frustrations. You dont have to solve everything year one for everyone!

    Its great to be running!

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    @tynic @Tef @Kelor @spono @DrZiplock

    Y'all get my vote for leadership. Good luck!

    A quick word before I scurry back into the shadows: Whatever weird beef people have with Tef, I want to tell you right now that he is absolutely the best person that you don't deserve to have for this job. Along with the other four candidates I just listed, Tef has a heart the size of the outside world, and the magnanimity to match. Not one single fucking time on these here boards has that man every abused his station or overstepped his bounds. He's worked tirelessly through tragedy and terror to build a bridge from this place to the next, prepared to tenderly shepherd every one of us miscreants across it as the old world collapses around our ears. All the good things he's done both before and during this transition period have come from the deepest chambers of his heart, and anyone who would suspect otherwise of his intentions or moral fortitude is probably a shitty judge of character. Among the tens of thousands of active and inactive posters who've called this place home over the past two decades+, he's been one of the few who's been consistently kind and beneficent the whole time (with that trademark Aussie charm to back it up!). I don't know if you can do better when it comes to a potential candidate for the Board of Governors, but you can sure as shit do a lot worse. A lot a lot worse.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    @Disco11 You and me both, brother.

    sig.gif
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    @tynic I will vote for you, because you deserve this (derogatory)

    ( ❤️ )

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Just an FYI concerning Twitter (and YouTube) embeds, we have preferences for each of them in CoRe allowing you to either hide the embeds behind a toggle, or to disable them entirely and just show URLs. For technical reasons, Twitter embeds will still load their content before the toggle is clicked, so if you want zero involvement with Twitter you must disable embedding entirely.

    I don't feel strongly whether Twitter usage should be banned on the forums or not, just wanted to establish those capabilities.

  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    Right now the internet is awash with those awful studio ghibli ripoff AI images so I'd really appreciate the forums, old or new, being a space free of that kinda nonsense. If you wanna have a serious business let's argue AI thread that's fine I just don't wanna see shitty AI memes or people making themselves into Funko pops in casual discussion spaces

    Maybe that's just me

  • MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Expendable wrote: »
    @ElJeffe
    Though if any other candidate also wants to comment on how they would address such a situation in their candidacy that's okay.

    I need some more time to think on general questions for all and specific questions to other candidates, but given what was going on yesterday this question has been festering in my mind for a bit now and I need to have it addressed. I'm going to include my previous posts on the matter for context.
    Expendable wrote: »
    I was very much under the impression that retired mod user status did not have access to Reports but merely the mod social forum where things were discussed like kids and stuff. I felt that was unnecessary to maintain and could be done outside of official forum means but nobody asked me.

    I was also under the impression that when that retired status was revoked and a retired mod was displayed as a regular user just like me that they had permissions and access that were exactly like my own.

    Finding out that not only was this not so but the access was used is quite troubling to me. I definitely feel like I was mislead and lied to deliberately. I do agree that such a deception and misuse of access should be public knowledge, triply so if said misuser of access is pursuing a position of power and authority.

    Unless there is some sort of forthright apology that details the wrongdoing and to my satisfaction demonstrates a willingness to learn and apply lessons to prevent such lapse of judgement from happening again I definitely won't be voting for that person. So thanks for finally bringing the issue to my attention as should have been done in the past, but at least it's public knowledge now.
    Expendable wrote: »

    This does not seem to address the issue I had earlier which is that you retained mod privileges while sporting a normal user icon after having a retired mod badge. And during that time you were openly presenting to us as being a normal user you participated in reports.

    I have thought about it a fair bit the past few hours and I cannot come up with any explanation that doesn't involve a knowing amount of willful deception. Why should I vote for you to have a position of authority if I can't trust you to present yourself to the community in an honest way? How can I trust that you won't try to retain or copy access to sensitive data and keep it after some period of time when you no longer rightfully have that authority?

    I've noticed when I raise concerns like this they tend to be ignored, and if specifically called out "the pace of the thread" or something similar is blamed. That's either a dramatic inattention to detail and should be disqualifying for the position you seek, or ignoring an inconvenient truth.

    You're actively soliciting my vote. Why do you deserve it? How do I know this is isn't going to happen again?

    To sum up, I do not know the circumstances that led to you moving from a Retired Mod badge that was made in MS Paint or something to a Regular User flair, but my understanding and impression of you posting among us as a Regular User, especially given that you had made comments about not wanting to be involved in moderation any longer, was that you had the same access and privileges afforded to me or any other Regular User. To later find out that while you were showing the same level that I do you actually still had elevated permissions and used those permissions to read and comment on Reports, whether you were the one being reported or not, strikes me as a deliberate deception and breach of trust. And now you're asking for my vote to be in a position of trust and authority and access to far more sensitive data.

    To me this looks like you put your personal desires for access above the good of the community, like you take the required trust of such a position for granted or uncharitably only see it as a tool to use for the betterment of yourself. What do you say to Members like me who have never really had a meaningful interaction with you but now have this information? Plus the questions in my previous posts.


    (Above spoilered for long.)

    For anyone who hasn't been following along, the basic story is this:

    Moderators, in the vast majority of cases, were never stripped of their powers if they decided to step down. Moderators who were demodded because they were no longer in good standing were an exception, as were mods who specifically asked to have powers removed, generally for personal reasons. As I was neither in poor standing nor specifically requested to have my powers removed, I retained them.

    It was also customary for ex-mods (which, until recently, wasn't much of a concept and definitely not a formally defined thing) to hang around the mod forum, both out of cameraderie with other mods, with whom they'd probably formed friendships, and just to chime in on various issues when a discussion arose. It was generally considered that having more voices present in a conversation was better than fewer, and so this was never an issue. Conversations sometimes took place in the main mod forum, and they sometimes took place in the special reports forum - as with any users, mods are capable of running off-topic, and it wasn't unheard for a report-generated thread to run with 40 replies that had increasingly little to do with the report or the reported user.

    I was part of this system, and behaved as "retired" mods historically had since the dawn of the forums, with the complete knowledge and explicit endorsement of the admins at the time. As an ex-mod, I respected that mine was strictly an advisory role, and tried to respect this. I tried not to question any decisions made by existing mods, even if I might disagree with them, and I generally saw my role as to say my piece if I thought I had some historical knowledge or insight that others might now (especially as the crop of active D&D mods, who I very much respected, were all new).

    Some people - principally in SE, a place I never really hung out - later complained that my still having a mod badge beneath my name was confusing, and it should be removed. Hahn, then admin, experimented with various things (such as just removing my badge) before ultimately settling on a new "Retired Mod" status. Currently, though I'm a retired mod, with the privileges of such, I don't have the badge, and honestly this thing has been so convoluted that I honestly don't remember the ins and outs of my avatar's whirlwind journey. Some people feel this was a concerted effort at subterfuge, thought I don't think this was Hahn's intention, and it certainly wasn't mine. I have never pretended not to have access to the mod forum, or - until recently - the reports forum. (More on that later.)

    Certain mods, who can come forward if they wish, but I'm not going to name names, took issue at what they saw as "misconduct." This included responding to threads in the reports forum that were indirectly about me. This is something I tried to avoid, and when I did participate it was generally because of a larger issue that was being discussed. (Other current mods have since mentioned they have done the same.) The particular example that was circulated in the locked thread was related to a report of someone other than me, during which another mod mentioned me in the context of not understanding my intentions as regards some semi-related post I had made; I posted in there to respond to what I saw as more or less a question directed at me, and tried to tie it into the larger discussion.

    Another issue brought up was that sometimes my contributions might rise to a level of "advocacy" for certain rules, positions, or groups. That is a fair complaint. I care about this place, I care about its people, I have opinions, and sometimes I apparently let these opinions move a bit beyond simple historical observation. I take responsibility for this, and I apologize. I do wish someone had brought this to my attention, because I would have been happy to course-correct. What's past is past, though, and here we are.

    I feel this whole situation largely arose from a bunch of people largely trying to do their best for the community while part of a cobbled-together, wildly imperfect system. Imperfect people in an imperfect system will make imperfect choices. I like to think that every last person in this election is willing to admit that they will also wind up making imperfect decisions if they're elected. As long as they are receptive to feedback, willing to self-reflect, and pledge to do better, I have no problem with that. It's the best any of us can do. I think that going into CoRe with a very specific set of rules, roles, and expectations will be invaluable, and will prevent this sort of thing happening in the future.

    And that's my piece. If you want to read more about it, there are hundreds of pages of what can charitably be called "discussion" in the locked thread, and may God have mercy on your soul. I will not be fielding any additional questions on this issue, as I don't think there's much more for me to say that has not been said a dozen times in a dozen ways. If you find any of this behavior disqualifying, I invite you to vote your conscience. If you find this explanation satisfactory, cool, I think I can help make CoRe a great place for everyone.

    The issue isn't just with advocating for certain groups it was about you commenting on reports about you.

  • andrewandrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    andrew wrote: »
    Christ, eljeffe, still with the deflection. Have some fucking humility.

    You went away for, what, 4 hours and cobbled that shit together?

    Do something good for the community that you supposedly care about. Hang the ambition up for a bit.

    If you're still interested a year from now then put your hat in the ring, but right now you're not even giving the impression that you care enough to be self reflective. You blew up the previous thread and made yourself the main character. You're clearly too petty to be given any responsibility.

    Pull out and save us all the headaches.

    Just vote against him good gods. We had an entire thread of this. This thread is for the elections, and it's already hard enough to keep up with the questions

    And I'm trying to get across what a poor character jeffe is for the position he's put himself up for. I'm not trying to start beef, or part of any clique with a grudge. I've been here 23 years and am as milquetoast as they come. I lurk. I read threads. Sometimes I post something if I feel strongly, or think I have something to say, or am frustrated with something and have no other outlet for.

    So when I load the voting thread up and read Jeffe's name as part of a potential list of board members despite everything that has happened in very recent history then I felt the need to say something. And that should say something by itself. I think I average a post a week but I've posted more than that in this thread just because of how outraged I am by it.

    This is a thread for questions for potential board members. He ignored my question of why he was putting himself up for the position despite everything that he's done when given a position of authority so I asked again. I thought it was a good example of what someone on the board would do when faced with unhappy board members and an inflammatory environment. Turns out his answer was "make flippant remarks and be avoidant"

    So I'll keep this on topic and I'll ask again, if you'd like.

    Hey jeffe, why not do as you said and wait until the next election period? Why, when everyone is already stressed out, are you pouring petrol on the fire and putting yourself up for this? What makes you think you're singularly qualified?

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Work is crazy, will work on some responses this evening.

    Starting to realize I have zero knowledge of like 75% of the drama going on the boards. Wondering if that's a positive or a negative...

    @Disco11 You and me both, brother.

    I am getting the picture that there are multiple (?) discord servers set up where people go to rehash their grievances instead of letting things be settled on the forum and moving on.

  • Sir FabulousSir Fabulous Malevolent Squid God Registered User regular
    Hi everyone,

    Just popping in to say I'm starting up a spreadsheet with each candidate's answers to specific topics.
    My aim is to try to have responses to similar questions put in the same place, as well as a little bit of summarizing in case people want a quick refresh instead of reading lengthy forum posts.

    My goal is to be as unbiased as possible, although I understand that a truly unbiased summary is not possible.
    That said I will not exclude any candidate from the summary, and I will strive to use their own words as much as possible (while still attempting to summarize).

    Anyway, if people think this will be a useful resource, I would like to go ahead with this.
    If not, I won't continue, since I anticipate this will absolutely eat up a lot of my free time.

    pickup-sig.php?name=Orthanc

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    I think “everyone” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, if I may say

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    One more funny thing about all this to me:

    There is a very real chance that the Board could end up having a majority of AUS/NZ people leading it. We've got tynic, Tef, Kelor, Fishman, ahava, and whoever else currently (or formerly) living/from that area, running for election.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah I do have to ask, what is el jeffe bringing to the table that's worth the animosity that so many people have

  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    One more funny thing about all this to me:

    There is a very real chance that the Board could end up having a majority of AUS/NZ people leading it. We've got tynic, Tef, Kelor, Fishman, ahava, and whoever else currently (or formerly) living/from that area, running for election.

    is tynic in Oceania? why did I think they were in the UK?

This discussion has been closed.